[Feature request] Give OP (original poster) the means to further moderate their forum threads

[ryuji_sakujo]

@Sly Ripper
Feature request: Give OP (original poster) the means to further moderate their forum threads.

eg. Let us remove posts by other members.

We're allowed to lock posts, and we can report posts too, but it's not enough, please let us also remove posts in threads (that the OP has created) that just bloat or derail the topic (there are countless examples of this happening). Would make for a cleaner, less bloated and more useful forum and also teach this community some manners when it comes to butting in and derailing topics, it just happens too often.

 

EDIT:
If people feel concerned about getting censored.. then it's fine to keep a log and see what messages got deleted by the author.
That would also deter new users from making the same posts.

Edited June 12, 2023 by ryuji_sakujo

[Abby_TheLastofUs]

This would be a disaster.

[ryuji_sakujo]

1 minute ago, Abby_TheLastofUs said:

This would be a disaster.

You are free to elaborate.

The current state of discussion (if it can even be called that) is a nuclear wasteland.

Edited June 12, 2023 by ryuji_sakujo

[MonaSaxPayne]

tagging Sly is like pissing in the wind

Edited June 12, 2023 by MonaSaxPayne

[Abby_TheLastofUs]

7 minutes ago, ryuji_sakujo said:

You are free to elaborate.

 

A feature like that would just be abused. 

 

It already happens with status updates where some people will delete replies they don't like. Nothing that breaks the rules, nothing that's derailing the original comment, but still deleted because the OP didn't like the replies.

 

In a thread setting it would end up causing more derailment, as members would get into arguments about how their posts shouldn't have been deleted. Members that disagreed with the posts getting deleted would just keep piling on the OP. 

 

Giving members the power to remove/hide the posts of others is just asking for trouble. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Abby_TheLastofUs

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

 

I should make a feature request to let mods allow users to clown people who disproportionately respond in horribly exaggerated ways and then walk back their own responses by editing them

[JPtheNeurotic]

This is a terrible terrible feature and would make it harder for everyone , including the mods (assuming the software even tracks of this stuff )

 

 

[HusKy]

Yes, but only if you are allowed to remove posts from staff. Also, make sure this works in the dispute section for extra lulz.

[ryuji_sakujo]

17 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

tagging Sly is like pissing in the wind

Yes, a longshot, I'm not really expecting this to be implemented tomorrow or at all, but worth making a formal request like this nonetheless.

 

15 minutes ago, Abby_TheLastofUs said:

 

A feature like that would just be abused. 

It already happens with status updates where some people will delete replies they don't like. Nothing that breaks the rules, nothing that's derailing the original comment, but still deleted because the OP didn't like the replies.

In a thread setting it would end up causing more derailment, as members would get into arguments about how their posts shouldn't have been deleted. Members that disagreed with the posts getting deleted would just keep piling on the OP. 

Giving members the power to remove/hide the posts of others is just asking for trouble. 

 

I disagree.
For example on PS chat you can make a multi-member group and have the rights to remove (kick) people you don't want.
Likewise on Discord anyone is allowed to create a server, promote mods and manage it however they want.
In the same manner, threads here can be managed in a cleaner way instead of the current "wild west anyone is allowed to post anything" style.

PSNProfiles ALREADY as a community and culture has an obsession towards "keeping things clean" such as cleaning out cheaters from leaderboards and having a strict policy on revival servers, so in this same vein, why not also do a bit of cleaning and moderation on the forums, just give OP the tools to do so.

Regarding drama, it doesn't matter. There can be a log kept for removed items, eg. Ryuji removed post at 2023-06-12 15:00 by member X who commented "blah blah blah" at 2023-06-12 13:30.
You can see a similar feature in Wikipedia servers, example: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PlayStation_Network&action=history

It's really not a hard thing to implement and just an optional extra step if PSNProfiles would like to keep things transparent, but for your information "transparency" is not really PSNProfiles strongest suit so it is not expected to be implemented as PSNProfiles itself does not keep many "hidden actions" transparent and on public record (such as a log of what messages were deleted, a streaming list of cheaters, a list of removed accounts, etc.)

14 minutes ago, Deadly_Ha_Ha said:

 

I should make a feature request to let mods allow users to clown people who disproportionately respond in horribly exaggerated ways and then walk back their own responses by editing them

Not walking back on it, what was said was said and I only edited it to avoid needless drama, after having stepped away from the computer a bit and rethought how I can express myself more "diplomatically".
But thanks for keeping things transparent. ??
If you ask what my sentiment towards off-topic derailers is, it is exactly this.
And btw you are derailing this topic, so guess what I am right now thinking that you should do? ?

