Cyberpunk 2077 - overpromise, sell, underdeliver (Crowbcat)

[Lordidude]

7 hours ago, Voland44 said:

im highly doubt that CP2077 will be ever finished. some debugging + some QoL updates + maybe new police system. thats not enough for sure. 

I agree.

It took them 10 years to deliver this disaster.

 

 

[Eagle]

3 minutes ago, Lordidude said:

I agree.

It took them 10 years to deliver this disaster.

 

Where did "10 years" come from, LOL? The game was announced 8 years ago, and the development only began 4 years ago.

[Lordidude]

15 minutes ago, BRKs_Eagle said:

 

Where did "10 years" come from, LOL? The game was announced 8 years ago, and the development only began 4 years ago.

 

The announcement for the game was in 2011 and by that point they were already starting to work on it.

The first teaser trailer was released in 2013.

 

How has development only begun "4 years ago"?

LOL

[Eagle]

On 22/01/2021 at 0:14 PM, Lordidude said:

The announcement for the game was in 2011 and, by that point, they were already starting to work on it.

The first teaser trailer was released in 2013.

 

How has development only begun 4 years ago?

LOL.

 

Announcement =/= development has started. It began on 2016, when Witcher III's last DLC was finished.

 

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/01/14/cyberpunk-2077s-development-didnt-start-in-earnest-until-after-witcher-3-hearts-of-stone

Edited July 4, 2021 by Eagle

[Lordidude]

4 hours ago, BRKs_Eagle said:

 

Announcement =/= development has started. It began on 2016, when Witcher 3's last DLC was finished.

 

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/01/14/cyberpunk-2077s-development-didnt-start-in-earnest-until-after-witcher-3-hearts-of-stone

I didnt say a word about development. Which includes pre production. This started in 2011

Edited January 22, 2021 by Lordidude

[TJ_Solo]

3 minutes ago, Lordidude said:

I didnt say a word about development. Which includes pre production. This started in 2011

 

Still doesn't mean they worked on the game at all. 
At best it only confirmed that Cyberpunk would be the next game they would make after finishing up on TW3.

[Eagle]

On 22/01/2021 at 6:11 PM, Lordidude said:

I didn't say a word about development.

 

On 22/01/2021 at 0:14 PM, Lordidude said:

How has development only begun 4 years ago?

LOL.

 

Really? Contradictions aside, the announcement was 10 years ago (not 8, so I was mistaken there) but it doesn't mean they were actually fully working on it, as shown by the article I linked above. They only started in 2016.

 

In 2011, they were still working on Witcher III, as Witcher II had just launched.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Eagle

[AJ_Radio]

On 1/21/2021 at 2:55 PM, dieselmanchild said:

I think the rapid fall of Bethesda after the whole Fallout 76 debacle is quite similar to this situation as well.

 

I’m not as familiar with what went down in that specific case, but it’s another recent example of a revered company finding themselves the target of gamer’s wrath after they lied and mislead their consumers.

 

From what I remember, there were other scandals too, regarding the pre-orders and deluxe packages/special editions that didn’t deliver what they promised, and the way they continued to shamelessly plug merchandise and tried to squeeze every extra buck that they could out of a product that by all accounts was completely broken and riddled with bugs on release. They lost the trust of their fans almost overnight.

My issue is people mindlessly bought into the hype. 
 

Bethesda was already going downhill with Skyrim and Fallout 4. On the 360 I ran into numerous bugs and glitches with Skyrim. To me it was one of the most overhyped and overrated games in the past decade. It felt boring after a while, quests became clear this dungeon, do this fetch quest for this NPC. Even in 2011, it wasn’t that great graphically. If we are to compare other games of that time period, Dark Souls is leagues better. 
 

Then Fallout 4 comes out and it felt like a toned down version of Fallout 3 & New Vegas. It felt more like a Borderlands than a proper first person RPG. I know some people really love this game, but it was another Bethesda title that was extremely hyped and overrated. 
 

Then they shit the bed with Fallout 76 and their fanboys suddenly turned against them. I already saw it coming. 
 

People are already comparing CD Projekt Red with EA and Activision, that is just stupid. 
 

EA, Activision and Bethesda have a massive budget. CD Projekt Red doesn’t. Hello Games has an even lower budget. 
 

