Censorship

[Xylobe]

The number of bad takes in this thread is staggering. The game isn't exclusive to PS4, and the developers were under no obligation to release their game on PS4 if they didn't like Sony's content policy. I think there is a discussion to be had regarding console DRM, but that topic is much broader in scope than "ytf my pp soft?" Sony disallowing certain kinds of content on their storefront isn't the affront to free speech that some people seem to think. Somehow compelling Sony to host that content would be.

[ShadeSplit]

9 hours ago, majob said:

Sony isn't telling anyone what they think is appropriate for anyone. What they are doing is establishing an image and deciding what they do want and do not want to be associated with. People here stating they Sony is telling them what they can or can't have couldn't be more wrong because they're aware that other platforms exist and people can get their needs met there instead since at this point they've decided that losing their money matters little to them. 

 

You could have just said, "I see this the second way".

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by ShadeSplit

[AJ_-_808]

11 hours ago, thefourfoldroot said:

Imagine if Netflix removed or censored all mature content after you'd already paid your money...

Imagine if Sony refused to allow their BluRay players to play porn, or decided for you what discs you could insert...

Imagine if Sony refused to allow their media players to play rap music, or decided for you what music was appropriate...

Sony are not just a publisher, but a platform holder who controls a significant portion of the means of distribution.

 

That is the worst comparison ever.

 

Netflix is a pay as you go service, dont like what they have? Then cancel

 

Sony as a publisher has every right to censor what they allow published under their name if they deem it inappropriate. You as a consumer also have every right to switch to a different platform if you dont like what they're censoring.

 

As for their hardware, I dont think it's even physically possible for them to restrict porn or rap music from running on their media player. That's just you being dumb.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by AJ_-_808

[thefourfoldroot]

14 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

That is the worst comparison ever.

 

Netflix is a pay as you go service, dont like what they have? Then cancel

 

Sony as a publisher has every right to censor what they allow published under their name if they deem it inappropriate. You as a consumer also have every right to switch to a different platform if you dont like what they're censoring.

 

As for their hardware, I dont think it's even physically possible for them to restrict porn or rap music from running on their media player. That's just you being dumb.

 

 

I wasn't the one who brought Netflix up, but as the platform holder for entertainment products there is fair ctossiver. And we were imagining hypertheticals anyway..

And I don't think you understand what is going on here. Sony has dominant market position. The Japanese companies that make this genre of games are small and do so on shoestring budget as it is s niche product. Sony know this and, by removing their platform (that host the majority of the playerbase because previously it was Nintendo who censored and MS didn't care to host these games), they are forcing these companies who largely can't afford to make multiple copies of their games to change their titles. Sure, some may have the resources to still make a true version and release a butchered version for Sony, but most don't. What we see then is a watering down of the genre due to Sony's ideological bullying and powerful market share. They know what they are doing. All but the biggest and most stubborn of creators are going to censor at the development stage rather than pay for multiple versions of their game.

Edited August 6, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[AJ_-_808]

10 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said:

I wasn't the one who brought Netflix up, but as the platform holder for entertainment products there is fair ctossiver. And we were imagining hypertheticals anyway..

And I don't think you understand what is going on here. Sony has dominant market position. The Japanese companies that make this genre of games are small and do so on shoestring budget as it is s niche product. Sony know this and, by removing their platform (that host the majority of the playerbase because previously it was Nintendo who censored and MS didn't care to host these games), they are forcing these companies who largely can't afford to make multiple copies of their games to change their titles. Sure, some may have the resources to still make a true version and release a butchered version for Sony, but most don't. What we see then is a watering down of the genre due to Sony's ideological bullying and powerful market share. They know what they are doing. All but the biggest and most stubborn of creators are going to censor at the development stage rather than pay for multiple versions of their game.

They're censoring content (underage looking jap-anime nudity) their market (puritan US society) deems inappropriate. It's the same reason you dont see nudity & sex on standard daytime TV. 

 

Your fight is with society, not Sony - they're taking a gamble and reacting to the percieved and probable backlash they get for not censoring. Itll be interesting to see if Nintendo gets reamed after a while for not censoring.

 

For the record, I say label it AO and let it fly uncensored. TBH, almost anyone playing these would have access to free internet porn anyway

[Cephi]

I got both versions, one for trophies and the other for uncensored but honestly I could have been jus fine with only the PS4 version since it really doesn't seem like they cut much.

