Game Achievements Ltd

[DaivRules]

3 minutes ago, WildZubatAppears said:

That's just an extremely conservative point of view assuming that that everyone else is just as reluctant to change.

 

It's just not true. That's not what i hear on YouTube. That's not what I read on discord. That's not even what I read here on this same forum. The things I really hear about the PSNP trophy leaderboard are a mix of either indifference or active disdain. People genuinely don't like it and are warning new comers to stay away from it as far as possible.

 

That's the current reality of PSNP's leaderboard. The majority would like it to disappear forever. A minority keeps it alive. The community is unable to autoregulate. It enabled several issues with the trophy system and it reached a point where Sony the massive slow moving corporation actually had to jump in and address it because the community responsible for it just wouldn't.

You misstated my point when you claimed I assumed “everyone else is just as reluctant to change” and then gave me a bunch of your sought out confirmation bias.

 

I’ll just refer back to your “I wholeheartedly disagree” and leave this conversation there. 
 

[Darling Baphomet]

3 hours ago, DaivRules said:

Secondly: What ethical issue did you lay out? You don’t like the games Sony allowed in their store? Ethically, Sly and his site is in the clear because it’s been remarkably consistent from the beginning by not passing any arbitrary judgment in excluding people from participating. It’s been the opposite of inaction by denying those that would deny others from participating in the sites leaderboard by shouting the loudest that they don’t belong. 

 

... That is literally still inaction. Action would require doing something.

 

Secondly, PSNP has already taken a stand against shovelware games by filtering them out of the new releases. You can repeat the word arbitrary as many times as you want, but shovelware is a detriment to serious trophy hunting and to any site dedicated to that. "You don't like the games Sony allowed in their store?" If you're going to pretend that PSNP is Switzerland, at least be consistent with it. If Sony is the end all authority in regards to trophies, surely these perfectly legitimate, Sony approved games should be listed alongside all the other perfectly legitimate, Sony approved games on this definitely non-arbitrary trophy hunting website that would never do anything arbitrary, like ban an entire category of games because they're garbage.

 

3 hours ago, DaivRules said:

PSNP doesn’t enable Sony.

 

Where did they say this? They said that PSNP enables the issue, which is to say, shovelware spam. How you got "PSNP enables Sony" out of that is beyond me.

[DrBloodmoney]

7 hours ago, DaivRules said:

PSNP gained its influence through its design and welcoming standards of a non-arbitrary trophy points leaderboard. It’s what continues to bring people here and it’s what should stay, and possibly welcome additional arbitrary leaderboards as well. 
 

PSNP doesn’t enable Sony. Sony enables Sony and judging by Sony only seeming to crack down on asset flips, but not multitudes of identical regional trophy stacks, Sony has sent the message that they’re mostly fine with the state of trophies and PSNP should continue with the same approach it always has. There are plenty of other trophy sites with leaderboards and the audience that seeks them out will show the support numbers for other arbitrary trophy leaderboards and if there is more support for those, they’ll eclipse PSNP as the most influential. 

 

 

This argument is nonsense, and you know it.

 

 

While Sony is the custodian of the trophy system, as a nebulous entity - having created it and maintaining - the trophy tracking sites are the ones who are the custodians of "Trophy Hunting" as a specific hobby.

They they created that, not Sony.

 

Sony has never had its own leaderboards - that was the trophy sites that did that, and formed Sony's clay - a loose personal achievement system , into a regulated, somewhat uniformly accepted thing for their members to use and enjoy.

 

Sony is the manufacturers of the footballs... but the trophy sites are FIFA, regulating the rules of the game.

 

 

As the market leader among those trophy sites, PSNP is in a unique position to act, if/when the rules of the game have been exploited to an extent that a change in the rules is required / desired to ensure the game remains healthy.

 

 

If you truly think that PSNP, say, reducing the points value for "games" that it already deems to be "shovel ware" and of no value, would have no impact on the game - or a resulting impact on Sony's desires to to keep allowing them to release - you're either mad, or simply being wilfully ignorant.

 

These products are not to exploiting Sony's clientele generally - they are exploiting the contingent of Sony's clientele that forms PSNPs (and the other trophy sites) clientele specifically. 

 

Not every person tracked on this site "plays" shovel-ware.... but virtually every person who does "play" shovel-ware is tracked on this site.

 

 

Shovelware is a problem borne of PSNP and its ilk, not Sony generally.

Those games exploit the trophy hunting mentality, not the general gaming one.

 

 

 

 

I used to agree with you, that the reason PSNP is the strongest site, (or one of the reasons, at least,) was the egalitarian nature of the site - that it wasn't exclusionary in any way - but TBH, that ship has sailed.

Sticking to a "we welcome every game, and all games are equal" mentality is all well and good, and admirable when it's only detractors are elitist fart-sniffers attacking any game that isn't a brutal slog to finish...

...but it loses it's lustre when things that aren't even games in any way, shape or form -  static screens with an X button, a fake moustache, and the word "game" written on a name tag and slapped onto them - become so prevalent that it becomes difficult to find an actual "game" amount the profiles that make up the top ends of the leaderboard.

 

 

 

You claim that if PSNP changed the rules, the site would see a mass exodus to the other sites. I used to agree - but I really doubt that is the case now.

If anything, I suspect every other site is simply looking at PSNP, as the current leader, to set a precedent. 

 

As I've said before, (and genuinely believe) - if any of the other sites were to declare all shovel ware "null and void" in terms of points values... they would likely see, not an exodus, but a stampede to them, from the other sites... and every other site would be struggling to implement the same rules as fast as possible, just to stem the exodus among their own clientele. 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with the ruling body of a game altering the rules, within reason, to ensure a clean game, sportsman-like behaviour, and the fun.

In fact, they have a duty to.

A parental duty - to protect the hobby they birthed.

 

The trophy sites created the hobby of trophy hunting.

 

Sony built the bricks and mortar, and provided the equipment...

....but the sites created the game.

 

They are the custodians of it.

They are the care-takers of it.

They are the ruling body enforcing the rules of it...

...and they alone have the responsibility for disinfecting the shovel-ware poison from it.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[LewyWilko93]

40 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

 

This argument is nonsense, and you know it.

 

 

While Sony is the custodian of the trophy system, as a nebulous entity - having created it and maintaining - the trophy tracking sites are the ones who are the custodians of "Trophy Hunting" as a specific hobby.

They they created that, not Sony.

 

Sony has never had its own leaderboards - that was the trophy sites that did that, and formed Sony's clay - a loose personal achievement system , into a regulated, somewhat uniformly accepted thing for their members to use and enjoy.

