Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?

[DaivRules]

12 minutes ago, ZermenoBoy said:

I dont really want to invest time even if its one minute replying to people who are irrelevant (dont matter) to me. My opinion obviously triggered something in you.

 

And yet you took the time to quote and reply to me. 

[B1rvine]

13 hours ago, ZermenoBoy said:

Those were my opinions.

 

On 10/15/2020 at 4:12 PM, ZermenoBoy said:

Here are some facts about the situation:

 

So were you stating facts or opinions? You originally mentioned some largely incorrect factual information on the matter. An opinion is a personal viewpoint or personal belief about something or some stance. A fact is something that can be proven true. 

 

So here are some facts for you :

 

We do focus on "REAL cheaters." The majority of reports we get, I'd say 80 - 90% are about the malicious category. Most of them don't dispute. I'd guestimate 1 - 2% of the overall flagged users actually dispute. Most of our time is spent elsewhere, but being that people do report these users, yes, people obviously care.

 

While some of these players affected by modders won't change their leaderboard position in general, some do benefit by getting near the top of the BO2 "Fastest Achievers" lists, which is absolutely not fair for those who actually deserve it. This conversation isn't so much about Big Leagues specifically, but BO2 overall, since entire lists can be autopopped within seconds.

 

Of the games you've listed, only two have trophies that can be affected by modders at the moment. GTA V and BO2. We generally don't flag for GTA V. A lot of people may wonder what the difference is, so I'll re-review it for everyone. BO2 has methods of protection against hacks: You can join private lobbies and you can erase your trophies. In GTA V, completely private play isn't really possible, and your progress is saved server side, largely preventing anything from being undone.  Furthermore, of the hacks possible, BO2's mods essentially autopop everything for you instantly, whereas GTA V you still need to "earn" the trophy. So there's differences in how 'fair' things are. Is this perfect right now? Certainly not, and while I want a whitelist, having a three strike policy makes it not so bad for anyone affected. 

 

My three cents (again) on creation of a whitelist : 

 

Have a whitelist to protect an account. Whitelist should cover : A few early unencrypted games. Games with hacked lobbies. Certain occurrences like the leap year glitch. "Possibly" really tough cases. Make everything else one strike for LB removal, depending on various general updates, polices, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by B1rvine

[I_Am_Yuta_1999]

On 2020/10/27 at 4:31 AM, B1rvine said:

So were you stating facts or opinions? You originally mentioned some largely incorrect factual information on the matter. An opinion is a personal viewpoint or personal belief about something or some stance. A fact is something that can be proven true. 

 

So here are some facts for you :

 

We do focus on "REAL cheaters." The majority of reports we get, I'd say 80 - 90% are about the malicious category. Most of them don't dispute. I'd guestimate 1 - 2% of the overall flagged users actually dispute. Most of our time is spent elsewhere, but being that people do report these users, yes, people obviously care.

 

While some of these players affected by modders won't change their leaderboard position in general, some do benefit by getting near the top of the BO2 "Fastest Achievers" lists, which is absolutely not fair for those who actually deserve it. This conversation isn't so much about Big Leagues specifically, but BO2 overall, since entire lists can be autopopped within seconds.

 

Of the games you've listed, only two have trophies that can be affected by modders at the moment. GTA V and BO2. We generally don't flag for GTA V. A lot of people may wonder what the difference is, so I'll re-review it for everyone. BO2 has methods of protection against hacks: You can join private lobbies and you can erase your trophies. In GTA V, completely private play isn't really possible, and your progress is saved server side, largely preventing anything from being undone.  Furthermore, of the hacks possible, BO2's mods essentially autopop everything for you instantly, whereas GTA V you still need to "earn" the trophy. So there's differences in how 'fair' things are. Is this perfect right now? Certainly not, and while I want a whitelist, having a three strike policy makes it not so bad for anyone affected. 

 

My three cents (again) on creation of a whitelist : 

 

Have a whitelist to protect an account. Whitelist should cover : A few early unencrypted games. Games with hacked lobbies. Certain occurrences like the leap year glitch. "Possibly" really tough cases. Make everything else one strike for LB removal, depending on various general updates, polices, etc.

