Any good?

[MMDE]

5 minutes ago, Joker said:

I loved the hell out of it, so did my girlfriend.

 

Good for you, because my point wasn't that there isn't anyone who love it, but rather that lots of people don't "hate it or love it", but rather find it mediocre, and I think the majority would find it rather mediocre tbh. Wasn't really anything good about the game IMO.

[Paleblood]

Just now, MMDE said:

 

Good for you, because my point wasn't that there isn't anyone who love it, but rather that lots of people don't "hate it or love it", but rather find it mediocre, and I think the majority would find it rather mediocre tbh. Wasn't really anything good about the game IMO.

Was I implying that that was your point?

There was a ton of good stuff in the game, great even, just not your type of good.

[DrBloodmoney]

1 hour ago, MMDE said:

 

Good for you, because my point wasn't that there isn't anyone who love it, but rather that lots of people don't "hate it or love it", but rather find it mediocre, and I think the majority would find it rather mediocre tbh. Wasn't really anything good about the game IMO.

 

 

I’m not sure Virginia can really be considered mediocre, as there are not a huge number of games that attempt to tell a story the way that it does.

 

What I mean is, to be mediocre it would have to fall between good examples of similar games and bad examples of similar games. At this point in the industry, this type of psychedelic-narrative-structure is still fairly rare, and in combination with first-person walking-sim / detective adventure it is doing something still quite unique as far as I know. The lack of agency the player has in the pacing, and the use of visual metaphor in place of dialogue or text makes it an extreme outlier, and therefore not really a good fit for any pre-existing genre.

 

Its hard to be mediocre (ie. right in the middle) when you are (at least on PS4 as far as I know) one of a kind.

 

There is nothing wrong with not connecting with a game (and certainly with a relatively unique game, it is far more common to have that experience) but I think dismissing it as mediocre is reductive.

 

Virginia is doing something. What it’s doing might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but in my opinion, terms like mediocre are for games that simply stick to a tried and tested formula, do nothing new or interesting and just exist, without saying anything about anything or advancing the medium at all.

 

You might be right that the majority won’t love or hate it, but I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that the majority of people who play it will at least remember it. (I’ll bet that other devs played it and felt the same too.)

They will have an experience that is different from the norm - they might not like it per se - but that experience is worth something. Certainly it is worth more than the bland term ‘mediocre.’

 

Games shouldn’t be judged purely on what the majority will like - that leads only to endless sequels and a lack of innovation or experimentation.

(Let us not forget that - at the time, at least - the ‘majority’ of people liked Avatar and Transformers and Titanic.

The ‘majority’ of people rejected Bladerunner, Office Space and The Big Lebowski.)

 

Majority opinion doesn’t work for artistic mediums. Good taste is not mob-rule.

 

I loved Virginia, but even if I hadn’t, I would still have applauded the attempt at something different. 

I’d always rather play a bad game that tries something new than an okay game that is just another cover-shooter or FPS or Open World Crime-a-thon.

In this case, much to my delight, the game was both good and innovative and interesting. 

Lucky me! ☺️ 

Edited February 2, 2018 by DrBloodmoney

[starcrunch061]

On 11/22/2017 at 9:32 AM, DrBloodmoney said:

If you are a fan of Twin Peaks, then yes.

 

If you arn’t a fan of Twin Peaks, avoid it.

 

 

That's what people told me about "Deadly Premonition", too. As a fan of Twin Peaks, <shudder>

 

As far as the thread, I'm personally happy to see the contrary opinions. As my own reviews in similar "games as art" threads would show (such as Gone Home or Everybody's Gone to the Rapture), I likely would agree with MMDE than with Dreakon or DrBloodmoney, but the different views are always welcome. After all, Sony has shown a willingness to give different types of games for PS+, and this would seem to be a candidate in the vein of the two games I mentioned.

Edited February 2, 2018 by starcrunch061

[DrBloodmoney]

37 minutes ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

That's what people told me about "Deadly Premonition", too. As a fan of Twin Peaks, <shudder>

 

As far as the thread, I'm personally happy to see the contrary opinions. As my own reviews in similar "games as art" threads would show (such as Gone Home or Everybody's Gone to the Rapture), I likely would agree with MMDE than with Dreakon or DrBloodmoney, but the different views are always welcome. After all, Sony has shown a willingness to give different types of games for PS+, and this would seem to be a candidate in the vein of the two games I mentioned.