 

Sony is the manufacturers of the footballs... but the trophy sites are FIFA, regulating the rules of the game.

 

 

As the market leader among those trophy sites, PSNP is in a unique position to act, if/when the rules of the game have been exploited to an extent that a change in the rules is required / desired to ensure the game remains healthy.

 

 

If you truly think that PSNP, say, reducing the points value for "games" that it already deems to be "shovel ware" and of no value, would have no impact on the game - or a resulting impact on Sony's desires to to keep allowing them to release - you're either mad, or simply being wilfully ignorant.

 

These products are not to exploiting Sony's clientele generally - they are exploiting the contingent of Sony's clientele that forms PSNPs (and the other trophy sites) clientele specifically. 

 

Not every person tracked on this site "plays" shovel-ware.... but virtually every person who does "play" shovel-ware is tracked on this site.

 

 

Shovelware is a problem borne of PSNP and its ilk, not Sony generally.

Those games exploit the trophy hunting mentality, not the general gaming one.

 

 

 

 

I used to agree with you, that the reason PSNP is the strongest site, (or one of the reasons, at least,) was the egalitarian nature of the site - that it wasn't exclusionary in any way - but TBH, that ship has sailed.

Sticking to a "we welcome every game, and all games are equal" mentality is all well and good, and admirable when it's only detractors are elitist fart-sniffers attacking any game that isn't a brutal slog to finish...

...but it loses it's lustre when things that aren't even games in any way, shape or form -  static screens with an X button, a fake moustache, and the word "game" written on a name tag and slapped onto them - become so prevalent that it becomes difficult to find an actual "game" amount the profiles that make up the top ends of the leaderboard.

 

 

 

You claim that if PSNP changed the rules, the site would see a mass exodus to the other sites. I used to agree - but I really doubt that is the case now.

If anything, I suspect every other site is simply looking at PSNP, as the current leader, to set a precedent. 

 

As I've said before, (and genuinely believe) - if any of the other sites were to declare all shovel ware "null and void" in terms of points values... they would likely see, not an exodus, but a stampede to them, from the other sites... and every other site would be struggling to implement the same rules as fast as possible, just to stem the exodus among their own clientele. 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with the ruling body of a game altering the rules, within reason, to ensure a clean game, sportsman-like behaviour, and the fun.

In fact, they have a duty to.

A parental duty - to protect the hobby they birthed.

 

The trophy sites created the hobby of trophy hunting.

 

Sony built the bricks and mortar, and provided the equipment...

....but the sites created the game.

 

They are the custodians of it.

They are the care-takers of it.

They are the ruling body enforcing the rules of it...

...and they alone have the responsibility for disinfecting the shovel-ware poison from it.

 

expertly said. 

 

Truetrophies does it better. 

 

 

[GAchievements]

This will be my final post on this thread and forum. You are free to continue any other discussions here or anywhere else or you can contact us on Twitter should you wish to.

 

As people have mentioned, a lot are commenting on the the Sony approval system or any other part of their QA methods with very little knowledge of them.

 

If we wanted to release another 100 Stroke games, there is nothing to prevent us at this time, we simply do not wish to. We have 4 more approved games in the series (Cow is out now) and we simply do not wish to make any more, we have not registered any further titles into the content pipeline within the Sony systems within this series. That is out of choice and not requirement. We do have one other easier style game that has been approved that will release but no more after that. (Singular not plural).

 

As mentioned previously, we have additional games in the works but they are more fully fleshed and so are of course taking longer to come out.

 

We are not looking for approval or forgiveness. Just saying where we are.

 

For those asking, the PSNP community makes up a very small percentage of our sales, so this was not about trying to save face or to make money. The shovelware filter did nothing to the overall sales in the grand scheme of things so that won't discourage other developers, it simply makes the site here look a bit nicer which I am all for.

 

Anyway, I leave you all and as I said, should you wish to ask us anything, Twitter is there and we will try to respond.

[LewyWilko93]

11 minutes ago, GAchievements said:

 

For those asking, the PSNP community makes up a very small percentage of our sales, so this was not about trying to save face or to make money. The shovelware filter did nothing to the overall sales in the grand scheme of things so that won't discourage other developers, it simply makes the site here look a bit nicer which I am all for.

 

 

 

Didn't they say they didn't know about their sale statistics and that is why they couldn't provide any further information...

 

[Sgznr]

7 minutes ago, LewyWilko93 said:

 

Didn't they say they didn't know about their sale statistics and that is why they couldn't provide any further information...

 

 

Yeah but it's all rubbish. TJ knows exactly what he and his cronies are doing.

They are just trying to save face and make sales.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Sgznr

[GothGirlMaxine]

3 hours ago, GAchievements said:

This will be my final post on this thread and forum.

I look forward to seeing your 4th company crop up one day so we can do this again ?

[D-E-U-S-X]

5 hours ago, GAchievements said:

For those asking, the PSNP community makes up a very small percentage of our sales, so this was not about trying to save face or to make money.

Probably a similar percentage as your platinums?

[fresquinho]

On 25/11/2022 at 10:20 AM, GAchievements said:

Good morning, I wanted to make a little thread as an open letter to the community and to allow a little more insight into what we are doing at Game Achievements Ltd.

 

Firstly I will get the rather large elephant out of the room. We have made shovelware, this is not something that we deny and it is not something that we are going to dispute, it is however something that we have learnt from.

 

The "Stroke The" games were low effort "games" created by us, reasons behind their creation vary but ultimately that makes no difference, they were made in a way that they should not have been. For that we are sorry for clogging up certain sections and the PSN store as a whole (obviously we were not alone in that one).

 

We do not however believe in removing history, we do believe in improvement and that is what we are going to be focusing on. We won't be removing the Stroke The games from the market, we will however be adding to them to ensure that there is additional content within the games, making them more than just a press X game. This fan be seen with the addition of the Quiz sections, with more to come adding additional gameplay elements. In order to ensure that there is more value.

 

Going forward we will not be releasing any further easy platinums, having said that, we have 5 additional stroke games already approved and one additional easy game that will release, but we will ensure that they also have additional content fleshing out the games added to them.

 

We have a number of games in the work which will release next year, these will be full titles which actually require effort and includes gameplay in order to complete.

 

Once again, we apologies for the games we have put out so far and will continue to work on them to get them to a more acceptable level.

 

We are open to your suggestions and comments but will not be responding to simply negative comments, negativity with construction is ok as that is how we learn.

 

Thanks for your time and hopefully we will be able to prove that we are a little more than just a shovelware creator.