[thefourfoldroot]

4 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said:

They're censoring content (underage looking jap-anime nudity) their market (puritan US society) deems inappropriate. It's the same reason you dont see nudity & sex on standard daytime TV. 

 

Your fight is with society, not Sony - they're taking a gamble and reacting to the percieved and probable backlash they get for not censoring. Itll be interesting to see if Nintendo gets reamed after a while for not censoring.

 

For the record, I say label it AO and let it fly uncensored. TBH, almost anyone playing these would have access to free internet porn anyway

 

4 hours ago, AJ_-_808 said:

They're censoring content (underage looking jap-anime nudity) their market (puritan US society) deems inappropriate. It's the same reason you dont see nudity & sex on standard daytime TV. 

 

Your fight is with society, not Sony - they're taking a gamble and reacting to the percieved and probable backlash they get for not censoring. Itll be interesting to see if Nintendo gets reamed after a while for not censoring.

 

For the record, I say label it AO and let it fly uncensored. TBH, almost anyone playing these would have access to free internet porn anyway

Sony are part of society. They also have the power to influence culture, for good and Ill, due to their dominance in the console entertainment space. They've already said they passed censorship responsibilities to the most illiberal region (US, California) to avoid criticism from a very vocal minority of activist extremist groups, but that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their heinous actions. Bending the knee to wannabe oppressors when in a position of weakness is one thing, but Sony are not, and I hold them fully responsible for their disgusting actions as a result.

3 hours ago, Cephi said:

I got both versions, one for trophies and the other for uncensored but honestly I could have been jus fine with only the PS4 version since it really doesn't seem like they cut much.

They cut a huge amount. Both images and gameplay. Such a shame. 

[nyonmyan]

15 hours ago, Xylobe said:

The number of bad takes in this thread is staggering. The game isn't exclusive to PS4, and the developers were under no obligation to release their game on PS4 if they didn't like Sony's content policy. I think there is a discussion to be had regarding console DRM, but that topic is much broader in scope than "ytf my pp soft?" Sony disallowing certain kinds of content on their storefront isn't the affront to free speech that some people seem to think. Somehow compelling Sony to host that content would be.

 

I went through the thread and couldn't find anything related to your post. No claims that the game is a Sony exclusive, no claims that developers were forced to release on PS4 and no mention of free speech either.

Kinda creepy.

 

[chellesan]

I buy it on switch, problem solved 

[AJ_-_808]

3 hours ago, thefourfoldroot said:

 

Sony are part of society. They also have the power to influence culture, for good and Ill, due to their dominance in the console entertainment space.

 

I dont think they have as much power as you seem to think they do.  They're a business, and at the end of the day, they're going to make the decision they feel is best for business.  If they decide that censoring a small group of games for questionable content will cause less damage than the possible PR nightmare that content could lead to, then so be it.

 

These consoles are running on mostly the same hardware as computers, the developers always have the option of sticking to PC release.

 

 

3 hours ago, thefourfoldroot said:

 

 but that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their heinous actions. Bending the knee to wannabe oppressors when in a position of weakness is one thing, but Sony are not, and I hold them fully responsible for their disgusting actions as a result.

 

It may be time for you to take a step back, or possibly choose different words because the level of intensity "heinous actions", "oppressors", and "disgusting actions" imply certainly doesn't line up with what they did, which, let's be honest, was censor nudity in a video game for what could pass as underage girls

[thefourfoldroot]

49 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

I dont think they have as much power as you seem to think they do.  They're a business, and at the end of the day, they're going to make the decision they feel is best for business.  If they decide that censoring a small group of games for questionable content will cause less damage than the possible PR nightmare that content could lead to, then so be it.

 

These consoles are running on mostly the same hardware as computers, the developers always have the option of sticking to PC release.

 

 

 

It may be time for you to take a step back, or possibly choose different words because the level of intensity "heinous actions", "oppressors", and "disgusting actions" imply certainly doesn't line up with what they did, which, let's be honest, was censor nudity in a video game for what could pass as underage girls

They have a dominant position in the home console market, which itself has a dominant position in the AAA games market. Due to Sony's actions an entire genre of videogames are being decimated and Japanese devs, some of whom signed an exclusivity agreement with Sony before the policy change, are experiencing real difficulties.

And there is no questionable content involved.

