Bosses trophies should be solo only

[Dragon-Archon]

I haven't played Bloodborne yet, so I don't know if this is the same as the Souls series. But in Dark Souls bosses get more health and are stronger if you challenge them in co-op (even with an AI co-op). That should still pose a challenge (looking at you Ornstein & Smough).

 

 

 That you will have hotties lining up at your bedroom door and banging you 3 at a time? 

If only it was that easy.

[Dr_Mayus]

I haven't played Bloodborne yet, so I don't know if this is the same as the Souls series. But in Dark Souls bosses get more health and are stronger if you challenge them in co-op (even with an AI co-op). That should still pose a challenge (looking at you Ornstein & Smough).

 

 

If only it was that easy.

Well the X-Com plat should get you at least 2 at a time

[Dragon-Archon]

Well the X-Com plat should get you at least 2 at a time

Woohoo  . So how many do you have with the Resistance 2 and Warhawk plats?

[xWinson]

Ya I only have one trophy left for Bloodborne - on the last dungeon to kill the queen and I completely soloed the whole game in offline mode on my vita remote play.

 

It was a definite challenge doing it all by myself and I can definitely agree to an extent that its a shame that this game has such a high platinum rate despite the amount of effort for solo players haha !

[Happy]

Jesus Christ people calm down. This really isn't the kinda topic to get so aggressive over.

[Dr_Mayus]

Woohoo  . So how many do you have with the Resistance 2 and Warhawk plats?

Nah, It is only Starhawk looks like nothing for me

[Matto_lsi]

I may be wrong, but I feel like the original argument the OP was making was not that people shouldn't play co-op, but more so confusion as to why FROM would allow boss trophies to pop in co-op.  As someone who has played the Souls games (not on PS3), and at times been brutally punished by them, I am a little surprised by Bloodborne as a whole.  After spending so much time learning to 'doge' (dodge roll) as my Namco friends call it, Bloodborne completely flipped the game mechanics, and while they are more intuitive, they also make the game easier than past Souls games.  But DS2 was also easier than DS and DeS, so I guess its a trend.  When my buddy got Bloodborne on launch day and I dropped by to play it (as I don't have a PS4), I was surprised.  But now I feel more like FROM is just trending their games in a slightly easier direction to appease western gamers.

 

So to the OP, I can see what you're getting at, and I guess that's my response.  Maybe the inherent difficulty of the franchise will eventually get easy enough for casual gamers to play.  Maybe making boss trophies earnable in co-op was not so much an oversight, but a gameplay feature.  I mean, how else do you get people who are terrible at Souls games to keep playing and stop dropping 1 star reviews on Amazon?  Don't get me wrong, Bloodborne sure isn't an easy game, just not the same caliber as the older Souls games.

[Slipknot_rooney]

They could have had separate trophies then, one for beating a boss, and another for beating it solo. I think it would be interesting actually, in terms of rarity anyway, and come on, who doesn't like bragging rights, you can't be on a trophy site and say you don't care for bragging rights, at least a little . These games do bring in fans that look down on others for doing something different (not pointing at the op), but being called a 'casual' because I did something different, oh, I'm supposed to be offended If you go through the game 100% solo, well done, sit in silence knowing you got the skills

[Snokes]

Ahh, another fine example of what happens when people don't properly understand the topic due to miscommunication or diction. Unwarranted hostility followed by the lynching, figuratively of course, of the topic creator. Seriously, what happened to the civility people have been praising?

 

On to the topic at hand, I do agree that trophies ought to pose at least somewhat of a challenge. I mean, trophies are just the Xbox's achievements under a different name. With a name like "achievement" you'd expect it do be acquired by doing something that is just a little noteworthy at the least. Even the basic idea of an actual trophy is that you accomplished some sort of feat. That's not to say I look down upon trophies that are deemed easier or can be achieved through easier means than the norm. I auto-popped Sound Shapes twice for crying out loud. The challenge factor obviously doesn't bother me that much. I just prefer a trophy that takes more effort over one that takes less. There's a stronger feeling of accomplishment. And isn't that the entire point of trophies? To get that sense of gratification after making progress in a game or performing some sort of spectacle? A person shouldn't be belittled for getting easier trophies, but earning a "hard" trophy certainly does give you a different feeling than getting a trophy for doing something mundane. I couldn't care less what other people think of my collection honestly, I just like collecting stuff because it stimulates my kleptomania and I like the sensation of accomplishing something. 

