Matto_lsi Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 @Matto_Isi: Here's another question on the injury issue: Are players rushing back from injuries too quickly and therefore getting hurt again because they were never fully healthy in the first place? And/or are they playing through things that they might otherwise sit out for? I'm not delving very much into the "why" at the moment -- there are probably a thousand potential reasons that make at least some sense -- just whether or not it might be happening. We've seen guys we know who are injured playing, and that can't be helping. It wouldn't stop a rash of freak collarbone injuries, but we've seen several Quarterbacks playing hurt: Roethlisberger and Peyton and Ryan Fitzpatrick all come to mind without much effort. Oh yeah, definitely, especially when it comes to QBs. Romo is a perfect example, he rushed back from breaking his collarbone earlier this year and on his second start after returning (against Carolina), he re-broke the same collarbone. I'm sure Jerry Jones was pushing for his swift return since the Cowboys went 0-7 without Romo, but it's a terrible call, especially with your franchise QB. But this definitely happens, especially with QBs, because they are the offense. It's incredibly rare that a backup comes in and plays at or above the level of the starting QB. So when a player that important goes down, I'm sure owners want them back as soon as possible. Players also are very competitive, so I'm sure they want the fastest (and not necessarily the best) treatment path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidmarkgn Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 @Matto_Isi: Here's another question on the injury issue: Are players rushing back from injuries too quickly and therefore getting hurt again because they were never fully healthy in the first place? And/or are they playing through things that they might otherwise sit out for? I'm not delving very much into the "why" at the moment -- there are probably a thousand potential reasons that make at least some sense -- just whether or not it might be happening. We've seen guys we know who are injured playing, and that can't be helping. It wouldn't stop a rash of freak collarbone injuries, but we've seen several Quarterbacks playing hurt: Roethlisberger and Peyton and Ryan Fitzpatrick all come to mind without much effort. Roethlisberger had to take himself out of the Seahawks game. The Bennett hit was the one that fucked him up and he played several snaps afterwards right underneath the coach and medical staff's noses. Doubt he would have been taken out at all if he hadn't finally done it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zio_Sam87 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Oh yeah, definitely, especially when it comes to QBs. Romo is a perfect example, he rushed back from breaking his collarbone earlier this year and on his second start after returning (against Carolina), he re-broke the same collarbone. I'm sure Jerry Jones was pushing for his swift return since the Cowboys went 0-7 without Romo, but it's a terrible call, especially with your franchise QB. But this definitely happens, especially with QBs, because they are the offense. It's incredibly rare that a backup comes in and plays at or above the level of the starting QB. So when a player that important goes down, I'm sure owners want them back as soon as possible. Players also are very competitive, so I'm sure they want the fastest (and not necessarily the best) treatment path. Sorry, I have to joke on this one... Gabbert over Kaep... Oh well, it's still crap over crap, but it's funny to say that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto_lsi Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Sorry, I have to joke on this one... Gabbert over Kaep... Oh well, it's still crap over crap, but it's funny to say that lol Yeah, Gabbert is doing better, but Kaep had regressed so bad we could have pulled a local high school kid off the street and got similar results. Gabbert is better, but he was still wildly missing open receivers the last few weeks, similar to Kaep in the end. He's just new to SF, so the fans will tolerate him for a while. When I think of back-ups coming in and succeeding I think of Brady replacing Bledsoe. Kaep came in for an injured Alex Smith and did great for a few months, but it was downhill after that. Meanwhile Brady has performed at a high level for well over a decade now. Another that comes to mind is Steve Young. He gets no credit for those last 2 SB wins during the Montana era, but Montana was hurt almost half of each of those seasons, including playoffs, and Young won as many or more games as a starter those 2 years than Montana did, so he earned those rings, plus he went on to be the 49ers starter for almost another decade and had a lot of success completely on his own, including another SB win. It's rare these days to see that kind of legacy left behind by a back-up QB. Usually its flashes of brilliance with no long term stability. That's why I'm nervous by Osweiler in Denver and very hesitant to say he'll lead the team after Manning. As a back-up there's very little pressure, but once you become the new starter it's sink or swim with no life preserver in site. Matt Cassel