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[Dark_Overlord]

1 minute ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

They're characterized the same in the japense version of TWEWY2, there's no 180 degree change in the English version.

 

Kadokawa has offices in New York City, that's where they're doing the english translations.

 

Well tell that to the people who own the game in English and Japanese and are saying that there is in fact differences.

 

They allowed companies to facilitate their translations in the past, but when you have companies like Seven Seas that self censor manga to not offend the snowflakes of the world, it results in lower sales overall.  Cut out the middle man, do it right yourself and people will pay for it, which is what Kadokawa have realised.

[Dark_Overlord]

2 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

It's certainly a matter of opinion on if there are major differences.

 

Also Seven Seas isn't owned by Kadokawa, it's Yen press that's their western publishing label.

 

Do you just deny reality to suit your needs?

 

Once again I was using an example which seems to have gone way over your head.

[ShadeSplit]

14 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

Because the whole reason why nobody does literal translations is because those wind up destroying context.

 

If you're trying to convey something funny that happens in the script and it doesn't come across that way due to being a slave to Japanese sentence structure, then you failed to give proper context to the audience by being linguistically correct. There's a ton of jokes that don't work especially if they involve rhymes since the english translation won't rhyme with the original japanese words since they sound very different. People shouldn't need to have a cliffnotes book just to understand two people talking.

 

As it stands, you need a "cliffnotes book" to understand these inane memes. I seriously doubt the original Japanese text contains those.

[SnowxSakura]

4 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

All the major examples of text alteration were just throwaway conversations which don't change much of the story's context in TWEWY2.

 

It's like quest dialogue in an MMO, most people won't be reading it.

Why play an RPG if you're not reading the dialogue? 

[Dark_Overlord]

11 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

It's like quest dialogue in an MMO, most people won't be reading it.

 

Skipping dialogue in an RPG makes no sense at all, one of the main staples of an RPG is the story

[Ancestral_Spirit]

3 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

It's certainly a matter of pinion on if there are major differences.

 

I really don't think this is a matter of opinion when there have been clear changes to context and dialogue in each scene.

I'll go through some of the more egregious changes i saw in that forum thread of someone showing what the dialogue says in Japanese and then in English.

I'll repost the forum thread so it's easier to find: https://varishangout.com/index.php?threads/checking-the-localization-of-neo-the-world-ends-with-you.414/

 

Changing someone from saying 'U.G.' to 'Oh Em Gee' is already a stupid translation.

When the character says UG they are referring to an in game plot point, the Under Ground. Changing this to Oh Em Gee has now changed the topic and context of the scene.

In the original she's confused as to how someone doesn't understand what U.G. means, in the English translation she's mocking them without even giving context on what she's mocking them for.

Later on in that same dialogue tree in Japanese, she seems more surprised that the other characters don't know that that's where they are, and then goes on to explain that. No extra dialogue was used. In the English translation, she's now calling the nerds, losers and making them out to be Grade A morons, which is not what the original scenes context implied.

This is now implicitly changing a character from being pretty stern, forthright and practical to her own situation, to someone who has no time for others, succumbs to name calling, and treats everyone else like they're inferior. Forget changing context of a scene, and this point they're also changing to context of character, which is pretty detrimental to a game with open swathes of dialogue and character interaction.

 

Changing the words 'Shady' to 'Sus' seems also pretty childish, given that normally people would use the word shady to describe someone who was behaving in a sneaky or odd way. Shady is not a word used by the Japanese as slang, so to change it from shady to sus seems as though they were simply doing it because it's currently popular among kids that like to play Among Us, and people will get 'teh memes'.

 

Changing the dialogue line from the Japanese 'It might be related to Neku' to 'Might be an imposter... but it might be Neku' has now also changed the context of this scene. At no point did the original line imply that either of the characters thought that the person they were referring to could be an imposter, however this line has now been added to the English for whatever reason. Saying that something might be related to another character, and openly saying that that person could be an imposter changes the way we now think of the character Neku.

 

Changing dialogue from 'What's this? 104? Hmmm I don't like it! I'll tag all over it?' has now been changed to 'Is this supposed to be 104? Uh-uh - we aren't glorifying capitalism on my watch. Time to spray over it!'

I mean, do i really need to explain how pointless the changes were here? Saying that you don't like something, and then saying you don't like it because of capitalism are two completely different things. That would be akin to me saying that i 'don't like cake' and someone translating that to 'i don't like cake cos of colonialism'. I never added that i didn't like cake because of colonialism, i simply stated that i didn't like cake and then someone else took it upon themselves to assume that that was why i didn't like cake.