 

This dude was roasted by PlatinumBro on Youtube LMFAO. Love it.

[JohnCenaSong-]

 

18 hours ago, GAchievements said:

This will be my final post on this thread and forum.

 

Good riddance, anything you've typed out over here is demonstrably nonsense as pointed out by a couple folk and you're about as trustworthy as Peter Molyneux. No one's really interested in what you've got to say on the matter, the communities assumptions about you turned out to be true so that's that, done and dusted, we don't need really anything more from you (not that you'd give us a truthful response anyway).

 

18 hours ago, GAchievements said:

For those asking, the PSNP community makes up a very small percentage of our sales, so this was not about trying to save face or to make money. The shovelware filter did nothing to the overall sales in the grand scheme of things so that won't discourage other developers, it simply makes the site here look a bit nicer which I am all for.

Stick to one story. You either know the sale figures or you don't.

 

Last time I called you out because I looked up your figures myself via official sources and you doubled down and tried to claim my sources must be wrong and that you genuinely have no idea... Now you claim to know your figures so intimately that you can decipher just how impactful PSNP allegedly isn't to your bottom-line.

 

Well, now we have it out in the open that you do indeed know the numbers would you like to save some face by answering the question someone asked you a couple pages back, what's your numbers at? ? or did you just so happen to lose the figures last night, dog ate 'em, whoops

 

It'll be interesting to see if Sony actually gives a damn really and that maybe slowly it becomes the end of your spam (I know it won't happen overnight, if it truly does at all) but I'll be especially interested to see how you'd try to loophole any potential restrictions and yet also try to somehow demonstrate that your claim to move on from shovelware is honest.

 

You know for that claim to work out you'll actually need to make a game at some point too, right? As someone who has experience in game development myself, it ain't as quick and easy as making these little 'apps' you've been making in a couple hours. Even the most basic of games, like a barebones platformer, is going to take you some actual effort. Looking at your previous work prior to GA Ltd. I don't expect you'd be willing to put in that kind of effort so if the shovelware gravy train does come to an end I suspect you'll just dissolve the business and move on to the next thing.

[SlippingJimy]

On 21/12/2022 at 8:38 AM, visvoer18 said:

jeez most people respnonding  here are just nasty. first off he comes out  to admit what they did and admitting to being better none of the other  companies so far did that just for that he deserves some praise.

 

also its so funny everyone high and mighty here blaming the devs and publishers  but look in the mirror  the people who BOUGHT said games are the reason those games got even made in the first place.

 

yeah most likely the reason he comes out is due sony changing policies however  where are all the other devs who are doing the same thing?  I dont see them apoligizing here.

 

also it might be hard to believe for some people here but some people actualy enjoy those garbage games. not saying its the majority but I know a few who do.

 

realy shows  how much hypocrites are here and people who think their oppinion is the right one period. wel newsflash thats NOT how it works

 

Yes that's what I was trying to say, don't be nasty, I am one of the first to dunk on spam developers and hate these press X spam games. But at least game achievements had the balls to post this to take the heat for all  the spam Devs who have been abusing the system for longer. Where are they in all of this, dont hear a Peep. Too busy making bank and trying to work out how to skirt around Sony's new policies so they can continue operations.

 

When I used the word Kudos in my last post that was probably a bad choice of words. Apologize on that one, definitely not defending them in anyway.

Edited December 22, 2022 by SlipingJimmy

[AJ_Radio]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:21 AM, LewyWilko93 said:

 

Didn't they say they didn't know about their sale statistics and that is why they couldn't provide any further information...

 

Wasn’t expecting to see you here PlatinumBro7. Still watch your videos, enjoy the commentary you make on them. 
 

There’s other sites like TrueTrophies, PSNTrophyLeaders and PST.org, but outside of Twitter and Discord, PSNProfiles as far as I’m aware is the most popular trophy website in existence. Most people just use PSNP for checking and updating their profiles, we’re a very small minority on the forums. 
 

The trophy system, while heavily flawed, is likely here to stay. @HusKy has done a marvelous job with PSNP+ which is great for people like me who enjoy statistics. 
 

On 12/21/2022 at 1:08 AM, GAchievements said:

This will be my final post on this thread and forum. You are free to continue any other discussions here or anywhere else or you can contact us on Twitter should you wish to.

 

As people have mentioned, a lot are commenting on the the Sony approval system or any other part of their QA methods with very little knowledge of them.

 

If we wanted to release another 100 Stroke games, there is nothing to prevent us at this time, we simply do not wish to. We have 4 more approved games in the series (Cow is out now) and we simply do not wish to make any more, we have not registered any further titles into the content pipeline within the Sony systems within this series. That is out of choice and not requirement. We do have one other easier style game that has been approved that will release but no more after that. (Singular not plural).

 

As mentioned previously, we have additional games in the works but they are more fully fleshed and so are of course taking longer to come out.

 

We are not looking for approval or forgiveness. Just saying where we are.

 

For those asking, the PSNP community makes up a very small percentage of our sales, so this was not about trying to save face or to make money. The shovelware filter did nothing to the overall sales in the grand scheme of things so that won't discourage other developers, it simply makes the site here look a bit nicer which I am all for.

 

Anyway, I leave you all and as I said, should you wish to ask us anything, Twitter is there and we will try to respond.

 

This entire post is nonsense. You knew exactly what you got into when you decided to release this crap. 
 

You capitalized on a hobby to try to get some money and this influx of spam games is probably why Hakoom finally had to back off and take a breather. I don’t think most anyone outside of trophy hunting cares one bit about these shovelware games which means a small minority of us who hunt trophies are the target audience.

 

You want respect, stick to making and publishing actual games. You make Ratalaika look like saints and that’s saying something. 
 

Quit flooding the store with trash. You along with others started this gravy train back in 2017 - 2018 and I’m glad to see people are finally calling you out.

[CB7Tuner91]

I'm just so glad these games are coming to an end. Not just the Stroke games, but all of them. It has forever damaged the quality of the leaderboards. Never have bought any of these and I never will. I firstly play games for enjoyment not just for trophies.

[Rozalia1]

On 21/12/2022 at 9:08 AM, GAchievements said:

This will be my final post on this thread and forum. You are free to continue any other discussions here or anywhere else or you can contact us on Twitter should you wish to.

 

As people have mentioned, a lot are commenting on the the Sony approval system or any other part of their QA methods with very little knowledge of them.