Edited June 12, 2023 by ryuji_sakujo

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

Then why don't you lock the thread? Better ideas than this have been suggested for years and they haven't gone through. This thread is your attempt to lash out after blowing your lid over nothing.

[ryuji_sakujo]

9 minutes ago, JPtheNeurotic said:

This is a terrible terrible feature and would make it harder for everyone , including the mods (assuming the software even tracks of this stuff )

 

 

No it wouldn't that's just your opinion, and you provide no logical train of thought so your argument is rather weak.

And yes, software easily tracks this kind of things, scroll up to see my example of Wikipedia.
What you see and the tools you have access to is just the tip of the iceberg.

Just now, Deadly_Ha_Ha said:

Then why don't you lock the thread? Better ideas than this have been suggested for years and they haven't gone through. This thread is your attempt to lash out after blowing your lid over nothing.

At least the discussion is worth having.
Are you done now? I would suggest going into DMs (I can entertain you with one response if you have something clever to comment).
Otherwise I kindly suggest that you do what was mentioned in the screenshot you posted. ?

Thanks for providing me with free examples of why OP needs features like this, it really never fails to amaze me how on-point PSNProfiles community is with being off-topic, thanks! ??

[JPtheNeurotic]

Just now, ryuji_sakujo said:

No it wouldn't that's just your opinion, and you provide no logical train of thought so your argument is rather weak.

And yes, software easily tracks this kind of things, scroll up to see my example of Wikipedia.
What you see and the tools you have access to is just the tip of the iceberg.

As someone who helps mod on a forum , this would be a giant pain in the ass . People would be deleting stuff left and right . It’s completely unnecessary when you can report things .

 

now , whether or not the moderation is good or transparency is another matter but the solution isn’t to make it the Wild West which is what you’re suggesting . 

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

Hey man, all I gotta say is have fun, chill, live and let live. Don't take yourself and your taste in video games too seriously

[ryuji_sakujo]

8 minutes ago, HusKy said:

Yes, but only if you are allowed to remove posts from staff. Also, make sure this works in the dispute section for extra lulz.

lol 

Not sure if jovial sarcasm or not, I'm bad at reading between the lines so I'll answer this literally.

1. For sure we will never be able to moderate posts made by staff, they are of course untouchable. This is a whole other discussion of how staff should be elected, and what privileges they should benefit but it's a whole other thing that perhaps would deserve a separate thread, but I think it's fine if this site kinda mimics Discord hierarchy of privileges.

2. Yeah with an audit log it would be fine, otherwise tricky. My OPINION about the "Dispute section" is that it is an unnecessary and antagonizing witch hunt, and I wish these things were handled more discreetly on this website, perhaps DMs from staff to the flagged user, or an automated email. Something that doesn't put people on public display, but that's just my take on one of the more horrible aspects of this website..

6 minutes ago, JPtheNeurotic said:

As someone who helps mod on a forum , this would be a giant pain in the ass . People would be deleting stuff left and right . It’s completely unnecessary when you can report things .

now , whether or not the moderation is good or transparency is another matter but the solution isn’t to make it the Wild West which is what you’re suggesting . 

Read my comment again. This already IS a wild west, because people can post whatever left and right.
And no it wouldn't be a giant pain if you have an audit log.. or at the VERY least being able to flag comments as "unnecessary" for moderation (but that's adding HOURS of extra work for the moderation team to go through "flagged messages").
If the community can moderate itself it would be for everyones benefit imo, currently it's a wild west and your thread has exactly 15 seconds to live before being derailed into oblivion.

[Breakingthegreen]

Here's my two cents, there's no tangible difference between an OP and someone derailing a thread, derailing happens a bunch, so people would abuse these new powers a bunch too.

 

Mods (regardless of how you feel about them) are probably one of the safer solutions that could be picked, they have to choose when things have gone too far on a thread carefully because they know more eyes are on them. And that's true for inaction too. This usually nets them a more rational judgement than most of us of internet in fights.

 

Also, I don't follow every thread I've made, and I don't think it'd be fair to expect any of us to moderate a bunch of topics I've stopped caring about.

[ProfBambam55]

the feature you're requesting exists and we all have access to it...it's the report button...the forums are public not private and I think the staff here do a great job of diplomatic moderation...why not just become a mod?...