 

I'm sorry to ask, but so will there be whitelist implemented into psnprofiles later in the future?

[OpenScars]

All for Whitelisting.
Can we at-least have page dedicated to games that run the risk of having trophies pop up or glitch, anything that could potentially get you flagged.

Before going through the Dispute page on here, I had NO idea that other people could even pop your trophies.... an as an avid trophy hunter, it worried me a bit.

[visvoer18]

it would give hackers a free pass  just for that alone I am against it

 

I might be o with it  if you still need to hide the game you just dont get a leaderboard flag for it but even then its a free pass for hackers since there are no consequences

 

edit: I noticed I accidently bumped an old thread sorry it wasnt on purpose

Edited June 8, 2021 by visvoer18

[patrizio1811]

On 27/10/2020 at 9:31 AM, B1rvine said:

We generally don't flag for GTA V. A lot of people may wonder what the difference is, so I'll re-review it for everyone. BO2 has methods of protection against hacks: You can join private lobbies and you can erase your trophies. In GTA V, completely private play isn't really possible, and your progress is saved server side, largely preventing anything from being undone.  Furthermore, of the hacks possible, BO2's mods essentially autopop everything for you instantly, whereas GTA V you still need to "earn" the trophy. So there's differences in how 'fair' things are.

 

 

This it is necessary precisely because you set rules and then do as you please. you say that you do not put the flag on gtav, that the difference between gtav and BO2 are that on BO2 essentially autopop everything for you instantly, whereas GTA V you still need to "earn" the trophy.

 

But YOU @B1rvine YOU left me the flag for run like the Wind even if I legitimately got it, YOU left me a flag only because a modder Just put a bounty on me, he DOES NOT unlock my trohpy, as you have already verified i EARNED that Trophy fulfilling the requirements, but YOU B1RVINE left a flag on me Anyway Just for the notification of the bounty. YOU @B1rvine  left a flag on me

for these reasons written by yourself:

 

"Even if you, yourself, did not request or seek out modders help, the fact remains CFW/hacks/mods were "involved" and aided you to earn an trophy otherwise impossible. The rules aren't going to specifically spell out every intricate detail. You benefitted from hacks, even if the trophy requirements were fulfilled.

 

The reason a three strike policy exists is for games like this. I'd rather an official whitelist, for the record. But we try to be as fair as possible, understanding hackers can do things to you, but you're too close to the top of the leaderboard. It's all about 'balancing'."

 

what's fair about this huh? What? You left a flag on me for for reasons opposite to those for which you say do not leave the flag. this Is Fair? Also i finished GTA v in almost 3 months and i only have 41 platinums i was number 9333 in my country leaderboards. I do not affect any leaderbords but YOU B1RVINE left a flag on me for something nosense

Edited July 3, 2021 by patrizio1811

[Otonio_Bruno]

46 minutes ago, patrizio1811 said:

 

This it is necessary precisely because you set rules and then do as you please. you say that you do not put the flag on gtav, that the difference between gtav and BO2 are that on BO2 essentially autopop everything for you instantly, whereas GTA V you still need to "earn" the trophy.

 

But YOU @B1rvine YOU left me the flag for run like the Wind even if I legitimately got it, YOU left me a flag only because a modder Just put a bounty on me, he DOES NOT unlock my trohpy, as you have already verified i EARNED that Trophy fulfilling the requirements, but YOU B1RVINE left a flag on me Anyway Just for the notification of the bounty. YOU @B1rvine  left a flag on me

for these reasons written by yourself:

 

"Even if you, yourself, did not request or seek out modders help, the fact remains CFW/hacks/mods were "involved" and aided you to earn an trophy otherwise impossible. The rules aren't going to specifically spell out every intricate detail. You benefitted from hacks, even if the trophy requirements were fulfilled.

 

The reason a three strike policy exists is for games like this. I'd rather an official whitelist, for the record. But we try to be as fair as possible, understanding hackers can do things to you, but you're too close to the top of the leaderboard. It's all about 'balancing'."