 

If we wanted to release another 100 Stroke games, there is nothing to prevent us at this time, we simply do not wish to. We have 4 more approved games in the series (Cow is out now) and we simply do not wish to make any more, we have not registered any further titles into the content pipeline within the Sony systems within this series. That is out of choice and not requirement. We do have one other easier style game that has been approved that will release but no more after that. (Singular not plural).

 

As mentioned previously, we have additional games in the works but they are more fully fleshed and so are of course taking longer to come out.

 

We are not looking for approval or forgiveness. Just saying where we are.

 

For those asking, the PSNP community makes up a very small percentage of our sales, so this was not about trying to save face or to make money. The shovelware filter did nothing to the overall sales in the grand scheme of things so that won't discourage other developers, it simply makes the site here look a bit nicer which I am all for.

 

Anyway, I leave you all and as I said, should you wish to ask us anything, Twitter is there and we will try to respond.

 

Not followed the thread but looking at that screenshot you posted it does seem like you are indeed putting in some extra effort which is good. What @Taruta13 said I think is something you could very well give some consideration. I'm not sure what business sense it makes ultimately, but there is nothing wrong with having a game out there for young children. Could be a nice start to build yourself up for other projects.

[AJ_Radio]

11 hours ago, CB7Tuner91 said:

I'm just so glad these games are coming to an end. Not just the Stroke games, but all of them. It has forever damaged the quality of the leaderboards. Never have bought any of these and I never will. I firstly play games for enjoyment not just for trophies.

 

About five years more or less. Stuff like Little Adventure on the Prairie basically helped kickstart the shoveltrain crap.

[visvoer18]

On 22-12-2022 at 6:23 AM, SlipingJimmy said:

 

Yes that's what I was trying to say, don't be nasty, I am one of the first to dunk on spam developers and hate these press X spam games. But at least game achievements had the balls to post this to take the heat for all  the spam Devs who have been abusing the system for longer. Where are they in all of this, dont hear a Peep. Too busy making bank and trying to work out how to skirt around Sony's new policies so they can continue operations.

 

When I used the word Kudos in my last post that was probably a bad choice of words. Apologize on that one, definitely not defending them in anyway.

yeah and also so annoying they blame the devs for the msot part first of sony is MORE in the wrong for allowing it in the first place after that the buyers and after them the devs.

 

honestly if I knew how oot progrm and get games on psn and I could make an few 1000 bucks every 2 days in an legal way  most likely I would do it as well.

 

people take this way too serieus your collecting digital things  that dont even serve any purpose asside from showing your e penis. yet people treath him like he commited a murder.

 

realy shows how toxic this community as a whole is in a lot of ways.

 

especialy since most people in this tread say stguff  thats just bs and they would have known if they spent a few seconds thinking it trough

[JohnCenaSong-]

47 minutes ago, visvoer18 said:

yeah and also so annoying they blame the devs for the msot part first of sony is MORE in the wrong for allowing it in the first place after that the buyers and after them the devs.

This feels completelt backwards. Of course people are going to blame the devs/publishers first, they're the ones actively creating the supply and targeting in this way. Let's look at a different and more serious subject and apply that same logic. So, you say the problem is more from those who buy into it and those who allowed it to happen unchallenged first and foremost.

 

Okay, so drug dealers aren't a real problem, it's primarily the lack of police prevention/regulation and drug addicts that should get all the shame and we just should go easy on drug dealers? They're just trying to make an honest wage ay? Totally not morally bankrupt cashing in on and actively targeting people who clearly have underlying issues.

 

I guess you also see no issue in actively targeting gambling ads to gambling addicts, having companies load up alcohol anonymous meeting centers with alcoholic vending machines. Just totally innocent 'legal' money making there ay? Nothing wrong with that right... It's those filthy addicts that deserve our scorn.

 

Though people don't like to point it out because of the stigma and self denial from those who would actually relate among the community, there's actually a large correlation between those who are addicted in some fashion to the trophy system and those who'd be considered 'neurodivergent' or whatever the supposed politically correct term is nowadays. It must make you feel so superior to look down on those with conditions that make them more predisposed to become victims of this kind of cash grab behaviour. But let's just continue to hate and blame them instead of the companies actively committed to making a quick buck out if it.

 

I know it's not as serious at all to the examples of drugs, alcohol and gambling that I compared and heck even compared to lootboxes/microtransactions it's not as much of a potentially heavy financial burden either to be suckered in so the damage is admittedly much much less but that lack of severity doesn't, in my opinion, detract from whether they are or aren't addicts/victims.

 

People who buy into easy trophies are exploited victims and sure Sony deserve some heat for doing nothing and turning a blind eye as they do hold some responsibility (and to some degree PSNP does too as the primary site to much of the 'hardcore' community/audience for these 'games') but ultimately the studios who actively decided to prey on it to make a quick buck and created the supply should be at the top of the list to blame in my view.

 

Not to say they should be bullied or harassed, but we can't go around acting as if they're somehow the smallest offender here. I've maybe been a tad harsh on GA Ltd in this thread myself but not because I actively have any passionate hate or disdain towards them really and I don't really have strong views on trophy hunting subjects generally as I'm a bit of an outsider (I don't hunt trophies). The only reason I was quite firm and rough with the guy is because he would lie numerous times in the thread. Claiming to have 'changed' but admits to still carrying on doing much of the same with minor 'additions' (at least in the meantime until this supposed 'actual game' takes shape), claiming to not have various figures that I dug up for myself and then contradicted themselves by saying PSNP isn't responsible for much of their numbers (you either know or you don't... make your mind up) and also there was a point about changing trophy requirements which demonstrably has happened numerous times from both influential AAA publishers who may have more sway and small indies who are still able to make those changes. In fact, that process in part overlaps with how many glitches trophies end up getting fixed... I am willing to be confrontational to a liar, but I hold no true malice towards them in honesty.

 

It feels weird you also mention that this somehow shows the toxicity of the community for blaming the devs/holding them accountable when you're preferring to blame victims/addicts ahead of them could even come across pretty toxic in of itself, especially combined with you admitting if you were capable of doing it yourself you would also be willing to cash in on it just the same.

 

If anything, if you want to talk about the type of toxicity I see around here on PSNP is much more on that side of the fence, ruthlessly attacking people and their profiles for being full of shovelware and giving the devs/publishers a free pass under the idea of 'well if people didn't buy it...'