 

Overall, I'd prefer if developers put a little bit of effort into their trophy unlock criteria, but in the end, I really don't care what they do. If they want to make it easy, medium, or hard, it's all up to them. If they want to make the unlock details a bit more open, sure why not? The only trophies that really drive me up a wall are online trophies.

[JimmyRSX]

OK, now that we have all calmed down a little, the doctor has a prescription for you.

1. FROM software allowed people to co-op bosses and earn trophies, so why are you telling people they can't or shouldn't do that? If you want to get mad at someone go tweet FROM Software.

2. No one is hacking the game or using save states, so who fucking cares how they earn their trophies. They aren't cheating so what's the problem.

3. You seem pretty caught up on the bragging rights thing but once again no one fucking cares. Do you think because you soloed Bloodborne you are something special? That you will have hotties lining up at your bedroom door and banging you 3 at a time? You played a game and had fun...good for you. Others co-oped the game and had fun...good for them.

So yeah...get over it.

Okay mate, but really. I've nothing to get over. I came on here simply asking a question and wondered what others' opinions would be. Since then I've just been trying to defend myself because people have taken it the wrong way. Did you even read the original post?

And I never once got "hung up" on the 'bragging rights' of trophies. I mentioned it once as a reply to MatCauthon. It's just a phrase. I don't actually brag about my trophies. Have you seen them? They really aren't anything to brag about. I was referring to the competitive side of trophies after he said why do I care what other people are doing?! It was uncalled for.

Here's what happened: "I think bosses become too easy when ganging up on them 2 or 3 at a time. Of course anyone is welcome to play the game however they like, but does anyone agree that those trophies would be worth more if you HAD to fight for them solo, ie. the hardest way to do them. I have found a lot of them really tough, but it was so satisfying when I finally beat them by myself, the way I think Miyasaki would have liked the player to achieve them."

What quite a few on here seem to have read: "I'm not happy about people CHEATING on this game by co-operating on the bosses. I don't do it because I'm hard-core. I finished the game without dying. They don't deserve the boss trophies and it goes against the rules. Only a chosen few deserve trophies. From Software never intended for people to play together so they shouldn't."

I'm just gonna be really polite from now on because I seem to be fighting a losing battle. Although I really don't know why it had to become a battle. I think it's a real shame the first impression I've got from this forum has been. I have really enjoyed using this site and the first time I use the forum I get swipes left and right. Like I said, I posted the same post on Eurogamer, a site I have used for years, and everybody understood my post. They didn't misinterpret it as an attack on anyone, or a dig, or an attempt to gloat. They just took it as a simple question and answered.

I guess I got the community of this site wrong. Being a trophy site, I thought a lot of you would probably be interested in trophies as something you earn, a challenge to be savoured. But it seems a lot of you are only interested in collecting as many as you can, as quickly as you can, as easily as you can. That's a shame.

I may be wrong, but I feel like the original argument the OP was making was not that people shouldn't play co-op, but more so confusion as to why FROM would allow boss trophies to pop in co-op. As someone who has played the Souls games (not on PS3), and at times been brutally punished by them, I am a little surprised by Bloodborne as a whole. After spending so much time learning to 'doge' (dodge roll) as my Namco friends call it, Bloodborne completely flipped the game mechanics, and while they are more intuitive, they also make the game easier than past Souls games. But DS2 was also easier than DS and DeS, so I guess its a trend. When my buddy got Bloodborne on launch day and I dropped by to play it (as I don't have a PS4), I was surprised. But now I feel more like FROM is just trending their games in a slightly easier direction to appease western gamers.

So to the OP, I can see what you're getting at, and I guess that's my response. Maybe the inherent difficulty of the franchise will eventually get easy enough for casual gamers to play. Maybe making boss trophies earnable in co-op was not so much an oversight, but a gameplay feature. I mean, how else do you get people who are terrible at Souls games to keep playing and stop dropping 1 star reviews on Amazon? Don't get me wrong, Bloodborne sure isn't an easy game, just not the same caliber as the older Souls games.

Thank you. Somebody who understands. It really wasn't like it was complicated. Like, at all.

Edited April 25, 2015 by rsx901

[Dr_Mayus]

Okay mate, but really. I've nothing to get over. I came on here simply asking a question and wondered what others' opinions would be. Since then I've just been trying to defend myself because people have taken it the wrong way. Did you even read the original post?

And I never once got "hung up" on the 'bragging rights' of trophies. I mentioned it once as a reply to MatCauthon. It's just a phrase. I don't actually brag about my trophies. Have you seen them? They really aren't anything to brag about. I was referring to the competitive side of trophies after he said why do I care what other people are doing?! It was uncalled for.

