Questions about flag

[HasBeenDeleted]

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Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[bezdomnekoty]

5 hours ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

I totally understand your view. But actually you're saying legitimizing CFW is okay as long as innocent players are getting protected. I'm sure every cheater would welcome it. This decision is not easy and could cause a big impact.

So in this case you must choose flag 100 innocent people and ruin their profiles and than go to sleep and have nice dreams or don't do it. Decision is obvious i think. In some cases there is no other way than making something legit. I'm off from this thread just wanted to write what i think.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Stevieboy
Clean up for previous deleted post

[HasBeenDeleted]

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Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[Sergen]

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Edited May 26, 2020 by Sergen

[MMDE]

13 minutes ago, Sergen said:

A trophy like Big Leagues on Black Ops II

 

Just to be clear, most people who are flagged for BO2 usually have way more than just issues with Big Leagues. They usually got all their remaining trophies popping at the same time.

[bezdomnekoty]

2 hours ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

 

Neither the flag system is ruining the profiles of innocent people nor the guy who's reporting. The hackers do!

Yes the hackers do ! Cause if there were no hackers no one could get this trophy and that would be perfect. So let me tell you all a short story. You are in a jewellery store with 3 other people it's You = the user of this nice site, Big Bad Bully = the hacker of course, Policeman = One of the guys that approve flags, and a Salesman  = One of the guys that report flags to be further disputed. TROPHY = GOLD WATCH. Big bad bully just stolen the gold watch and he somehow put it in your backpack suddenly the salesman noticed that the watch is gone and he closed the shop. The policeman is searching you and the big bad bully. He found the watch in your backpack and you will get 3 years jail for being innocent like the guy whos going to be banned from leaderboard and called a cheater for being innocent because some big bad bully dropped a trophy in hees backpack = profile. Would you like to be the one with the watch in the backpack? Fuck me if someone don't get it than this world is a shit place 2 live Sorry for my english & and i write everything with a remote control on my tv lul.

[HasBeenDeleted]

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Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[Sergen]

5 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

So I only need a friend who's doing the dirty work for me with a console that's not my own? It's a shame that hackers can manipulate trophy lists from others, but legitimizing CFW at the leaderboards in some cases can't be the solution for that. Every cheater who did it on purpose can play the "innocent card" afterwards.

 

I'm aware that some people do hack the games themselves. But remember, there are people who randomly come out of nowhere and CFW trophies for games and they'll never be caught. The leaderboards for the website won't catch out every cheater because people know how to hide it. Because modders CAN auto-pop trophies for people in public lobbies when the person simply wants to play the game and didn't ask for it, I think it is fair to not flag anyone, regardless of whether they cheated the game themselves. People brought it up in the white-listing thread before and what is normally said is "if someone hacked one of these games themselves then they've probably hacked other games in an obvious way", we say this because to hack a game like Black Ops II by auto-popping every trophy for yourself you need to have a CFW PS3. Save data for Black Ops II wouldn't unlock every trophy on the game. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Sergen

[HasBeenDeleted]

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Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[Sergen]

8 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

Your example is pretty good. But in your example you had no chance to avoid that situation. Trophy hunters who care about trophies have the possibility to avoid it. It's no secret that PS3 servers constantly get hacked.

I have another example I mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't know how it's handled in the US or in Poland, but in Germany it's a crime to pay with fake money, EVEN IF YOU DON'T THAT IT'S FAKE. 

 

An example of how this situation is would be that there's a crowd of people and one person out of the 100 in the crowd takes out a knife and stabs someone. Then when the police come, everyone in that crowd is arrested and convicted of stabbing that person. The police couldn't determine exactly who committed the stabbing so they decided to arrest and convict everyone. The stabber is the modder in a public game lobby and stabbing that person is unlocking the trophies for everyone and everyone in the crowd being arrested for the stabbing is those people getting flagged. PSNProfiles can't determine whether everyone intends to hack the trophies, just like the police couldn't determine if everyone in the crowd committed the stabbing. Both are cases of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you presented the stabbing case to anyone in the world, they'd say it was unjust to arrest everyone in the crowd for something one person did, but when one modder hacks trophies for 15 people simultaneously, people see that as all those people being a trophy hacker. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Sergen

[HasBeenDeleted]

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Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[Sergen]

10 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

If the police/court couldn't determine who's the murderer no one would go to jail. But PSNProfiles can determine on a specific account that hacking was involved. Ignorance is no excuse, just like in my example.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side. I wish hackers couldn't screw up the tophy list from someone else. But I think it's more important to keep the leaderboards clean than protecting a few innocent players.

