Game of Thrones - last season, episode comments - SPOILERS -

[TheLakota]

5 minutes ago, Nighcisama said:

The only episode that ever really infuriated me in this show, aside maybe from the Season 5 finale, which was only because of the long cliffhanger back then, was the season 8 Episode 3. The reasons for it were mentioned by me in great detail, even though most people just adressed my opening sentence. I am not mad about the current episode, I listed an equal number of ups and downs and the ups even slightly outweigh the downs for me, this episode is a clear improvement over the last one for me, but it was far from flawless.

 

You assume that I am mad because you seem hellbend on defending the show against any point of criticism I have, no matter how big or minor it is. Some of them you defend reasonably well, other defenses are just very weak and display a level of desperation I have not come across since I took a gander to discussions with LOTR or Star Wars fans, because these fanbases are so hard to interact with no sane person should even consider doing it. The problem is if you come off like a rabbid dog either defending or attacking everything on any given topic, no matter what it is, people will assume that you just bend everything to match the picture you want of the show. So at this point I just assume that no matter what they do to close the show, you will like it, because you really want to. I kinda envy such fanboyism, I was the same with two other shows back in the day, good times, people around you turn on the show because the decline in quality and consistency is clearly visible to them, but it is still the greatest thing in the world to you so you keep watching even if other people around you stop.

 

Since we probably won't be able to find common ground, we can just avoid discussing things with each other. As much as I enjoy writing things out, and you probably do too, it seems quite fruitless if we disagree with each other on everything in the end anyway. Only two episodes left, not worth getting into such long arguments anymore, that much slowly becomes clear to me.

 

My guy, I don't know you thus I'm not "hellbent" on proving you wrong or anything. It's not like I'm climbing to the top of a water tower to defend my sister's honor or something here, I'm just looking at things from another point in the spectrum than you are. It's simply a differing point-of-view.

 

You've made a number of assumptions in this thread about me and I've neither the time nor the inclination to refute anything -- not that I should have to -- so I'll just end with this:

 

*** I personally hope Arya crosses Cersei off her list, though that will likely fall to Tyrion strangling her to death. I assume the Hound will fight the Mountain and become mortally wounded, with slipknife Arya ending the latter once and for all. Dany dies (wish she'd bit it at Goldroad), Jon dies (he should have bit it beyond the wall), Jamie dies, Bron get's absolutely dick, Sansa rules the north and Tyrion sits on the throne because that' who I've wanted to claim it ever since Littlefinger got axed (or was it a Faceless, I don't know).

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

16 minutes ago, MooseSketts said:

I thought Varys has "little birds" everywhere... so why was he not able to know about the ballistas?  Is he completely cut off from them or something?

 

Since the previous comment about it I had one thought about it and it's the only one that makes sense to me.

 

Varys hid the information on purpose. Even before learning of Jon's secret he has been incredibly perceptive of Dany when others haven't and he made his true allegiance very clear once learning of Jon's real identity.

[djb5f]

3 minutes ago, Avatar_Of_Battle said:

 

Since the previous comment about it I had one thought about it and it's the only one that makes sense to me.

 

Varys hid the information on purpose. Even before learning of Jon's secret he has been incredibly perceptive of Dany when others haven't and he made his true allegiance very clear once learning of Jon's real identity.

 

So I was pretty sleepy when I watched last night's episode from a long weekend and I might have missed something.  But I get the impression that Varys and Tyrion have known about Jon's secret for some time.  It was not a recent development.  Varys joked about how 8 people now knew and that was like hundreds.  Also, several mentioned here that Sansa told Tyrion Jon's secret.  Did she really?  I thought she was just uncomfortable with Tyrion's statement about Jon still being a Stark that he easily picked up on it. 

 

Killing off the 2nd dragon was a plot move to try and even up the battle some - and make Cersei's side look more formidable. It was pretty far-fetched how it happened, but I still think the Night King's demise was more far-fetched.  I still love the show and will miss it but the quality has gone downhill after going through GRRM's material.  The worst season IMO was the one with the clergy somehow with enough power to imprison Cersei, that never sat right with me.

