National Football League Thread

[acasser]

Regarding this whole officiating hullaballoo.... even I think the Patriots have at least a little bit of a gripe for last night.  Seemed to me that Denver got the benefit of the doubt on the borderline stuff, whether it was because the "Football Gods" were smiling upon them or because the game was in Denver and the referees were therefore predisposed to give them the marginal stuff.

 

And in the broader scope of things?  I don't know that the officiating has necessarily been worse this year than most other years, but it's certainly more noticeable now.  I can recall a season that featured some spectacularly egregious calls from the late 1990s -- quite possibly enough to cost Buffalo 2 games and a playoff spot, sufficient to get their Head Coach fired (because he was under a "playoffs or else" ultimatum) among many other sins -- so I'd hesitate to say that it's worse this year than it used to be.

 

They could absolutely do a better job with replay.  And they need to figure out a simple rule for defining a catch because that's turning into the biggest aggravation there is.  Dan Fouts suggested during the Jets-Dolphins telecast that they add a notary to the officiating crew and have him notarize every catch as legit, and he may only have been halfway tongue-in-cheek at the time.

 

It's fixable.  But they have to want to fix it, first.

[Lithium_Lemon]

Does anyone know anything about what happened during the 49er game? I couldn't watch it but I heard the officiating was beyond awful, specifically for the 49ers. Unlike the Patriots I have been told it actually played a huge role in the outcome. I guess the 49ers should have won? If thats the case it only proves my point that Arizona, like Seattle recently, is good some weeks and awful others. 

Great game in Seattle yesterday.  I honestly thought I'd come home deaf but the stadium wasn't anywhere near as loud as I anticipated, but that's probably because the stadium seemed like it was about a quarter full with Steeler fans.  That fanbase definitely travels well.

 

Don't know if I should celebrate the offense finally killing it in the redzone and on 3rd down or panic over the defense giving Big Ben almost 500 passing yards.  Sherman was, as always, solid against Brown but that 2nd corner position is about as scary as can be.  Williams getting benched needed to happen but Shead has only been a slight step up, and that damn middle of the field defense needs to figure something out quick.  They haven't lost enough guys to go from the 3-time #1 overall defense to the chumps that are out there playing now.

 

Anyways, glad that's the last time until the final game of the season that they have to play a potent air-raid offense.  If they can manage a win against the Vikings next week then I'm pretty sure they'll make the playoffs.  Hell, they could do it even if they lose in all honesty.  The Browns, Ravens, and Rams @ home follow the Vikings game and none of those should result in losses, which leaves one more crack at Arizona to finish the season.

I was impressed with Seattle yesterday. The offense played great. It may have been Russell Wilsons best regular season performance of his career, even though the Steelers secondary is suspect. Obviously the Jimmy Graham loss doesn't help, but you guys survived without him last season. BUT this time the defense played mediocre. I know the Steelers offense is one of the best in the league and Seattle did force what, 4 turnovers? Giving up 30 points is nothing to be proud of, even though it may have just been a bad game. I feel like its either one of the other with this team. Either the defense plays like crap and the offense plays well. Or the offense plays like crap and the defense plays well. You guys need to get back to playing both sides of the ball well at the same time. Right now it seems like only Seattle, Arizona, and Green Bay have the actual firepower (When playing good) to dispatch Carolina in the NFC playoffs. I am eager to see how Minnesota vs. Seattle goes. It may be on of the toughest games you guys have had all season. 

[Matto_lsi]

Does anyone know anything about what happened during the 49er game? I couldn't watch it but I heard the officiating was beyond awful, specifically for the 49ers. Unlike the Patriots I have been told it actually played a huge role in the outcome. I guess the 49ers should have won? If thats the case it only proves my point that Arizona, like Seattle recently, is good some weeks and awful others.