 

'Once this game ends, i'll tell her how i feel' to 'someday i'll get a promotion and then you'll have it all. A big house, big car, big rings - whatever you want'

Initially the character seems like he cares for Shouka (the person he's referring to) and wants to put out his feeling for her and tell her how much he loves her. In the English translation his character has now been changed to a materialist, thinking that the girl he likes just wants material things. This has now not only changed how we view this character, but his love interest as well. Not only that but in the original it's quite clear that they aren't together, and he wants them to be. In the English translation, it now seems like they're already together and he's just going to buy her a bunch of shit to keep her happy. Changes to character, context of the current situation and context of character relationships throughout the story in just those few lines alone!

 

Do you need me to go on?

[Dark_Overlord]

10 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

Yet I'm pretty sure most games contain a skip button for dialogue.

 

Mashing X isn't a skip button

[Ancestral_Spirit]

23 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

All the major examples of text alteration were just throwaway conversations which don't change much of the story's context in TWEWY2.

 

It's like quest dialogue in an MMO, most people won't be reading it.

....... Then why are you here in a thread about censorship when you're not fussed about even bothering to read dialogue?

 

[pot1414]

52 minutes ago, Wavergray said:

What makes you think it's not a faithful translation? A few screenshots that show one or two sentences in a game with a book worth of dialogue? A few screenshots that show the same type of dialogue that was in the first game? The dialogue that had a bunch of teenagers using slang terms? The fact that Japanese teenagers use slang terms just like every other teenager in the world? 

 

Unless when you say "faithful translations". You mean a super literal translation full of references you would never understand because you're not japanese? Because there is more than likely things in that japanese text that is untranslatable.

Well yeah these screenshots indicate the translation wasn't done faithfully. Replacing Japanese slang terms is totally fine but that's not really the case here. Again @Dark_Overlord has posted about this already so instead of repeating what he said you can read his post. Also don't get me started on the personal politics of the translator leaking into the translation. Oh and before anyone throws an ad hominem my way let me make clear that I would also have the same problem if they were bashing socialism. Also the changes were extremely cringey but I guess that's subjective.

 

26 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

All the major examples of text alteration were just throwaway conversations which don't change much of the story's context in TWEWY2.

 

It's like quest dialogue in an MMO, most people won't be reading it.

That's a moving the goalpost fallacy. You went from arguing that there aren't changes to them being for throwaway lines.

Edited August 9, 2021 by pot1414

[Ancestral_Spirit]

12 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

Yet I'm pretty sure most games contain a skip button for dialogue.

There's speed up buttons so that you press X once to have all the dialogue on screen, and then you can press X again to go to the next lot of dialogue. 

And vn's only allow you to skip the dialogue once you've already read them once.

 

I'm getting the distinct impression that you're the sort of person that really DOESN'T care about dialogue in games full stop, which begs me to wonder why you're arguing so hard against people who do.

 

One of the main reasons i buy a helluva lot of games and vn's is because i actually like the dialogue, characters and story.

And yes, i'm one of those freaks that reads all that flavour text for quests.

I mean, if someone took the time to write it, you'd best believe i'll take the time to read it.

[Dark_Overlord]

2 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

Well it's a fact that in any script in any medium, that there's lines that are there just to fill time. It could be movies, books, or anything.

 

That's just a fact of script writing, not every line is intended to be gold. A story is supposed to rise and fall.

 

I'm getting the feeling you hate reading in games

[pot1414]

4 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

Well it's a fact that in any script in any medium, that there's lines that are there just to fill time. It could be movies, books, or anything.

 

That's just a fact of script writing, not every line is intended to be gold. A story is supposed to rise and fall.

I don't think any sensible person would disagree with what you wrote here but that's not a counter argument to what has been said about the changes.

 

1 minute ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

I've yet to play a bad game that was saved by it's story. But I've played very good games with awful stories like Monster Hunter.

 

In a game, the story exists due to the gameplay not opposite.So if the changes don't affect the gameplay it's really minor.

This is 100% subjective. Different strokes for different folks.

[Dark_Overlord]

4 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

I've yet to play a bad game that was saved by it's story. But I've played very good games with awful stories like Monster Hunter.

 

In a game, the story exists due to the gameplay not opposite.So if the changes don't affect the gameplay it's really minor in the end.

 

Explain why Visual Novels are so popular then, there's very little gameplay and the story carries the whole game.

 

Thomas Was Alone is another example, the game isn't great and it's the story that carries it.