They clearly didn’t have the resources to make Cyberpunk 2077 as good as it could of been. But the Twitter mob that has to jump on everything that goes wrong is fucking shameful. 
 

Cyberpunk, like Fallout 76 before it, is just another easy target for the Twitter mob to attack, because these people have nothing better to do thanks to the COVID-19 pandemic that is keeping them locked in their homes. 
 

It absolutely sickens me. The video game media and their so called journalists just make everything worse.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Spaz

[dieselmanchild]

1 hour ago, Spaz said:

Bethesda was already going downhill with Skyrim and Fallout 4.

I have to strongly disagree with most of your feelings towards Skyrim. In terms of the game itself, I thought it was pretty amazing, especially at the time it came out. Admittedly I had very little experience with other games at the time, especially with other RPGs, so that lack of comparisons probably did made Skyrim seem a lot better than it actually was. 
 

However, all I know is that the experience I had with Skyrim was incredible. The world they built was incredibly immersive for me, and the sandbox style exploration really sucked me in like no other game has. The incredible music, the beautiful and varied landscapes, the characters, quests, storylines, and struggles of all the different races and factions were so well done that I really felt like I was a part of the world and his great, heroic struggle over the course of the weeks and months this that I played it. By the time I platinumed it I had spent around 300 hours in the game because I simply had to do and see everything.

 

Of course, from a technical standpoint there is a very strong argument to be made against Skyrim (and Bethesda in general). If you think it was bad on the 360, it ran like utter shit on PS3 and was indeed riddled with bugs. The game also reached a state of being basically broken if your saved game exceeded a certain file size. It was really bad...

 

By all accounts, Bethesda’s games have always been riddled with bugs and glitches, and yet for some odd reason they’ve always been tolerated by players who seemed all too willing to overlook these issues. It never seemed to harm Bethesda’s image or dampen the fan’s excitement towards their games. My personal theory is that because most Bethesda bugs are harmless, often quite funny and amusing, and even tend to add a weird sort of charm to their games at times, most players have willingly embraced them rather than see them as a major flaw. I also encountered numerous bugs during my time with Skyrim, some of which were utterly ridiculous (ex. shit like entire mammoth herds falling from the sky all at once), but it never bothered me either. 
 

Also I can’t speak for the Fallout series as I’m not really familiar with anything outside of Fallout 3, but from what I experienced, Fallout 3 on the PS3 is pretty much the epitome of laziness and failure. If you’re planning to play it long enough to go for all the trophies, it becomes virtually unplayable on the PS3.

 

I feel like overall, you’re probably right in your assessment that Bethesda’s fall was a long time coming though. I think maybe they got away with a little too much for a little too long, and got complacent. They took their fans for granted, and after the lies and blatant attempts to make a quick buck with a sham product, the goodwill of their fans ran out.

 

PS - I’m personally really looking forward to Elder Scrolls 6, but I really hope they’re approaching this project differently and learning from all their mistakes of the past. They need a big comeback, and if they deliver ES6 it could be just the thing they need to get back in a lot of people’s good graces.

[AJ_Radio]

17 hours ago, dieselmanchild said:

I have to strongly disagree with most of your feelings towards Skyrim. In terms of the game itself, I thought it was pretty amazing, especially at the time it came out. Admittedly I had very little experience with other games at the time, especially with other RPGs, so that lack of comparisons probably did made Skyrim seem a lot better than it actually was.

I’ve been gaming for nearly 30 years and I’ve played all different types of RPGs. I enjoyed Oblivion and Morrowind a lot more than Skyrim. Bought them both on the PC and sunk who knows how many hours on them. 
 

Skyrim didn’t age well in my opinion. Even with it having gone through remasters and resolution upgrades it just doesn’t look all that polished.
 

Other games in 2011 such as Dead Space 2, LA Noire and a couple more did a far better job in what they were set out to do. Sadly, both games were victims of bad management behind the scenes. Team Bondi was kaput shortly after LA Noire, so sadly there will probably never be a sequel which I would of really loved. Dead Space 2 from what I heard didn’t sell as many copies as EA wanted, so they turned the horror franchise into a co-op shooter with Dead Space 3. Skyrim however still retains a bit of its popularity, though I feel that is more on the fans playing their first RPG Bethesda developed. 
 