 

Easily one of my top 5 shows of all time and I am not into the "fantasy" genre.

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

1 minute ago, djb5f said:

 

So I was pretty sleepy when I watched last night's episode from a long weekend and I might have missed something.  But I get the impression that Varys and Tyrion have known about Jon's secret for some time.  It was not a recent development.  Varys joked about how 8 people now knew and that was like hundreds.  Also, several mentioned here that Sansa told Tyrion Jon's secret.  Did she really?  I thought she was just uncomfortable with Tyrion's statement about Jon still being a Stark that he easily picked up on it. 

 

Neither of them knew. The show made it pretty clear the secret went from Sansa to Tyrion without showing it and from Tyrion to Varys. As intelligent as Tyrion is he is not deducing that Jon is a Targaryen because Sansa looked weird. 

 

Varys was being cheeky because 8 people with a secret like that is likely to spread like wildfire at some point. Especially since Varys stated that it was no longer a secret it was information. 

 

I know I harp on this a lot...but there is also time to consider. Sailing isn't a fast method travel and we could have just seen when the gravity of that secret settled in. 

[djb5f]

3 minutes ago, Avatar_Of_Battle said:

 

As intelligent as Tyrion is he is not deducing that Jon is a Targaryen because Sansa looked weird. 

 

 

Agree, that is why I was thinking Tyrion already knew and that look Sansa gave was the tip-off that she knew too.

[TheLakota]

44 minutes ago, djb5f said:

The worst season IMO was the one with the clergy somehow with enough power to imprison Cersei, that never sat right with me.

 

Bollocks.

 

 

That season brought Cersei back down and showed just how far she was willing to go to "win".

 

It then gave us this, which I feel drove Cersei completely over the edge:

 

 

[djb5f]

@TheLakota, oh, there were plenty of iconic moments including the two you reference.  Even a "down" GoT season is a high standard.

Edited May 6, 2019 by djb5f

[TheLakota]

@djb5f down moments for me were Dorne and Mereen. Sons of the Harpy were interesting though. 

[EightBitArtist]

if the leaks for episode 5 and 6 are true (the ones for 4 were) then i really dont like who ends up sitting on the throne.

[RevengeancePrime]

I'm very disappointed with how the war with the white walkers was handled, but I'm not surprised because I feel like the writing has been somewhat lacklustre these last few seasons. It's not all bad as some relationships and characters are still handled well, but overall, there's been a decline in quality compared to earlier seasons. There are still aspects of the show that are great like the acting, so I'll continue to watch, but I don't expect to enjoy the show as much as I used to.

[Tianna_Mortis]

16 hours ago, Nighcisama said:

It is the manner which she has done it, how quickly she has done it and who she told it. She did not confess it to a trusted character like Brienne, she told it to freaking Tyrion, the hand of the queen she obviously wants to destroy at this point. She broke her word after swearing on it, which is already a no go for most because the word of a noble was supposed to mean something, so lightly breaking it was reserved for the likes of Joffrey and Walder Frey, but she also broke it after swearing to a member of her family and the one she wanted to be her king in the north. Jon is still family, they are still related and grew up together, but it seems like Sansa does not give a fuck anymore.

 

No, she very much does give a fuck and that's why she did it. I knew from the moment Jon told her and Arya that it would be Sansa who wouldn't uphold her word. But I have a few thoughts on this, some from a personal level.

 

1) I would have done the same thing. I don't say that lightly as there are quiet a few secrets people have told me I will take to my grave and people come to me as a sounding board because they know I'm not a blabbermouth. In this situation, there is no benefit to keeping her mouth shut. Dany has already shown herself to be an incompetent leader to Sansa twice now. She doesn't trust her, doesn't trust how Jon is just blindly following her and now she knows it's because Jon just doesn't want the responsibility for himself, which leads us to...

