Huge issue with staff using 'time played' to accuse people of cheating

[Joker-Kun890]

Just went to quickly check some of mine... 13 hours on Vermintide 1... That number is probably closer to 500. ?

 

Vermintide 2 numbers are accurate though... 1100 and most of that is post trophies. ?

[PS_Bowser]

12 hours ago, Sergen said:

Not only can the play time tracking on the console track too little play time, but also too much play time:

 

So can anyone tell us how someone is able to play a game too much for the tracker to handle?

 

On the topic of Exophase, if you make an account there you can click on the small pencil icon on the game's thumbnail and from there you can manually edit your play times. I changed all my play times on there to 69 hours, you're gonna need a PS5 to see my actual play times on my profile if you're not using the PSN API.

 

As far as testing how to create bad play time stats is concerned, unless you have a way of going back to specific PS4 firmware updates any testing you do with the current firmware is probably in vain. There are millions of people who play video games, eventually someone is gonna have issues with stat tracking, it should really be taken with a grain of salt when the time stamps a person has on their trophy list are legit. How widely available is CFW time stamp editing on the PS4?

CFW doesn't exist on PS4 only Kernal/Webkit exploits on OFW which needs to be applied after every PS4 reboot plus you can't go online with it anyway unless you upgrade the firmware which would be a waste of a PS4 since you can't downgrade to do it again. PS4 Timestamp editing is typically done using a PS4 testkit which a few people have and sell timestamps at a high cost.

[Ancestral_Spirit]

7 hours ago, Infected Elite said:

but On topic exophase isnt the best site either, it says i earned 4 trophies from ps4 spiderman in 7 seconds. While this site says i plat it 6days.

Spiderman ps5 i autopopped. So idfk. No site is perfect. I just can't believe how much these stats mean to people. Unless you're getting paid for it, stats shouldn't mean all that much. As long as you're enjoying what you do and accomplish while gaming, thats what really matters. 

 

Oh no no, you're misunderstanding. I couldn't care less about my stats, playtime, completion rate etc.

The issue here is sites like exophase, that the CRT team claim have times that are 100% because it goes by the PSN API, are being used to 'catch cheaters'.

When you have times that don't match up on this site and exophase, they're using this to claim that people must have used things like CFW to cheat their games, when in reality, the times don't match up because sites like this are not accurate. PSN API is not accurate. Hell i don't think PSNP is accurate for a lot of cases.

 

Judging by the amount of people that are posting impossible stats from exophase that they've not messed with, i'd say most people have at least a few games that could be claimed to be cheated on, simply because exophase doesn't even have a time listed, let alone ones that are simply wrong.

 

But because a member of the CRT has claimed to have tested it 50 times and he's had no issue, therefore all the times are right, and anyone who tries to argue it is trying to cover their own tracks because they're a cheater  :/

Quote

Honestly, this is a huge misinformation campaign being purported by cheaters trying to cover their tracks, or people just parroting uninformed hysteria.

Basically that means that anyone in here who claims to have a time on exophase that doesn't match what they've done, we could now all be accused as cheaters or we're all simply hysterical.

Personally, i don't think that's right.

[hBLOXs]

3 hours ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

Basically that means that anyone in here who claims to have a time on exophase that doesn't match what they've done, we could now all be accused as cheaters or we're all simply hysterical.

Actually, no. Not even close.

 

Although you may wanna watch that “parroting hysteria” part. Some ppl seem to be more prone to it.

 

What you quoted was in response to “The tracked played time stored in the PlayStation profiles is not accurate at all and must not be used as a proof of a cheated game in my opinion.”

 

 

B1rvine: “This generalization about Sony’s data is a misinformation and ppl are now parroting it.”

You: “OMG, EVERYBODY who had A game with times that don’t match on EXOPHASE is now considered a cheater or simply hysterical.”

 

Do you not see how you’re going completely overboard while appearing, um, misinformed?

Edited April 29, 2021 by hBLOXs

[ShockCo]

I saw some guy that had the plat for Fortnite, which is like a 1,000 hour grind. Apparently he got the plat in like 4 hours. Maybe it's a glitch, but I don't know. There are plenty of other cases like this.

[Ancestral_Spirit]

1 hour ago, hBLOXs said:

Actually, no. Not even close.

 

Although you may wanna watch that “parroting hysteria” part. Some ppl seem to be more prone to it.

 

What you quoted was in response to “The tracked played time stored in the PlayStation profiles is not accurate at all and must not be used as a proof of a cheated game in my opinion.”

 

 

B1rvine: “This generalization about Sony’s data is a misinformation and ppl are now parroting it.”

You: “OMG, EVERYBODY who had A game with times that don’t match on EXOPHASE is now considered a cheater or simply hysterical.”