Dark Souls in my opinion is a much better game, but that’s not really a valid comparison. 
 

17 hours ago, dieselmanchild said:

Of course, from a technical standpoint there is a very strong argument to be made against Skyrim (and Bethesda in general). If you think it was bad on the 360, it ran like utter shit on PS3 and was indeed riddled with bugs. The game also reached a state of being basically broken if your saved game exceeded a certain file size. It was really bad...

 

They always play better on PC. 360 and PS3 were already vastly limited in their specs by 2011, my buddies from that time all gamed on the PC. I played all of Bethesda’s past games on the PC, Skyrim was the first I played on the console. And it didn’t perform nearly as well technically.

 

17 hours ago, dieselmanchild said:

I feel like overall, you’re probably right in your assessment that Bethesda’s fall was a long time coming though. I think maybe they got away with a little too much for a little too long, and got complacent. They took their fans for granted, and after the lies and blatant attempts to make a quick buck with a sham product, the goodwill of their fans ran out.

Bethesda became the victim of shitty management. 
 

Unfortunately a lot of the big companies go this way sooner or later. Prior to 2008 - 2010 EA was a mostly respected company by the fans who stuck with them for years. Now they’re among the worst companies with a long history of abusing their employees. It won Worst Company in America TWICE. Activision I’m personally not as mindful of, but they are scummy in many of the same fashions. Blizzard, a company I once highly loved and respected, is going down the same path, downhill. 
 

Bethesda has a long history with Elder Scrolls, but like other companies the management changed and it got progressively worse. They weren’t in a position to fuck with their fans in the Morrowind and Oblivion days. After so many years of success, they got too full of themselves and practically swept their fans under the rug. People are still boycotting them after Fallout 76. 
 

As someone who has known them for a long time, I felt Bethesda was going to fall eventually. All big companies do, and in these modern times they’ve all figured out how to fuck over their customers. 
 

CD Projekt Red sadly went down when they only have a few games to their credit. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt is hands down my favorite western RPG in the past 5 - 10 years. After numerous videos I’ve seen of people complaining about Cyberpunk 2077, I really don’t know if I want to get the game. 
 

Sorry for the long winded response. 
 

17 hours ago, dieselmanchild said:

PS - I’m personally really looking forward to Elder Scrolls 6, but I really hope they’re approaching this project differently and learning from all their mistakes of the past. They need a big comeback, and if they deliver ES6 it could be just the thing they need to get back in a lot of people’s good graces.

I feel that’s unlikely unfortunately. 
 

It’s very difficult to get out of the hole once Twitter starts making a case to constantly criticize you into submission. I don’t think Hello Games has fully regained the reputation they had prior to releasing No Man’s Sky. 
 

Fallout 4 was the last game Bethesda made that was met with mostly positive acclaim. They would have to really work hard and try to pull off a miracle. I haven’t exactly heard a whole lot of good come out of The Elder Scrolls Online. 
 

CD Projekt Red will unfortunately have to live with the bad reputation after Cyberpunk 2077. Really sad to see this 180 they pulled after the hard work and effort they poured into The Witcher 3.

[DivineDad89]

CDPR fell so fast and hard after The Witcher 3... Sad really. 

[Voland44]

On 22.01.2021 at 1:40 PM, AIDA_Tri-Edge said:

But my point was is that Cp2077 isn't a unique case. 

 

and F76 with NMS didnt prove your point, cus both of them were different cases. while yeah, they still both featured bad launch

 

On 22.01.2021 at 1:40 PM, AIDA_Tri-Edge said:

And you excuse nms because it has been fixed now? 

Nms didn't get fixed overnight. 

 

NMS was playable and pretty much full fledged game, though ofc lacking. that cant be sayed about 2077. there simply no any mechanic that working/balanced properly. and even that doesnt really matter while AI will stay at current state. even streamlined main story have progress breaking bugs, even after several updates. 

 

On 22.01.2021 at 1:40 PM, AIDA_Tri-Edge said:

But in the same sentence say that Cp2077 never will be... Can you see in to the future?

