Xbox Is Cracking Down On Easy Achievements

[PalaceOfLove706]

Torinto is a good example on the first page of the new games list where the shovelware filter is being abused. 2 of the 4 stacks are marked shovelware. If the leaderboards filtered out shovelware only people in 2 regions would have their trophies count. That filter can’t be used. 

[Startyde]

Just now, SpaceIsDandy said:

 

Emotionally? You mean financially? Those .99 cent stacks add up fast!

 

Person A buys a $60 game

Person B buys 20 cheap games for $60

 

Somehow person B is looked down on as a gamer and trophy hunter despite having more of both. It's an odd point of view that has seeped into this hobby. 

 

But your primary point is valid, gaming is a very expensive luxury hobby so I don't judge anyone who buys anything within their means. 

[oswald41]

I only started buying them to compete with a friend to see who could get more platinums in a month he didn't know about those i think i spent around $500 before i stopped buying them 

[MonaSaxPayne]

8 minutes ago, Startyde said:

If you can't compete with others emotionally, stop trying. Pretend your trophy list is the only one on earth and compete against yourself and your own expectations in what you look for in gaming.

 

pretty much this

 

majority of the times the ppl who are crying over the InTeGrItY oF tHe LeAdErBoArD invariably come up with some alternative metric that miraculously places them higher based on what they like to play

 

[PIOTREK27-1982]

21 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

Source 1                                             Source 2

 

TL;DR: Xbox is updating the certification process and will fail games that can have their achievement list completed within a few hours of starting the game. The following are new rules:

• All achievements can be unlocked within a few minutes of starting the game
• Achievements do not represent a thorough exploration of or engagement with game content
• Achievements can be unlocked without any (or minimal) user input unless required as part of the core gameplay loop

 

I think this is something that has been needed for years on PSN, and wonder if Sony will follow suit. What are your thoughts?

That's bullshit. Microsoft can't even fix Gears of War games with broken achievements or Fable at that.

 

As for Sony they said they will remove shovelware games from PSN too but they are the part of the problem. They started good, with the likes of Super Stardust HD, Wipeout HD or Killzone 2. Now you can plat all their games on easy. If we really define games with trophies that require no effort to earn as shovelware we can put all their 1st party titles there too. It would be hilarious if they had section like that in PS Store. 

[SpaceIsDandy]

Just now, Startyde said:

 

 

Somehow person B is looked down on as a gamer and trophy hunter despite having more of both. It's an odd point of view that has seeped into this hobby.

 

Interesting point that technically shovelware gamer would have more games and more trophies and thus would be more gamer and trophy hunter than the rest of us ? probably wont catch on but its technically (the best kind) correct.

 

[Spike_Hostile17]

They should implement this at least for the visibility of the PS store. Too many sudoku and crossword games ...

For the rest, it's not our problem if some "players" wanna stack up 10 times the same crap games to get easy plats.

[x7251]

21 hours ago, Sunnyburrito said:

Really wish Sony would do the the same and have an actual quality control that works, it's a fucking nightmare in their store now, trying to filter sales is horrible as you have to swim through the literal shit to find the good games actually on sale...well kinda useless to boast that they are having 1000 games on sale when 60% are trash 5 minutes "games".

Thank God for Platprices.

 

This is also my main issue with the shovelware "games". Finding the real games on sale can be time consuming while browsing the sales trying to avoid the shovelware. I have to check the trophy lists on the games here on psnp to make sure they aren't 2-5 minutes cash grabs. 

 

36 minutes ago, SpaceIsDandy said:

 

Interesting point that technically shovelware gamer would have more games and more trophies and thus would be more gamer and trophy hunter than the rest of us probably wont catch on but its technically (the best kind) correct.

 

 

Sure if you consider spamming a button nonstop for 2-5 minutes a "game". 

