Questions about flag

[ProfBambam55]

37 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

The question we need to be asking is:

 

If a whitelist is not going to made available, how do we deal with this now, with the resources currently available on this site?

I also think this is the most important question...what does "lack of resources" even mean?...again, I think we have some great minds here...i'm completely useless with regards to technology but am decent at the whole cause/effect stuff...

 

I think there are three important things to consider...

 

1 - treating people who have unintentionally hacked trophies as "regular" cheaters does not seem to be acceptable...

 

2 - allowing cheated trophies to count on the leaderboards is a very risky position to take...

 

3 - proving intent behind cheated trophies can be nearly impossible in many cases just by looking at time stamps..

 

I'm busy right now but will brainstorm a bit and see if I can offer any relatively simple solutions...it would be good to know the limits of this site's resources too...i would really appreciate if Sly or others who are familiar with programing could chime in with a "possible/not possible/possibly possible" sort of comment or ideas on what might work...

 

 

[HasBeenDeleted]

deleted

Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[sephiroth4424]

Hiding the game but not counting it as a strike could be a solution (although site's rules tolerate two strikes).Not hiding is a problem.What about the gamers who don't have the trophy and aren't ''lucky'' enough to find a modder who will put a bounty on them?

For those the trophy will still be unobtainable.This has nothing to do with RDR.There the servers are hacked,there is not an individual giving free xp to randoms or friends.A modded lobby is more common than a clean one (or was,haven't played since completing it) and shooting a dead body for experience has become a feature of the game

[IoIly]

I checked profiles of 30 players who obtained this trophy from 22 november. Only 7 of them are trophy hunters (15+ platinum trophies).4 of them are PSNPROFILE members.

 

I sent messages to all of them asking how did they obtain the trophy and asked 4 of them, who are members of PSNPROFILE, to join this topic.

 

1) I got answer from one of them: "привет, надо найти в инете того кто с самого начала играет, только они могут назначить награду, как то так. баг или не баг не знаю." 

I translate it: "Hi, you need to find players who play GTA online from beginning. Only they can put bounty on your head. I dont know is it bug or not"

This guy dont know is it bug or glitch. He thinks what expirienced players know all games bugs and glitches.

 

2) Anower answer from other guy: "I was playing online when I received several bonuses. I went partly private not to be killed and I had the trophy as well. It was only later that I learned that the bonus function was blocked by players like you who contacted me to find out how I got it ... The only way to get the trophy is to 'wait for a hacker who puts a premium on your head ... Good luck, and good game"

 

3) Third guy: "Привет. Просто играл, угонял машины npc, много раз. И один из них на меня повесил награду.) Прожил 48 внутриигровых часа и получил.)"

Translate: I just stole cars many times. One NPC put bounty on my head. After 48 ingames hours i got trophy"

THIS GUY LIE

 

4) Guy number 4: "Привет, это получилось случайно. Мне повезло зайти в сессию, где неизвестный мне игрок назначил награду за мою голову, после чего я начал перезаходить в онлайн до тех пор, пока не нашел пустую сессию. Далее я просто провел 48 минут в открытом мире и получил достижение."

Translate: "Hi. It was happened occasionally. I was lucky to enter the room where unknown player put a bounty on my head. After i started to change rooms till i found the empty room where i got the trophy after 48 hours"

 

5) Guy number 5: "читеров попроси"

Translate: "ask cheaters"

 

6) Guy number 6: "I did it with the help of some friends" 

 

7) Last guy: "Добрый! Трофей ‘легальным’ способом не получить. Только с помощью читеров. У них есть возможность назначать награду за голову. Сейчас в онлайне на тройке ОЧЕНЬ много читеров. Просто найди одного и попроси его помочь тебе."

Translate: "Hi. This trophy is not possible to get legal. Only with the help of cheaters. There are MANY cheaters play now GTA online (PS3). Just find one and ask him to help"

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by IoIly

[ProfBambam55]

1 hour ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

Maybe the best solution in that particular case is to lift every flag regarding that trophy but count it as a flagged game. So the player doesn't have to hide it. But we can't say it's okay to cheat that trophy on purpose.

Leaderboards potentially  compromised...this is of great importance to some...

44 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Hiding the game but not counting it as a strike could be a solution (although site's rules tolerate two strikes).Not hiding is a problem.What about the gamers who don't have the trophy and aren't ''lucky'' enough to find a modder who will put a bounty on them?

For those the trophy will still be unobtainable.This has nothing to do with RDR.There the servers are hacked,there is not an individual giving free xp to randoms or friends.A modded lobby is more common than a clean one (or was,haven't played since completing it) and shooting a dead body for experience has become a feature of the game

Not sure if encouraging hacking is the way to go on this one nor do I agree with legit players having to hide anything...