 

they already mention in twitter that they dont plan "NMS comeback". not directly ofc. they think that just fixing bugs and console versions is more than enough. and we already can see their roadmap. and thats basically just Witcher 3 updates style. fixing bugs + small free updates + paid DLCs in 2022. but 2077 required 10x more work than witcher 3 postlaunch. 

 

On 22.01.2021 at 1:40 PM, AIDA_Tri-Edge said:

Not sure why your trying to put Cp2077 on a negative pedestal. 

 

im already put my point. and this topic started with video btw.

 

but main reason is LYING. and i dont talking about not meeting expectations like some NMS(though CDPR not an small indie studio, and thats main reason why i didnt have high expectations for NMS) or that 2077 just unfinished even taking aside glitches\bugs. no... im talking about about lying that 2077 working well on consoles, and especially that... they FORCED every journalist to play only PC version. while console version was hided until release. yes, F76 is basically early acces launch just like 2077, but at least it had beta, and everyone understand in what condition game is. so yeah, thats first real "surprise" diasaster launch i ever saw. and im already saw every bad launch that were mentioned in this topic. btw all three witcher games from CDPR were with bad launch, but they not even close to 2077 disaster. which, if i know about it before, i would skip to... at least final paid DLC release

 

but real problem with 2077 i have... thats im love the game actually. it have awesome story\characters. it have awesome art direction/atmosphere. but it really hard to enjoy it in current state of the game. though yes, if you wouldnt upgrading stealth\hacking and would just teleporting from one quest point to another, without any exploration - you pretty much ok with admiring main story. though... you still need to be lucky. cus lol, i even cant finish main story because of takemura bug still wasnt fixed. even after "first big patch" 1.1 which is also doesnt met expectations - fixing amount like some small bugfix and even adding some new bugs

Edited January 26, 2021 by Voland44

[Voland44]

On 24.01.2021 at 9:11 AM, Spaz said:

EA, Activision and Bethesda have a massive budget. CD Projekt Red doesn’t. Hello Games has an even lower budget. 

 

there a reason why 2077 called as one of expensive games in gaming industry. 

 

and real problem of CDPR wasnt resources(money and developers), which they have more than enough actually. its management. and even big studies have problems with that. with each year games become harder to develop, and thats why proper management is crucial. especially with such ambitious project like 2077. they should have at least one more year of developement, but they decided to save money. and ofc they also feared that they will lost many preorders with another year of waiting. 

 

On 25.01.2021 at 5:05 AM, Spaz said:

 After numerous videos I’ve seen of people complaining about Cyberpunk 2077, I really don’t know if I want to get the game

 

you should get 2077. not as RPG game obviously. and even not as openworld action game. but as story-driven game

 

but ofc not now. wait until last paid DLC release in 2022, and then you could try it

Edited January 26, 2021 by Voland44

[AJ_Radio]

25 minutes ago, Voland44 said:

 

there a reason why 2077 called as one of expensive games in gaming industry. 

 

and real problem of CDPR wasnt resources(money and developers), which they have more than enough actually. its management. and even big studies have problems with that. with each year games become harder to develop, and thats why proper management is crucial. especially with such ambitious project like 2077. 

 

All of the big studios have these problems. Did you ever wonder why Ubisoft can make a pretty decent game then make a shitty game on their next run? I think a lot of fingers point to the management. The last Tom Clancy game had serious bugs and glitches. Assassin's Creed III and Unity both had numerous issues with glitches and bugs, which was well documented in many critic reviews I read. Then there are games like Watch Dogs 2 and Assassin's Creed Syndicate which weren't that bad at all in terms of technicalities.

 

But sometimes it's not the management or the lack of resources, it's how they handle the projects. I mostly enjoyed Assassin's Creed Origins, despite some issues I had with it. I tried out Odyssey for a few hours this month on an alt and it's already clear I probably won't like it as much. It's far too big, so much content yet the vast majority of it is simply cookie cutter filler. Enemies are basically sponges, I can't take on enemies who are slightly higher leveled because I get my ass kicked.