came in for Brady in '08 and got them to 11-5, and after a season or two in KC, he's been a permanent back-up since. Matt Flynn came in the final regular season game of Green Bay's 15-1 season and beat a Detroit team that needed a win to make the playoffs, but on top of that he set multiple all-time records in Lambeau that day, even outdoing anything Rodgers and Favre have done to date. Where is he now? Who knows, maybe a 3rd stringer somewhere, maybe not, haven't heard his name is ages. And we all know what happened with Kaep in SF. Oh, and speaking of Rodgers, he goes in that earlier category with Young and Brady as a back-up who actually paid off. But yeah, I was speaking more to the potential for long term success as it's very rare to plug a back-up QB into your line-up when your starter/franchise QB goes down and find out you were harboring a Young or Brady the whole time. Though when that happens it must be quite the revelation for the coaching staff, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conker Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 My Week 13 NFL Tips Packers over Lions Bucs over Falcons Texans over Bills Bears over 49ers Bengals over Browns Jags over Titans Cardinals over Rams Ravens over Dolphins Vikings over Seahawks Giants over Jets Broncos and over Chargers Chiefs over Raiders Patriots over Eagles Panthers over Saints Steelers over Colts My Cowboys over Redskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar_Of_Battle Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 HAHAHAHAHAHA SO FCKING HAPPY THE PACKERS GOT THAT. That's one of those movie moments for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conker Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Wow, a Just WOW Another thrilling finish in the NFL, so last 2 games have had crazy finishes, Detroit's season is done and A.Rodgers keeps the Packers in the NFC NORTH race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium_Lemon Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Wow, a Just WOW Another thrilling finish in the NFL, so last 2 games have had crazy finishes, Detroit's season is done and A.Rodgers keeps the Packers in the NFC NORTH race Yeah the Packers are a big problem for any NFC team in the playoffs. Even on the road. I see them winning either all or all but one of their remaining games. There is an incredibly small chance (5%?) they catch up to Arizona and get a first round bye. Minnesota is good, but not good enough to win 4 out of 5 of their last games, unless Adrian Peterson runs for 150-200+ in every game. I see Minnesota getting a wild card spot for certain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto_lsi Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Fucking Rodgers... I picked the Lions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihiris- Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Holy crap that Hail Mary win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubanga Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Pretty sad the lions lost that game. They were the better team for 3 quarters. Also that facemask call that gave the Pack the extra play to win the game is probably the worst call I've seen all year. The dudes thumb grazed the facemask and it was called a penalty. Only because it was Aaron Rodgers complaining about it. Put in any other qb not named Brady, Wilson, Manning or Rodgers and it won't be called. Edited December 4, 2015 by Kubanga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acasser Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 The Lions have no one to blame but themselves. When you lead a game 17-0 after one quarter and 20-0 in the second half, you ought to put it away no matter who you're playing. And while the facemask penalty that extended the game might have been ticky-tack or even illusionary, they still should have won the game. They botched the defense on the Hail Mary and I'd love to know why Megatron wasn't back there on defense given Green Bay didn't really have any other options -- you put your good, tall Wide Receivers in on defense to knock a Hail Mary down (or catch them like Johnson could). The moral of last night's story? When he needs a break from hating Cleveland and Buffalo, God hates the Detroit Lions. The other moral of last night's story? If by some miracle the Detroit Lions should ever meet either the Buffalo Bills or the Cleveland Browns in the Super Bowl, those are matchups that will break the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium_Lemon Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Pretty sad the lions lost that game. They were the better team for 3 quarters. Also that facemask call that gave the Pack the extra play to win the game is probably the worst call I've seen all year. The dudes thumb grazed the facemask and it was called a penalty. Only because it was Aaron Rodgers complaining about it. Put in any other qb not named Brady, Wilson, Manning or Rodgers and it won't be called. Your smoking something good if you thought THAT was the worst penalty all season. You have got to be kidding me seriously. It would have been called if Rodgers didn't react, since the flags were down almost before he reacted. Plus the dude that tackled him didn't even see the flags go down and he knew it