[JPtheNeurotic]

7 minutes ago, ryuji_sakujo said:

Read my comment again. This already IS a wild west, because people can post whatever left and right.
And no it wouldn't be a giant pain if you have an audit log.. or at the VERY least being able to flag comments as "unnecessary" for moderation (but that's adding HOURS of extra work for the moderation team to go through "flagged messages").
If the community can moderate itself it would be for everyones benefit imo, currently it's a wild west and your thread has exactly 15 seconds to live before being derailed into oblivion.

I read it  and it would be worse than it already is . I wouldn’t trust most people here to do the right thing . 
 

I have major issues wot tthe moderation on this site too but your idea is not a solution . 

[ryuji_sakujo]

8 minutes ago, breakingthegreen said:

Here's my two cents, there's no tangible difference between an OP and someone derailing a thread, derailing happens a bunch, so people would abuse these new powers a bunch too.

Nah, while both can diverge from a topic, it is usually within the OPs interest to keep discussion on a particular topic.
Whether you take a more open-ended approach to how the discussion flows is a different thing.
If I post a topic like: "Do I need to buy these 2 DLCs to trophy complete the game" then I am very little interested in getting responses like "This game sucks/is great".

 

8 minutes ago, breakingthegreen said:

Mods (regardless of how you feel about them) are probably one of the safer solutions that could be picked, they have to choose when things have gone too far on a thread carefully because they know more eyes are on them. And that's true for inaction too. This usually nets them a more rational judgement than most of us of internet in fights.

Wow.. putting mods on a high pedestal.
Ok.. no again I disagree here, mods are only humans picked assumably by Sly and delegated responsibility to moderate the forums and other parts of the website or "brand" (if we include the Discord server and other operations). Mods have biases, mods have a limited time to moderate, they only have 24 hrs in a day and have other "shit to do" in their lives apart from resolving quarrels.

So again, I think it is wise to give OPs the rights to moderate their own threads (WITH an audit log if needed) to their own temperament and liking.
This would benefit the community, benefit the OP of the threads and lessen the moderation burden on mods.

8 minutes ago, breakingthegreen said:

Also, I don't follow every thread I've made, and I don't think it'd be fair to expect any of us to moderate a bunch of topics I've stopped caring about.

I never suggested that. I only suggested OP (original posters) of threads to be able to moderate their own posts.

And if you don't like how you're being "moderated" or "silenced" in a given thread, then that would encourage you to make a new thread.
I'm happy to have opinionated threads alongside the threads I make, just NOT to have the content of those two get mixed into each other as it currently stands.

8 minutes ago, ProfBambam55 said:

the feature you're requesting exists and we all have access to it...it's the report button...the forums are public not private and I think the staff here do a great job of diplomatic moderation...why not just become a mod?...

Great point.. but that puts ALL of the moderation burden on mods.
Read my previous reply to @breakingthegreen ?

Quick example with made-up numbers for the purpose of illustration:

• Mods doing all the work scenario: Let's assume this forum generates 100 reports / hr.
  That's 100 new reports to go through every hour for a moderation team of 4 (see Moderation Team at https://forum.psnprofiles.com/staff/ )
• OPs getting delegated moderation responsibility scenario: In addition to the report button we get to moderate our OWN threads only.
  This not only decreases the amount of reports but makes the processing much quicker since the burden of moderation is partially distributed to the whole community.
  The mods can focus on important cases of reported content, and OPs can clean up clutter in their own threads, everyone wins.

By the way I think mods here do a pretty good job of moderation, but again it's resource heavy.

Also if you're asking ME why I won't become a mod then you probably need more context about me  I will neither be granted this "privilege" nor do I seek it.
And I have neither the time or will to work within the constraints of how things currently stand. But I am pushing for a more open and democratic community-driven setup. Probably pissing in the wind though like @MonaSaxPayne said so I'm not really holding my breath here. ?

Edited June 12, 2023 by ryuji_sakujo

[ryuji_sakujo]

11 minutes ago, JPtheNeurotic said:

I read it  and it would be worse than it already is . I wouldn’t trust most people here to do the right thing . 

I have major issues wot tthe moderation on this site too but your idea is not a solution . 

We're not talking about RANDOMS going into your profile and switching things up, editing your forum profile or messing with your trophy cabinet.
We are talking about a very limited delegated moderation tools to moderate ones OWN threads.
And additionally an audit log which would be fairly easy to expose publicly if ppl demand it (note: PSNProfiles have not made things more transparent just for the sake of it, nor have people complained, rather just blindly trusted that everything is alright).

[Breakingthegreen]

4 minutes ago, ryuji_sakujo said:

If I post a topic like: "Do I need to buy these 2 DLCs to trophy complete the game" then I am very little interested in getting responses like "This game sucks/is great".