Edited May 27, 2023 by x7251

[Merty]

36 minutes ago, SpaceIsDandy said:

 

Interesting point that technically shovelware gamer would have more games and more trophies and thus would be more gamer and trophy hunter than the rest of us probably wont catch on but its technically (the best kind) correct.

 

Not trying to sound like an elitist, but my Bleed 2 Platinum is more impressive than all of your trophies combined.

[SpaceIsDandy]

9 minutes ago, x7251 said:

 

This is also my main issue with the shovelware "games". Finding the real games on sale can be time consuming while browsing the sales trying to avoid the shovelware. I have to check the trophy lists on the games here on psnp to make sure they aren't 2-5 minutes cash grabs. 

 

 

Sure if you consider spamming a button nonstop for 2-5 minutes a "game". 

 

my opinon does not matter in this regard sony says they are games so they are?

 

3 minutes ago, Asuka_Spirits said:

Not trying to sound like an elitist, but my Bleed 2 Platinum is more impressive than all of your trophies combined.

 

would not expect anything better from someone whose profile is kobeni's car's owner smh my head. I'll have you know i worked really hard on little deviants and its not just UR because of an online trophy that has been glitched since last decade! 

[Merty]

1 minute ago, SpaceIsDandy said:

would not expect anything better from someone whose profile is kobeni's car's owner smh my head. I'll have you know i worked really hard on little deviants and its not just UR because of an online trophy that has been glitched since last decade! 

Such a nice response, lol. I was expecting you to be angry, now I just feel bad for posting that comment.

[disaster500]

1 hour ago, Startyde said:

It's like Mario Kart, who can get the highest rank in racing. 

 

The problem is, some of you are complaining that picking up a banana, or star or red shell is unfair and ruining the integrity of Kart Racing. You would never be caught using a red shell for a boost so noone should be allowed to. The purity of racing I tell you...THE PURITY!

That's a bad analogy. Lots of players do believe items are unfair, especially more competitive players. That's why there's an option to turn items off, so they can play in the way they like. I know the same thing applies to Crash Team Racing Nitro-Fueled, where very competitive players would organise no-item lobbies and only play in them.

 

But there's no option for players to "turn off" shovelware if they want to enjoy the leaderboards that way. Personally I'll never care about the leaderboards, but I imagine a lot of people wish shovelware wasn't the "meta", and would like a leaderboard with shovelware worth 0 points, or a rarity leaderboard etc.

[sepheroithisgod]

1 hour ago, Startyde said:

 

AH, I was so close to agreeing with you until you went off the rails.

 

Everyone is playing the same game with the same rules, with leaderboards as an aggregate of trophy totals...who can rank as high as they can with the most plats or trophy points. 

 

It's like Mario Kart, who can get the highest rank in racing. 

 

The problem is, some of you are complaining that picking up a banana, or star or red shell is unfair and ruining the integrity of Kart Racing. You would never be caught using a red shell for a boost so noone should be allowed to. The purity of racing I tell you...THE PURITY!

 

Do you see how insane that logic sounds?

 

If you can't compete with others emotionally, stop trying. Pretend your trophy list is the only one on earth and compete against yourself and your own expectations in what you look for in gaming.

I'm not sure this works as an analogy here as you are describing challenge runs in games (i.e completing a game with a specific rule in place that limits what the player can use).

 

And I think that's a great thing in gaming. If someone wants to do a challenge run where they beat FF7 without using Materia that's great, it's a subset of rules in a game that can greatly enhance the replayability of the game. No one would complain that it impacts the integrity of the vanilla playthrough, it's a unique experience.

 

But it's different for a leaderboard.

 

There's no denying that the rules of trophy hunting have changed since the system have been introduced. Originally, only AAA games could have plats and smaller games simply got a few trophies. Shovelware titles didn't exist back then. The worst thing people like to bring up is Terminator Salvation (an actually decent movie video game) or insert some Disney games. That system changed once Shovelware titles took over. It's no longer about playing games, it's about purchasing trophy applications.