 

I’m sure it will surprise you in zero-ways to discover that: I love both those games! 

 

Hey, it takes all kinds to make the world go round, and it has never got under my skin when someone doesn’t like the stuff I like (actually, that’s a lie, it totally does, but I try not to let people know it and respect them anyways )

 

The one thing that does irritate me some, is when people dismiss something new or interesting or genre-merging or genre-breaking as ‘artsy’ - as if that is a pejorative. As if ‘art’ as a concept is bad, or snobby, or not for everyone.

 

Red Dead Redemption is a work of art. Call of Duty games are works of art. Minecraft is art. Even Deadly Premonition is art (we do, by the way, agree on the final outcome of that one!) 

I’m sure the people who make those products don’t sit down and go “I’m gonna make something today, boy, I sure hope no one calls it art!”

 

No one is forcing anyone to love all indie / experimental / non-standard type games, or even to like any of them, but I really do think that even gamers on the extreme opposite end of the spectrum - the ones who only play ‘Triple-A’ blockbuster games - should at least have some respect for the more experimental end of the industry. If only because those games tend to inform the next batch of the ‘Triple-A’ games they will be playing in he future.

 

Any time you hear developers of big games interviewed about games they have liked that year, they almost always reference smaller indie games - that is where the innovation happens, that then gets filtered into the big studio games later. 

 

Basically, my point is this:

 

Hate artsy games? Then you should thank God for artsy games!

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by DrBloodmoney

[Dreakon13]

2 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

Good for you, because my point wasn't that there isn't anyone who love it, but rather that lots of people don't "hate it or love it", but rather find it mediocre, and I think the majority would find it rather mediocre tbh. Wasn't really anything good about the game IMO.

 

Ah yes, the "things I've read indicate everyone agrees with me so I must be right" angle.

 

Some safe thinking right there.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Dreakon13

[MMDE]

18 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I’m sure it will surprise you in zero-ways to discover that: I love both those games! 

 

Hey, it takes all kinds to make the world go round, and it has never got under my skin when someone doesn’t like the stuff I like (actually, that’s a lie, it totally does, but I try not to let people know it and reapect them anyways )

 

The one thing that does irritate me some, is when people dismiss something new or interesting or genre-merging or genre-breaking as ‘artsy’ - as if that is a pejorative. As if ‘art’ as a concept is bad, or snobby, or not for everyone.

 

Red Dead Redemption is a work of art. Call of Duty games are works of art. Minecraft is art. Even Deadly Premonition is art (we do, by the way, agree on the final outcome of that one!) 

I’m sure the people who make those products don’t sit down and go “I’m gonna make something today, boy, I sure hope no one calls it art!”

 

No one is forcing anyone to love all indie / experimental / non-standard type games, or even to like any of them, but I really do think that even gamers on the extreme opposite end of the spectrum - the ones who only play ‘Triple-A’ blockbuster games - should at least have some respect for the more experimental end of the industry. If only because those games tend to inform the future of the ‘Triple-A’ games they will be plaing in he future.

 

Any time you hear developers of big games interviewed about games they have liked that year, they almost always reference smaller indie games - that is where the innovation happens, that then gets filtered into the big studio games later. 

 

Basically, my point is this:

 

Hate indie games? Then you should thank God for indie games!

 

 

I don't care if it's "genre-merging" if I don't think the end-result is any good. I can appreciate innovation, even for innovation's sake, but do I enjoy the game? Do I think it was it done well, or could I easily see how it could have been better? How does it compare to what we already have and know?

 

I call them "artsy" and "snobby", because some of these games aim at doing what you often learn at art/directing school. They copy what they learn is clever, intellectual and high brow etc, regardless of it makes for a good experience. It's snobbery.

 

I don't need a lecture about "art". Sorry dude, and in case you don't know, look at my profile. What kind of games do I play? Does that look like much AAA to you?

https://psnprofiles.com/MMDE/log?order=achievers&dir=asc

The two first games with least achievers there, RETSNOM and Fenix Furia, loved both. Space Overlords was garbage. Siralim was pretty good, a bit too repetitive after a while. Jet Car Stunts was okay. etc

 

 

8 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

Ah yes, the "things I've read indicate everyone agrees with me so I must be right" angle.