 

People were probably too generous in their defence of Ratalaika (which is where this all really goes back to). Whilst their games are actual, well, games they as a publisher were notoriously low on quality control which led to a mixed bag of released and they transparently used the trophy list and stacks as incentives to milk the most out of the trophy addicts of the time. Whilst their games sold fine on other platforms without achievements such as Switch versions so their entire business model didn't depend entirely on it and they had some genuinely decent titles under their belts as well I feel they were the ones truly tested the boundaries of the system to set the groundwork to open up the floodgates. But, because some of the games were good and they sold okay on other platforms people would flock to their defence whenever anyone dared to hint they may be starting a problem and just attacked the people who chose to do all the stacks as if they were the problems and were circumventing the system. Even though Ratalaika themselves had actively advertised/boasted within the community about stack numbers on upcoming releases at the time.

 

It's funny to see some of those older posts with hindsight, people were pointing out that the trophy system and PS store would look exactly like it did end up and were told at the time they're being ridiculous and that it wasn't going to make that much of a difference and now look where we are. 

 

Nowadays though Ratalaika still get a free pass just purely because of contrast to what we have now. It's hard to sit there and look at Ratalaikas very worst game and tell me it's not a glorious 10/10 masterpiece of a game compared to the shovelware of today. 

[visvoer18]

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

This feels completelt backwards. Of course people are going to blame the devs/publishers first, they're the ones actively creating the supply and targeting in this way. Let's look at a different and more serious subject and apply that same logic. So, you say the problem is more from those who buy into it and those who allowed it to happen unchallenged first and foremost.

 

Okay, so drug dealers aren't a real problem, it's primarily the lack of police prevention/regulation and drug addicts that should get all the shame and we just should go easy on drug dealers? They're just trying to make an honest wage ay? Totally not morally bankrupt cashing in on and actively targeting people who clearly have underlying issues.

terrible example name 1 person who died by using these games to rank.

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

I guess you also see no issue in actively targeting gambling ads to gambling addicts, having companies load up alcohol anonymous meeting centers with alcoholic vending machines. Just totally innocent 'legal' money making there ay? Nothing wrong with that right... It's those filthy addicts that deserve our scorn.

YOU CHOOSE TO GAMBLE  no one is puting an gun to you heard forcing you to put money in the machines. honestly have a backbone. I am not saying the gambling companies are innocent  at all but dont say it isnt the gamblers fault  he makes the fucking choice to put money in the machine no one else.

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

Though people don't like to point it out because of the stigma and self denial from those who would actually relate among the community, there's actually a large correlation between those who are addicted in some fashion to the trophy system and those who'd be considered 'neurodivergent' or whatever the supposed politically correct term is nowadays. It must make you feel so superior to look down on those with conditions that make them more predisposed to become victims of this kind of cash grab behaviour. But let's just continue to hate and blame them instead of the companies actively committed to making a quick buck out if it.

LOL your being an hypocrite here. also I am not looking down on anyone I hold people accountable for what they do and blaming an condition for it is just the easy way out. I have certain conditions as well but unlike what you are trying to do here I dont use that as an excuse.

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

I know it's not as serious at all to the examples of drugs, alcohol and gambling that I compared and heck even compared to lootboxes/microtransactions it's not as much of a potentially heavy financial burden either to be suckered in so the damage is admittedly much much less but that lack of severity doesn't, in my opinion, detract from whether they are or aren't addicts/victims.

they have an choice  plain and simple

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

People who buy into easy trophies are exploited victims and sure Sony deserve some heat for doing nothing and turning a blind eye as they do hold some responsibility (and to some degree PSNP does too as the primary site to much of the 'hardcore' community/audience for these 'games') but ultimately the studios who actively decided to prey on it to make a quick buck and created the supply should be at the top of the list to blame in my view.

lol sony is allowing that crap on their platform  so its their fault  and while my dislike for psn is well known i cant blame them for this because  its not their fault psn profiles in this case has absolutly no guilt in this whatsoever

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

Not to say they should be bullied or harassed, but we can't go around acting as if they're somehow the smallest offender here. I've maybe been a tad harsh on GA Ltd in this thread myself but not because I actively have any passionate hate or disdain towards them really and I don't really have strong views on trophy hunting subjects generally as I'm a bit of an outsider (I don't hunt trophies). The only reason I was quite firm and rough with the guy is because he would lie numerous times in the thread. Claiming to have 'changed' but admits to still carrying on doing much of the same with minor 'additions' (at least in the meantime until this supposed 'actual game' takes shape), claiming to not have various figures that I dug up for myself and then contradicted themselves by saying PSNP isn't responsible for much of their numbers (you either know or you don't... make your mind up) and also there was a point about changing trophy requirements which demonstrably has happened numerous times from both influential AAA publishers who may have more sway and small indies who are still able to make those changes. In fact, that process in part overlaps with how many glitches trophies end up getting fixed... I am willing to be confrontational to a liar, but I hold no true malice towards them in honesty.

lol show me a lie then. I didnt see an lie youc an disagree with someone but an lie is something else you dug up info that he doesnt have? like what? also even if you did manage to dig up the data that doesnt mean he has that data. could he find said data since you could?

 

probatly but he might didnt know that  you could find that data that easy your speculating a lot here. speculating is fine  as long as its clear thet your speculating or assuming however you present it as facts here. and unless you are a mind reader I am pretty sure some of those things you  literrly cant know

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

It feels weird you also mention that this somehow shows the toxicity of the community for blaming the devs/holding them accountable when you're preferring to blame victims/addicts ahead of them could even come across pretty toxic in of itself, especially combined with you admitting if you were capable of doing it yourself you would also be willing to cash in on it just the same.

the community putting the sole blame for the most part  on the dev. also addicts make themself addicted  in 99% of the cases. you know drugs are addicting so if you take them YOUR WILLINGLY TAKE THE RISK  also drugs  are an real addiction you can die from using them and also stopping with them cold turkey. no one dies from trophies. and most people would  take easy money like that if its earned legal without hurting people. I have bills that need to be paid as well. I want some fun things for myself as well sometimes. if i can make a few grand with a few days of work legal and without hurting anyone why wouldnt I do it?  I am sure MOST people would. that they dont have the balls to admit it is on them though.

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

If anything, if you want to talk about the type of toxicity I see around here on PSNP is much more on that side of the fence, ruthlessly attacking people and their profiles for being full of shovelware and giving the devs/publishers a free pass under the idea of 'well if people didn't buy it...'

maybe look at my post history I adresses that as well in the past so again your just saying stuff here that you dont know ANYTHING about.