 

2) What Jon wants is irrelevant at this point. Hands down he would be a far better leader than Dany, especially since the hereditary Targaryen madness has just about completely taken hold. Jon himself has even seen that himself when her tearful, emotional plea took a sociopathic turn when she became completely cold and emotionless in less than a second when she found out he wasn't going to do what she wanted. If given the chance to pick between the two, most people would probably go with Jon at this point since they've been building on the Mad Queen angle for quite awhile now. With what Jon wants out of the way...

 

3) Tyrion was the most logical person to tell the information to. Sansa doesn't this kept a secret. Sansa wants Jon to take his rightful place as King. And if he won't do it himself, she's going to make sure he'll have no other choice. She knew Tyrion would most likely consult with the other advisors, including Vareys. Vareys has a reputation of turning on the leaders he has served in the past, plus he served under the Mad King himself. He has seen first hand the decent into madness. We already know he recognizes the same things in Dany. Sansa, if nothing else, was trying to get that information to him without being too conspicuous about it.

 

So, now we're going to have a rebellion within the rebellion, which has always been the logical next step after we found out Jon's bloodline. He may not want to be king, but he will either by his own free will or by force. As I said, and Varyes pretty much echoed it, what Jon wants is irrelevant at this point. Even if he wouldn't have told anyone, Dany, Sansa or Arya, when it came down to it and it became apparent to everyone that Dany has completely lost her shit, it would have fallen to Sam and Bran to do the right thing and go, "Hey! This guy over here has a better claim to the throne! You bitches need to sit down and shut up!"

Edited May 7, 2019 by Tianna_Mortis
duplicate post

[Petra_Lustig]

Everything is going so fast in this season.

 

In Episode 3 the Nightking was defeated in an epic battle, true enough. I also thought that Arya was the right person to kill him. Arya killing the Nightking is build up by G. R. R. Martin from book one, when she begins her training with Syrio. From book one on it was clear thar Arya would somehow become an assasin and she would play an important role in later parts. Now she did the job and will maybe do the last one, too.

The viewer should not forget; she has the ability of the 2nd face. When Arya meets Melisandre in Ep 3, Melisandre tells her, she can have all eye colors, even BLUE eyes. So that's the answer to how she got to the Night King. She took the face of one of his Walkers.

 

I liked in Episode 4 how she socialised with the Hound again ... and they are so similiar. So cool. "I have something to attend to ..." ... "Me too." ... 

Both, the Hound and Arya, will play a major role in the end. Especially for the Hound I did not see that coming.

 

And Jaime??? WTF ist he doing? First staying in Winterfell with Brienne (I felt so happy for her) and than leaving. For what? To fight with his b*llsh*t sister again? After he reunited with his brother and fought the dead? Or to kill her and to come back to Brienne after that? Looked like he's on a mission - but what? To kill the sister he had sons and daughters with?

 

Either way ... I think Cersei will not die in battle or through Daenerys or Jon, but by assasination. Either Arya or Jaime will kill her. The Hound will kill the last undead or die by him.

 

What I did not like about episode 4:

- the appearence of Eurons fleet ... suddenly there, shoots a dragon as easy it is to crush a fly (as if Daenerys could not have seen that fleet from above), then vanishes into thin air and Euron is in Kings Landing again with his beloved queen (WTF???) ... that the second dragon went down so easily disappointed me greatly. i mean, that dragon survived the fight with the undead dragon and then some arrows hit from nowhere and he goes down like ... man :-( . I love Daenerys' dragons..

It would have been better if they had killed the 2nd dragon during the fight against the Night King, but this lame thing: arrrrgh. 

- the fleet of Daenerys is destroyed, nonetheless she and her court appear suddenly in Kings Landing negociating with Cersei. (WTF?)

- Cersei had the chance then to end all the misery by just shooting the miserable lot down there. There were -like what- 50 men with Daenerys and Tyrion?. They just stood there and you could see the defense weapons on the walls. Cersei could have crushed them.