 

I am a 49ers fan and watched that game and can't recall offhand what bad call cost them a win.  Arizona was not playing well, but the 49ers didn't really do anything spectacular themselves.  The officiating call that was awful was this one moment when it took the refs about 10 minutes to figure out what down it was.  Arizona was yelling 2nd (they were right), SF was yelling 4th (they were wrong), and the refs settled on 3rd for some reason.  It was pretty terrible, but it definitely didn't cost the 49ers the game.  If anything it took a down away from Arizona.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, the PF for hitting the QB in the head on that sack... well, he did lead with the crown of his helmet and it made contact with Palmer's facemask, so... yeah?  I mean, I don't like it being in the book, but technically it is a penalty.  Of course, all the rules are up for interpretation, so a ref could interpret this as incidental contact, but then again, against the Saints a few years ago the 49ers lost the game cause Ahmed Brooks hit Brees in the chest and they called it a helmet hit, so lolz.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Matto_lsi

[Nihiris-]

"Eli Manning dubbed 'Penguin Boy' in hilarious closed-captioning mishap"

 

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/eli-manning-penguin-boy-closed-captioning-mishap-giants-redskins-113015

 

 

LOL

Edited December 1, 2015 by Death_Ninja

[skidmarkgn]

Does anyone know anything about what happened during the 49er game? I couldn't watch it but I heard the officiating was beyond awful, specifically for the 49ers. Unlike the Patriots I have been told it actually played a huge role in the outcome. I guess the 49ers should have won? If thats the case it only proves my point that Arizona, like Seattle recently, is good some weeks and awful others. 

I was impressed with Seattle yesterday. The offense played great. It may have been Russell Wilsons best regular season performance of his career, even though the Steelers secondary is suspect. Obviously the Jimmy Graham loss doesn't help, but you guys survived without him last season. BUT this time the defense played mediocre. I know the Steelers offense is one of the best in the league and Seattle did force what, 4 turnovers? Giving up 30 points is nothing to be proud of, even though it may have just been a bad game. I feel like its either one of the other with this team. Either the defense plays like crap and the offense plays well. Or the offense plays like crap and the defense plays well. You guys need to get back to playing both sides of the ball well at the same time. Right now it seems like only Seattle, Arizona, and Green Bay have the actual firepower (When playing good) to dispatch Carolina in the NFC playoffs. I am eager to see how Minnesota vs. Seattle goes. It may be on of the toughest games you guys have had all season. 

From what I've seen, the Cardinals game winning drive was pretty much the refs picking up the ball and walking down the field for them.  Capped off by a "roughing the passer" call that was a picture perfect tackle of Palmer.

 

As for the Hawks, Losing Jimmy doesn't worry me too much.  I mean, yeah, it hurts, but Wilson completed to Willson almost immediately afterwards.  Luke is just fine at the position and hopefully teams will continue to underestimate Baldwin and keep letting him burn them.  The Vikings game doesn't make me as nervous as playing a team like Arizona or Pittsburg.  The teams that throw the ball a bazillion times (especially in the middle of the field) are the ones that keep busting Seattle's ass.  Running teams with young QB's on the other hand, that's Seattle's wheel-house.  They played Minnesota a couple of years ago and held AP to well under 100 yards and I think they can do it again.  If the offense can get to the 21-24 range they should be fine.

 

If they do manage to snag a wildcard spot I actually like their chances, especially if they can get a win against the Vikings.  Almost every team they'd have to travel to and play (Panthers, Cardinals, Giants/Cowboys/Reskins, Minnesota/Green bay) are teams they've beat on the road within the last 2 years, with Green Bay being the exception.  Who knows, maybe they'll finally find themselves late and go on a run.  

 

Edit:  have to add in that I think Hell might have froze over.  When they were doing some game updates during the breaks the stadium actually broke out into a huge roar when they saw the 13-13 score that was displayed between the 9ers and cards.  Never thought I'd see Century Link be a pro-49ers stadium but, it happened.

Edited December 1, 2015 by skidmarkgn

[Matto_lsi]

Edit:  have to add in that I think Hell might have froze over.  When they were doing some game updates during the breaks the stadium actually broke out into a huge roar when they saw the 13-13 score that was displayed between the 9ers and cards.  Never thought I'd see Century Link be a pro-49ers stadium but, it happened.

 

Being down 3 games, with Cards having a win already, winning the division is basically out of the question.  There's tie-breaker rules that might favor you if you can tie the Cards, but if they beat you in Arizona, then it's wildcard at best.  I don't see Cards dropping 3 of their next 5 games, even with the shitty performance we saw against the Niners.