 

The leaderboards will never be clean though, there are people who know how to cover their tracks... Also, developers of games even ban accounts at times for boosting, but on this website boosting is encouraged to get trophies. Activision, Rockstar and Sony could also determine who hacks games and ban their account from the servers, but they don't. If the companies that run the servers for those games don't care about hackers then PSNProfiles shouldn't try to police people's PSN Accounts. It's only a max of like 5 games that have these problems, so it's not putting someone at an impossible advantage against people below them when they have the trophies hacked for them randomly. I can't wait until people figure out how to do this on PS4 games and the trophies sync immediately. What will you tell someone who has trophies hacked for them on a PS4 game? "Don't play the game, you're forbidden to enjoy games because trophies could autopop for you". I know one thing, people who argue against white-listing just think it can't happen to them, but if it happened to them they'd more than likely come and say "I hope the games get white-listed". 

[HasBeenDeleted]

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Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[Aexuz]

10 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

I'm against white-lists because I don't think it's necessary. You said it yourself, there are only like 5 games with these problems. And you need at least 3 flagged games for getting removed from the leaderboards. So it's extreme unlikely that an innocent player gets removed from the leaderboards. And after the first flag s/he would be aware of that issue. White-lists won't change anything. Innocent players will still be branded as potential cheaters. And I wouldn't change my mind if I would get a flag because of a hacked lobby, which of course could happen to me too. Maybe I would change my mind if this is becoming a major problem and it's getting unacceptable to avoid.

Having that hidden icon in your profile is as bad as getting removed from the leaderboards in my opinion. First reason is people that will see your profile will automatically think you have cheated on a game. Second reason if you have worked on getting your milestones for platinum #50 or #100 for example or trophy #5000 etc.. everything will be messed up thanks to the games you hide.

 

I rather not be in the leaderboards that hide a game in my profile.

[TheLakota]

22 hours ago, HardXDXtraga said:

If you stopped playing before the feature was removed and now started again and earned a bunch of trophies, 'run like the wind' included (provided you had started mp before you stopped) that would be somewhat believable, but honestly how many cases do you think that applies to?

 

I'm not sure. More than zero?

[Se7en]

8 hours ago, MMDE said:

A permanent one, and it's not because it's "common and acceptable", but rather because it's permanent, available for all and become part of the game. Rockstar don't even attempt to fix it either. In fact, it has pretty much ruined online. Personally, I could never finish the game 100% because of how broken the online is.

 

The truth is it is NOT permanent. As ProfBambam said earlier, modded lobbies in RDR are completely avoidable. This is a known thing, that going to online portion of game from freshly loaded Story Mode through private lobby allows everyone successfully avoid modded effects, including: dead NPCs, invisible players, different sorts of connectivity problems, etc.

 

2 hours ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

But I think it's more important to keep the leaderboards clean than protecting a few innocent players.

 

And the reason to put leaderboards above innocent players is…?

[Sergen]

8 hours ago, Se7en said:

 

The truth is it is NOT permanent. As ProfBambam said earlier, modded lobbies in RDR are completely avoidable. This is a known thing, that going to online portion of game from freshly loaded Story Mode through private lobby allows everyone successfully avoid modded effects, including: dead NPCs, invisible players, different sorts of connectivity problems, etc.

 

 

And the reason to put leaderboards above innocent players is…?