 

I think both are completely valid suggestions...something to remember is that the current system has the flag team going over every case manually...perhaps a change on their end could be considered is what I was thinking...right now black and white seem to be their only two options...what if they had a grey?...as in the site takes action on everyone's behalf...technologiclly possible?...and what could the repercussions be that balance the above three points in my previous post?...

7 minutes ago, IoIly said:

I checked profiles of 30 players who obtained this trophy from 22 november. Only 7 of them are trophy hunters (15+ platinum trophies): 4 of them are PSNPROFILE members.

 

I sent messages to all of them asking how did they obtain the trophy and asked 4 of them, who are members of PSNPROFILE, to join this topic.

I got answer from one of them: "привет, надо найти в инете того кто с самого начала играет, только они могут назначить награду, как то так. баг или не баг не знаю." 

I translate it: "Hi, you need to find players who play GTA online from beginning. Only they can put bounty on your head. I dont know is it bug or not"

This guy dont know is it bug or glitch. He thinks what expirienced players know all games bugs and glitches.

 

I'm willing to test this...i've been around since the beginning...likely he doesn't even realize he's been hacked though...and please edit the id's out of your post out of respect for said players...

Edited December 29, 2017 by ProfBambam55

[IoIly]

6 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

.and please edit the id's out of your post...

Why should i edit their ids? Must their ids be edited from here too? https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/2093-grand-theft-auto-v/42-run-like-the-wind

[HasBeenDeleted]

deleted

Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[SnowxSakura]

13 minutes ago, IoIly said:

Why should i edit their ids? Must their ids be edited from here too? https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/2093-grand-theft-auto-v/42-run-like-the-wind

Just has to do with the naming and shaming rule

[ProfBambam55]

23 minutes ago, IoIly said:

Why should i edit their ids? Must their ids be edited from here too? https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/2093-grand-theft-auto-v/42-run-like-the-wind

right, naming and shaming...your post is just as valid without naming them so it's just a respect thing as far as I'm concerned...naming them adds nothing to this discussion...

[IoIly]

2 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

right, naming and shaming...your post is just as valid without naming them so it's just a respect thing as far as I'm concerned...naming them adds nothing to this discussion...

Ok

[ProfBambam55]

4 minutes ago, IoIly said:

Ok

thanks for understanding...also, good on you to do some digging...not sure how it will impact the topic but we'll see...

Edited December 29, 2017 by ProfBambam55

[ProfBambam55]

I've come up with an alternate idea here...it's not very pretty and I might scrap it upon further thought...so far, here's what I've kind of lazily come up:

 

phase one - (technologically simple or possible?...no idea...) 

only the trophies that the community agreed upon in our whitelist are made  to have publically hidden timestamps for all players...yep, past, present, and future...as in only site staff and the person who earned them could see the actual earned dates and times...this would not affect leaderboard appearance in any way...latest, first, plat and 100% achievers would appear as per usual only no one could see anyone else's time stamps for these trophies when clicking on their individual profile...trophies earned by cheating outside of our whitelist criteria would still be visible and subject to flagging...earned percentage on our profile pages would also appear as per usual...

 

side note : this would really suck for blops 2 and waw since all trophies can be auto-popped by hackers, even the single player ones...it would mean that all trophies' time stamps would be publically hidden for these 2 games...should they be excluded from white listing?...

 

phase two...(again, technologically simple or possible?...no idea...) 

manually remove players with  questionable timestamps from leaderboards (if this is possible on a player-by-player basis) for these trophies or games only...the cheat team would be trusted to weed out all cheaters who met specific criteria...ex. gta v - online trophy earned after april, 2017 + run like the wind...rank trophies earned within 0-20 seconds...perhaps a sweep could be conducted on a monthly/annual basis or something like that...

 

anyone caught cheating outside these conditions would undergo the usual flag/dispute process...also, should the flag team be uncertain on any cases they could make the case public through a dispute and provide a screenshot of the timestamps...ex. gta v - rank trophies earned 10 minutes apart...

 

side note: i'm not sure if a player's overall trophy level should be affected by this...i don't like the idea of it decreasing for a whole game list when only one trophy is iffy nor do I like allowing a potential entire cheated list like blops 2 to boost someone's score...thoughts?...

 

phase three...(I know this one is technologically possible and not overly complicated...yay...)

guide updates and help thread...i think it should be mentioned in all affected games' trophy guides that it is possible to encounter cheaters in public lobbies  and link to a thread that explains specifically why the games are whitelisted, which trophies are affected, methods for preventing these kinds of trophies unwillingly being stuck to one's profile, and how the site has chosen to deal with them...so far we are only dealing with ps3 thankfully...

 

there could also be an "i" icon that replaces the timestamps mentioned in phase one that leads directly to the help thread...