 

How about Telltale style games? or point and clicks

Edited August 9, 2021 by Dark_Overlord

[Ancestral_Spirit]

1 minute ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

Well it's a fact that in any script in any medium, that there's lines that are there just to fill time. It could be movies, books, or anything.

 

That's just a fact of script writing, not every line is intended to be gold. A story is supposed to rise and fall.

And in order for someone to understand those rises and falls you have to read all that shit.

 

Let's make an example, let's take The Walking Dead, i'll try to do this without spoilers mostly for other people since you really don't seem to care much and i'm not even sure if you read my massive post about the contextual problems with the dialogue changes.

 

At it's core The Walking Dead is about survivors, trying to get through life in a zombie apocalypse. I think we can all agree on that.

In order for us to care about this zombie apocalypse, you need characters, otherwise there's no need to fear the zombie apocalypse.

For me, The Walking Dead in its game, comic and tv series forms, relies on its character interactions in order for people to be interested week by week.

What you're arguing for is for everyone to shut up, shoot zombies, and only say what is absolutely necessary

Now while that may work for a game for people who don't want story or characters, but that certainly will not hold up in a book or film like you suggested.

 

Most people want to care about the characters, grow to like them and even see them as people. The closer your emotional bond to a character or story, the harder those things hit when something good or bad happens to them. If someone doesn't care for the characters or story, what need would there be for someone to keep coming back to it?

 

The way your explaining yourself makes it seem as thus:

The tv series 'Friends' should just be comedy and have no character interaction involving relationships.

VN's shouldn't exist because they solely rely on good story telling, character interaction and dialogue.

Every character in all mediums should only ever say what needs to be said without flavour dialogue (which is kinda going against your argument for the changes in NTWEWU)

Telltale games are a waste of time because story and context don't matter.

RPG's in general should just have characters that say nothing to each other, and only fight because 'no one cba to read that shit'.

[Fubuki]

38 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

All the major examples of text alteration were just throwaway conversations which don't change much of the story's context in TWEWY2.

 

It's like quest dialogue in an MMO, most people won't be reading it.

This is supposed to be a joke right? Anyone who just skips through dialogue in an MMO probably doesn't care about the story and then complains about it after not understanding the ending. Why are you defending this translation? I wouldn't even call it a "translation" though, I think SnowxSakura is right by calling it "unprofessional". It's not a translation.....it's more of an abomination if anything.

[Fubuki]

11 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

Honestly if they changed sus to suspicious nobody would have made a big deal over it.

But because it's a meme it's been blown out of proportion, but people deem it cringe which also in itself a meme.

No dude it's because its unprofessional. Like it's not an accurate translation. Has nothing to do with it being amogus related.
 

Edited August 9, 2021 by The Titan

[Ancestral_Spirit]

9 minutes ago, Sendai-Horatio said:

Nah I'm pretty sure if there was no meme, people would not have batted an eye and nobody would have bothered to look.

 

The Among Us reference seems to be the corner stone for the whole translation being bad. Which personally I think is a bit much.

I see you did not in fact read any of my given examples that were not among us related when i mentioned them a page ago.

 

It seems as though you view me as a side quest giving npc that you don't need to read, that's a shame.

[Ancestral_Spirit]

@Sendai-Horatio

 

I think i'm going to stop arguing with you now, since it seems like i'm pissing in the wind at this point.

My arguments have fallen on deaf ears and you cherry pick information to suit your needs.

I am done here.

[Wavergray]

1 hour ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

Changing someone from saying 'U.G.' to 'Oh Em Gee' is already a stupid translation.

When the character says UG they are referring to an in game plot point, the Under Ground. Changing this to Oh Em Gee has now changed the topic and context of the scene.

In the original she's confused as to how someone doesn't understand what U.G. means, in the English translation she's mocking them without even giving context on what she's mocking them for.

Are you sure about that? Are you sure her tone in Japanese is not a mocking and rude tone? Saying U long pause G long pause could be her mocking them by talking slowly?

 

Quote

Later on in that same dialogue tree in Japanese, she seems more surprised that the other characters don't know that that's where they are, and then goes on to explain that. No extra dialogue was used. In the English translation, she's now calling the nerds, losers and making them out to be Grade A morons, which is not what the original scenes context implied.

Again are you sure she's not mocking them in Japanese? In the first TWEWY game it was not uncommon for reapers to mock and belittle new players to the game.

 

Quote

This is now implicitly changing a character from being pretty stern, forthright and practical to her own situation, to someone who has no time for others, succumbs to name calling, and treats everyone else like they're inferior. Forget changing context of a scene, and this point they're also changing to context of character, which is pretty detrimental to a game with open swathes of dialogue and character interaction.