 

Do you not see how you’re going completely overboard while appearing, um, misinformed?

Hhhmmm it's almost like you cherry picked all the bits you wanted to read and completely ignored the issue, but i'll make it nice and simple and hopefully this time you'll read it all and understand what i'm getting at.

 

CRT uses PLAYSTATION NETWORK API or reported game times and looks at those times to see if people have cheated or not.

The website EXOPHASE claims that it uses PLAYSTATION NETWORK API to show EXACT time and data on how long people have played a game for.

The person that you quoted 'Nakqz' is not a member of the CRT.

The member of the CRT posted this in response to the quote you just posted:

Quote

Honestly, this is a huge misinformation campaign being purported by cheaters trying to cover their tracks, or people just parroting uninformed hysteria.

 

I've done a good 50  tests under "normal" play conditions, trying to break the timer by doing various things that I can imagine a gamer would do. All have failed, and the time is dead on accurate. There's a few known instances where the time will show incorrectly under special circumstances, but when a player's time is ONLY messed up on the hardest games in existence, they've cheated.

 

So... I know what doesn't mess up the time, and nobody seems to want to tell me what they're doing to mess it up. I suspect it's cheats, or some form of leaderboard rule breaking.

If you read this entire quote carefully, that last line there shows that if he sees someone, with a 'messed up time' using the PLAYSTATION NETWORK TIMES then they have cheated. His times were all 'dead on accurate', so everyone elses should be right?

If you look through people's playtimes for games on this thread alone, there are multiple people saying that their times are not showing up correctly i.e. messed up times.

People with messed up times are cheaters.

Everyone on this thread is a cheater.

I can't look through your list on exophase cos i have no idea how to add you, but i'm sure we'll find that you have at least 1 or two games that you've finished that have no time attached. So that makes you a cheater as well.

 

I have no idea why i have games on that list that have no times on them, but i sure as hell remember playing them. But if i can't explain why, it makes me a cheater or a leaderboard rule breaker.

 

Go back through that dispute thread that was in OP's post, and have a really good read. The person that's saying that these PSN times should NOT be used is NOT a member of the CRT, and then gets shut down by a member of the CRT saying that they are accurate, and anyone who says otherwise is a cheater, leaderboard breaker or hysterical.

[Nakqz]

4 hours ago, hBLOXs said:

Actually, no. Not even close.

 

Although you may wanna watch that “parroting hysteria” part. Some ppl seem to be more prone to it.

 

What you quoted was in response to “The tracked played time stored in the PlayStation profiles is not accurate at all and must not be used as a proof of a cheated game in my opinion.”

 

 

B1rvine: “This generalization about Sony’s data is a misinformation and ppl are now parroting it.”

You: “OMG, EVERYBODY who had A game with times that don’t match on EXOPHASE is now considered a cheater or simply hysterical.”

 

Do you not see how you’re going completely overboard while appearing, um, misinformed?

Hello, that was me that posted the message about times in the dispute, because someone asked if the player could provide its played time saved on his profile.

I said that this is not accurate because, based on my own data, I've got multiple games without any tracked time or with time not accurate at all. I posted a long post with multiple examples, but an administrator or someone else deleted my post and closed the thread, without being able to complete my first remark and prove that I said something based on my own data. Adding detailed examples to prove what I wanted to say seems to be unacceptable given that it was removed.

And that's what I precised "in my opinion" at the end of my first post, because I don't have all the knowledges about how tracked times work in Playstation profiles.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Nakqz

[Paperclip1776]

14 hours ago, AJ_Radio said:

What I find funny is a guy who made an account back in 2012 has now suddenly become active in a thread regarding how the CRT handles disputes, with just 94 posts to his name.

 

Point taken, crap like this is why I never bother posting in any disputes thread or bother arguing trophy philosophies from either side. I've had a whole bunch of posts automatically hidden even when I gave ample reason that somebody did cheat by using timestamps or whatever.

 

I don't know how B1rvine handles this crap. I would of stepped down from that position a long time ago. But here we are bitching about trophies that mean practically nothing to the majority of gamers out there.

 

Makes me wonder how you guys handle day to day life if this is enough to have you all overly sensitive.

Not sure what your point is?  Yes, I've been on the site since 2012.  Yes, "point taken" was when someone made a good point on my comment that was difficult to return a reply to.  What's the difference if I had 4,000 posts or 2 posts, do I have wait to have the perfect number of posts to become active in a thread regarding how the CRT hands disputes?  Better yet, how many posts should I have had before I commented on a dispute with the CRT?