was a penalty. You could see him put his head down immediately after the tackle. He knew it was a facemask. If you want to talk about a suspect call it was the play moments before when Rodgers went deep to Abberdaris. The Detroit corner ran straight into the reciever, while the ball was nowhere close. He didn't allow the receiver to come back to the ball. That penalty would have brought them to what the 30 yard line? Would have had a better chance to score a 40 yard field goal then a 70 yard hail mary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto_lsi Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Your smoking something good if you thought THAT was the worst penalty all season. You have got to be kidding me seriously. It would have been called if Rodgers didn't react, since the flags were down almost before he reacted. Plus the dude that tackled him didn't even see the flags go down and he knew it was a penalty. You could see him put his head down immediately after the tackle. He knew it was a facemask. If you want to talk about a suspect call it was the play moments before when Rodgers went deep to Abberdaris. The Detroit corner ran straight into the reciever, while the ball was nowhere close. He didn't allow the receiver to come back to the ball. That penalty would have brought them to what the 30 yard line? Would have had a better chance to score a 40 yard field goal then a 70 yard hail mary. I don't know about the other missed penalties you're referring to, but that was not a facemask in any way. I can see why it was called, cause at full speed it looked like one, but that was clean, it broke no known rules, and the refs got it wrong. Again, I can see why they called it, but this is why penalties need to be reviewable, cause we can say with 100% certainty that the refs calling that facemask changed the outcome of the game. In general, the refs have been terrible this year with bad calls/no-calls, we can all agree on that, it's fact as this point. And while it's been going both ways for most teams, at the same time it's decided a few games. Considering how many teams are mediocre right now, as long as one of the better teams wins the SB, it'll all be ok, but it would really suck if the SB winning team this year was one of the current 5-6 teams that slinks into the playoffs because the refs handed them a couple games. Sure, if they win without controversy in the playoffs, that's something, but if you can only win in the playoffs and play like crap all year, you don't deserve to be there in the first place. As a Niners fan I would be embarrassed if they somehow snatched up the final wildcard spot with a 7 or 8 win season. I'm already embarrassed for the Colts as well, as they may still win their division with a losing record. Unless you're a fan of one of the very few teams with a standout winning record (Pats, Broncos, Panthers, Cardinals, Bengals, Vikings), then this is a bad year for football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acasser Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't know about the other missed penalties you're referring to, but that was not a facemask in any way. I can see why it was called, cause at full speed it looked like one, but that was clean, it broke no known rules, and the refs got it wrong. Again, I can see why they called it, but this is why penalties need to be reviewable, cause we can say with 100% certainty that the refs calling that facemask changed the outcome of the game.. Yeah, it was a bad call. And it does need to be reviewable, at least when a penalty has such an outsized impact on things. But let's not let the Lions off the hook. Their coaching for the final play was atrocious. So was their personnel selection. And unlike the "Fail Mary" from a few years back, the Lions had every opportunity to still win the game after the botched call and simply didn't execute. It's comforting to blame the officials who have been noticeably bad a number of times this year. But make a fucking play, especially against a play that works maybe 5% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubanga Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Your smoking something good if you thought THAT was the worst penalty all season. You have got to be kidding me seriously. It would have been called if Rodgers didn't react, since the flags were down almost before he reacted. Plus the dude that tackled him didn't even see the flags go down and he knew it was a penalty. You could see him put his head down immediately after the tackle. He knew it was a facemask. If you want to talk about a suspect call it was the play moments before when Rodgers went deep to Abberdaris. The Detroit corner ran straight into the reciever, while the ball was nowhere close. He didn't allow the receiver to come back to the ball. That penalty would have brought them to what the 30 yard line? Would have had a better chance to score a 40 yard field goal then a 70 yard hail mary. Rodgers should win an Emmy for making it look like he got his head yanked around. Penalties need to be reviewable and penalties need to be handed out for players who are clearly flopping just like in the NBA. It was probably the WORST CALL I've seen all year most likely. It's between that and KJ Wright batting the fumble out of