On 25-12-2022 at 10:50 PM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

People were probably too generous in their defence of Ratalaika (which is where this all really goes back to). Whilst their games are actual, well, games they as a publisher were notoriously low on quality control which led to a mixed bag of released and they transparently used the trophy list and stacks as incentives to milk the most out of the trophy addicts of the time. Whilst their games sold fine on other platforms without achievements such as Switch versions so their entire business model didn't depend entirely on it and they had some genuinely decent titles under their belts as well I feel they were the ones truly tested the boundaries of the system to set the groundwork to open up the floodgates. But, because some of the games were good and they sold okay on other platforms people would flock to their defence whenever anyone dared to hint they may be starting a problem and just attacked the people who chose to do all the stacks as if they were the problems and were circumventing the system. Even though Ratalaika themselves had actively advertised/boasted within the community about stack numbers on upcoming releases at the time.

 

It's funny to see some of those older posts with hindsight, people were pointing out that the trophy system and PS store would look exactly like it did end up and were told at the time they're being ridiculous and that it wasn't going to make that much of a difference and now look where we are. 

 

Nowadays though Ratalaika still get a free pass just purely because of contrast to what we have now. It's hard to sit there and look at Ratalaikas very worst game and tell me it's not a glorious 10/10 masterpiece of a game compared to the shovelware of today. 

so eaperently those ratalaika games werent that bad if they also sold on platforms without trophies. your literly attacking your own point here.

 

I agree those games a lot of times werent good or verry basic  still some people enjoy those games still

I despice a game as fortnight for example but just because I dont like it doesnt mean i have the right to be an ass about it to people who do like it.

[JohnCenaSong-]

6 hours ago, visvoer18 said:

terrible example name 1 person who died by using these games to rank.

I already said in my post I was not comparing severity, big or small an addict is an addict and those who make bank off an addict are just as scummy whether the person dies or whether the person just loses $1.

 

6 hours ago, visvoer18 said:

YOU CHOOSE TO GAMBLE  no one is puting an gun to you heard forcing you to put money in the machines. honestly have a backbone. I am not saying the gambling companies are innocent  at all but dont say it isnt the gamblers fault  he makes the fucking choice to put money in the machine no one else.

 

LOL your being an hypocrite here. also I am not looking down on anyone I hold people accountable for what they do and blaming an condition for it is just the easy way out. I have certain conditions as well but unlike what you are trying to do here I dont use that as an excuse.

Not one ounce of hypocrisy at all.

 

And personal responsibility is one thing, but trying to shame or direct most the blame to the victim or the 'sucker', however you want to view it doesn't deflect from the fact that the person actively making the decision to create this is ultimately the main offender here. All decisions you make in life come with risks and personal responsibility and no one forces you to take them. If I decide against my better judgement to walk down a notorious alleyway at night because I'm too lazy to take the long way around and I get attacked I will happily concede that in that moment I made a judgement error and some of that responsibility is on me but let's not kid ourselves to say that I am more to blame than my attacker... People nowadays seem so obsessed with victim blaming and I feel like that's in part in a response to the 'victim culture' where people want to blame everyone else for their problems. A scumbag is a scumbag though whether you think their target is 'asking for it' or not, I don't know why this is something that even needs explaining.

6 hours ago, visvoer18 said:

lol sony is allowing that crap on their platform  so its their fault  and while my dislike for psn is well known i cant blame them for this because  its not their fault psn profiles in this case has absolutly no guilt in this whatsoever

Absolutely, both Sony and PSNP hold some responsibility. Sony is obviously the authority here, but even so, I'd still rank the developers above them still. This is like putting all your blame the government for not regulating hard enough on something. Whilst I absolutely think Sony and PSNP could have stepped in and took some action, supposedly 'do the right thing' to hurt the shovelware companies and disincentivise them, the guys making it could have also... well... stopped being scumbags on their own accord... y'know, the whole personal responsibility, they didn't have a gun to their head to keep doing it, sound familiar?

 

Like c'mon, I don't need laws telling me not to murder or policemen to monitor my every move because I can control myself not to murder random people by my own accord. Personal responsibility or not, if you're conciously making a decision to specifically target and prey on someone who's vulnerable for any number of reasons whether it be an insignificant little trophy addiction or scamming old ladies I can't justifiably consider anyone else but the perpetrators at top of the list for the blame/responsibility of those bad things going down.

 

6 hours ago, visvoer18 said:

lol show me a lie then. I didnt see an lie youc an disagree with someone but an lie is something else you dug up info that he doesnt have? like what? also even if you did manage to dig up the data that doesnt mean he has that data. could he find said data since you could?

 

probatly but he might didnt know that  you could find that data that easy your speculating a lot here. speculating is fine  as long as its clear thet your speculating or assuming however you present it as facts here. and unless you are a mind reader I am pretty sure some of those things you  literrly cant know

I already did, I summed up 3 of many outright lies that you can literally go back through this and find because they directly contradicted themselves!

 

He said he didn't have the info, then when trying to suggest that PSNP doesn't contribute massively to their sales that's an outright admission they clearly DO know their sales, and not just loosely, they've analysed them well enough to figure out that apparently PSNP isn't that influential. Which is it? It wasn't that I knew and he claimed he didn't, yes that made me believe he's lying but you're right because he could have just been incompetent and not know his own numbers... But then he literally just posted effectively admitted to knowing them all along with that more recent post...

 

The other example, the apparent regret and wanting to improve and stop shovelware and then stating that they have more upcoming shovelware that was approved. If you wanted to stop you would stop, there's no gun to their head saying to continue to release those extra pieces of shovelware in progress... So, another pretty blatant lie.

 

Stating outright that you cannot change trophy requirements. Granted maybe Sony would refuse to give them the attention to do that, but that's between them and Sony and that isn't how it works globally on PlayStation and this is evident by, I dunno, the dozens of games that have done so in the past like I pointed out, or the quite well documented processes some developers go through in order to fix certain trophies. I could chalk this up to maybe them being unclear rather than lying and maybe they just meant to say they personally couldn't do that, but with that track record it's hard to gain trust exactly.

 

Now these points don't matter, I don't care personally if he stops or keeps going, I don't care what his financial figures are, I don't care if he can change requirements. But those 3 examples are proven lies demonstrated in the duration of this thread alone. If you want me to dig deeper I'm sure I could find more contradictions and lies.

 

And for your convenience:

Here's the first contradiction -

On 25/11/2022 at 10:20 AM, GAchievements said:

Going forward we will not be releasing any further easy platinums

 

On 25/11/2022 at 10:20 AM, GAchievements said:

we have 5 additional stroke games already approved and one additional easy game that will release

 

Here's the second -

On 25/11/2022 at 7:10 PM, GAchievements said:

As for number sold, I cannot say, not that I don't want to but simply that we do not know atm, happy to give numbers once we do know though.