 

Regarding your last comment ("Makes me wonder how you guys handle day to day life if this is enough to have you all overly sensitive.")  If you read my original post, you'll see I was defending the CRT.  Maybe I should just criticize posts with no logical counter points in either direction like your post and wonder why the CRT's didn't step down a long time ago because they have to deal with crap like "point taken"?  

[Ancestral_Spirit]

@hBLOXs

 

Here are some of your games with no times listed:

Birthday of Midnight, no time but you've earned 12 trophies and on your other stack of it you do have a time listed

Uncharted The Lost Legacy, no time but you've earned 48 trophies

Driveclub, 71 trophies and again no time listed

Persona 4 Dancing All Night, no times on either of your stacks but you've finished them both.

White Night, finished with no time listed

 

I think you can see what i'm getting at, and i won't even comment on times that do appear on there for games you've finished, because i'm god awful at knowing exactly how long a game should take even for ones i've played myself  

Do you think these would be considered 'messed up times' and do you have an explanation as to why no times are showing for these games?

Because if not, now you just look suspicious to the CRT and could be branded a cheater for it, which again like i've said with the others, i don't think you are.

 

Edit: And on a completely random note, why did you play Uncharted Drakes Fortune Remastered for 486.2 hours?! That's either hella dedication, hella love for the game, or you went out for a week and left your playstation on   

Edited April 29, 2021 by Ancestral_Spirit
Uncharted

[Ancestral_Spirit]

And i don't know if someone can answer this one for me, as i genuinely don't know how this would work.

 

Let's say you have a PS4, PSVita cross save game that you can transfer your data between.

You can see how long people have played PS4 games for, but not Vita or PS3.

So if someone played a game partially on both systems, and transferred their save between PS4 and Vita, can that be taken into account on the time played, or would it just show your data for time played on PS4 and not vita?

[Nakqz]

12 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

And i don't know if someone can answer this one for me, as i genuinely don't know how this would work.

 

Let's say you have a PS4, PSVita cross save game that you can transfer your data between.

You can see how long people have played PS4 games for, but not Vita or PS3.

So if someone played a game partially on both systems, and transferred their save between PS4 and Vita, can that be taken into account on the time played, or would it just show your data for time played on PS4 and not vita?

Yes, for what I see from my profile data, only time spent on PS4 is taken into account (I've seen this for Dragon's Crown, Hotline Miami 2 and Binding of Isaac).

Edited April 29, 2021 by Nakqz

[Conor]

Some of my times listed on my PS5 are waaaaaay off. I don't use Exophase so I don't know what it looks like there either.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Stan Lee

[Shizo]

I don't mind CRT using playtime as an argument in disputes, if it's in addition to other more heavy evidence. Like having a few games with times not being displayed properly is fine, but if every single game you 100% has very low time then it's very fishy.

[Tolmantric]

Seeing as if you “Appear Offine” the PSN times stop counting it’s a stupid metric to rely on.

 

Test it yourself, play “Appearing Offline” for the next week and see if the time tracks.

[Mesopithecus]

2 hours ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

Edit: And on a completely random note, why did you play Uncharted Drakes Fortune Remastered for 486.2 hours?! That's either hella dedication, hella love for the game, or you went out for a week and left your playstation on   

 

It's a collection - as they have played all the games in the collection, the time only shows on the first game (Drakes Fortune Remastered)

 

9 minutes ago, TolmanianDevil said:

Seeing as if you “Appear Offine” the PSN times stop counting it’s a stupid metric to rely on.

 

Test it yourself, play “Appearing Offline” for the next week and see if the time tracks.

 

I pretty much always have myself set to "appear offline" and have not had any issues with time tracking 

 

 

On the topic though, I'm sure the CRT don't just go to Exophase times and then accuse people of cheating based on that alone.  They have a lot of different checking measures, but they are just not publicly discussed otherwise cheaters will find ways to get around them.

[TimeLordCrow13y]

35 minutes ago, TolmanianDevil said:

Seeing as if you “Appear Offine” the PSN times stop counting it’s a stupid metric to rely on.

 

Test it yourself, play “Appearing Offline” for the next week and see if the time tracks.

 

I almost always have my status set to “Appear Offline” on PS4-but the only game I have no time on according to Exophase is TERA. 

 

I keep getting more and more confused, lol. 

[Dark_Overlord]

46 minutes ago, Shizo said:

I don't mind CRT using playtime as an argument in disputes, if it's in addition to other more heavy evidence. Like having a few games with times not being displayed properly is fine, but if every single game you 100% has very low time then it's very fishy.

 

The point I'm making is it shouldn't be used at all.  It has proven to be completely wrong at times and as such can't be taken seriously.