 

Many games with a massive budget that I've seen these past couple years have mostly been 'playing it safe'. They all follow the same patterns, the same styles, the same sort of gameplay once you take away the themes. The days of developers pretty much working on a project themselves with groundbreaking innovative ideas while having some valid game testers are long gone. Gaming is now the biggest entertainment medium today, with thousands of people pitching in to develop a game that they contributed little towards as it's the publishers who have the say in a lot of things. Games with massive budgets can't take risks anymore because the publishers only want the bottom line, which is to make money at the expense of everything else. EA has done it for a long time and has a long track record of abusing their employees.

 

I've seen 2077 many times already on Twitch and YouTube, and it's already a game I will not buy until it's offered at a very big discount. CD Projekt Red mostly had The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt clinging to them since it was such a beautiful and well designed game.

 

At this point I mostly stick with indies as I find them more simpler, less divisive and just more fun in general. No bullshit press surrounding games like Cyberpunk 2077, none of the reviewers scoring automatic 10 out of 10s in their reviews because they're focused on the presentation and not the substance. And even if you took away a lot of the problems surrounding the developers and publishers, you got a mob Twitter cult out there who will shame and criticize anything that doesn't sit in their cotton candy world. It makes me sick to my stomach.

 

In short, it is fucked on both ends. Both the developers/publishers and the angry millennial Twitter mob. I can't just pick one side.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Spaz

[djb5f]

On 1/19/2021 at 4:50 AM, Lordidude said:

Probably the best thing that C2077 has done is waking Crowbcat from his hiatus so he can create his Magnum Opus.

The video essay covers not only the insane amount of bugs but also the blatant lies and promised features that were never realized.

 

Enjoy.

 

Wow.  I am still very interested in the game (waiting for PS5 version of course) but to release a game in that state, smh.  So many bugs and technical issues to address.

 

 

 

[TJ_Solo]

Quote

but ofc not now. wait until last paid DLC release in 2022, and then you could try it

 

What paid DLC?

Edited January 30, 2021 by TJ_Solo

[Voland44]

On 26.01.2021 at 0:34 PM, Spaz said:

 

All of the big studios have these problems. Did you ever wonder why Ubisoft can make a pretty decent game then make a shitty game on their next run? I think a lot of fingers point to the management. The last Tom Clancy game had serious bugs and glitches.

 

thats not a point, really. my point was that with better management with same resources, like time and developers, 2077 could be not only finished, but much MUCH better overall. its really sad for me, cus CDPR have one of the best writers in the industry. 

 

as for ubisoft. well yeah, there a reason why "holiday season" is a thing. that why publishers sometimes doesnt get risks right, because of that precious "fall release date".

 

like breakpoint

Spoiler

(it wasnt really broken though, it was pretty playable. and i played even 27hrs in beta. but engine wasnt polished at all, graphics would be much better and optimised)

 or unity

Spoiler

(tbh really broken was only pc version, 90% of unity bug memes were from pc port. but at least Unity still is one of the biggest technical achievements in this genereation. funny though, its countless online features who really broke this game. turning off my psn offline and framerate gets really better. still wasnt stable 30 fps but thats shows how they add online component at last time cus it wasnt properly tested)

for both of them additional several months would be enough. but thats not the case with 2077. as we can see, it should have released at least in november 2021 really...

 

tbh mostly ubisoft management is pretty good, consindering how much openworlds they producing. its just insane. openworlds are most difficult games to produse/polishing, after all. and i like their post launch support and how they always make open betas and free weekends/trials(for example in breakpoint you can play coop with ppl who even doesnt have the game, as much as you want)

 

On 30.01.2021 at 3:32 AM, TJ_Solo said:

What paid DLC?

 

what they planning. i think they announce them in end of the 2021 when they done with nextgen upgrade

Edited February 1, 2021 by Voland44

[PostalDudeRus]