Here's what happened: "I think bosses become too easy when ganging up on them 2 or 3 at a time. Of course anyone is welcome to play the game however they like, but does anyone agree that those trophies would be worth more if you HAD to fight for them solo, ie. the hardest way to do them. I have found a lot of them really tough, but it was so satisfying when I finally beat them by myself, the way I think Miyasaki would have liked the player to achieve them."

What quite a few on here seem to have read: "I'm not happy about people CHEATING on this game by co-operating on the bosses. I don't do it because I'm hard-core. I finished the game without dying. They don't deserve the boss trophies and it goes against the rules. Only a chosen few deserve trophies. From Software never intended for people to play together so they shouldn't."

I'm just gonna be really polite from now on because I seem to be fighting a losing battle. Although I really don't know why it had to become a battle. I think it's a real shame the first impression I've got from this forum has been. I have really enjoyed using this site and the first time I use the forum I get swipes left and right. Like I said, I posted the same post on Eurogamer, a site I have used for years, and everybody understood my post. They didn't misinterpret it as an attack on anyone, or a dig, or an attempt to gloat. They just took it as a simple question and answered.

I guess I got the community of this site wrong. Being a trophy site, I thought a lot of you would probably be interested in trophies as something you earn, a challenge to be savoured. But it seems a lot of you are only interested in collecting as many as you can, as quickly as you can, as easily as you can. That's a shame.

Thank you. Somebody who understands. It really wasn't like it was complicated. Like, at all.

Dood, we understood your post. You asked if we felt it was cheating to use co-op. You also said you didn't think you deserved the trophy since you did it in co-op.

 

People started responding with "no we don't feel it is cheating since it is a feature in the game" Then you became really defensive and kind of came off badly saying things like "And if you don't understand that then you've completely misunderstood the whole purpose of trophies and the challenge and bragging rights they create for you and others." (which I still find to be really funny) and also this "My 'beef' is purely with the trophies. I just think they should be harder than simply progressing through the game. Trophies should be an extra challenge to the main game. Some developers either don't care about trophies, or don't really know what to do with them. Looking at you Telltale. You shouldn't get a platinum simply for completing the game." Which is why I mentioned getting mad at FROM and not the people at PSNP.

 

This is a pretty awesome forum board, but it is give and take. You seemed to assume since people didn't agree with you that they were attacking you. Some were and some weren't.

 

Hey we want you to stay around and be part of this awesome community but just remember that people have opinions and they may not always jive.

[JimmyRSX]

Dood, we understood your post. You asked if we felt it was cheating to use co-op. You also said you didn't think you deserved the trophy since you did it in co-op.

People started responding with "no we don't feel it is cheating since it is a feature in the game" Then you became really defensive and kind of came off badly saying things like "And if you don't understand that then you've completely misunderstood the whole purpose of trophies and the challenge and bragging rights they create for you and others." (which I still find to be really funny) and also this "My 'beef' is purely with the trophies. I just think they should be harder than simply progressing through the game. Trophies should be an extra challenge to the main game. Some developers either don't care about trophies, or don't really know what to do with them. Looking at you Telltale. You shouldn't get a platinum simply for completing the game." Which is why I mentioned getting mad at FROM and not the people at PSNP.

This is a pretty awesome forum board, but it is give and take. You seemed to assume since people didn't agree with you that they were attacking you. Some were and some weren't.

Hey we want you to stay around and be part of this awesome community but just remember that people have opinions and they may not always jive.

Some were and some weren't attacking me? That was my whole point. And that's a bit rich coming from the one who attacked me the hardest. You got carried away and you were harsh, personal even.

And you can't just say all people said were "no it's not cheating" and then I flew off the handle. I had to defend myself for a reason. The last THREE people agree that I was completely misunderstood and attacked. I had to say something back.

I suppose I wasn't clear on the whole 'cheating' thing though. I probably shouldn't have used the word at all. I wasn't accusing anyone. But 'did you feel like you were cheating' is different from 'Is it cheating?'. It's a subtle difference, granted, but a difference all the same.

Edited April 26, 2015 by rsx901

[Dr_Mayus]

Some were and some weren't attacking me? That was my whole point. And that's a bit rich coming from the one who attacked me the hardest. You got carried away and you were harsh, personal even.

And you can't just say all people said were "no it's not cheating" and then I flew off the handle. I had to defend myself for a reason. The last THREE people agree that I was completely misunderstood and attacked. I had to say something back.

I suppose I wasn't clear on the whole 'cheating' thing though. I probably shouldn't have used the word at all. I wasn't accusing anyone. But 'did you feel like you were cheating' is different from 'Is it cheating?'. It's a subtle difference, granted, but a difference all the same.