 

what's fair about this huh? What? You left a flag on me for for reasons opposite to those for which you say do not leave the flag. this Is Fair? Also i finished GTA v in almost 3 months and i only have 41 platinums i was number 9333 in my country leaderboards. I do not affect any leaderbords but YOU B1RVINE left a flag on me for something nosense

 

Actually it has been established on your dispute that you had knowledge that RLtW was only obtainable through help of modders and that you actively told people to search for them to unlock the trophy, which has been a no-go ever since RLtW became unobtainable, even before CRT decided to not flag people that got affected by it. That's probably the reason why your flag stood.

[patrizio1811]

31 minutes ago, Otonio_Bruno said:

 

Actually it has been established on your dispute that you had knowledge that RLtW was only obtainable through help of modders and that you actively told people to search for them to unlock the trophy, which has been a no-go ever since RLtW became unobtainable, even before CRT decided to not flag people that got affected by it. That's probably the reason why your flag stood.

evidently you have not read correctly, it is b1rvine himself who wrote that I did not voluntarily seek a modder.

 

"Even if you, yourself, did not request or seek out modders help, the fact remains CFW/hacks/mods were "involved" and aided you to earn an trophy otherwise impossible. The rules aren't going to specifically spell out every intricate detail. You benefitted from hacks, even if the trophy requirements were fulfilled"

 

If you read in the discussion in that forum there was also a moderator of this site who at the end of the discussion gave me right on what I said, and the reasons for my flag have nothing to do with what I wrote in the forum as you can read from the same words written by b1rvine himselfe

Edited July 3, 2021 by patrizio1811
sorry if someone is offended

[B1rvine]

@patrizio1811 Your dispute is already settled.
 

You were fully aware of the state of GTA V on PS3 and knew hackers were required to earn the trophy.
 

Any veteran trophy hunter who tries to cash in on the PS3 GTA V end of life event will be flagged. I have no sympathy for those who seek to take advantage of the situation and claim ignorance. 
 

Edit: The idea I’ve always conveyed is we should be protecting people who are innocent, but keeping things as fair as possible for all involved. 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by B1rvine

[DaivRules]

1 hour ago, patrizio1811 said:

If you read in the discussion in that forum there was also a moderator of this site who at the end of the discussion gave me right on what I said, and the reasons for my flag have nothing to do with what I wrote in the forum as you can read from the same words written by b1rvine himselfe

If you’re referring to this:

 

Then no. You’re completely twisting the conversation and that’s not how it went. You were told in perfect clarity that the site WILL flag people who follow what you were instructing them to do. 
 

[patrizio1811]

@B1rvine you yourself written me this

 

Even if you, yourself, did not request or seek out modders help, the fact remains CFW/hacks/mods were "involved" and aided you to earn an trophy otherwise impossible. The rules aren't going to specifically spell out every intricate detail. You benefitted from hacks, even if the trophy requirements were fulfilled"

 

you yourself say that I have not looked for any modder, so the flag you gave me has no reason to exist. I perfectly agree with you with those who are voluntarily looking for a modder, but as you yourself said it is not my case.

what you have done to me unfairly makes the creation of a Whitelist millions of times more necessary so that the rules you or anyone else make are not subject to personal interpretation by you or anyone else having to decide about it, just because you you say that you do not put the flag for reasons but then as in my case you put the flag exactly for the opposite reasons, and I wish this would never happen to anyone again just because I love this site.

 

 

 

@DaivRules

4 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

If you’re referring to this:

 

Then no. You’re completely twisting the conversation and that’s not how it went. You were told in perfect clarity that the site WILL flag people who follow what you were instructing them to do. 
 

 

I said, at the end of the conversation the moderator agree with what i wrote. what you are refering to Is the 2nd message of the conversation between me and the moderator

Edited July 3, 2021 by patrizio1811

[Stevieboy]

1 hour ago, patrizio1811 said:

I said, at the end of the conversation the moderator agree with what i wrote. what you are refering to Is the 2nd message of the conversation between me and the moderator

 

I agreed with you that the trophy should be whitelisted, but I was only stating my opinion on the matter. I also stated it wasn't my decision as to whether the trophy should be flagged or not, and that it's the decision of the CRT members that determines these things. My opinion on the matter has no bearing whatsoever on it, as I'm only a forum moderator and not a member of the CRT. I made that quite clear.