 

On 21/12/2022 at 9:08 AM, GAchievements said:

the PSNP community makes up a very small percentage of our sales, so this was not about trying to save face or to make money. The shovelware filter did nothing to the overall sales

 

And finally the third one which is easily disproven with a quick search, pretty common knowledge this is bs and I wasn't the only one to point it out:

On 27/11/2022 at 4:32 PM, GAchievements said:

Cannot change trophy requirements as per policies. Hence the additional content added. The learn about dogs part will be your "story".

 

So, I mean, they've demonstrably lied. Big or small, that's just in this thread alone... There's also a couple comments that sound a tad suspicious but I'm not going to speculate on those.

 

6 hours ago, visvoer18 said:

so eaperently those ratalaika games werent that bad if they also sold on platforms without trophies. your literly attacking your own point here.

 

I agree those games a lot of times werent good or verry basic  still some people enjoy those games still

I despice a game as fortnight for example but just because I dont like it doesnt mean i have the right to be an ass about it to people who do like it.

Wasn't really my point with Ratalaika. I was saying that people overlooked that they were leveraging the trophy system to exploit the trophy addicts under the assumption that just because they sold elsewhere that Ratalaika were somehow innocent in all this and not clearly making a targeted effort to milk as much as possible, especially with trophy list stacks (which as I pointed out they actively boasted and advertised, why would a non trophy addict need to buy the game multiple times from multiple different regions for multiple trophy lists? Their intent was transparent, release as many games as possible with as many lists as possible regardless of quality)

 

Shovelware sold on the Wii, shovelware sold on the PS2, shovelware sells on Steam... They are still dreadful shovelware, trophies or no trophies. Me saying they sold on other systems is not some admission of quality. I said that SOME (that's the keyword here) of their titles were decent little indie games but they were still a publisher with low quality control which lead to a fair amount that would certainly count as shovelware. They had some success selling their shovelware elsewhere and a handful of their games could even be considered good and sold on their own merits but that doesn't make them innocent, that's all I was really mentioning them for.

 

Ratalaika helped popularise this trend and so it's only fair they're not discounted from the conversation. They may be considered 'mild' nowadays but that's only in contrast to how much worse it got. If I shit on your doorstep one day and you get mad and clear it up, then tomorrow a group of 10 people who saw me do that decided they'll shit on your doorstep and smear it all over your windows does that suddenly make it okay that in shat on your doorstep? Just 'cus it got even worse doesn't make the original problem not a problem, please don't just let me get away with shitting on your doorstep .

[visvoer18]

5 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

I already said in my post I was not comparing severity, big or small an addict is an addict and those who make bank off an addict are just as scummy whether the person dies or whether the person just loses $1.

 

Not one ounce of hypocrisy at all.

 

And personal responsibility is one thing, but trying to shame or direct most the blame to the victim or the 'sucker', however you want to view it doesn't deflect from the fact that the person actively making the decision to create this is ultimately the main offender here. All decisions you make in life come with risks and personal responsibility and no one forces you to take them. If I decide against my better judgement to walk down a notorious alleyway at night because I'm too lazy to take the long way around and I get attacked I will happily concede that in that moment I made a judgement error and some of that responsibility is on me but let's not kid ourselves to say that I am more to blame than my attacker... People nowadays seem so obsessed with victim blaming and I feel like that's in part in a response to the 'victim culture' where people want to blame everyone else for their problems. A scumbag is a scumbag though whether you think their target is 'asking for it' or not, I don't know why this is something that even needs explaining.

Absolutely, both Sony and PSNP hold some responsibility. Sony is obviously the authority here, but even so, I'd still rank the developers above them still. This is like putting all your blame the government for not regulating hard enough on something. Whilst I absolutely think Sony and PSNP could have stepped in and took some action, supposedly 'do the right thing' to hurt the shovelware companies and disincentivise them, the guys making it could have also... well... stopped being scumbags on their own accord... y'know, the whole personal responsibility, they didn't have a gun to their head to keep doing it, sound familiar?

lol honestly so your like that huh? the man who made the gun is the one guilty of using it to kill? thats the logic you are using here.

 

in your alley example thats not on you  vecause alleys like that shouldnt even excist in the first place because those actualy hurt people. and honestly what can you blame those companies for they have an legal way to earn GOOD money while not hurting anyone. also in this case if they didnt do it others would have it would have happened either way since sony allowed it. its easy to say but its not the right thing to do which is true however they arent hurting anyone its good money and they are right if they wouldnt othhers would.

5 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

Like c'mon, I don't need laws telling me not to murder or policemen to monitor my every move because I can control myself not to murder random people by my own accord. Personal responsibility or not, if you're conciously making a decision to specifically target and prey on someone who's vulnerable for any number of reasons whether it be an insignificant little trophy addiction or scamming old ladies I can't justifiably consider anyone else but the perpetrators at top of the list for the blame/responsibility of those bad things going down.

honestly scamming old ladies is bad because people actualy suffer for it which isnt the case with trophies at all.

5 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

I already did, I summed up 3 of many outright lies that you can literally go back through this and find because they directly contradicted themselves!

 

He said he didn't have the info, then when trying to suggest that PSNP doesn't contribute massively to their sales that's an outright admission they clearly DO know their sales, and not just loosely,they've analysed them well enough to figure out that apparently PSNP isn't that influential. Which is it? It wasn't that I knew and he claimed he didn't, yes that made me believe he's lying but you're right because he could have just been incompetent and not know his own numbers... But then he literally just posted effectively admitted to knowing them all along with that more recent post...

good point that I missed but you are right here

5 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

The other example, the apparent regret and wanting to improve and stop shovelware and then stating that they have more upcoming shovelware that was approved. If you wanted to stop you would stop, there's no gun to their head saying to continue to release those extra pieces of shovelware in progress... So, another pretty blatant lie.

not perse I explained this already they are already approved by sony  most likely so it already scheduled etc we both dont know if they can still cancel it and if yes how much work it is etc so honestly you cant use this argument because you dont know enough about it

5 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

Stating outright that you cannot change trophy requirements. Granted maybe Sony would refuse to give them the attention to do that, but that's between them and Sony and that isn't how it works globally on PlayStation and this is evident by, I dunno, the dozens of games that have done so in the past like I pointed out, or the quite well documented processes some developers go through in order to fix certain trophies. I could chalk this up to maybe them being unclear rather than lying and maybe they just meant to say they personally couldn't do that, but with that track record it's hard to gain trust exactly.

bug fixxes for trophies  is not the same as changing the requirements. also it would give an unfair advantage to people who already got those trophies in the past. and also changing trophy requirements is an rare thing  it doesnt happen a lot and honestly (I am assuming this) I dont think  sony would allow it on thisc scale for this ammount of games. this MIGHT be a lie from them or misinformation but again we dont have the knowledge to make that conclussion.