[Lithium_Lemon]

Being down 3 games, with Cards having a win already, winning the division is basically out of the question.  There's tie-breaker rules that might favor you if you can tie the Cards, but if they beat you in Arizona, then it's wildcard at best.  I don't see Cards dropping 3 of their next 5 games, even with the shitty performance we saw against the Niners.

Hmm, I could see them dropping 3 games at the most. Its doubtful but possible. Two may be realistic though. It all depends what Vikings and Packers teams show up. When AP is running well and their defense plays decent, the Vikings have a high success rate. When AP doesn't run well, as the Packers clearly proved, the Vikings are in trouble. As for the Packers, even though it looks bleak as of late, I still think they will find themselves and be a force to be reckoned with after the three easily winnable games coming up. Plus, judging on how the next three games go the Packers may be battling for their postseason lives to make the playoffs even though I cannot see them losing any of their next 3 games. I could easily see the NFC playing out like this:

 

1. Panthers (15-1) 

2. Cardinals (12-4)

3. Packers (10-6)

4. Giants or Redskins (8-8)

5. Vikings (10-6) Tie Breaker to Green Bay

6. Seahawks (10-6)

 

That would set up a wildcard game between Green Bay and Seattle in Green Bay and one between the Vikings and Giants/Redskins in NY or Washington. Seattle vs. Greenbay is definitely a playoff game I would love too see, especially at Lambeau.

[Matto_lsi]

Hmm, I could see them dropping 3 games at the most. Its doubtful but possible.

 

Cards dropping 3 would mean one would have to be the Seattle game and the Hawks would have to win out, and even then they'd be relying on tie-breaker rules.  In reality the Hawks have to win out and Arizona needs to drop 4 or 5.  Yeah, it's possible, but I'm 97% confident the Cards win the division.

 

I'm really not sure how the rest of the NFC ends up.  The problem with the Panthers is they could be a team that starts dropping games if they lose.  I remember a 13-0 Saints team who went 0-3 entering the playoffs (though they still won the SB).  I'm really hoping the Panthers do go undefeated, just so the Pats aren't the only team with that stat, lol.

[acasser]

If they do manage to snag a wildcard spot I actually like their chances, especially if they can get a win against the Vikings.  Almost every team they'd have to travel to and play (Panthers, Cardinals, Giants/Cowboys/Reskins, Minnesota/Green bay) are teams they've beat on the road within the last 2 years, with Green Bay being the exception.  Who knows, maybe they'll finally find themselves late and go on a run.  

 

I like Seattle's chances if they can find a way to be the #5 seed, because that will mean playing whomever survives the NFC East.  I don't really like their chances as a #6 seed because I honestly don't see them winning a game in Arizona or Green Bay, and I'm skeptical they'd beat the Vikings in Minnesota.  I watched a good chunk of Steelers-Seahawks yesterday, and Seattle's defense just isn't good enough (in my opinion) to do much against a potent offense.  And while Minnesota is hardly a potent offense, their ability to run the football is a tremendous weapon because that leads to controlling the clock.

 

As the saying goes, the NFL stands for "Not For Long".  And that's my view on Seattle's run, is that it's coming to an end as attrition and free agency pull that team apart like it does most everybody.

[Kubanga]

Seattle was successful because they had Russell Wilson and they never had to pay him franchise qb money. Now they don't have enough cash for upcoming free agents. Hell Jimmy Graham has a big contract and depending on his the seriousness of his injury, may never play in the NFL again. Seattle definitely didint keep tabs on the cap room.

[skidmarkgn]

I like Seattle's chances if they can find a way to be the #5 seed, because that will mean playing whomever survives the NFC East.  I don't really like their chances as a #6 seed because I honestly don't see them winning a game in Arizona or Green Bay, and I'm skeptical they'd beat the Vikings in Minnesota.  I watched a good chunk of Steelers-Seahawks yesterday, and Seattle's defense just isn't good enough (in my opinion) to do much against a potent offense.  And while Minnesota is hardly a potent offense, their ability to run the football is a tremendous weapon because that leads to controlling the clock.

 

As the saying goes, the NFL stands for "Not For Long".  And that's my view on Seattle's run, is that it's coming to an end as attrition and free agency pull that team apart like it does most everybody.