- Jon just sending of Ghost. That wolf is his protector. And HOW he leaves him. Really disappointing :-(

 

I also dont think Jon will be sitting on the Iron throne in the end. As the wildling said: he has the north in him. He does not want the throne. Daenerys won't get the throne either, because she has Varys against her now. And Varys has dethroned some kings ... And Daenerys loses her senses. I liked her for the most part of the series, but ... 

After Episode 4 I guess: Sansa will be the one. Although I dislike her very much.

 

And some other aspect: in season 1 Daenerys lost the child of the Khal. The witch mentioned she could never have children again, or so? Help me out! 

 

Can Daenerys still have children besides the dragons she bred in the fire in season 1???

 

[djb5f]

@Petra_Lustig, as for Jaime, you ever wake up the next morning and realize what you did the night before because of beer goggles?  I sense he is fleeing the giant woman as much as he is going to deal with unfinished business in King’s Landing.  Walk of shame if you will.

 

3 hits on the dragon from great distance was a little far-fetched but they obviously upgrade the contraption from the earlier season, much bigger and the weapons more advanced.  Plus, Daenerys was overconfident, thinking no harm could come her way.  

 

This season is being rushed but I will be sad to see it go.

[Avatar_Of_Battle]

True tragedy.

 

[BG_painter]

@Avatar_Of_Battle lol!! ?

 

I found this:

 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by BG_painter

[damon8r351]

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that this whole Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice & Fire thing is more of the same bullshit young male wish fulfillment fantasy I've read literally a hundred times before, and it was one gigantic rope-a-dope to provide Jon Snow with a crown and a hot wife. That as interesting as Daenerys' character journey has been, it was all just to flesh out her background a bit and that she's just going to end up as arm candy. Instead of, you know, a power or even the power because the god's forbid that the fantasy genre does something different for a change. I feel like I've wasted 20 years of my time.

[TheLakota]

1 hour ago, damon8r351 said:

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that this whole Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice & Fire thing is more of the same bullshit young male wish fulfillment fantasy I've read literally a hundred times before, and it was one gigantic rope-a-dope to provide Jon Snow with a crown and a hot wife. That as interesting as Daenerys' character journey has been, it was all just to flesh out her background a bit and that she's just going to end up as arm candy. Instead of, you know, a power or even the power because the god's forbid that the fantasy genre does something different for a change. I feel like I've wasted 20 years of my time.

 

You don't even know how the story will end and already you're claiming fantasy tropes. 

 

Hasty much?

[Charizarzar]

On 06/05/2019 at 0:26 PM, Gibbo_0113 said:

I dont know about that, Emilia Clarke said in an interview that episode 5 is even bigger then 3. "find the biggest tv you can" she says.

George has stated it could have and he wanted it to go to 10-13 seasons. D&D wanted it finished so they can move onto other projects.

 

 

She doesn’t sound thrilled about the ending here, there’s also another interview where Kit called it disappointing.

 

 

Not been impressed with some of the writing this season; making Dany miss Euron’s fleet while flying high in the air was the worst thing so far, just to give Rhaegal a forced death (imo) to make us hate Euron as much as TNK. One of the head writers reasoning was that she “forgot” about Euron even though they’d talked about him a few scenes before. And Cersei not just ordering all of them shot when they were standing there in King’s Landing with a tiny army lol. Been a fan of this show for around 6 years so it’s just disappointing that the last season’s been so rushed. Apparently HBO wanted more episodes but the writers didn’t.

 

[AJ_-_808]

1 hour ago, damon8r351 said:

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that this whole Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice & Fire thing is more of the same bullshit young male wish fulfillment fantasy I've read literally a hundred times before, and it was one gigantic rope-a-dope to provide Jon Snow with a crown and a hot wife. That as interesting as Daenerys' character journey has been, it was all just to flesh out her background a bit and that she's just going to end up as arm candy. Instead of, you know, a power or even the power because the god's forbid that the fantasy genre does something different for a change. I feel like I've wasted 20 years of my time.

 

And what if that's how it ends? Dont like it? Go write your own story.

God's forbid the author write his story the way he wants without being bombarded by SJWs.  

