Bungie Admits XP Throttling in Destiny 2

[Swotam]

Depending on how much time you spend in the Reddit /DTG salt mines, you may or may not be aware of this issue. Basically, several players on the subreddit noticed that XP gains displayed on screen didn't match the actual amount of XP being accrued. They did some testing, results are described here.

 

Long story short, the faster you earn XP, the less you actually gain. This in itself isn't a shocking development, since Bungie is already known to throttle progression in various ways, however the thing that is pissing most people off is the fact that they were basically lying about this in the game itself. Depending on what you were doing, and how frequently you were doing it, you could end up earning up to 95% less XP than the game was telling you was earned. For example, you complete a Public Event and the game displays on screen that you earned 5000 XP but in reality you only earned 200 XP.

 

After several days of this getting traction on Reddit, Bungie responded with this: https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/46494

 

Basically, they got caught deceiving customers and intentionally hiding this information, players found out anyway, and now they're "apologizing" for it not working in a way they like. To me, that sounds like "shit, you caught us red handed, time to make up excuses".

 

Of course, the logical extension of this for many is that this is, yet another, mechanic intended to drive MT sales. Players who have hit the level 20 cap (and at this point, aside from the most casual player, who hasn't) typically use XP as a means to get Bright Engrams for free. By throttling XP gains while simultaneously displaying a false amount in the UI, people suspect this is a mechanic intended to make players feel that grinding XP takes too long so maybe buying Silver to purchase Bright Engrams (Loot Boxes) would be better. Obviously not everyone plays D2 just to get free loot boxes, but enough players see that as a reward worth grinding for and take issue when the amount of grinding is artificially increased without any notification while displaying deceptive notifications about gains.

 

To me personally, I just think it's disgusting what Bungie has become either through or with their involvement with Activision. I'm not one of those people who think Bungie can do no wrong, so I don't blame Activision entirely for this, but once you start intentionally deceiving your customers and only admitting to it when you get caught, that's a sign that things aren't heading in the right direction. For many, this may be the last straw.

 

I was already done with Destiny 2 since I got the Platinum, got bored with the game, and moved on. Luckily I didn't make the mistake of pre-ordering the Expansion Pass since that's looking pretty underwhelming at this point. With this news, I'm pretty much done with Bungie period. I don't like what they've become, I don't like the direction they are taking the franchise, and I don't like the way they treat or relate to their customers. It's the principle of the thing. A company that is willing to knowingly deceive customers for their own gain (regardless of how often this happens day to day in the real world), is not a company I want to do business with.

 

TL;DR Bungie lied to customers about XP gains, presumably to push MT purchases, and only admitted it when they got caught. People are angry because nobody likes finding out they've been lied to and because they had hoped that Bungie might be better than that.

 

Thoughts?

 

Edit: Bungie has now "fixed" the issue by disabling the XP scaling / reduction system. At the same time they also doubled the amount of XP needed to level up (was ~80,000 before, now it's 160,000), so at the end of the day nothing has really changed except now players will actually get the XP the game says they earned, and we all know that Bungie are the asshats that many hoped they wouldn't become once they jumped in bed with Activision.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Swotam
Added info on Bungie fix

[Happy]

I’ll be kind enough to give them the benefit of the doubt here and assume the point of this progression throttling is to increase the longevity of the game for more active players rather than getting them to spend extra money. In this case i’d have suggested that actually adding more actual content to the game would have achieved the desired effect in a much better fashion than outright lying to your playerbase.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Happy

[Swotam]

2 minutes ago, Happy said:

In this case i’d have suggested that actually adding more actual content to the game would have achieved the desired effect in a much better fashion than outright lying to your playerbase.

 

Agreed. Displaying accurate XP gain info in the game UI would have been a good idea as well. Throttling in itself isn't deceptive, as long as you let players know you're doing it. But lying about the gains is something else entirely, and that's what has led to such an uproar.

[turpinator1986]

I’d like to think they did it stop people becoming ridiculously OP and widening the gap between the casual player and someone who spams the game 24/7 to get advantages. However they’re a company who are only interested in sales so it’s probs the micro transaction thing. 