 

Obviously, as the rules change, there should be multiple leaderboards to accommodate different groups. Again back to my comparison to speed running. You see separate leaderboards for those that use glitches and those that do not because they are very different ways of approaching the same kind of challenge, to beat the game as fast as possible.

 

In contrast, using shovelware (trophy applications) is a very different approach than playing a normal game like God of War, even though they accomplish the same task, popping trophies.

 

There's no reason both can't exist, but it's very clear you can't compete on the current leaderboard if you only play actual games.

[MonaSaxPayne]

13 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

There's no reason both can't exist, but it's very clear you can't compete on the current leaderboard if you only play actual games

 

this is the part I honestly don't get

 

the ppl talking about competing on the leaderboards weren't even high on it in the first place.. even before the advent of "mass shovelware"

 

and the top placements on the leaderboard were almost always teams anyway

 

this concept that the leaderboards are suddenly losing integrity is downright laughable

 

the goalpost for what types of trophies/games are shameful is always shifting... and it isn't a coincidence that whatever is trying to pass off as "integrity trophies" always leans towards the standards set by the ones who can't keep up

 

smells a lot like sour grapes

[NorthPaul93]

The genie is out of the bottle. Shovelware games are not going away, unless they outright ban all of them, which I don't think is going to happen.

[x7251]

1 hour ago, SpaceIsDandy said:

 

my opinon does not matter in this regard sony says they are games so they are?

 

 

Sony and those Shovelware developers know that some people are addicted to trophies, and will buy them just for the quick platinum trophy to pad their numbers. It's easy money for Sony, so of course they are going to approve them as "games". I would rather have any platinum in my trophy cabinet than 5,000 easy 2-5 minute shovelware platinums in my trophy list. Quality over quantity for me. 

[sepheroithisgod]

7 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

this is the part I honestly don't get

 

the ppl talking about competing on the leaderboards weren't even high on it in the first place.. even before the advent of "mass shovelware"

This is pretty simple, you don't have to rank high to want a fair competition. I know people definitely complained about things before shovelware, but nothing before ever had even close to the same impact that SHovelware titles do on the leaderboards today. It is not even comparable.

10 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

the goalpost for what types of trophies/games are shameful is always shifting... and it isn't a coincidence that whatever is trying to pass off as "integrity trophies" always leans towards the standards set by the ones who can't keep up

 

smells a lot like sour grapes

You're absolutely right, it isn't a coincidence. It's almost like people are complaining and have identified an exploit of the system and would like it to be closed or to also have an opportunity at it. Kind of like how not everyone can join a school sports team, so instead, they can play in a recreational league.

If you look at history, you may notice that all major reforms came because a majority formed that X is not right and needs to change.

 

Not realizing this is the sour scent you are smelling.

 

 

[SpaceIsDandy]

1 minute ago, sepheroithisgod said:

You're absolutely right, it isn't a coincidence. It's almost like people are complaining and have identified an exploit of the system and would like it to be closed or to also have an opportunity at it. Kind of like how not everyone can join a school sports team, so instead, they can play in a recreational league

 

 

 

An "exploit" that the "creators of the system" (sony) has approved of is not an exploit because you personalty disagree with it.

[sepheroithisgod]

Just now, SpaceIsDandy said:

 

An "exploit" that the "creators of the system" (sony) has approved of is not an exploit because you personalty disagree with it.

The leaderboards were not created by Sony...

[x7251]

11 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

This is pretty simple, you don't have to rank high to want a fair competition. I know people definitely complained about things before shovelware, but nothing before ever had even close to the same impact that SHovelware titles do on the leaderboards today. It is not even comparable.

You're absolutely right, it isn't a coincidence. It's almost like people are complaining and have identified an exploit of the system and would like it to be closed or to also have an opportunity at it. Kind of like how not everyone can join a school sports team, so instead, they can play in a recreational league.