 

Considering the madness runs in Dany's genes, it wasnt completely unexpected.  Also runs in John's genes, so why not wait and see

Edited May 11, 2019 by AJ_-_808

[damon8r351]

8 minutes ago, TheLakota said:

 

You don't even know how the story will end and already you're claiming fantasy tropes. 

 

Hasty much?

 

No, but I have read a lot of fantasy novels. A lot. I'm not exaggerating, I've been reading fantasy novels since I was 10 years old and I've read literally everything you can think of between Piers Anthony and Roger Zelazny. After 29 years, you start to recognize patterns and realize Joseph Campbell was right. And as many times as Martin has done some pretty unique things, such as killing off what you think are main characters, I'm starting to think that's his only trick. I hope they don't go the way I think they're going with the show. Sincerely I do. I have a love-hate relationship with this story, where I've had several thowing-the-book-across-the-room moments because of how much it frustrated me. First one was page 46 of A Feast For Crows, where I saw who's name was at the top of the chapter, meaning they were a viewpoint character now. Another one was when I heard about the zombie dragon. God I love this series so much, but it really frustrates me sometimes.

8 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

SJWs

 

Don't throw that acronym at me. This isn't about social justice, it's about my frustrations with thinking A Song of Ice and Fire might've been just a little different than the hundreds of other fantasies I've read or played, and my sinking feeling that it isn't after so long.

[Sinastran]

2 hours ago, damon8r351 said:

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that this whole Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice & Fire thing is more of the same bullshit young male wish fulfillment fantasy I've read literally a hundred times before, and it was one gigantic rope-a-dope to provide Jon Snow with a crown and a hot wife. That as interesting as Daenerys' character journey has been, it was all just to flesh out her background a bit and that she's just going to end up as arm candy. Instead of, you know, a power or even the power because the god's forbid that the fantasy genre does something different for a change. I feel like I've wasted 20 years of my time.

 

If you think there's any chance Dany will be reduced to arm candy for Jon Snow at this point then I really question your ability to notice patterns, and your knowledge/understanding of the show/books. Dany will be a queen (with or without Jon), or she will lose. That she would end up as a trophy wife is not happening unless someone performs a lobotomy on her.

 

-

 

I have to agree with a lot of people here, I'm frustrated at Dany's arrogance, and the fact that she flew ahead without any sort of intel/scouts checking the surroundings. The first loss of her dragon should have taught her something. For personal - though still strange reasons I can relate to Dany when her children fall from the sky. I haven't been a huge fan of her throughout the show/books, but part of me wants to see her succeed more and more with each passing episode. The alternatives seem far worse. Marriage between her and Jon could be interesting, though I think the traditional husband and wife roles wouldn't apply in their case. Which actually makes me want to see it happen even more...

 

I can't help but feel emotionally depleted after each episode this season. Honestly regret it somewhat, feels like this is not the right time to be watching this shit, personally. I had so much I wanted to say and discuss but I find myself to mostly be at a loss of words when I sit down to write this. It seems like my reluctance to watch this season was some kind of subconscious attempt to tell myself I wasn't ready. Oh well. The things you do for procrastination...

 

Also, anyone else hate Euron? I realize he isn't exactly set up to be a likable character, but man I almost feels like he ruins the show a bit. He's just so one-layered it kinda ruins the immersion for me whenever he's in the scene. A depraved man whose only goal seems to be to get into Cersei's pants and smile at her like an absolute creep whenever that's not happening. I do realize he's pretty eager to become the Queen's partner and sit upon the throne, but still... Something about him just rubs me the wrong way (and this is coming from someone who enjoyed watching Ramsay have his fun). Perhaps it's the fact that he is a constant reminder that they ignored Victarion's story arc in the show. I'll never forget that fuckin' viking blocking a sword of Valyrian steel with his damn gauntlet.

 

1 hour ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

And what if that's how it ends? Dont like it? Go write your own story.

God's forbid the author write his story the way he wants without being bombarded by SJWs.  

This, so much.

Edited May 11, 2019 by SinisterPledge

[damon8r351]

1 hour ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

And what if that's how it ends? Dont like it? Go write your own story.