 

Some safe thinking right there.

 

Maybe I'm shit at expressing this, because the point flew straight over you too.

 

What I responded to was the dichotomy that was proposed, the "you either love it or hate it", as if that's the only two options. If you look at the response in the thread before I made a post, you'll see people say they didn't find it all that great. I don't think these people hate the game, or love it for that matter. So it's not a game you "hate it or love it".

 

I hope I explained myself better no. What I pointed out had nothing to do with my taste, or it trumping everyone else's, but rather pointing out that they were factually incorrect, because there was enough counter examples to disprove what they said (that people didn't only hate or love it, but rather many found it "meh" or "okay").

Edited February 2, 2018 by MMDE

[Dreakon13]

47 minutes ago, MMDE said:

Maybe I'm shit at expressing this, because the point flew straight over you too.

 

What I responded to was the dichotomy that was proposed, the "you either love it or hate it", as if that's the only two options. If you look at the response in the thread before I made a post, you'll see people say they didn't find it all that great. I don't think these people hate the game, or love it for that matter. So it's not a game you "hate it or love it".

 

I hope I explained myself better no. What I pointed out had nothing to do with my taste, or it trumping everyone else's, but rather pointing out that they were factually incorrect, because there was enough counter examples to disprove what they said (that people didn't only hate or love it, but rather many found it "meh" or "okay").

 

To be fair, I'm not seeing a lot of 'meh' in this thread.

 

" Well... I hate that game "

" I enjoyed Virginia "

" 'Not really my cup of tea' ... 'That way you'll either hate it and not feel too bad about wasting your money... Or you'll love it and feel like a champ' "

^^ " Pretty much how I felt about it. "

" it definitely was not a “me” game "

" Virginia is the 2nd best indie game I have experienced this generation "

" I loved the hell out of it, so did my girlfriend. "

 

Then of course, there's you and me.

 

There isn't a ton of 'well it was alright I guess' going on here.  I'd expect more objective reviews to probably fall into that 6-7/10 range because it's a different kind of game that, rightly or wrongly, doesn't really jump off the screen at you... but people do seem to choose sides with it.

 

 

EDIT: Also, chiming in with " Wasn't really anything good about the game IMO. "... at the end of your post kinda did make it about framing your point in an agreeable/favorable way and trumping everyone elses.  Which is pretty weaksauce.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Dreakon13

[MMDE]

55 minutes ago, Dreakon13 said:

 

To be fair, I'm not seeing a lot of 'meh' in this thread.

 

" Well... I hate that game "

" I enjoyed Virginia "

" 'Not really my cup of tea' ... 'That way you'll either hate it and not feel too bad about wasting your money... Or you'll love it and feel like a champ' "

^^ " Pretty much how I felt about it. "

" it definitely was not a “me” game "

" Virginia is the 2nd best indie game I have experienced this generation "

" I loved the hell out of it, so did my girlfriend. "

 

Then of course, there's you and me.

 

There isn't a ton of 'well it was alright I guess' going on here.  I'd expect more objective reviews to probably fall into that 6-7/10 range because it's a different kind of game that, rightly or wrongly, doesn't really jump off the screen at you... but people do seem to choose sides with it.

 

 

EDIT: Also, chiming in with " Wasn't really anything good about the game IMO. "... at the end of your post kinda did make it about framing your point in an agreeable/favorable way and trumping everyone elses.  Which is pretty weaksauce.

 

• If first one of those is me, you don't even represent what I say correctly. I just said I didn't think it was any good, and that it wasn't worth playing. Didn't hate it, didn't love it.
• Your response was that it was far from being considered a great game. You say you enjoyed it, didn't hear any "love it" from you. Unsure if you love it or not, but I don't think you loved it, maybe you do, maybe just thought it was enjoyable.
• SB said he quite enjoyed it, but he found it confusing towards the end (for good reason, it doesn't make any sense). He felt he got his £7 worth. Doesn't sound like he loved or hated it either.
• Rafi is the first to say he hated the game.
• DB hasn't actually said his opinion of the game.
• ragnarok said he enjoyed the game for what it is, not sure if that means love or just enjoyed.
• livingstone didn't get it and found it to be bouncing back and forth so got a hard time following it. Not his cup of tea, but didn't expect too much either. Doesn't sound like he hated or loved it.
• killbomb agrees with livingstone. Another one that doesn't sound like he hated or loved it.
• Ingberg didn't find the game was "them" and it controlled poorly and pacing was off, so I guess that means they didn't love it, but they liked the music. Sounds like they didn't hate it or love it.
• phantomfear seems to love it though.
• Joker loved it too.
• http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/virginia/critic-reviews 
  Some love it, some find it "meh", and others hated it.

