Brenden Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've had a bit of an issue with developers these days with the fact the rise of unfinished games is becoming more prevalent in recent times then ever. I do have concerns for what gaming will become as we will probably see half created games then having to spend an extra 30 bucks to unlock the rest more than likely. Anyways the topic on hand is explained in my latest video I wish to share with you all, I hope you enjoy and let me know what your thoughts and opinions are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjgC3T8iYC8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Nope, personally I think it is the best "generation" for game developers. People can whine and cry all they want about bugs and such, but the fact of the matter is, games nowadays are hundreds of times more complicated than games on previous console generations. It is much, much more difficult to make a bug free game when you have way more to worry about than you did in the past. The difference now is patches. Before this console generation a developer had to work as hard as they could to make the game as well as they could. Once it went gold there was nothing they could do to fix anything else other than re-release a new version. Now developers can get feedback from the community and fix through patches what has been discovered by the community which may have been overlooked or not seen in development. People tend to forget that when you have 2 million people playing your game, they will find many more bugs than when you have 2 hundred. Most bugs don't just get overlooked by someone, they just simply aren't discovered because there are only a certain amount of people testing the game. Do some developers abuse patching to release an unfinished product and patch it later? Absolutely, but in my mind those developers are very few and far between and their sales have dropped due to practices like this. I think patching is a wonderful thing. When you get a good developer, they can listen to what the community wants and add things to the game. A perfect example is Polyphony Digital. They've been patching the game for over a year, adding things that many people have been suggesting and fixing bugs that people find. There will never be such a thing as a bug free game, but with developers patching their work after it is released we can come that much closer. Parker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A12 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Developers? No, far from it. But the people who run the distributions, they are some of the most evil and greedy, on the planet, ever. (F.E.) D.I.C.E. would probably have loved to spend 5 years developing BF3, into one complete game(all DLC included). But with the people at E.A. running the show, we get the product of punished labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyItsSpanky Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 People tend to forget that when you have 2 million people playing your game, they will find many more bugs than when you have 2 hundred. Most bugs don't just get overlooked by someone, they just simply aren't discovered because there are only a certain amount of people testing the game.Do some developers abuse patching to release an unfinished product and patch it later? Absolutely, but in my mind those developers are very few and far between and their sales have dropped due to practices like this. This hits the nail on the head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXtreme_ Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The problem is that games are more advanced in this generation, but game companies are still trying to use the time schedules of previous generations for creating a game. You can't create a PS3 game, from scratch, in the same time it took to make a PSOne or PS2 title. Even using the pre-written game engines, you still need more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXtreme_ Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 We have some of the best developers that ever lived making games right now. Let's look away from the small failures of DICE, (I'm not a BF fan, but it's still impressive for it's technology) who I'm not a major fan of, and look at some other developers- Valve (Portal, Half-Life) Bioware (Dragon Age and Mass Effect) Naughty Dog (Uncharted) Rockstar (Grand Theft Auto and Red Dead Redemption) Find one game, made by any of these developers, and call it 'half-done' with a straight face. I'd really take Bethesda out of that list. They haven't released a crash-free game since Oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXtreme_ Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I can't take them out of the list if you quote the post. fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreakon139 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'd really take Bethesda out of that list. They haven't released a crash-free game since Oblivion. In the spirit of what James_Page said, can you really name a game with the scale and complexity of a game like Skyrim, while giving you complete and utter freedom to do as you please whenever you like? You can literally stop quests halfway through a dungeon and just backtrack out and do something else. There are multiple major intersecting questlines (not to mention a myriad of more minor quests that could also intersect) that you could have at any given point. The game has to be a programming nightmare. I don't have a ton of RPG experience so someones going to come out and say "Mass Effect 2" and completely prove me wrong, but I'm relatively impressed Skyrim and the Fallout games weren't more buggy. And in Skyrim's case at least, they seem relatively dedicated to fixing most of the bigger issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreakon139 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Mass Effect was not nearly as 'massive' (pun intended) as Skyrim or the modern Fallouts. It did have very few glitches, but it's only about 25 hours long, tops, with few fully open spaces. So Bioware doesn't get a pass for making a buggy game, but the good news is, they never have. Mass Effect 2 was just an example of a game with RPG qualities that I haven't played. Feel free to fill in that blank with any modern RPG (western or japanese). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade_VC Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Nope, personally I think it is the best "generation" for game developers. People can whine and cry all they want about bugs and such, but the fact of the matter is, games nowadays are hundreds of times more complicated than games on previous console generations. It is much, much more difficult to make a bug free game when you have way more to worry about than you did in the past. Although I get the jest of what you are saying, we also have to remember that when we, as consumers, are willing to accept and help make excuses for mediocrity, that is what we will continue to get. Game more complicated? Yes. Games more massive in scope and scale than bygone days? Yes. That is no excuse for releasing a game that is not much more than an Open BETA and charging $60+ dollars for it. If many developers were allowed to actually finish their games, rather than adhere to a Publishers schedule (whom I blame equally), maybe we would see fewer games that are released with massive patches "Day 1" or having to wait 2 months after purchasing a game so it is actually playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil_Mermaid_Girl Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 A good example of an unfished (badly unfished, mind you) game is Final Fantasy 14 online (PC). I played the beta, I played the game day 1 and not much (did anything at all?) changed. Not only that but this is Square we're talking about. A large company that had a successful prior mmorpg running for years and yet this game released like it had been in the works for maybe a year, maybe. There was/is simply no excuse to release a game that unfinished. I don't know if they were banking on the Final Fantasy name, or thinking everyone from 11 would run right over to 14, or maybe that gamers are just dumb, I really don't know. It hasn't paid off for them at all, they're still "working" on the game, it's been out almost a year and I think it's still free to play because they admitted it's unfished. I just don't get it. They lost out here massively. They could have had a game that ran for years and was profitable, instead they sold a few hundred thousand copies at lauch and have now tarnished the game so badly that even if they did fix it 100% it still wouldn't sell. (Yes, I'm stomping my feet in annoyed anger as I had really been looking forward to this.) That's an example of highly unfished games turing out very, very badly for game companies. Hopefully other companies (and Sqaure) learn from Square's fiasco of a lesson. (I don't agree that this is the worst generation though, this is just an example of how bad it can get when companies do this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXtreme_ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 In the spirit of what James_Page said, can you really name a game with the scale and complexity of a game like Skyrim, while giving you complete and utter freedom to do as you please whenever you like? You can literally stop quests halfway through a dungeon and just backtrack out and do something else. There are multiple major intersecting questlines (not to mention a myriad of more minor quests that could also intersect) that you could have at any given point. The game has to be a programming nightmare. You know what, and I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, I know of a game that mirror's Skyrim almost exactly (not quite in size) and it ran without a hitch from day 1...Oblivion. Yeah, it had big DLC packages but Bethesda seemed to be able to pull that one off without running through downtown crash central. So why the rush on Skyrim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fsck It Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You know what, and I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, I know of a game that mirror's Skyrim almost exactly (not quite in size) and it ran without a hitch from day 1...Oblivion. Yeah, it had big DLC packages but Bethesda seemed to be able to pull that one off without running through downtown crash central. So why the rush on Skyrim? I'm sure part of the rush was all of the marketing hype around the 11/11/11 release date. Having a drop dead release date announced when it was early in development is usually a good way to ensure bugs on launch. Also Oblivion had its share of bugs. Lots of item duping and broken quest bugs. But none that were completely game breaking like the PS3 performance bugs. I really want to start Skyrim but I'm just going to wait until a stable "GOTY" version with all of the DLC comes out later this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXtreme_ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm sure part of the rush was all of the marketing hype around the 11/11/11 release date. Having a drop dead release date announced when it was early in development is usually a good way to ensure bugs on launch. Also Oblivion had its share of bugs. Lots of item duping and broken quest bugs. But none that were completely game breaking like the PS3 performance bugs. I really want to start Skyrim but I'm just going to wait until a stable "GOTY" version with all of the DLC comes out later this year. Well, I guess Bethesda needs to do a major upgrade to their Q&A department. Perhaps I should put in an application. I'm an old hand at pushing the envelop as far as RPG adventuring...hell, I still remember finding the first Easter Egg...the magic dot in Adventure for the 2600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moneraa Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 They are more like, that more noticicable this generation. Last generation had tons of horrible developers, this year, most of the developers are noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlay_ Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Techland, post-release of Dead Island. Need more details? On their facebook, they told the community not to use their online coop at all for fear of glitches, bugs, and save file erases. It was a huge issue and should have been tested out... but they used the money to buy off reviews instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piggie_Pie Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Bethesda has been poopy for consoles (namely PS3) but over all... coming from playing Pong on the Atari... i gotta say that im very well pleased... I use to get on my soap box and complain... but today im just thankful to play games... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSXtreme_ Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 they used the money to buy off reviews instead. As a former game reviewer, I can honestly say that most companies don't need to pump out big bucks for the big reviews. Some sites will "bend over backwards" with their writing (and they'll be the ones CONSTANTLY preaching their objectivity) just so they can be "on the inside" for pre-paid trips to the development sites (and yes, EA IS one of the big wine & diners) and on a first name basis to the media reps, thinking that they will get the exclusive scoops. Some smaller sites just want to continue to get the free games sent by the developer/producer so they slant their "opinions." There really aren't normally big checks changing hands, but benefits, trips, swag and continuing the trend/coverage keeps the circle going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I disagree with it being the worse generation of games. But if we look at the generation of gamers as a whole has completely changed. While many core gamers are still up and at em on the consoles, a whole wave of casual "gamers" (dare I call them that) are being spawned from facebook games and iPod apps. I blame the increase of DLC, on games like Call of Duty where they come out with DLC a week after the game is released, on this new wave of casual gamers