Let's be clear though, the type of censorship is irrelevant to me. If they were bleeping profanity in a mature rated title, or colouring blood purple, removing firearms or performing any other insulting, arrogant, form of censorship my reaction would be the same. The fact it is cleavage and pantyshots they are censoring (not nudity by the way) is of secondary importance to me.

Edited August 6, 2019 by thefourfoldroot

[AJ_-_808]

26 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said:

They have a dominant position in the home console market, which itself has a dominant position in the AAA games market. Due to Sony's actions an entire genre of videogames are being decimated and Japanese devs, some of whom signed an exclusivity agreement with Sony before the policy change, are experiencing real difficulties.

And there is no questionable content involved.

Let's be clear though, the type of censorship is irrelevant to me. If they were bleeping profanity in a mature rated title, or colouring blood purple, removing firearms or performing any other insulting, arrogant, form of censorship my reaction would be the same. The fact it is cleavage and pantyshots they are censoring (not nudity by the way) is of secondary importance to me.

Ok, let me rephrase.

I dont think their domonant position in the video game world translates into much power in the media & political world, where bad PR could cripple them (or any publicly traded company).

 

The type of censorship may be irrelevant to you or me, but it matters to others whom have influence over consumers.  For whatever strange reason, violence & blood & vulgarity are far more acceptable than nudity & sex, and I guess in this case, panty shots.

 

 

Also, are you certain those developers are excluded from PC release? I would like to think that they'd have a legal out of any binding contract if terms & policies changed.

[NewVegasNick]

OH noooo. You can't play with some tiddies in your game

 

Can we get a gofundme up for OP? 

 

[fisty123]

3 minutes ago, DoucetDudes said:

OH noooo. You can't play with some tiddies in your game

 

Can we get a gofundme up for OP? 

 

Two years later Sony are being pushed by these groups to remove guns and blood from games, will you still be saying the same thing?
This is what most are trying to say, Sony have given in to these groups once, if these groups change their focus will it happen again?

[Legchomper]

This game never appealed to me but I was looking forward to Mary Skelter 2, it was released on PS4 in Japan and hit with some censorship IIRC, the West gets it exclusively for Switch, I'm unsure if the censorship affected it not coming to the West on PS4 but it's more likely to be the reason. More and more games are being exclusive to Switch now all for showing skin. The only reason I'm sticking on PS4 is the trophies. If Nintendo and Microsoft teamed up and you could earn achievements on Nintendo games I'd change instantly. Pokemon with achievements? jeez I'd be loving life. 

[thefourfoldroot]

4 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

Ok, let me rephrase.

I dont think their domonant position in the video game world translates into much power in the media & political world, where bad PR could cripple them (or any publicly traded company).

 

The type of censorship may be irrelevant to you or me, but it matters to others whom have influence over consumers.  For whatever strange reason, violence & blood & vulgarity are far more acceptable than nudity & sex, and I guess in this case, panty shots.

 

 

Also, are you certain those developers are excluded from PC release? I would like to think that they'd have a legal out of any binding contract if terms & policies changed.

It's not about the political world, not immediately anyway, it's about not allowing an activist minority to dictate what is allowed in the mass media. Sure, Sony have a right to shield themselves from the bad PR scum may otherwise create, but I also believe they have a responsibility as dominant platform holder to not normalise and tacitly promote certain extreme viewpoints. I would think of it as a newspaper being held accountable for biased reporting even when there are other newspapers with alternative views on the market.

Another issue is that the world is unwilling to differentiate between platform holder and publisher in the digital world. Whether that be Google and YouTube acting as editors whilst hiding behind their protected status, or Sony controlling what developers can make and release because they have no such protected status. It's all a real shitshow

[NewVegasNick]

10 minutes ago, fisty123 said:

Two years later Sony are being pushed by these groups to remove guns and blood from games, will you still be saying the same thing?
This is what most are trying to say, Sony have given in to these groups once, if these groups change their focus will it happen again?

 

I hope they censor more tiddies so you can't have them. ?,

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by DoucetDudes

[DEI2EK]

2 minutes ago, DoucetDudes said:

 

I hope they censor more tiddies so you can't have them. ,

 

You're just being antagonistic for the sake of antagonizing people

Get out of here

[NewVegasNick]

1 minute ago, DEI2EK said:

You're just being antagonistic for the sake of antagonizing people

Get out of here

 

Imagine if your whole life was affected because of the presence of animated tiddies in a video game. And then you got mad about it and posted it on a forum and pretended it was a part of a larger censorship movement. 