 

It seems we got all kinds of opinions, not just the false dichotomy of "love it or hate it", which was my point all along. 

 

I've nothing against this genre either, I just didn't think this one was any good.

 

And yeah, I don't think this game did anything particularly well. I've explained this in my opinion post. That doesn't mean I hate the game... I just don't think there was anything good about it.

Edited February 2, 2018 by MMDE

[Dreakon13]

13 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

• If first one of those is me, you don't even represent what I say correctly. I just said I didn't think it was any good, and that it wasn't worth playing. Didn't hate it, didn't love it.
• Your response was far from being considered a great game. You say you enjoyed it, didn't hear any "love it" from you. Unsure if you love it or not, but I don't think you loved it, just thought it was enjoyable.
• SB said he quite enjoyed it, but he found it confusing towards the end (for good reason, it doesn't make any sense). He felt he got his £7 worth. Doesn't sound like he loved or hated it either.
• Rafi is the first to say he hated the game.
• DB hasn't actually said his opinion of the game.
• ragnarok said he enjoyed the game for what it is, not sure if that means love or just enjoyed.
• livingstone didn't get it and found it to be bouncing back and forth so got a hard time following it. Not his cup of tea, but didn't expect too much either. Doesn't sound like he hated or loved it.
• killbomb agrees with livingstone. Another one that doesn't sound like he hated or loved it.
• Ingberg didn't find the game was "them" and it controlled poorly and pacing was off, so I guess that means they didn't love it, but they liked the music. Sounds like they didn't hate it or love it.
• phantomfear seems to love it though.
• Joker loved it too.
• http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/virginia/critic-reviews 
  Some love it, some find it "meh", and others hated it.

 

It seems we got all kinds of opinions, not just the false dichotomy of "love it or hate it", which was my point all along. 

 

I've nothing against this genre either, I just didn't think this one was any good.

 

And yeah, I don't think this game did anything particularly well. I've explained this in my opinion post. That doesn't mean I hate the game... I just don't think there was anything good about it.

 

Strawman.

 

Love it or hate it typically doesn't mean specifically using those words or that everyone expresses the opinion with a fiery passion.  It means choosing sides, agree or disagree, like or dislike, love or hate.  Just because someone says they "this game wasn't their cup of tea" doesn't mean they're actually in the middle because they could've said "this game is a steaming pile of shit".   C'mon man.

 

(And the first one wasn't you, the quotes were directly from people's posts.  You and me were represented at the end.)

 

EDIT: I'm not going to acknowledge Metacritic because as I said the game probably should fall into that "average" area when you consider both sides.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Dreakon13

[DrBloodmoney]

1 hour ago, MMDE said:

 

I don't care if it's "genre-merging" if I don't think the end-result is any good. I can appreciate innovation, even for innovation's sake, but do I enjoy the game? Do I think it was it done well, or could I easily see how it could have been better? How does it compare to what we already have and know?

 

I call them "artsy" and "snobby", because some of these games aim at doing what you often learn at art/directing school. They copy what they learn is clever, intellectual and high brow etc, regardless of it makes for a good experience. It's snobbery.

 

I don't need a lecture about "art". Sorry dude, and in case you don't know, look at my profile.

 

 

Apology accepted  - though, I think you quoted the wrong response! 

I was answering @starcrunch061 With that one  

 

I must admit, I didn’t go to art/directing school - I wouldn’t know what they teach - it sounds awesome though!

Which one did you go to? Have you made anything I’d have seen? 

[IntroPhenom]

This thread is a little confusing.  The topic title is 'Any good?', and then the author goes on to answer their own question.  Was he asking himself?