Funny thing is Seattle's defense isn't very different from the team that, at one time not too long ago, feasted on potent offenses.  Right now, they desperately need a 2nd corner who's at least average and they desperately need Kam and Earl to wake the fuck up.  Earl has a bad habit of going for either the hit or the ball and forgetting to try and tackle first.  The Steelers game was a great example of that, I saw him miss at least 3 tackles that game that he had no business blowing.  And Kam.  Don't know how or why he's been playing so poorly (okay, I can hazard a pretty safe gue$$) but the middle of the field used to be the place where Chancellor made you pay for even trying those 5-10 yard little short passes (just ask Vernon Davis about that), now that area's a free-for-all for tight ends.  

Most of the guys the defense lost played corner opposite of Sherman.  First Browner and Thurmond, then Maxwell.  Judging from his play this year it doesn't seem like Maxwell is a great corner but he fit really well into Seattle's system.  Other than that, the only core players that they lost were an aging pass rusher (Clemons), and aging run stopper (Bryant) and Malcolm Smith.  Smith is the only guy on that list who had a good year after moving, I think he's the Raiders #1 tackler right now?  The biggest problems with the defense right now seem to be that their best players aren't playing their best, they've lost their "intimidation factor", and the interior pass rush is non-existent.  The guys on the inside of the line have a combined 0 sacks so far.

 

Arizona, I know they can do it.  Especially since every time they go there the fan base seems to follow.  Green Bay, not so much.  

 

Oh yeah, Jeremy Lane being back should help out quite a bit as well.  Hopefully after a couple of games he'll have enough of his legs back to actually run a pick-6 back all the way instead of flailing and falling after 40 or 50 yards 

Edited December 1, 2015 by skidmarkgn

[Lithium_Lemon]

Seattle was successful because they had Russell Wilson and they never had to pay him franchise qb money. Now they don't have enough cash for upcoming free agents. Hell Jimmy Graham has a big contract and depending on his the seriousness of his injury, may never play in the NFL again. Seattle definitely didint keep tabs on the cap room.

I agree with this 100%. Seattle is in trouble. I am not sure if they will be able to even sign all of their players whose contracts expire within the next few years. I am certain they cannot sign any free agents to help with that despicable offensive line. Combine that with the possibility that Marshawn Lynch is probably packing his bags after this season and suddenly Seattle could end up mediocre, if not bad, once again. 

 

Cards dropping 3 would mean one would have to be the Seattle game and the Hawks would have to win out, and even then they'd be relying on tie-breaker rules.  In reality the Hawks have to win out and Arizona needs to drop 4 or 5.  Yeah, it's possible, but I'm 97% confident the Cards win the division.

 

I'm really not sure how the rest of the NFC ends up.  The problem with the Panthers is they could be a team that starts dropping games if they lose.  I remember a 13-0 Saints team who went 0-3 entering the playoffs (though they still won the SB).  I'm really hoping the Panthers do go undefeated, just so the Pats aren't the only team with that stat, lol.

You put it into words here, but I am beyond skeptical as to how the rest of the season for the Panthers will play out. If their defense doesn't show up for even one game, they will probably blow the streak. Or if their rushing attack gets shut down in any of the remaining games, which is possible. Atlanta had the #1 rush defense before Adrian Peterson ran for 156 on them last game. Lets make it clear though, Jonathan Steward doesn't come close to Adrian Peterson's ability in terms of making plays and running the football.That is actually one reason I favor the Falcons to win one of the two games vs. Carolina. I personally think a loss benefits a team in the long run, but I am not sure how Carolina would react specifically. Cam Newton seems like the happiest dude ever right now and he should be, but would he go back to gloomy, sad Cam as a result of a loss to an "easy" team? I wouldn't put it past him. Drew Brees and the Saints were slightly different as Drew Brees has always seemed to give it his all, even when there was little to no hope. He could react and learn from his defeat, which is why they went on to win the Super Bowl. Cam has been known to put the towel over his head, sit on the bench, and look at the ground if his team is either losing, or about to lose. Its just my opinion, but I have had this gut feeling ever since week 8 or so in regards to Carolina. If/when the Panthers fall, they will fall hard. Do I think Carolina has any shot of going 19-0? Absolutely not. 