How was I personally attacking you? Was it when I said 'Do you think because you soloed Bloodborne you are something special?' Yeah I said that because you spent 2 pages and all of your posts on this website building yourself up as you are some deity of gaming because you got the boss trophies solo and running down those who used co-op. Good for you.

 

You know what dood, you have problems beyond pacifism as you take everything as an attack on you but fail to realize that you have been on the attack since you got here. Have fun soloing boss fights.

[Woop982]

Jesus Christ people calm down. This really isn't the kinda topic to get so aggressive over.

Luckily Dr_Mayus and Dragon-Archon were quick to lighten things up!

 

Gotta love those two!

[Dragon-Archon]

Nah, It is only Starhawk looks like nothing for me

Whaaat  !!! How can that be possible with your the UR plats. Maybe you should plat Star Ocean 4 .

Luckily Dr_Mayus and Dragon-Archon were quick to lighten things up!

 

Gotta love those two!

That's what I'm here for. If you ever want me to light things up, call 555-DRAGON and I'll swoop down and set things on fire .

[Dr_Mayus]

Whaaat  !!! How can that be possible with your the UR plats. Maybe you should plat Star Ocean 4 .

That's what I'm here for. If you ever want me to light things up, call 555-DRAGON and I'll swoop down and set things on fire .

They took away one of my Ultra Rare plats I recommended Lone Survivor to too many people and now it is just Very Rare. As for Star Ocean,

[Time4Tiddy]

In my opinion people can play how they want to play.  I find most of the bosses nearly impossible to melee (for me) because I'm not awesome at dodging.  But, I have a high bloodtinge build and buy a stack of bone marrow ash before each boss fight.  Repeating pistol, bone marrow, 10 shots, done.  I've done that on four of the eight or nine bosses I've killed so far (not counting chalice).  I haven't summoned help for any boss yet, but I've also kind of cheesed them with the double pistol/bone marrow method.  So, should the trophy be "only if you've solo'd the boss with a short range melee weapon"?  I dunno.  I think a game like this gives you many ways to complete the objectives, one isn't necessarily better than the other.

 

 

I see I am talking to a brick wall then. FOR THE FORTH TIME, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THE WAY PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME AND NEVER SAID ANYTHING ALLUDING TO IT. MY OPINION IS ON THE TROPHIES ONLY, BUT THIS BEING A TROPHY SITE I WOULDN'T EXPECT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

I posted the same topic on Eurogamer, and do you know what? Everyone understood me. Not everyone agreed with me but then I wouldn't expect them to, but at least everyone who replied knew I was talking about the trophies. The clues are in the words. You just have to read them all in order.

 

Yup, I was talking about trophies, too, you were just in full defensive mode and didn't really read what I wrote.  My point being, if it's hardest to beat the boss using only close range melee weapons, like Blade of Mercy, and easier to beat a boss by playing co-op, where do you draw the line regarding what "counts".  If I kill bosses by beefing up bloodtinge and leveling repeating pistol and then buffing bone marrow, so that I never have to get into melee range of the boss, do I "deserve" the trophy?  I did it EZ mode.  You could also argue they should have had trophy for killing boss with over 50 insight, or killing the boss w/o using blood vials.  There's no end to what some people will think is hard and others will not.  So when I was asking if I should get the trophy if I didn't kill the boss in the hardest possible way, yes, I was talking about trophies, and also making my point about people getting trophies differently.  Some games do have hardmode trophies or special trophies for killing bosses in certain ways.  This game, as others have noted, the boss trophies are really story progression, and they chose not to add "difficulty" trophies in.

 

BTW, I've seen plenty of postings on Bb forums to know that, especially in the first few weeks, lots of time summoned allies would just die as well, because they didn't know the tactics either.  As the game gets more established, you're also going to see rival covenant issues where you summon an "ally" and end up with an enemy.

[Kryptiic_v2]

I don't see the problem with it the way it is. I beat the entire game solo, Got the trophies for the bosses but I don't think if you need someones help you should be restricted from getting the trophy. Not everyone Can breeze through all of the bosses first try, not saying I did or anything..... But you get the picture.

[Brawler]

"Work smarter, not harder." comes to mind when I read this. I'd understand if maybe you had said something along the lines of "I wish there had been a trophy for soloing the bosses!" or something like that, but saying that people shouldn't get the existing trophies for playing in co-op just seems silly. Just stick with taking pride in doing it Solo. Don't worry about other people getting the trophy for doing it in co-op. 