 

A lot of the trophies for Red Dead Redemption require you to play in public lobbies and it’s more likely you’ll find a modded public lobby rather than a clean one. I played public lobbies many times while working on the game and never found a lobby that didn’t have somebody in there gaining tons of XP with a glitch. Rockstar haven’t bothered to fix RDR and they haven’t bothered to fix GTA V, so why is it PSNProfiles who is trying to police people? In my opinion, flagging people for innocently playing a game is putting them in the same category as all the people who CFW games to get fast time stamps and shit. I expected better of PSNP when I heard about modded lobbies unlocking trophies for people. I really never thought it would come down to people having to be recommended not to play a game because of modded trophies. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by Sergen

[Darkette]

11 minutes ago, Sergen said:

 

A lot of the trophies for Red Dead Redemption require you to play in public lobbies and it’s more likely you’ll find a modded public lobby rather than a clean one. I played public lobbies many times while working on the game and never found a lobby that didn’t have somebody in there gaining tons of XP with a glitch. Rockstar haven’t bothered to fix RDR and they haven’t bothered to fix GTA V, so why is it PSNProfiles who is trying to police people? In my opinion, flagging people for innocently playing a game is putting them in the same category as all the people who CFW games to get fast time stamps and shit. I expected better of PSNP when I heard about modded lobbies unlocking trophies for people. I really never thought I would come down to people having to be recommended not to play a game because of modded trophies. 

 

Yep, same issue with me. Not once while boosting online trophies could I find a clean lobby. It actually makes a few trophies unobtainable since it wouldn’t spawn enemies in hideouts. Luckily there’s a workaround to host clean lobbies, but the moment somebody that previously joined an infected lobby joins yours, yours becomes a “modded lobby” too, it’s like a virus.

 

Here’s what me and my friend used to get around it temporarily.

 

 

[Se7en]

2 minutes ago, Sergen said:

In my opinion, flagging people for innocently playing a game is putting them in the same category as all the people who CFW games to get fast time stamps and shit.

 

I fully agree with you on that matter. Just pointing out modded lobbies in Red Dead Redemption as the example of a totally different treatment from the flagging team, which somehow hasn’t drastically devaluated leaderboards after all.

[B1rvine]

The question we need to be asking is:

 

If a whitelist is not going to made available, how do we deal with this now, with the resources currently available on this site?

[HasBeenDeleted]

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Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[Sergen]

6 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

Because a CFW legitimized leaderboard is meaningless. So what's the point of a meaningless leaderboard with innocent players in it?

 

So you're treating people who play a game and unintentionally have trophies hacked for them as the one who actually decided they wanted to hack games themselves? The leaderboards already are "CFW legitimized", just think about all the people who edit their timestamps on a day to day basis, a lot of those people don't get caught at all. Because on PS3 you can set your timestamps to anything you want with CFW, you'll never truly know who is hiding something. 

[tlal_q8_22]

18 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

The question we need to be asking is:

 

If a whitelist is not going to made available, how do we deal with this now, with the resources currently available on this site?

It should game like bo2 , cod 5 , GTA and other. To be whitelited game.

[Se7en]

30 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

If a whitelist is not going to made available, how do we deal with this now, with the resources currently available on this site?

 

My guess is it won’t take a lot of site resources not to approve reports that meet certain whitelist criteria, which can be formulated and added as a bullet point under section “Things that are not flaggable” here. Any cons?

 

19 minutes ago, BigBossImBeamer said:

Because a CFW legitimized leaderboard is meaningless. So what's the point of a meaningless leaderboard with innocent players in it?

 

By that definition leaderboards are already meaningless, as you can never remove all CFW users from there. The question is: how far are we as a community ready to go to pursue that goal? For me personally refuse ”protecting a few innocent players” is the line I’d like not to cross.

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Se7en
clarification

[B1rvine]

6 minutes ago, Sergen said:

The leaderboards already are "CFW legitimized"

 

I generally see things the way you do. You probably know I favor a whitelist, anyway.

 

But just because not everyone is caught doesn't mean PSNP legitimizes CFW.  Actions allowing CFW to remain would, but simply not catching said users does not.