[skidmarkgn]

Seattle was successful because they had Russell Wilson and they never had to pay him franchise qb money. Now they don't have enough cash for upcoming free agents. Hell Jimmy Graham has a big contract and depending on his the seriousness of his injury, may never play in the NFL again. Seattle definitely didint keep tabs on the cap room.

If you look at it free-agency hasn't been kind to Seattle at all, unless you count undrafted free agents as "free agency".  The draft is where they do most of their work, especially in the late rounds.  If you look at their current best players, most of them were 4th round picks or later and several went undrafted completely.  The last couple years haven't been anywhere as near as good (damn you Christine Michael!!) but this year they snagged Rawls as an undrafted free agent and Lockett in the 3rd(?) round.  Both of those guys have been immediate impact players.  Next year Lynch and Irvin will almost 100% not be on the team which will open up some money and everyone else that's a "core" guy is already locked up for a while.  Considering the talent they had to juggle I'd say they did a great job handling the cap.  They're not even close to teams like the Saints or Cowboys when it comes to "salary cap hell".

 

And Graham's diagnosis is a 6-9 month recovery.  He'll probably miss some of the early training camp activities but he should be back for the beginning of next season.

I agree with this 100%. Seattle is in trouble. I am not sure if they will be able to even sign all of their players whose contracts expire within the next few years. I am certain they cannot sign any free agents to help with that despicable offensive line. Combine that with the possibility that Marshawn Lynch is probably packing his bags after this season and suddenly Seattle could end up mediocre, if not bad, once again. 

 

Like I said to Kubanga.  Free agency isn't necessarily the answer.  If Lynch goes, which we all expect he will, it already looks like they have someone who can get the job done in Rawls.  He'll probably not be able to carry the team like Lynch and that's why they need Wilson to evolve and be able to be the man that can.  The O-line is a disaster but that's the case in most of the NFL, and I'd bet my nuts that any team with a strong O-line isn't going to look to relieve themselves of it.  With any luck they can draft a servicable O-lineman or two and hope that spending some more time playing together will be enough for those guys to gel.  Even right now they seem to be on the up-swing, we just won't know for sure until they play a team like the Rams.  They say experience is the best teacher out there and right now, most of Seattle's O-line doesn't have much of that... which can be remedied over time.

Edited December 1, 2015 by skidmarkgn

[Kubanga]

If you look at it free-agency hasn't been kind to Seattle at all, unless you count undrafted free agents as "free agency".  The draft is where they do most of their work, especially in the late rounds.  If you look at their current best players, most of them were 4th round picks or later and several went undrafted completely.  The last couple years haven't been anywhere as near as good (damn you Christine Michael!!) but this year they snagged Rawls as an undrafted free agent and Lockett in the 3rd(?) round.  Both of those guys have been immediate impact players.  Next year Lynch and Irvin will almost 100% not be on the team which will open up some money and everyone else that's a "core" guy is already locked up for a while.  Considering the talent they had to juggle I'd say they did a great job handling the cap.  They're not even close to teams like the Saints or Cowboys when it comes to "salary cap hell".

 

And Graham's diagnosis is a 6-9 month recovery.  He'll probably miss some of the early training camp activities but he should be back for the beginning of next season.

Remember Jimmy weighs 265 pounds. I highly doubt he will EVER be the same player he used to be when he comes back, and while Seattle could probably have kept Irvin and Lynch if they didint give Wilson that god awful contract. He had a good game this week but he can't really do anything with the patchwork offensive line. I dunno, the Graham trade keeps looking worse and worse. Hell if Graham is as good as he used to be, it's not like it'd matter cause Bevell would just have him block 75% of the time anyways.