Finished this game on PC twice and so far, nothing really breathtaking in this game was found by me. It is just "ok" game, dozens of games like this coming out every year, pretty much forgettable experience in other words. Story+characters+quests are weakest part of the game, whole story seems more like comedy about criminal fools trying to earn easy money by robbing other idiots and complaining how bad things are. It doesn't matter how you start game you always end up with Jackie and funny thing is, they skip best part of V and Jackie relations by showing some quick-ass cutscenes and not letting you to actually play through this events...now that a new level of character and story development lmao. Sliverhand part of story is pure cringe, an asshole terrorist trying to blowup building and ending up sucked into chip lol, he behaves like idiot and deserves nothing better then being stuck forever there. Not gonna spoil anything here but there are only 2-3,5 endings and they both suck. Things they promised in trailers, like "revolution in RPG gaming" is just lie and provocation, there is no role-playing elements in game and 85% dialogs are not even worth listening to. Hell, even leveling up and fighting enemies in game is not fun, especially if you choose melee. man, pick up that dildo you receive as quest reward + triple-damage and even last boss can't do shit against you lol. I glad I didn't pre-ordered this game, it doesn't delivers things promised in trailers and promotional materials, it's not even fun as something to kill time in. Graphics is good tho, especially in some scenes and ambient music sometimes can deliver, but it is way too little to make such dump game good.

 

tl;dr - I dont know about you guys, but for me game sucks, 3/10 (1 score for festival scene, 1 for being able to kill cops with dildo and 1 for graphics)

[AJ_Radio]

On 2/1/2021 at 1:12 AM, Voland44 said:

thats not a point, really. my point was that with better management with same resources, like time and developers, 2077 could be not only finished, but much MUCH better overall. its really sad for me, cus CDPR have one of the best writers in the industry.

 

I understood your point entirely, don't try to tell me I was completely misinformed about it.

 

I can make the argument that EA Sports, if they had better management, would make much better sports titles. Instead of the same copy and paste garbage they crank out year after year.

[DrDankSouls]

On 1/24/2021 at 1:11 AM, Spaz said:

 

EA, Activision and Bethesda have a massive budget. CD Projekt Red doesn’t. Hello Games has an even lower budget. 
 

They clearly didn’t have the resources to make Cyberpunk 2077 as good as it could of been. But the Twitter mob that has to jump on everything that goes wrong is fucking shameful. 

You do know that in 2020 CDPR had a valuation of over 8 Billion USD making them the largest developer in Europe, larger than even Ubisoft? I'll agree that they didn't have the pedigree or talent to meet the lofty expectations but they did have the money and resources.

[DaivRules]

36 minutes ago, OG_NosePicker said:

You do know that in 2020 CDPR had a valuation of over 8 Billion USD

CDP S.A. had that valuation. Projekt Red is only their game development department. 
The valuation also includes their ownership of GoG.com and is only 16x 2019 earnings. A standard valuation. 
 

Valuations don’t directly mean they have that full amount of capital available for any and all projects. It means they can get access to capital if they need it. 

[majob]

7 hours ago, OG_NosePicker said:

You do know that in 2020 CDPR had a valuation of over 8 Billion USD making them the largest developer in Europe, larger than even Ubisoft? I'll agree that they didn't have the pedigree or talent to meet the lofty expectations but they did have the money and resources.

No company has unlimited funds and resources to pour into something. Your estimated value is not the same thing as your liquid value or the amount of liquid assets you have on hand. Many projects are done on credit

[Quink666]

First Bioware then Bethesda and now CDPR. Hopefully they can bounce back and make this game good similar to No Mans Sky. Will wait until I have a PS5 to play Cyberpunk. By then most bugs should be fixed. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Quink666

[Lordidude]

18 hours ago, OG_NosePicker said:

You do know that in 2020 CDPR had a valuation of over 8 Billion USD making them the largest developer in Europe, larger than even Ubisoft? I'll agree that they didn't have the pedigree or talent to meet the lofty expectations but they did have the money and resources.

Not really. A business having a value is pretty much equivalent to someone having a good credit score.

Doesn't automatically mean there are a lot of liquid assets around.

 

CDPR even got funded by the Polish government.

They weren't swimming in money, most companies aren't. 

 

Money gets reinvested to expand the business and pay lower taxes.

[Voland44]

21 hours ago, Lordidude said:

Not really. A business having a value is pretty much equivalent to someone having a good credit score.

Doesn't automatically mean there are a lot of liquid assets around.

 

CDPR even got funded by the Polish government.

They weren't swimming in money, most companies aren't. 

 

Money gets reinvested to expand the business and pay lower taxes.

 

yeah, thats how is working industry. money and developers isnt everything(and again, CDPR have enough of them). thats remind me some news about Amazon. how they invested 200 billions into Amazon Game Studios since 2014 and still... we didnt hear about them much, didnt we? ?