[SnowxSakura]

8 minutes ago, turpinator1986 said:

I’d like to think they did it stop people becoming ridiculously OP and widening the gap between the casual player and someone who spams the game 24/7 to get advantages. However they’re a company who are only interested in sales so it’s probs the micro transaction thing. 

The loot boxes don't have any pay to win items in them, just cosmetic items. 

[Valyrious]

It is kind of funny how people make excuses for Bungie. They are clearly incorporating shitty practices, and people still defend them. Well, I know what it's like to want to defend something you love, but defending a corporation that can and should be accounted for their decisions is silly. I just hope they're paying those people off with Silver or something, at the very least. So their blind defending has some actual meaning besides fanboyism.

[nyonmyan]

Bungie were lying scumbags before D2. "You will be able to visit every planet in Destiny", "your gear will matter in Iron Banner", etc.

 

They obviously still have some talents in the studio, but they're wasted on the soulless product.

[HardXDXtraga]

30 minutes ago, nyonmyan said:

Bungie were lying scumbags before D2. "You will be able to visit every planet in Destiny", "your gear will matter in Iron Banner", etc.

 

They obviously still have some talents in the studio, but they're wasted on the soulless product.

Immediatly reminded me of this:

Cracked me up the first time I saw it ?

[Beyondthegrave07]

I think it's disgusting that companies are intentionally trying to deceive players like this, big or small. I think it insults our intelligence of those who are aware of these practices and preys on the naivety of those who are not aware of this. 

[Swotam]

3 hours ago, turpinator1986 said:

I’d like to think they did it stop people becoming ridiculously OP and widening the gap between the casual player and someone who spams the game 24/7 to get advantages. However they’re a company who are only interested in sales so it’s probs the micro transaction thing. 

 

That would make sense if XP had anything to do with progression once you hit level 20. Unfortunately, it doesn't. The only purpose of XP after you hit max level is to award a loot box each time you "level up". Also, with the way the game is currently designed it's virtually impossible to become ridiculously OP because everything is so generic that nobody can be better than anyone at anything, period.

 

So yeah, if XP actually counted for power or abilities then it would make sense, but in the current design of the game it accomplishes nothing except to make it take longer to get a free loot box.

[theSpirae]

Oh, Destiny 2, why am I not surprised. My biggest disappointment this year and I regret buying it.

I hope this is going to negatively impact their sales as this kind of behaviour is unacceptable.

[turpinator1986]

11 hours ago, Swotam said:

 

That would make sense if XP had anything to do with progression once you hit level 20. Unfortunately, it doesn't. The only purpose of XP after you hit max level is to award a loot box each time you "level up". Also, with the way the game is currently designed it's virtually impossible to become ridiculously OP because everything is so generic that nobody can be better than anyone at anything, period.

 

So yeah, if XP actually counted for power or abilities then it would make sense, but in the current design of the game it accomplishes nothing except to make it take longer to get a free loot box.

 

If that’s the case then it’s not reducing progression is it? If the only thing affected by the reduced xp is the gaining of cosmetic items, personally I don’t see why this is such an issue. If people decide to spend real money on cosmetics items then moan about it that’s their problem imo. Lying about it by bungie is pretty shitty though. 

[ShadowStar83x]

Haven’t bought a game new from Activision for ages. Not like it’ll change anything for me. Bungie became tainted the day they made that deal. Basically sold their souls to the devil.

[sh4d0wzcs]

I don't know why people are surprised by this, I mean its bungie after all. Throughout all of D1 it was a case of fix 1 thing break 2 others. 

[Swotam]

10 hours ago, turpinator1986 said:

 

If that’s the case then it’s not reducing progression is it? If the only thing affected by the reduced xp is the gaining of cosmetic items, personally I don’t see why this is such an issue. If people decide to spend real money on cosmetics items then moan about it that’s their problem imo. Lying about it by bungie is pretty shitty though. 