and games. Developers wouldn't sell the DLC if no one bought it, the same reason why a game like FarmVille wouldn't sell overpriced virtual goods if no one bought it, and some of the new casual-gone-core gamers are so used to playing with their Credit Cards ready they have no problem dishing out 20$ on a DLC. That's just my thinking, it may be a little bit of a stretch, but that's just what I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I disagree with it being the worse generation of games. But if we look at the generation of gamers as a whole has completely changed. While many core gamers are still up and at em on the consoles, a whole wave of casual "gamers" (dare I call them that) are being spawned from facebook games and iPod apps. I blame the increase of DLC, on games like Call of Duty where they come out with DLC a week after the game is released, on this new wave of casual gamers and games. Developers wouldn't sell the DLC if no one bought it, the same reason why a game like FarmVille wouldn't sell overpriced virtual goods if no one bought it, and some of the new casual-gone-core gamers are so used to playing with their Credit Cards ready they have no problem dishing out 20$ on a DLC. That's just my thinking, it may be a little bit of a stretch, but that's just what I see. Just a note, it's generally EA games (or Capcom) that have DLC on or very near the release date. CoD has been out since November and hasn't had any DLC while Battlefield 3 has a map pack and another DLC for camo and dog tags. I don't mean to nitpick as I get your point, but CoD gets enough hate as it is so I hate to see misinformation spread. Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 You know what, and I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, I know of a game that mirror's Skyrim almost exactly (not quite in size) and it ran without a hitch from day 1...Oblivion. Yeah, it had big DLC packages but Bethesda seemed to be able to pull that one off without running through downtown crash central. So why the rush on Skyrim? I think fsckit is right. Most of it was the 11/11/11 release date and the fact that it's near the holidays and that there were other big games coming at that time. -------------------- It's mostly the publishers fault with their deadlines. This generation is very different than the past 2 generations. I read a Kojima interview in the latest issue of Playstation mag where he said that he was able to be more free and could focus everything on one game back then where nowadays, he is juggling multiple games and is threatened by deadlines. Just a note, it's generally EA games (or Capcom) that have DLC on or very near the release date. CoD has been out since November and hasn't had any DLC while Battlefield 3 has a map pack and another DLC for camo and dog tags. I don't mean to nitpick as I get your point, but CoD gets enough hate as it is so I hate to see misinformation spread. Parker The 'Back to Karkand' map pack were remastered maps from previous games and the camo and dog tag DLC were once a special pre-order only thing. The BTK maps were obviously re-worked and were not originally parts of the game that just couldn't be put in on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think fsckit is right. Most of it was the 11/11/11 release date and the fact that it's near the holidays and that there were other big games coming at that time. -------------------- It's mostly the publishers fault with their deadlines. This generation is very different than the past 2 generations. I read a Kojima interview in the latest issue of Playstation mag where he said that he was able to be more free and could focus everything on one game back then where nowadays, he is juggling multiple games and is threatened by deadlines. The 'Back to Karkand' map pack were remastered maps from previous games and the camo and dog tag DLC were once a special pre-order only thing. The BTK maps were obviously re-worked and were not originally parts of the game that just couldn't be put in on time. I know, I was just correcting him on the DLC bit. On a semi related note, I do find it extremely funny that Battlefield fans were raising all sorts of hell when Infinity Ward announced their map packs were going to have older, remastered maps in them, People complained that they'd only be getting 3 "new" maps and have to pay $15. Then BF3 comes along and charges $15 for nothing but old remastered maps. It doesn't really matter to me though. People can bash on CoD all they want, I definitely get my $60 out of it (hell, I spend that much taking my wife to a dinner and movie, and I don't even enjoy that! ) and while it is a little disappointing that they lack innovation, they are damn addicting, especially when you have people to play with. That's not to say Battlefield isn't addicting as well, but it's a whole different genre as far as I'm concerned. It's like comparing Gran Turismo to Need for Speed. Sure they are both racing games but they are both trying to accomplish way different things and the only thing they really have in common in cars and racing, in the same way that Battlefield and CoD only share guns and shooting people in the face in common. That's not to say one is better than the other but they are simply different games within the same genre. Sorry to get off topic, that little rant wasn't directed at anyone here (more like the gaming community in general I suppose) but for some reason I have the urge to play some Battlefield 3... Damnit Wade, I hope your still online. Parker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I know, I was just correcting him on the DLC bit. On a semi related note, I do find it extremely funny that Battlefield fans were raising all sorts of hell when Infinity Ward announced their map packs were going to have older, remastered maps in them, People complained that they'd only be getting 3 "new" maps and have to pay $15. Then BF3 comes along and charges $15 for nothing but old remastered maps. It doesn't really matter to me though. People can bash on CoD all they want, I definitely get my $60 out of it (hell, I spend that much taking my wife to a dinner and movie, and I don't even enjoy that! ) and while it is a little disappointing that they lack innovation, they are damn addicting, especially when you have people to play with. Parker True, but the the BTK maps were from another generation and had a huge update graphically and was free if you pre-ordered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade_VC Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 but for some reason I have the urge to play some Battlefield 3... Damnit Wade, I hope your still online. I'm not hard to find buddy. If you see me on and the game is full, shoot me a message/invite and I'll join you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider50 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Games get worse as we go along, well at least less fun anyway, AC2 > AC: B > AC: R COD4 > COD 6> COD 8 BFBC1 > BFBC2 > BF3 That is just my opinion however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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