[Dreakon13]

14 minutes ago, IntroPhenom said:

This thread is a little confusing.  The topic title is 'Any good?', and then the author goes on to answer their own question.  Was he asking himself?

 

I believe the point was to ask the question, answer it... then prod anyone who disagreed with impunity because liking, or disliking, games (especially "artsy" ones like this) is really a matter of subjectivity and his points can't really be proven or disproven.

 

Which is why it's turned moreso into a conversation about his attitude, and strawman points like how many people agree with him and the 'love it or hate it' thing.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Dreakon13

[MMDE]

39 minutes ago, IntroPhenom said:

This thread is a little confusing.  The topic title is 'Any good?', and then the author goes on to answer their own question.  Was he asking himself?

 

I make these threads where I say my opinion on the game, and you can of course share yours as well. I make them so when people look at the games, maybe considering getting them, they might check out the thread and know what the game is like. Sometimes people can't handle other people's opinion though, but I'll happily defend mine.

Edited February 2, 2018 by MMDE

[fastflowdaman]

The game was a massive letdown, and I love me some strange indie games like, let's say, Murasaki Baby or the mentioned Deadly Premonition (at least back on the X360; it was still OK when I replayed it on the PS3).

 

But Virginia to me was like one of those movies that tries to do something special and fails - you're watching it, waiting for something to happen or that you finally are drawn into the story, but it never happens. Then it is over and you feel like you wasted your time.

 

16 minutes ago, IntroPhenom said:

This thread is a little confusing.  The topic title is 'Any good?', and then the author goes on to answer their own question.  Was he asking himself?

 

While you're right that the title could've been phrased better, the way you're posting is also questionable. You come across like somebody who is talking about someone while that person is standing next to you. Ask him if he was asking himself instead of trying to be applauded by the others.

[IntroPhenom]

3 hours ago, fastflowdaman said:

The game was a massive letdown, and I love me some strange indie games like, let's say, Murasaki Baby or the mentioned Deadly Premonition (at least back on the X360; it was still OK when I replayed it on the PS3).

 

But Virginia to me was like one of those movies that tries to do something special and fails - you're watching it, waiting for something to happen or that you finally are drawn into the story, but it never happens. Then it is over and you feel like you wasted your time.

 

 

While you're right that the title could've been phrased better, the way you're posting is also questionable. You come across like somebody who is talking about someone while that person is standing next to you. Ask him if he was asking himself instead of trying to be applauded by the others.

 

Oh yeah?!?!  Well...the evidence does support that.  ?

[starcrunch061]

On 2/2/2018 at 10:13 AM, fastflowdaman said:

The game was a massive letdown, and I love me some strange indie games like, let's say, Murasaki Baby or the mentioned Deadly Premonition (at least back on the X360; it was still OK when I replayed it on the PS3).

 

But Virginia to me was like one of those movies that tries to do something special and fails - you're watching it, waiting for something to happen or that you finally are drawn into the story, but it never happens. Then it is over and you feel like you wasted your time.

 

My sentiments exactly. I actually had some hope for Virginia, but in place of plot, the directors just put a bunch of weird shit in the game, as if somehow that give it the patented "Twin Peaks" vibe. Unfortunately, while Twin Peaks also had a compelling story setting the foundation for its oddball narrative (at least in its early episodes), this game just treats the FBI case the way it treats everything else: completely disposable.

 

One of the worst games I've played ever (at least among those games that actually work).

Edited March 30, 2018 by starcrunch061

[FLCLcrim2]

Someone said to wait on a sale and I would agree. I was not blown away by this in the least, but I did enjoy the time spent with it. I find myself lately really getting into these games that give you space to interpret what is going on in the wider narrative. That wont be enough for everyone. I have not looked hard into what people think of this game. It does not surprise me to see such back and forth about how it is viewed overall. I would plant it at about a 6.5/10. The biggest gripe would be the end flies a little off the rails, but it is what it is. There are far better and far worse games of similar narrative structure out there. 

[starcrunch061]

3 minutes ago, FLCLcrim2 said:

Someone said to wait on a sale and I would agree. I was not blown away by this in the least, but I did enjoy the time spent with it. I find myself lately really getting into these games that give you space to interpret what is going on in the wider narrative. That wont be enough for everyone. I have not looked hard into what people think of this game. It does not surprise me to see such back and forth about how it is viewed overall. I would plant it at about a 6.5/10. The biggest gripe would be the end flies a little off the rails, but it is what it is. There are far better and far worse games of similar narrative structure out there. 