[Conker]

OMG THAT ENDING

A Blocked game winning FG taken back for TD, just WOW! Ravens WOW

Also it continues all Ravens game this season finish with a deficit of 8 or less

Edited December 1, 2015 by Jare

[Zio_Sam87]

I am a 49ers fan and watched that game and can't recall offhand what bad call cost them a win.  Arizona was not playing well, but the 49ers didn't really do anything spectacular themselves.  The officiating call that was awful was this one moment when it took the refs about 10 minutes to figure out what down it was.  Arizona was yelling 2nd (they were right), SF was yelling 4th (they were wrong), and the refs settled on 3rd for some reason.  It was pretty terrible, but it definitely didn't cost the 49ers the game.  If anything it took a down away from Arizona.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, the PF for hitting the QB in the head on that sack... well, he did lead with the crown of his helmet and it made contact with Palmer's facemask, so... yeah?  I mean, I don't like it being in the book, but technically it is a penalty.  Of course, all the rules are up for interpretation, so a ref could interpret this as incidental contact, but then again, against the Saints a few years ago the 49ers lost the game cause Ahmed Brooks hit Brees in the chest and they called it a helmet hit, so lolz.

 

I'm not as expert as you, but I can say this with the help of what broadcasters said (please correct me if I'm wrong I appreciate if I can learn more about game/rules):

Arizona second drive, Palmer threw near the sideline to (?) who walked out, returned in and caught the ball... Mike Perreira said it was an incomplete pass (3rd and long, about midfiled if i recall right), but referees called for a penalty against Arizona, repeating the snap. They advanced to FG range and scored 3 point.

Dial sack turned into a PF, you already explained that technically it is a penalty, but almost everyone could see it was incidental, with Palmer's head going up in the last second.

Arizona winning TD, referees called tons of penalties, most of them was pass interference. I can remember broadcasters said "I don't know what they're calling, I'm speechless." before start a loud laugh. I'm not sure if I understand what theysaid, but a PI should be called when receiver is the target of the pass right? Instead 2 of them was thrown to the left sideline, and the PI called against the slot route (going to the right).

 

About the 10 minute down decision (that did not cost anyone), they said there was a fast 1st-10 with no huddle, and then the 2nd snap stopped by niners D. So 3rd was correct... Tomsula yelling 4th was just another prove he's an idiot, but hey, he wanted to play a defensive snap with 13-man late in the quarter so it's clear he can't count correctly!

[AgaveAttenuata]

That Ravens finish was phenomenal. The blocked FG dropping down to Will Hill really got my heart racing. Seeing him gave me hope for next season that our defense might not be as dodgy as it has been all year. Really lucky finish but take what you can get with Schaub even on the field. Buck Allen was great. Found gaps and got some yards, might be the one to take over Forsett's job in the future 

[Matto_lsi]

I'm not as expert as you, but I can say this with the help of what broadcasters said (please correct me if I'm wrong I appreciate if I can learn more about game/rules):

Arizona second drive, Palmer threw near the sideline to (?) who walked out, returned in and caught the ball... Mike Perreira said it was an incomplete pass (3rd and long, about midfiled if i recall right), but referees called for a penalty against Arizona, repeating the snap. They advanced to FG range and scored 3 point.

Dial sack turned into a PF, you already explained that technically it is a penalty, but almost everyone could see it was incidental, with Palmer's head going up in the last second.

Arizona winning TD, referees called tons of penalties, most of them was pass interference. I can remember broadcasters said "I don't know what they're calling, I'm speechless." before start a loud laugh. I'm not sure if I understand what theysaid, but a PI should be called when receiver is the target of the pass right? Instead 2 of them was thrown to the left sideline, and the PI called against the slot route (going to the right).

 

About the 10 minute down decision (that did not cost anyone), they said there was a fast 1st-10 with no huddle, and then the 2nd snap stopped by niners D. So 3rd was correct... Tomsula yelling 4th was just another prove he's an idiot, but hey, he wanted to play a defensive snap with 13-man late in the quarter so it's clear he can't count correctly!

 

TBH, I'd have to rewatch some of these plays.  I watched about 10 hours of football on Sunday and it's all getting garbled together.  The string of defensive penalties reminds me of the Ravens-Pats game back in 07 when the Ravens should have won, but the refs kept calling silly penalties against the Ravens D.  Finally they broke down out of frustration and started actually committing a few fouls, including throwing one of the refs yellow flags into the stands.  The Pats never should have been 16-0 that year, they didn't deserve it, the refs handed them a few wins, including the Ravens one.  The only difference between that game and this one is that while the Niners D was playing well, they couldn't score on offense.  If the Cards didn't score on that controversial drive, they probably would have in OT.  I just have very little faith in my team this year after seeing them play like shit one week (the Hawks game, oye...) and then play semi-decently the next week against a similarly difficult opponent.