I so rarely ever see that on here that, and I also don't think it matters enough to bring a potentially detrimental tool into the forums.

 

7 minutes ago, ryuji_sakujo said:

Wow.. putting mods on a high pedestal.
Ok.. no again I disagree here, mods are only humans picked assumably by Sly and delegated responsibility to moderate the forums and other parts of the website or "brand" (if we include the Discord server and other operations). Mods have biases, mods have a limited time to moderate, they only have 24 hrs in a day and have other "shit to do" in their lives apart from resolving quarrels.

I wasn't putting mods on a pedestal, I was saying the concept of mods for moderation is better than the OP, yes people have biases, often OP has the biggest bias because they're the one who made the topic in the first place, rather than a mod who doesn't care about 99% of forum posts and just wants no fighting so they can move on. It's not that Mods are good that I'm praising them, it's that I think everyone moderating their own corners is actively bad.

 

11 minutes ago, ryuji_sakujo said:

I never suggested that. I only suggested OP (original posters) of threads to be able to moderate their own posts.

The idea of giving people modding powers on their own topics naturally leads to the responsibility of those topics in the hands of the OP, even if that view is unfair, it would become one just due the capabilities of the OPs

[ProfBambam55]

13 minutes ago, ryuji_sakujo said:

Read my previous reply to @breakingthegreen 

Quick example with made-up numbers for the purpose of illustration:

• Mods doing all the work scenario: Let's assume this forum generates 100 reports / hr.
  That's 100 new reports to go through every hour for a moderation team of 4 (see Moderation Team at https://forum.psnprofiles.com/staff/ )
• OPs getting delegated moderation responsibility scenario: In addition to the report button we get to moderate our OWN threads only.
  This not only decreases the amount of reports but makes the processing much quicker since the burden of moderation is partially distributed to the whole community.
  The mods can focus on important cases of reported content, and OPs can clean up clutter in their own threads, everyone wins.

By the way I think mods here do a pretty good job of moderation, but again it's resource heavy.

Also if you're asking ME why I won't become a mod then you probably need more context about me  I will neither be granted this "privilege" nor do I seek it.
And I have neither the time or will to work within the constraints of how things currently stand. But I am pushing for a more open and democratic community-driven setup. Probably pissing in the wind though like @MonaSaxPayne said so I'm not really holding my breath here. 

I did read your response and I thought "just hit the report button"...I haven't seen the mods complain about being overloaded with stuff to do but perhaps they are...do you have an inside scoop on this?...and yes, sometimes it takes them a bit of time to take action but it would be the same if we were able to moderate our own threads...unless you find a way to be active 24/7...point is, you can already try to clean up your and other people's threads with the report button and a bit of patience...I don't see any advantage to giving users that power especially when double threads are not allowed...

[Dauersack]

Users are already capable to delete replies to their status updates, that should be enough. I have been in many forums over the years, even moderated one in my youth when I was generally much more patient towards utter stupidity than I am today, and having seen such features work in some and miserably fail in other forums I can tell you that for such a feature to work you need the right crowd.

 

In a forum like we have here with some people who are clearly unhinged, some are hardcore pro censorship to the point of publically celebrating the lockdown of threads they don't like due to personal beef with the people commenting in it or the opinions shared in it, and certain topics always getting hopelessly derailed before ending in mud slinging contests, giving the users more moderating tools is just going to create echo chambers because some will delete every post they do not 100% agree with. More balanced users will remember the name of these pro censorship users and proceed to delete all of their posts in their own threads as retaliation, which is an understandable reaction, and before you know it the average user will have a considerable percentage of his total posts deleted without as much as a comment on it as to why, many users will ask themselves why they should even bother to comment in most threads under such conditions.

 

As bad as this forum can be at times, implementing this feature is pretty much guaranteed to make it even worse.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Dauersack

[Taliesin_2943]

I'd say it's a decent idea but have it so if you as the op do delete a post you also stop the person from replying further and hold the power to just delete the whole thread if it goes pear shaped

 

And this won't work the same for disputes there only mods hold the power but not the cheat team but mods so neither party can change things to look one way or the other and neither party can accuse the other of omitting vital info. 

[El-Sublime-]

Bad idea. This would create posts with disinformation and weird discussions where OP always win (or fixes the post so nobody will know that happens).

 

I would like to delete my own posts.

Edited June 12, 2023 by El-Sublime-

[Fiercethetear]

Please do not turn this website into reddit...