If you look at history, you may notice that all major reforms came because a majority formed that X is not right and needs to change.

 

Not realizing this is the sour scent you are smelling.

 

 

 

Even before shovelware platinums existed, the trophy leaderboards mostly came down to which people had the most free time to get the most platinums and trophies. I wouldn't worry about trying to get to the top, just focus on playing games you enjoy. 

[MonaSaxPayne]

10 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

Kind of like how not everyone can join a school sports team, so instead, they can play in a recreational league.

 

so I'm not good enough to compete in the NBA, so the NBA should drop its draft standards to that of the local gym court so I can feel included/good about myself/elite?

 

sorry but the real world doesn't work that way

 

by all means, let @Sly Ripper implement as many leaderboards as possible (current, UR, completion ---> I'd personally like this one myself.. whatever other leaderboard subset u can come up with)

 

there's a big difference between advocating for inclusion so there's something for everyone, and ridiculing other ppl because u can't compete with them

[sepheroithisgod]

Just now, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

so I'm not good enough to compete in the NBA, so the NBA should drop its draft standards to that of the local gym court so I can feel included/good about myself/elite?

 

sorry but the real world doesn't work that way

 

by all means, let @Sly Ripper implement as many leaderboards as possible (current, UR, completion ---> I'd personally like this one myself.. whatever other leaderboard subset u can come up with)

 

there's a big difference between advocating for inclusion so there's something for everyone, and ridiculing other ppl because u can't compete with them

Dude, that's actually exactly how the world works today lol. Not everyone can join the MLB, that's why they have AAA, AA, and other tiers of baseball. You don't see stat comparisons between Hall of Famers and AAA prospects because there's no reason to compare the two. Or between a high school student and a college student. (Idk anything about the NBA, but know they have minor leagues as well). That's literally how it has always worked...

 

Also, I've never ridiculed anyone in this forum. I'm not sure why anyone asking for more options and inclusiveness would be considered an elitist, I would think it would be the opposite no?

[MonaSaxPayne]

9 minutes ago, sepheroithisgod said:

Dude, that's actually exactly how the world works today lol. Not everyone can join the MLB, that's why they have AAA, AA, and other tiers of baseball. You don't see stat comparisons between Hall of Famers and AAA prospects because there's no reason to compare the two. Or between a high school student and a college student. (Idk anything about the NBA, but know they have minor leagues as well). That's literally how it has always worked...

 

Also, I've never ridiculed anyone in this forum. I'm not sure why anyone asking for more options and inclusiveness would be considered an elitist, I would think it would be the opposite no?

 

????

 

if you're not smart enough to get into an Ivy League college.. u go to a regular college.. can't get into college either.. u go to a community college... u don't change the criteria of the Ivy League college so everyone can get in

 

in the real world there are varying options for ppl who have different... qualities/abilities

 

the current leaderboard is... and always has been.. about points,. plain and simple. the more games u can play in the shortest times will always put u at the top

 

that's why the trophy meta shifted from Disney games, to VNs, to rata region stacks, to shovelware now

 

points has nothing to do with quality, difficulty, rarity, any other metric

 

u can't clamor to change the leaderboard to fit your personal criteria just because u can't compete on points

 

and as I said in my previous post... I'm all for having other types of leaderboards.. but u (not SPECIFICALLY u).. ok lets say people... people shouldn't shame ppl who play the meta for points just because they can't/won't compete for points 

 

there's nothing wrong with having differences of opinion.. or trying to advocate change from undesirable situations... but is it necessary to insult others to do it?

 

again.. that last part isn't directed at u specifically.... but there are many wanna be elitists on here who do exactly that. 

 

 

 

[Knightrider634]

I hope PlayStation follows suit as I think people who get a wack of quick shovelware platinums are not real trophy hunters 

[PalaceOfLove706]

For people who have reached level 999, the leaderboard is the only spot to see your current rank. Can’t start removing points and ruining the ranks for everybody.