 

However, I did think this was an amazing incomplete TD catch, lol.

The Niners got lucky on this one as the ball bounced off Wilhoutte's foot before I think his other foot touched down out of bounds, but it's impossible to know for sure from this angle.

 

In regards to to which down it was, I couldn't find a replay, but I found an article saying that Fitz caught a ball for a first down and the Cards went to the hurry up (I remember that), and on the next play they ran it for 2 yards.  However, the Niners had 13 men on the field, so they got a penalty.  It was a live ball penalty on 1st down, so it should have been 1st and 5, but the refs marked off 5 after the run, so it was 2nd and 3.  I can't remember what happened on the next play, but that's where they were saying 3rd down, and Arians was saying no it's 2nd and he was right.  Tomsula was saying 4th cause he's an idiot.  The reason it was 3rd was because they played the 2nd and 3 down as 2nd down when it should have been 1st.  But since it was 1st, they should have re-spotted the ball 2 yards back from where it was, so they had no choice but to keep the downs as they were.  The real problem here is that the refs couldn't mark off a simple penalty.

 

All in all the refs were terrible that whole day, and that drive ended in a field goal for the Cards when it more than likely would have been a TD had the refs not messed it up.  I think a lot of things went the Cards way on Sunday, but because the refs were so bad, it's hard to know what the proper game outcome should have been.  In the end the Cards are going to the playoffs and the Niners aren't, so I guess I'm not all that upset about them 'winning' this game cause a Cards win helps secure the division for them over the Hawks, and if my Niners can't be first, I'd definitely prefer the Cards over the Hawks.  Not sure on the Rams, I'd say I prefer them over the Hawks too normally, but they're such a dirty team that I can't get behind them in any way.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Matto_lsi

[Matto_lsi]

And now McCown is done for the year with a broken Collarbone.  These new rules are really protecting QBs better... *rolls eyes*

 

I'm scared to make a list of all the injuries to starting QBs, as I fear it will be almost the same as the number of teams in the NFL.

[Kubanga]

Poor brownies. It just never ends for them smh.

[Matto_lsi]

Poor brownies. It just never ends for them smh.

 

I was mad cause other than the Packers and Patriots, this was my only other bad pick for the week, and I should have got it! lol  Stupid Browns...

 

Although, for shits and giggles, here's the only other time this has happened in Super Bowl era NFL football:

[skidmarkgn]

Remember Jimmy weighs 265 pounds. I highly doubt he will EVER be the same player he used to be when he comes back, and while Seattle could probably have kept Irvin and Lynch if they didint give Wilson that god awful contract. He had a good game this week but he can't really do anything with the patchwork offensive line. I dunno, the Graham trade keeps looking worse and worse. Hell if Graham is as good as he used to be, it's not like it'd matter cause Bevell would just have him block 75% of the time anyways.

With the way NFL players are put back together so quickly and efficiently these days I'm not that concerned about his performance when he comes back.  I guess there's always a chance he'll be done but I just don't see that as a career killer.  The worst part about the injury was the timing.  It seemed like Wilson and Bevell were just starting to understand how to use him and BAM he's down.

Gonna double post here but, whatever.  

 

Just saw the Seattle/Baltimore game was pushed out of the Sunday night spot, which is bullshit.  I get that Seattle has been mediocre this year and Baltimore is working with a skeleton crew but this adjustment now gives Seattle back to back 10AM road games.  That alone isn't a huge deal but the schedule as a whole has had the opening 2 games on the road (one of which was a 10AM start), a Monday night game followed by a 10AM road game, 4 consecutive home games against a team coming off of a bye (Carolina, Arizona, San Fran, Pittsburg) and now back to back 10AM road games.  I mean, c'mon already.

[acasser]

I'm scared to make a list of all the injuries to starting QBs, as I fear it will be almost the same as the number of teams in the NFL.

 

I've heard far too many players at every position say this: the rules about "targeting" and whatnot designed to improve player safety aren't worth a damn.  For every concussion you might prevent, you've got a guy with a knee injury or whatnot because the defender went low to avoid the penalty.