When in reality, it's a pretty good practice for Sony to not publish boob groping games because no one gives a fuck other than a bunch of weebs. 

[DEI2EK]

1 minute ago, DoucetDudes said:

 

Imagine if your whole life was affected because of the presence of animated tiddies in a video game. And then you got mad about it and posted it on a forum and pretended it was a part of a larger censorship movement. 

When in reality, it's a pretty good practice for Sony to not publish boob groping games because no one gives a fuck other than a bunch of weebs. 

The only mad one I see is you. Everyone else is expressing their disappointment that their platform of choice isn’t allowing the content and forcing them to go elsewhere.

[VoidVictorious]

21 hours ago, AsXceofallTrades said:

I'm still buying the game on PS4. The main reason being that the developer still worked on this version, yes I know it was butchered but the developer took the time to make this version for all the fans on PS4. Not everybody has a switch so for some of us (me at least) this is the only version I can play and I'm thankful to the developers for that. I figure the best us PS4 only users can do is just buy the game thank the developers for releasing it on PS4 and complain to Sony about the censorship. 

I am always stunned to see all of these posts ignoring the fact that the developer and not just Sony lose any profit if you buy the game second hand. I am glad the poster that I quoted was insightful enough to realize that fact.

[fisty123]

6 minutes ago, DoucetDudes said:

 

Imagine if your whole life was affected because of the presence of animated tiddies in a video game. And then you got mad about it and posted it on a forum and pretended it was a part of a larger censorship movement. 

When in reality, it's a pretty good practice for Sony to not publish boob groping games because no one gives a fuck other than a bunch of weebs. 

Your really missing the point here about this could happen to other things than boobs and the fact other platforms are not removing content which may hurt PS5 sales as a whole, especially in Japan
Then again your using words like "tiddies: and "weebs" so i'm not excepting much from you here. What are you 10, who the hell calls them tiddies unless it's in a meme.

Edited August 6, 2019 by fisty123

[AJ_-_808]

14 minutes ago, thefourfoldroot said:

It's not about the political world, not immediately anyway, 

 

It's all about politics.  While they may not be getting hauled in front of Congress to testify, Sony is still trying to avoid the backlash from influencers because they sway consumers, who in turn, will threaten to vote out their politicans for not acting.

 

It's a giant chess game, and Sony (or any other company) needs to think 3 moves ahead to survive.

[thefourfoldroot]

2 minutes ago, VoidVictorious said:

I am always stunned to see all of these posts ignoring the fact that the developer and not just Sony lose any profit if you buy the game second hand. I am glad the poster that I quoted was insightful enough to realize that fact.

Sony are destroying the availability, validity, and thus very existence of the genre these devs want to make. Everyone involved, other than Sony and the relevant activist groups, want Sony to go back to being held accountable only to ratings bodies and so allowing these type of games on their platform unmolested. In the long run its necessary for the genre. 

1 minute ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

It's all about politics.  While they may not be getting hauled in front of Congress to testify, Sony is still trying to avoid the backlash from influencers because they sway consumers, who in turn, will threaten to vote out their politicans for not acting.

 

It's a giant chess game, and Sony (or any other company) needs to think 3 moves ahead to survive.

I know. I mentioned this before. But from the context of this poster I got the impression he meant actual political institutions. Which, as you said, take time to be impacted (thus my "not immediately")

[fisty123]

26 minutes ago, Blaidd-Cysgodol said:

I was looking forward to Mary Skelter 2, it was released on PS4 in Japan and hit with some censorship IIRC, the West gets it exclusively for Switch, I'm unsure if the censorship affected it not coming to the West on PS4 but it's more likely to be the reason. More and more games are being exclusive to Switch now all for showing skin. The only reason I'm sticking on PS4 is the trophies. If Nintendo and Microsoft teamed up and you could earn achievements on Nintendo games I'd change instantly. Pokemon with achievements? jeez I'd be loving life. 

This sums in it for me as well, I know an achivement system is not everything to gaming but I just seem to lose focus when I am playing the Switch, I need to have that goal to unlock the next trophy. I have so many half started switch games now that I just go yeah ill pass and play a Playstation device.

Edited August 6, 2019 by fisty123