 

Incidentally, for those on the fence, the game is $2.50 right now in the current PS+ sale on the NA PSN store. That's one of the reasons I personally got it.

[MMDE]

19 minutes ago, FLCLcrim2 said:

Someone said to wait on a sale and I would agree. I was not blown away by this in the least, but I did enjoy the time spent with it. I find myself lately really getting into these games that give you space to interpret what is going on in the wider narrative. That wont be enough for everyone. I have not looked hard into what people think of this game. It does not surprise me to see such back and forth about how it is viewed overall. I would plant it at about a 6.5/10. The biggest gripe would be the end flies a little off the rails, but it is what it is. There are far better and far worse games of similar narrative structure out there. 

 

Were you able to interpret and extract anything meaningful out of this game? I just thought it was chopped up, lead nowhere but to nonsense, and playing it as a game, it was pretty bad. Are there really far worse games of similar narrative structure out there? Can you name any? I bet there's some nonsense on steam.

[Evertonian]

Having played this last night and then having been made to play it thru again to get the plat (making me do that for the final trophy being as illogical as the game itself) I would have to agree with MMDE

 

I really wanted to like it but even after two run throughs I am absolutely none the wiser as to what was going on. Just when I think I was getting it the story changed. It would have been brilliant if on the second playthru more flesh was put on its bare bones to help us formulate an idea of the tale. 

 

I think the devs tried to be too clever. Also the cinematic style closing credits which dragged on and on and on annoyed the (insert expletive) out of me, especially having to see them twice

 

I liked Deadly Premonition a lot and sort of got that, but this game seems to be based on a story that was never quite finalised and then was interlinked with five other stories and then chopped up and assembled in a random order.

 

So add me to the meh list rather than the like or loathe pile

[MMDE]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:28 AM, Evertonian said:

Having played this last night and then having been made to play it thru again to get the plat (making me do that for the final trophy being as illogical as the game itself) I would have to agree with MMDE

 

I really wanted to like it but even after two run throughs I am absolutely none the wiser as to what was going on. Just when I think I was getting it the story changed. It would have been brilliant if on the second playthru more flesh was put on its bare bones to help us formulate an idea of the tale. 

 

I think the devs tried to be too clever. Also the cinematic style closing credits which dragged on and on and on annoyed the (insert expletive) out of me, especially having to see them twice

 

I liked Deadly Premonition a lot and sort of got that, but this game seems to be based on a story that was never quite finalised and then was interlinked with five other stories and then chopped up and assembled in a random order.

 

So add me to the meh list rather than the like or loathe pile

 

Yeah, the game could definitely have been pretty nice IMO. It was just to improve the things I pointed out.

 

Example:

• Better controls.
• Some story twists.
• Clearer ending with some pay-off.
• A little more to do in the game other than just walking and the occasional clicking on something.

etc

[RahulSniper]

Personally thought this game was absolute garbage. Twin Peaks ripoff that tries really hard to be edgy and fall into familiar tropes of using acid etc for surreal experiences. Sad I have to play through twice for the plat

[baboon_overlord]

Definitely enjoyed Virginia, I thought it had a lot going for it.

 

If you liked Virginia and haven't played it yet, play Sagebrush. Another first person game that takes two hours to complete, but I thought the story was amazing, and was overall really well done.

On 2/2/2018 at 0:43 PM, MMDE said:

And yes, it's like a movie, but not one I'd watch. I doubt you'd sit down and watch this movie had it been a movie.

TBF if I was going to watch a movie, it would be some bonkers European arthouse film, so would be pretty much exactly like Virginia. ☺️

[MMDE]

1 hour ago, baboon_overlord said:

Definitely enjoyed Virginia, I thought it had a lot going for it.

 

If you liked Virginia and haven't played it yet, play Sagebrush. Another first person game that takes two hours to complete, but I thought the story was amazing, and was overall really well done.

TBF if I was going to watch a movie, it would be some bonkers European arthouse film, so would be pretty much exactly like Virginia. 

 

Sagebrush was a better game.