 

Another factor I'd consider is thus: they're getting a lot better at diagnosing injuries and pulling players out of games (or keeping them out once pulled).  Listen to the television analysts (studio and color commentary) who used to be players; most every one of them talks about how they used to go right back into games with stuff that they can't do the same for nowadays.  And that's before you get to those same ex-players in comfortable suits calling today's players "soft" and every other name in the book as well.

 

There are still too many injuries, but there are a ton of reasons why that's the case.  I feel the same way about the number of kids who are doped up on all sorts of modern pharmacology and diagnosed with every ailment in the book by today's doctors for stuff that was considered "normal" when I was growing up.  (And my "growing up" wasn't all that long ago.)

 

....

 

Regarding the officiating for Arizona-San Francisco, the NFL has announced that the crew in question has been removed from this upcoming Sunday night's game (Pittsburgh and Indy, if I recall correctly) and re-assigned to Eagles/Patriots.  So I guess the League isn't particularly thrilled with them, either.

Edited December 1, 2015 by acasser

[Matto_lsi]

I've heard far too many players at every position say this: the rules about "targeting" and whatnot designed to improve player safety aren't worth a damn.  For every concussion you might prevent, you've got a guy with a knee injury or whatnot because the defender went low to avoid the penalty.

 

Another factor I'd consider is thus: they're getting a lot better at diagnosing injuries and pulling players out of games (or keeping them out once pulled).  Listen to the television analysts (studio and color commentary) who used to be players; most every one of them talks about how they used to go right back into games with stuff that they can't do the same for nowadays.  And that's before you get to those same ex-players in comfortable suits calling today's players "soft" and every other name in the book as well.

 

There are still too many injuries, but there are a ton of reasons why that's the case.  I feel the same way about the number of kids who are doped up on all sorts of modern pharmacology and diagnosed with every ailment in the book by today's doctors for stuff that was considered "normal" when I was growing up.  (And my "growing up" wasn't all that long ago.)

 

Yeah, I hear what you're saying.  As a Niners fan I watched Steve Young suffer 7 or 8 concussions and Joe Montana get knocked out of a couple games every season in the late 80s.  But at the same time I don't recall this many QB injuries in a single season, even in the last few seasons leading up to the rule change, which wasn't that long ago.  I mean look at this weeks games!  2 QBs went down with broken Collarbones (Romo and McCown), and Roethlesberger went out with a concussion.  Those first 2 are major season ending injuries.  You throw in that Ben was already injured earlier this year, Flacco's out for the season, Peyton's foot, Hoyer's concussion, Teddy B's concussion, Luck's lacerated kidneys, Fitzpatrick's hand, Bradford's concussion, Keenum's concussion, Kaep's shoulder, Tyrod's shoulder... I mean it doesn't really look like starting QBs are all that well protected.

 

And yeah, I heard Ronde Barber say after that Dial PF on Palmer in the Niners game 'they're soft, maybe they should just play flag football', haha.  To be fair, I didn't see Palmer complaining about that one the way Brees did when Brooks hit him LEGALLY a couple seasons ago.

 

And you're right about protocols being better compared to the past, but if you have broken bones you're not coming back into the game, and I only remember seeing that rarely.  2 collarbones in 1 weekend of football is pretty high, especially coming off the prior week where I know of at least 2 other non-head related QB injuries.  But for concussions solely, yeah, they're diagnosing them better, so it makes sense we'd see more of them.  But torn knee ligaments was a career ending injury in the 80s and 90s, but now people come back from that in a season.  Gronk, Peterson, Bowman, hell even Carson Palmer all have.  We'll see if Graham, Flacco, and others can too...

[acasser]

@Matto_Isi:  Here's another question on the injury issue:  Are players rushing back from injuries too quickly and therefore getting hurt again because they were never fully healthy in the first place?  And/or are they playing through things that they might otherwise sit out for?

 

I'm not delving very much into the "why" at the moment -- there are probably a thousand potential reasons that make at least some sense -- just whether or not it might be happening.  We've seen guys we know who are injured playing, and that can't be helping.  It wouldn't stop a rash of freak collarbone injuries, but we've seen several Quarterbacks playing hurt:  Roethlisberger and Peyton and Ryan Fitzpatrick all come to mind without much effort.