 

throwaway ideas here...just trying to present new ones in hopes of working towards a potential solution...limited resources really means nothing to me so no clue what is actually possible or not...

 

 

 

[PianoBunny]

8 hours ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Hiding the game but not counting it as a strike could be a solution (although site's rules tolerate two strikes).Not hiding is a problem.What about the gamers who don't have the trophy and aren't ''lucky'' enough to find a modder who will put a bounty on them?

For those the trophy will still be unobtainable.This has nothing to do with RDR.There the servers are hacked,there is not an individual giving free xp to randoms or friends.A modded lobby is more common than a clean one (or was,haven't played since completing it) and shooting a dead body for experience has become a feature of the game

To me it's the same as in Gta5， you say Gta5 is cheat then RDR is cheat too. In RDR, players can choose not to shoot.

I may say RDR is definitely cheat and GTA5 bad luck , player are forced to level 100.

[sephiroth4424]

2 hours ago, PianoBunny said:

To me it's the same as in Gta5， you say Gta5 is cheat then RDR is cheat too. In RDR, players can choose not to shoot.

I may say RDR is definitely cheat and GTA5 bad luck , player are forced to level 100.

I can find a modded lobby within 5 minutes in RDR.How long would it take me to find a modder in GTA V?

In RDR there is nothing unobtainable,in GTA V only those with bad luck (as you said) can obtain the trophy and a chance for the platinum.

In RDR you are taking a shortcut,a 15-20 hours long trophy is obtained in less than an hour.But the hacked servers also affect many of the other trophies,it takes longer to achieve them and i don't know if it's even possible without boosting.And if you think a shortcut is cheating, then boosting trophies is cheating as well (and please don't tell me about the trophies that need 50 people in the lobby and the dead mp, it's just a small % of all the mp trophies in every game)

[IoIly]

2 hours ago, PianoBunny said:

To me it's the same as in Gta5， you say Gta5 is cheat then RDR is cheat too. In RDR, players can choose not to shoot.

I may say RDR is definitely cheat and GTA5 bad luck , player are forced to level 100.

GTA5 and RDR. 

 

Hackers do Good bringing GTA5 server back to normal conditions. They are good guys, partisans who fight the Rockstar regime. They bring to the people the Feature which was taken away by Rockstar.

Will you judge Prometheus for giving fire to humanity? Will you judge people for taking fire from Prometheus?

Hackers dont help GTA5 community to obtain trophy. They just create conditions for obtaining the trophy

Situation: Ubisoft closed EndWar server and made all online trophies unobtainable. But somebody started to support this server and people were able to receive unobtainable trophies.

Somebody created conditions for obtaining EndWar trophies online.

What will you do with EndWar players?

 

Hackers did Evil when poisoned RDR server 

 

Do you see difference between?

[PianoBunny]

49 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

I can find a modded lobby within 5 minutes in RDR.How long would it take me to find a modder in GTA V?

In RDR there is nothing unobtainable,in GTA V only those with bad luck (as you said) can obtain the trophy and a chance for the platinum.

In RDR you are taking a shortcut,a 15-20 hours long trophy is obtained in less than an hour.But the hacked servers also affect many of the other trophies,it takes longer to achieve them and i don't know if it's even possible without boosting.And if you think a shortcut is cheating, then boosting trophies is cheating as well (and please don't tell me about the trophies that need 50 people in the lobby and the dead mp, it's just a small % of all the mp trophies in every game)

Hackers didn't affect other trophies. All trophies of RDR are as normal as it used to be. The server itself is bad. One can obtain all mp trophies except the level50 in one day by boosting when Internet is not crowded. 

I think shoot the dead body is allowed too. But in your logic, in Gta5 a hacker give me a bounty is regarded cheat, so RDR is cheat too, because you use something hackers left. It's not a shortcut, it is involving hack.

This is based on your logic, I think both are accepted.

[mekktor]

52 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

I can find a modded lobby within 5 minutes in RDR.How long would it take me to find a modder in GTA V?

In RDR there is nothing unobtainable,in GTA V only those with bad luck (as you said) can obtain the trophy and a chance for the platinum.

In RDR you are taking a shortcut,a 15-20 hours long trophy is obtained in less than an hour.But the hacked servers also affect many of the other trophies,it takes longer to achieve them and i don't know if it's even possible without boosting.

 

So basically

• It's ok to take advantage of hacking if it is widespread
• It's ok to hack a trophy as long as that trophy is still obtainable legitimately
• It's ok to hack a trophy to make up for some other trophies being broken

That's pretty much what you're saying here, isn't it? 

[PianoBunny]

47 minutes ago, IoIly said:

GTA5 and RDR. 

 

Hackers do Good bringing GTA5 server back to normal conditions. They are good guys, partisans who fight the Rockstar regime. They bring to the people the Feature which was taken away by Rockstar.