5 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

Now these points don't matter, I don't care personally if he stops or keeps going, I don't care what his financial figures are, I don't care if he can change requirements. But those 3 examples are proven lies demonstrated in the duration of this thread alone. If you want me to dig deeper I'm sure I could find more contradictions and lies.

 

And for your convenience:

Here's the first contradiction -

 

 

Here's the second -

 

 

And finally the third one which is easily disproven with a quick search, pretty common knowledge this is bs and I wasn't the only one to point it out:

 

So, I mean, they've demonstrably lied. Big or small, that's just in this thread alone... There's also a couple comments that sound a tad suspicious but I'm not going to speculate on those.

 

Wasn't really my point with Ratalaika. I was saying that people overlooked that they were leveraging the trophy system to exploit the trophy addicts under the assumption that just because they sold elsewhere that Ratalaika were somehow innocent in all this and not clearly making a targeted effort to milk as much as possible, especially with trophy list stacks (which as I pointed out they actively boasted and advertised, why would a non trophy addict need to buy the game multiple times from multiple different regions for multiple trophy lists? Their intent was transparent, release as many games as possible with as many lists as possible regardless of quality)

that stacking of regions was an thing long before ratalaike took advantage of that just look at saints row 3 it has 2 lists and there are more examples of that. ratalaike did take advantage of it to get some extra sales also true but honestly I dont think you could blame them for it. I think if you wanna be fair limited run games actualy did it before ratalaike even with some of their physicals havving an seperate trophy list  like 1 way heroics.

5 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

Shovelware sold on the Wii, shovelware sold on the PS2, shovelware sells on Steam... They are still dreadful shovelware, trophies or no trophies. Me saying they sold on other systems is not some admission of quality. I said that SOME (that's the keyword here) of their titles were decent little indie games but they were still a publisher with low quality control which lead to a fair amount that would certainly count as shovelware. They had some success selling their shovelware elsewhere and a handful of their games could even be considered good and sold on their own merits but that doesn't make them innocent, that's all I was really mentioning them for.

you missed the point i was trying to make here I am not saying its not shovelware i said that even though you consider it shovelware there are people who actualy enjoy those games shovelware or not and buy them for that reason. and to be fair some shovelware games I played I did enjoy myself.

5 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

Ratalaika helped popularise this trend and so it's only fair they're not discounted from the conversation. They may be considered 'mild' nowadays but that's only in contrast to how much worse it got. If I shit on your doorstep one day and you get mad and clear it up, then tomorrow a group of 10 people who saw me do that decided they'll shit on your doorstep and smear it all over your windows does that suddenly make it okay that in shat on your doorstep? Just 'cus it got even worse doesn't make the original problem not a problem, please don't just let me get away with shitting on your doorstep .

rata definitly helped in this trend I 100% agree with that. however doesnt change the fact they didnt hurt anyone doing it.

 

and your shit example trust me I am not someone you would wanna do that with because i have verry little to lose  and if i found out it would be you  I let you do it again and then smash your face in it and make you clean it with your tongue. I would also record it on video and if you then decided to ever do it again I would upload a viral video:P

 

and in case your stroonger then me dont worry I would hire help

 

all jokes asside I get your point but just disagree with it because no one gets hurt by this like I stated multiple times already

 

finaly a request if we continue on the subject  can we pelase make the posts not as long because the thing with long posts like this and adressing everything for me at least is that I lose oversight and might repeat myself forget to adres something etc

[GAchievements]

 

6 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

I already did, I summed up 3 of many outright lies that you can literally go back through this and find because they directly contradicted themselves!

 

 

I know I know, I am posting after I said I wont and this will be my last but as you are outright accusing me of lying, I will go over a few rather complex ideas that you may not quite have a full grasp of yet.

 

6 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

He said he didn't have the info, then when trying to suggest that PSNP doesn't contribute massively to their sales that's an outright admission they clearly DO know their sales, and not just loosely, they've analysed them well enough to figure out that apparently PSNP isn't that influential. Which is it? It wasn't that I knew and he claimed he didn't, yes that made me believe he's lying but you're right because he could have just been incompetent and not know his own numbers... But then he literally just posted effectively admitted to knowing them all along with that more recent post...

I admit that this can be quite difficult to understand, but have you heard of a thing called time? It is a constant and is something that we use to calculate, seconds, minutes, days, weeks and even years.

 

The post stating that we do not have numbers was on 25th November 2022, the post stating that we now have numbers was on 21st December 2022, can you see what I am getting at here? If not, I will explain. A certain amount of time, namely 26 days have passed between comments, can you understand that within those 26 days, we may have been provided some additional information? Namely a sales report of November 30th? Or you still under the belief that you cannot receive new information, you are stuck with whatever your original comment was with no ability to gain additional information? That is how your understanding seems to be.

 

Secondly, you stated that you had all the information on our sales, multiple times, yet have never been able to provide it. Information on the business, yeah that's public domain and yet shows nothing to do with the data on our sales that you claim to have. So can you post them? If not I suggest that you stop mentioning it as it only makes you look like the liar rather than us.

 

6 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

Stating outright that you cannot change trophy requirements. Granted maybe Sony would refuse to give them the attention to do that, but that's between them and Sony and that isn't how it works globally on PlayStation and this is evident by, I dunno, the dozens of games that have done so in the past like I pointed out, or the quite well documented processes some developers go through in order to fix certain trophies. I could chalk this up to maybe them being unclear rather than lying and maybe they just meant to say they personally couldn't do that, but with that track record it's hard to gain trust exactly.

 

You are obviously commenting on something that you have very little knowledge about and what is actually required to change trophy requirements. We attempted the change and were simply told that we would need the waiver as previously posted. This requires a few hoops to go through and not something that we wanted to put our time into. you cannot simply change them and set them live. I would post the official reply from Sony regarding it but I am not allowed to. If the trophy was broken or not unlocking, then yes, very asy to change, but a fully functional one, no matter how easy requires a lot more to change.

 

Finally in regards to use stating that we will not release any further games but still have 5 more, I appreciate that the wording was not right, it should have ready that we will not develop any more but currently already have 5 approved. This was correct and still is, I am sure that the majority would of understood this rather than having to scream about people lying.

 

Anyway, this was my final post so, good night.

Edited December 27, 2022 by GAchievements