[douchebro]

no they should be solo only if they're stated so in their respective trophy details. otherwise, doesn't matter how people earn them as long as its legit.

[Auto-Tomato]

The specific problem with Bloodborne is something I've mentioned before, that the bosses aren't very well balanced at all, a few of the bosses are, or can be, hellish when you first encounter them...yet with just one co-op partner that same boss can be defeated in under a minute...but for me that's an issue with the devs/pubs, not the trophy system, and I'd imagine if the bosses in Bloodborne were built like perhaps they should have been, that they were much harder to co-op than solo...then the OP would be stating that we shouldn't get said trophies for solo because the real challenge is in co-op...without sounding rude, I hope, it's a bit capricious!   I understand the point being made, but then, where do you stop?  Should I get a trophy for completing chapter 1?  Should I get one for finding my first collectible? What about reaching, by way of natural progression, a certain character level?   Or what about silly trophies like...you looked through the telescope at exactly midnight?   I admit that I did feel somewhat the same about the BB bosses, but not the trophy ping, just the imbalance of the game...I'd have earned the trophies regardless...as would the vast majority of us.

 

The trophy system is utilised in all sorts of ways, from game longevity, to simple record keeping, bragging rights is an element, as is reminiscing about those good ol' days...gaming memories.   Some don't even pay attention to it and could care less...   Another point I've made several times is that of the industry needing to pay more attention to the implementation of trophy sets, they can, and have, enhanced games, but too often spoil the experience with ridiculous requirements.   There's no denying there are plenty issues with trophies at times, but the BB example is poor game balance, as I said I felt that way too about the bosses, but really had no concern with the actual trophy popping.

 

Just to add, I disagree that Telltale games shouldn't have a Plat, given how easy they are, in fact, I think it's a good thing.   There are many gamers that 'like' trophies but either are the casual sort, too young to see a Plat through, don't have the time to spend Platting games, nor the skill perhaps, and many other reasons...games like TWD are a nice boost to those gamers, I think of them regarding a trophy profile as somewhat similar to a new IP slowly walking you through the game mechanics...a kind of here's one to get you started, now go earn better ones...if you want.  A beginners Plat if you will, and lets be honest, it's not like there are that many Plats as easy as those...

[JimmyRSX]

How was I personally attacking you? Was it when I said 'Do you think because you soloed Bloodborne you are something special?' Yeah I said that because you spent 2 pages and all of your posts on this website building yourself up as you are some deity of gaming because you got the boss trophies solo and running down those who used co-op. Good for you.

You know what dood, you have problems beyond pacifism as you take everything as an attack on you but fail to realize that you have been on the attack since you got here. Have fun soloing boss fights.

Look man. For the THIRD time now - I HAVE NEVER SAID I AM SOME "DEITY AT GAMING" (what?) OR PUT DOWN ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO CO-OP BOSSES. The fact that you think I "soloed" Bloodborne just shows that you don't read properly. I have said TWICE I'm finding Bloodborne really hard And that I'm only half way through, that I needed to co-op one of the bosses when I just couldnt get it, and that I really like the community element. My opinion was purely on the trophies.

Edit: Apart from a few, the general consensus on here is that trophies should be available to everyone. You know those ultra rare ones you're proud of? How selfish - everybody should be allowed to get those, right? That's what I was talking about when I said people were missing the point of trophies. All I was saying is wouldn't it be better if these ones weren't so easy to get? To increase the worth. I wondered how much rarer they'd be. Not once did I put down those who have earned them the easy way.

Edited April 26, 2015 by rsx901

[SuffyZorugelion]

Meh, I always though the Soul games were more fun with a friend. Too bad it doesnt support full co-op. By all means they could make the game even harder then. I would enjoy that.

[dontwaketheKIDS]

Boss trophies should only unlock if you do it solo on a Waste of Skin, Level 4 run. C'mon, man.

It's hard to make an argument for what the "developers intended" when the co-op mechanic exists in the first place. And honestly, I'm having more fun sharing my Bloodborne experiences and strategies with friends or piecing the lore together than comparing trophies for rarity or caring if they had a co-op partner when they did it or not.

I think you grossly oversimplify why someone may visit this site, be an active member of the community, or display their trophy card in their signature.

[basti_memphis]

i just want to beat the bosses solo, thats why i'll never coop on NG. But i don't care if others want to coop or need to coop. Also i don't care about Trophy rarity.

Coop was always a part of the Soul Series (+ Bloodborne). But i always rang my small bell to help others (same in Dark Souls)

 

 

you want the challenge? Then just beat the Game alone to get the Trophies. Why did you care what other people do?