 

I don't think I ever suggested that progression was the issue in my OP, so if that was what you thought I was talking about then perhaps I didn't word it correctly. It was more focused on the fact that Bungie was intentionally deceiving customers by misleading them about how much XP they were actually gaining. Since XP is ultimately a means to obtain free loot boxes, their deceptive behavior resulted in it taking much longer than expected to get them for free. Under those circumstances, some players no doubt chose to pay for their loot boxes because getting them the free way was taking "too long".

 

I don't really care if people want to spend their money on cosmetic items, it's their money after all. I do take issue with developers lying to their customers though, or intentionally adjusting game mechanics to "push" players towards spending real $$$ on something that could otherwise be obtained for free.

[turpinator1986]

On 27/11/2017 at 6:58 PM, Swotam said:

 

I don't think I ever suggested that progression was the issue in my OP, so if that was what you thought I was talking about then perhaps I didn't word it correctly. It was more focused on the fact that Bungie was intentionally deceiving customers by misleading them about how much XP they were actually gaining. Since XP is ultimately a means to obtain free loot boxes, their deceptive behavior resulted in it taking much longer than expected to get them for free. Under those circumstances, some players no doubt chose to pay for their loot boxes because getting them the free way was taking "too long".

 

I don't really care if people want to spend their money on cosmetic items, it's their money after all. I do take issue with developers lying to their customers though, or intentionally adjusting game mechanics to "push" players towards spending real $$$ on something that could otherwise be obtained for free.

 

Ah I’m with you. Unfortunately that seems to be the way a lot of developers are going these days. I read an interesting article that says we should be careful what we wish for because if micro transactions keep getting pounded on, they’ll be done away with and invariably base game prices will go up. Doesn’t make any excuse for flat out lying though. I personally won’t be purchasing destiny 2 for this and a variety of other reasons. 

 

Also kudos to you for a pleasant reply in response to a general misunderstanding. Too often on these forums I get my head bitten off by short tempered folks in this similar scenario! 

Edited November 28, 2017 by turpinator1986

[Undead Wolf]

2 minutes ago, turpinator1986 said:

I read an interesting article that says we should be careful what we wish for because if micro transactions keep getting pounded on, they’ll be done away with and invariably base game prices will go up.

 

I'd much prefer that then publishers forcing microtransactions into game they don't belong and ruining the core experience in the process. I would happily pay more than the standard price for games like The Witcher 3 that have enough content to justify the price increase. This trend of putting microtransactions into full-priced games more often than not is a sign of greed, though, not necessity. For example, GTAV made a ridiculous amount of money from the base game sales alone; they didn't need microtransactions to be profitable. EA put microtransactions into Battlefront II despite the first game selling like hotcakes. I have nothing against companies making money, but these publishers take it too far, and consumers have every right to call them out when they do so.

[turpinator1986]

14 hours ago, Undead Wolf said:

 

I'd much prefer that then publishers forcing microtransactions into game they don't belong and ruining the core experience in the process. I would happily pay more than the standard price for games like The Witcher 3 that have enough content to justify the price increase. This trend of putting microtransactions into full-priced games more often than not is a sign of greed, though, not necessity. For example, GTAV made a ridiculous amount of money from the base game sales alone; they didn't need microtransactions to be profitable. EA put microtransactions into Battlefront II despite the first game selling like hotcakes. I have nothing against companies making money, but these publishers take it too far, and consumers have every right to call them out when they do so.

 But in GTA V the micro transactions had no bearing on the players game experience. I finished and platted that game without ever using MTs and it never affected me. In those cases I don’t see the problem with them as it’s down to people’s own choice. However with BF2 I believe the issue is that the MTs give players an unfair advantage? Much like someone who has the money to buy thousands of coins on FIFA I imagine. Now those are the MTs that need doing away with. I think games are already too expensive as it is. £60 on release day? No thank you I’m quite happy waiting until they’re reduced to half that in a sale. The only game I will ever buy on release day is TLOU part 2 or another fallout game. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by turpinator1986

[AJ_Radio]

On 11/27/2017 at 1:07 AM, Jigglypuff said:

Haven’t bought a game new from Activision for ages. Not like it’ll change anything for me. Bungie became tainted the day they made that deal. Basically sold their souls to the devil.

 

My thoughts exactly. 

 

Activision is a piece of shit and scum of this earth.