[patrizio1811]

2 hours ago, Stevieboy said:

 

I agreed with you that the trophy should be whitelisted, but I was only stating my opinion on the matter. I also stated it wasn't my decision as to whether the trophy should be flagged or not, and that it's the decision of the CRT members that determines these things. My opinion on the matter has no bearing whatsoever on it, as I'm only a forum moderator and not a member of the CRT. I made that quite clear.

 

sure, I remember very well, I know that unfortunately you have no way to decide about potential flags, I am sure that if you were in the CRT you would do a great job as well as you do as a moderator. as I told you at the end of our conversation you have all my respect on what you say, what you do and your opinions

[hBLOXs]

5 hours ago, patrizio1811 said:

you yourself say that I have not looked for any modder, so the flag you gave me has no reason to exist.

No. How could he have said that? “Even if” means “in the (unlikely) case of... you not having actively sought ...”. Stop twisting words.

 

You do realize that a whitelist also means that you’re off the leaderboards for GTAV anyway, right?

You’re kind of just fighting to achieve that the site would implement something generally which you are now “forced” to do individually.

[patrizio1811]

6 hours ago, hBLOXs said:

6 hours ago, hBLOXs said:

No. How could he have said that? “Even if” means “in the (unlikely) case of... you not having actively sought ...”. Stop twisting words.

 

really it is you who are giving other reasons according to your (wrong) thinking. he says exactly that 'Even if you, yourself, did not request or seek out modders help" means exactly that according to him I have not searched for a modder and therefore also according to his previous post, in which he clearly says that as far as GTA v is concerned he does not put the flag since the trophies must be earned, my flag is unfair and I shouldn't have.

 

Quote

You do realize that a whitelist also means that you’re off the leaderboards for GTAV anyway, right?

You’re kind of just fighting to achieve that the site would implement something generally which you are now “forced” to do individually.

Yo do realize that i already wrote above that i would like a Whitelist because "I wish this would never happen to anyone again" (referring precisely to my unjust flag)? creating a Whitelist would prevent errors based on personal interpretation as has unfairly happened to me (also this I had already written above if you look at the previous messages) for the trophies you can read on the first page of this thread. if you take one of those whitelisted trophies after it has been approved, you will not receive the flag and it ends there. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by patrizio1811

[ProfBambam55]

11 minutes ago, KimmysGotGame said:

Polls like this have been effective when they were made by a staff member with the power to make the change. Both of the times the metric for dlc rarity was changed it was because the majority of people wanted the system to be changed. As of this post the overwhelming majority (80%) want the rules changed on this but disagree with the specifics of the change. Being open to a change in the rules has improved my opinion of the crt by quite a bit.

 

On 4/30/2020 at 9:35 PM, B1rvine said:

 

No specifics were discussed, it was just mentioned while requesting more staff members such as @Squirlruler. However, if it were up to me, we need new leaderboard rules, at the very least to cover what would fall under a whitelisted status. CRT would be able to click "whitelist" instead of "cheat." If whitelisted, the user doesn't need to remove the game from their list, but it wouldn't be included in the First/Latest/Fastest achievers lists. They'd get a notification similar to the current one explaining what the status means. 

 

Things I'd like to be whitelisted would include:

• Any early PS3 games without encryption.
• Any games hackers can affect you.
• For impossible timestamps due to known Sony glitches (Leap Year Glitch / PS4-3 Wrong Game Upload Glitch)

I have a few other things in mind, but it would only make sense with new rules in general. 

 

For now, I'll take (almost) any whitelist.

 

it's possible there's a misunderstanding g here on my part...I think some of the options listed in the poll might be a new feature to the site mods that the crt can't program on their own...I think the greatest idea is above in @B1rvine's post a few years back...is this not the same idea as the one being discussed?...or am I misunderstanding what some of the options in the poll Imply and no new features are needed for staff?...

 

edit: I posted this in completely the wrong thread...my apologies...quoting across threads on mobile confuses me...

Edited October 15, 2022 by ProfBambam55