Will you judge Prometheus for giving fire to humanity? Will you judge people for taking fire from Prometheus?

Hackers dont help GTA5 community to obtain trophy. They just create conditions for obtaining the trophy

Situation: Ubisoft closed EndWar server and made all online trophies unobtainable. But somebody started to support this server and people were able to receive unobtainable trophies.

Somebody created conditions for obtaining EndWar trophies online.

What will you do with EndWar players?

 

Hackers did Evil when poisoned RDR server 

 

Do you see difference between?

You misunderstand my meaning. I think all is accepted including RDR.  I will shoot the deadbodies too when I meet them. Though I think get a bounty from a hacker is cleaner than  shooting deadbodies.

4 minutes ago, mekktor said:

 

So basically

• It's ok to take advantage of hacking if it is widespread
• It's ok to hack a trophy as long as that trophy is still obtainable legitimately
• It's ok to hack a trophy to make up for some other trophies being broken

That's pretty much what you're saying here, isn't it? 

Haha you make this much clear. 

[sephiroth4424]

4 minutes ago, mekktor said:

 

So basically

• It's ok to take advantage of hacking if it is widespread

Yes, if everyone can get a bounty from a modder on GTA V and get the trophy, it's fine

The unlucky ones getting the trophy and the lucky ones staying with an uncompleted game is not fine

8 minutes ago, PianoBunny said:

Hackers didn't affect other trophies. All trophies of RDR are as normal as it used to be. The server itself is bad. One can obtain all mp trophies except the level50 in one day by boosting when Internet is not crowded. 

I think shoot the dead body is allowed too. But in your logic, in Gta5 a hacker give me a bounty is regarded cheat, so RDR is cheat too, because you use something hackers left. It's not a shortcut, it is involving hack.

This is based on your logic, I think both are accepted.

You are cheating those who can't get a bounty from a hacker.Why is it so hard to understand it? 

[IoIly]

1 minute ago, PianoBunny said:

You misunderstand my meaning. I think all is accepted including RDR.  I will shoot the deadbodies too when I meet them. Though I think get a bounty from a hacker is cleaner than  shooting deadbodies.

I think get a bounty from hacker is not a crime for player. Bounty is supposed to be GTA online.

Shooting the bodies in RDR is not only matter of gamer's ethic, you get benefits from hacker

[PianoBunny]

1 minute ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Yes, if everyone can get a bounty from a modder on GTA V and get the trophy, it's fine

The unlucky ones getting the trophy and the lucky ones staying with an uncompleted game is not fine

This is funny. We don't define legit by whether everyone can get it.

I  am not lucky and can't meet a unique monster in diablo3, others who is lucky to meet one. So their trophies are unlegit?

That's funny

 

1 minute ago, IoIly said:

I think get a bounty from hacker is not a crime for player. Bounty is supposed to be GTA online.

Shooting the bodies in RDR is not only matter of gamer's ethic, you get benefits from hacker

Agreed.

[sephiroth4424]

1 minute ago, PianoBunny said:

This is funny. We don't define legit by whether everyone can get it.

I  am not lucky and can't meet a unique monster in diablo3, others who is lucky to meet one. So their trophies are unlegit?

That's funny

 

Yeah it is funny.Can you give me the spawn % of a modder that can give me a bounty on GTA V? Where do they spawn? 

[PianoBunny]

19 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Yes, if everyone can get a bounty from a modder on GTA V and get the trophy, it's fine

The unlucky ones getting the trophy and the lucky ones staying with an uncompleted game is not fine

And I can't believe you said yes. Let's just put how to mode lesson into the guide. Everyone is a modder and no one is cheating, cause it's widespread. Good idea bro.

9 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Yeah it is funny.Can you give me the spawn % of a modder that can give me a bounty on GTA V? Where do they spawn? 

I don't know. So what?  No one knows that except the hackers themselves. 

Maybe I can tell u they are in the public lobbies. Like unique monsters in diablo 3.They don't show up every time.Like deadbodies in RDR, they don't show up every time, you need to change free roams to find the deadbodies. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by PianoBunny

[IoIly]

6 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

Yeah it is funny.Can you give me the spawn % of a modder that can give me a bounty on GTA V? Where do they spawn? 

People say there are a lot of modders playing GTA5 online now. So you will find them easy

Edited December 30, 2017 by IoIly

[sephiroth4424]

4 minutes ago, PianoBunny said:

And I can't believe you said yes. Let's just put how to mode lesson into the guide. Everyone is a modder and no one is cheating, cause it's widespread. Good idea bro.

I don't know. So what?  No one knows that except the hackers themselves. 

Yes,the reason i don't know how to mod is because nobody puts the instructions in a trophy guide.

You say you don't know the specifics of modder spawning, yet you compare it with spawning a monster.Is it still funny?