 

And another thing, while we're here: As a matter of fact, I did want to at one point want to write my own story. Ask my parents, my guidance counselor, the interviewer at a temp agency I worked a couple months with, they'll tell you the same. I once wrote a stage play that was performed by a group of teenagers at the Carson City Community Center back in the 90s. It was an adaptation of Odin's visit to the the seer Mimir. Not the Odin from Marvel or Final Fantasy, but the Valfather himself. The one that was missing an eye because he sacrificed it for knowledge and did things like taunt Thor about his mother while disguised as a boatman. It was amateurish trash.

 

This is the reason why I seem to know random facts about the Norman conquest and the Battle of the Hot Gates. Because I used to do shit like read The Poetic Edda and The Kalevala for pleasure because I knew fantasy authors liked to mine mythology and world history for ideas. And it's also the reason why I've read so many fantasy novels and know about the Monomyth. Then I realized I had absolutely nothing unique to add to the genre, and threw my notebook in the trash. Another entry for my Fuck It list: being a published fantasy author.

Edited May 11, 2019 by damon8r351

[damon8r351]

15 minutes ago, SinisterPledge said:

 

If you think there's any chance Dany will be reduced to arm candy for Jon Snow at this point then I really question your ability to notice patterns, and your knowledge/understanding of the show/books.

 

I read A Game of Thrones and most of A Clash of Kings in the spring of 99 while still in highschool, then stopped because there was a bunch of shit going on in my life then. Then I read A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords in 2001 and stopped because that was it at the time. Then I read A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, and the first 46 pages of A Feast For Crows in 2006 but threw the last book across the room because Cersei Lannister got viewpoint chapters. Then I read A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast For Crows, A Dance of Dragons, and the handful of extant stories involving Dunk and Egg while on vacation visiting my dad in 2015.

 

Do I have sufficient credentials to express my concerns with the direction of the fandom now?

Edited May 11, 2019 by damon8r351

[Sinastran]

55 minutes ago, damon8r351 said:

 

I read A Game of Thrones and most of A Clash of Kings in the spring of 99 while still in highschool, then stopped because there was a bunch of shit going on in my life then. Then I read A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords in 2001 and stopped because that was it at the time. Then I read A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, and the first 46 pages of A Feast For Crows in 2006 but threw the last book across the room because Cersei Lannister got viewpoint chapters. Then I read A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast For Crows, A Dance of Dragons, and the handful of extant stories involving Dunk and Egg while on vacation visiting my dad in 2015.

 

Do I have sufficient credentials to express my concerns with the direction of the fandom now?

 

 

You keep trying to boast and "educate" with more or less every post you make but it doesn't work, sadly. Yes, you've read books. Well done. I truly hope everyone knows Odin isn't created by Marvel or Final Fantasy. Furthermore, I don't doubt you've read the ASOIAF-series, nor do I dispute your claim. Instead of throwing seemingly unfounded predictions at us (which I believe to be little more than bait at this point - in which case you have succeeded. Congrats!), please elaborate on why you think there is any possibility that Dany will be reduced to arm candy for Jon? Don't say "I've read lotsa books you seeee" or list the series for a third time. Tell me, what indication do you have that Dany (as she is now, with all character development in mind), will allow herself to be sidelined by Jon and turned into a happy, smiling housewife? This series has provided so many strong female characters who refuse to stay in the shadow of the other sex, and I don't see Dany being any different. Besides, Jon has explicitly said he doesn't want the crown, and there is no reason not to believe him. He would be crushed by the weight of it. 

 

tl;dr:

Please provide some arguments instead.

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by SinisterPledge

[BG_painter]

I guess my thread now shows how much we are really all worried with the future of our favorite series.

I believe Jon will not be the king. He doesn't want to, it's not him. I do think they opened the path for Sansa and that upsets me. I think Dany deserves more.

I do think the books will go thru a whole different path, because there are many more characters in the books that influence the story, Let's not fight between our own and keep our fingers crossed, shall we?