 

24 minutes ago, Mesopithecus said:

 

On the topic though, I'm sure the CRT don't just go to Exophase times and then accuse people of cheating based on that alone.  They have a lot of different checking measures, but they are just not publicly discussed otherwise cheaters will find ways to get around them.

 

No, but they are using the times reported by the PSN which have been proven to be wrong.  The fact that a CRT member is stating they are dead accurate and anyone with low times is a cheater is so completely off that they can't expect to be taken seriously when the issue of times is bought up in a dispute.

[grimydawg___]

So, now there's a thread made, about a person who paid a cheater to do trophies for him.  Geez . You're overreacting to nothing honestly.

Edited April 29, 2021 by grimydawg___

[Dark_Overlord]

4 minutes ago, grimydawg___ said:

So, now there's a thread made, about a person who paid a cheater to do trophies for him.  Geez . You're overreacting to nothing honestly.

 

The issue isn't about the cheater, the issue is with what B1rvine posted which has proven to be blatantly wrong.

[JoesusHCrust]

3 minutes ago, grimydawg___ said:

So, now there's a thread made, about a person who paid a cheater to do trophies for him.  Geez . You're overreacting to nothing honestly.

The CRT have to keep their methods confidential so typically disputes are resolved with little or no info available to us plebs. I don't have a problem with that, but I suppose it creates the possibility that you'll end up with half a dozen pages of people confirming that exophase doesn't accurately record gaming time when the CRT didn't rely on exophase to make a decision! 

[Dark_Overlord]

2 minutes ago, JoesusHCrust said:

The CRT have to keep their methods confidential so typically disputes are resolved with little or no info available to us plebs. I don't have a problem with that, but I suppose it creates the possibility that you'll end up with half a dozen pages of people confirming that exophase doesn't accurately record gaming time when the CRT didn't rely on exophase to make a decision! 

 

Did you not read my complaint?

 

Here is what B1rvine posted

 

Quote

Honestly, this is a huge misinformation campaign being purported by cheaters trying to cover their tracks, or people just parroting uninformed hysteria.

 

I've done a good 50  tests under "normal" play conditions, trying to break the timer by doing various things that I can imagine a gamer would do. All have failed, and the time is dead on accurate. There's a few known instances where the time will show incorrectly under special circumstances, but when a player's time is ONLY messed up on the hardest games in existence, they've cheated.

 

So... I know what doesn't mess up the time, and nobody seems to want to tell me what they're doing to mess it up. I suspect it's cheats, or some form of leaderboard rule breaking.

 

So it's misinformation that the times reported by PSN are wrong.

 

People with low times are cheaters or breaking leaderboard rules.

 

Do you not see a huge issue with this when the vast majority of people in this thread are stating that the PSN reported times are wrong?

[grimydawg___]

2 minutes ago, Dark_Overlord said:

 

The issue isn't about the cheater, the issue is with what B1rvine posted which has proven to be blatantly wrong.

You're really overthinking too much.  Quit making broad stroke assumptions.  

1 minute ago, JoesusHCrust said:

The CRT have to keep their methods confidential so typically disputes are resolved with little or no info available to us plebs. I don't have a problem with that, but I suppose it creates the possibility that you'll end up with half a dozen pages of people confirming that exophase doesn't accurately record gaming time when the CRT didn't rely on exophase to make a decision!

Disputes would exponentially increase if exophase was used like that.  You guys are really overthinking.  It's really not that serious.

[Baker]

Yeah. These exophase times are in some cases highly inaccurate. But I don’t think the CRT is going to report people based only on that statistic.

On the other hand you have these flagging vultures on this website that report people for no good reason at all. I’m worried about those people though because this gives them another reason to go on a flagging spree.

 

Really there should be a penalty if you wrongfully flag someone. I’ve said that many times before. Seems like a good idea to me.

[DaivRules]

1 minute ago, Dark_Overlord said:

Do you not see a huge issue with this when the vast majority of people in this thread are stating that the PSN reported times are wrong?

Have they all been flagged for cheating? That should tell you that the words they used don’t directly mean everyone has been flagged as being a cheater when their times are “wrong”. 
 

There also isn’t a huge amount of people flagged solely for their PSN times being off as evidenced by a lack of disputes who’s only reason is PSN times are “wrong”.
 

You’re making accusations when you don’t have all the information and don’t have evidence that your “huge issue” is actually an issue at all as you have a data sample of zero people affected by what you’re accusing. 

[Dark_Overlord]

1 minute ago, Baker said:

Yeah. These exophase times are in some cases highly inaccurate. But I don’t think the CRT is going to report people based only on that statistic.

 

 

The issue isn't just Exophase though, they're using the Playstation API that uses the PSN to report times, the PSN itself is what is giving off the wrong times.