the end zone. Kinda ironic that it's the good ol lions getting fucked on both cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium_Lemon Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Rodgers should win an Emmy for making it look like he got his head yanked around. Penalties need to be reviewable and penalties need to be handed out for players who are clearly flopping just like in the NBA. It was probably the WORST CALL I've seen all year most likely. It's between that and KJ Wright batting the fumble out of the end zone. Kinda ironic that it's the good ol lions getting fucked on both cases. I agree with you that they need to be reviewable, but there needs to be some sort of limit for each team because otherwise the games would last way too long when 20+ penalties go under review. The K.J Wright play actually was the one I was thinking of when I wrote my statement by the way. As for Rodgers. Yeah, he did "sell" the penalty just like NBA players tend to do. The point I am making is at full speed, it was way too difficult for a referee to distinguish whether or not a finger came in contact with Rodgers' facemask from 30 feet away. Referees are good but they can't see that, which is why I say it wasn't a bad call. The K.J Wright play on the other hand the referee was standing directly at the back of the end zone, probably 5-10 feet from K.J Wright. He clearly could easily see it was batted, which is what makes that call 1000% worse than the Rodgers call. Plus in the case of the Packers I don't believe they should have been in that position anyway. That play deep to Abberdaris a few plays before was, to me, clearly defensive pass interference. Mike Carey came on and said it was a good call, but I still can't see how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar_Of_Battle Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Still think the worst referee screw up was calling Brady out of bounds when he was clearly 5 feet in bounds.... Then again I suppose it wasn't a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidmarkgn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I agree with you that they need to be reviewable, but there needs to be some sort of limit for each team because otherwise the games would last way too long when 20+ penalties go under review. Instead of a limit on numbers they should just make so only calls that happen with less than 2 minutes in the game are reviewable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubanga Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jq96fNcL0qI What the actual fuck is this shit? Edited December 6, 2015 by Kubanga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto_lsi Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 What the actual fuck is this shit? Wow. That one wasn't even close, you'd have to be trippin balls to think someone was offside on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubanga Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Wow. That one wasn't even close, you'd have to be trippin balls to think someone was offside on that play. It also looks as if the ref threw the flag when the Clemson player bobbled the ball. Not saying it was to let Clemson win but.. That flag is shady as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidmarkgn Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Seahawks finally put up that mythical "complete game". 18 yards for AP and zero offensive touchdowns for the Vikings combined with another 3 TD/0 pick day for Wilson, a 100+ yard day for Rawls and a great game from Baldwin. One special teams boner away from a shutout right after winning a shootout. Next 3 games should be wins followed by a good one against the team that took their spot. Exciting times at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium_Lemon Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Seahawks finally put up that mythical "complete game". 18 yards for AP and zero offensive touchdowns for the Vikings combined with another 3 TD/0 pick day for Wilson, a 100+ yard day for Rawls and a great game from Baldwin. One special teams boner away from a shutout right after winning a shootout. Next 3 games should be wins followed by a good one against the team that took their spot. Exciting times at the end of the season. You guys played well. You deserved the win. I am actually happy you won since my Packers now lead the NFC North. But they ran Adrian Peterson 8 times? 8? Really? The best running back in football? The team with the #1 rushing attack in football ran a total of 12 times? That is a damn disgrace to be honest. Im not sure who the hell is calling plays in Minnesota, but they should be fired immediately. It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game but I am beyond pissed. It reminded me of week 1 when the Vikings got blown the hell out vs. San Francisco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conker Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Now this might be considered crazy, but since Gabbert started the 49ers, he's been playing really well, so is it crazy to think he could be there starting qb for next season? P.s after Titans win, Browns now in #1 position for the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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