So you are saying that a few lines of dialogue from the start of the game has changed a character that has a whole game worth of dialogue that will be used to define her? Even the other screenshots in that thread show that she is pretty much mocking them even in Japanese

 

Quote

Changing the words 'Shady' to 'Sus' seems also pretty childish, given that normally people would use the word shady to describe someone who was behaving in a sneaky or odd way. Shady is not a word used by the Japanese as slang, so to change it from shady to sus seems as though they were simply doing it because it's currently popular among kids that like to play Among Us, and people will get 'teh memes'.

Changing the dialogue line from the Japanese 'It might be related to Neku' to 'Might be an imposter... but it might be Neku' has now also changed the context of this scene. At no point did the original line imply that either of the characters thought that the person they were referring to could be an imposter, however this line has now been added to the English for whatever reason. Saying that something might be related to another character, and openly saying that that person could be an imposter changes the way we now think of the character Neku.

You are missing the forest for the trees. Are you up of current Japanese teen slang? They would say sus because Among Us was popular everywhere. However, the more important issue is would the character structure his sentence that way? He's supposed to be a current time Japanese teenager right? So yeah he would say it that way and not the wooden devoid of personality way that forum translation has it. Even other screenshots in that forum thread show him to be pretty expressive and eccentric even with the forum Japanese translation. So saying things so plainly seems strange for his character.

 

Quote

Changing dialogue from 'What's this? 104? Hmmm I don't like it! I'll tag all over it?' has now been changed to 'Is this supposed to be 104? Uh-uh - we aren't glorifying capitalism on my watch. Time to spray over it!'

I mean, do i really need to explain how pointless the changes were here? Saying that you don't like something, and then saying you don't like it because of capitalism are two completely different things. That would be akin to me saying that i 'don't like cake' and someone translating that to 'i don't like cake cos of colonialism'. I never added that i didn't like cake because of colonialism, i simply stated that i didn't like cake and then someone else took it upon themselves to assume that that was why i didn't like cake.

First this is a none story important NPC. Second are you sure the tone of the message has been changed? The forum translation it's again devoid of personality so it's unclear what tone the Japanese text is trying to put across. There's context missing such as what is the Japanese name of the character and what that supposedly tell the player what type of character they are due to frame of reference? What does it mean to tag something in Japan and what type of character does such a thing based on societal norms in Japan? But again this is a throwaway NPC with throwaway floating thoughts like you could see in the first game.

 

Quote

'Once this game ends, i'll tell her how i feel' to 'someday i'll get a promotion and then you'll have it all. A big house, big car, big rings - whatever you want'

Initially the character seems like he cares for Shouka (the person he's referring to) and wants to put out his feeling for her and tell her how much he loves her. In the English translation his character has now been changed to a materialist, thinking that the girl he likes just wants material things. This has now not only changed how we view this character, but his love interest as well. Not only that but in the original it's quite clear that they aren't together, and he wants them to be. In the English translation, it now seems like they're already together and he's just going to buy her a bunch of shit to keep her happy. Changes to character, context of the current situation and context of character relationships throughout the story in just those few lines alone!

So a no name NPC Reaper daydreaming about the girl reaper from earlier. Even with the devoid of personality forum translation, The tone in both the Japanese and English text is making a joke out of the no name reaper. In both version he is a throwaway character with throwaway lines used as a joke to show some of the no name reaper like the girl reaper. The same kind of jokes were in the first game. The English text also doesn't imply there in a relationship or anything like that. Just that he'll give her things if she wants them. but from the context of the universe we know that will never happen because he's a no name Reaper.

Almost every other screenshot in the forum thread is the same way. A wooden translation devoid of personality that is read with no context. Again considering the first game was far more popular in America than in Japan, I struggle to see how anyone could argue that this isn't a faithful translation when this translation is very similar to the the first games translation. When said translation is part of  what made the first game popular in the west.

[pot1414]

43 minutes ago, Wavergray said:

snip

So the main counter argument is that we have a wooden translation devoid of personality that is read with no context. Ok I can accept that as a reasonable counter point. I can't respond further since I haven't played the game yet. Maybe people who have can enlighten us since you haven't played it either(at least based on your psn profile here so I could be wrong on that).

[Beyondthegrave07]

I had to remove a lot of off topic back and forth about whether or not VNs are games... Let's try and stay on topic, and if you can't, don't post at all. This clutters the thread and makes it difficult to follow. If you want to discuss something like that, take it to another thread.

[Dark_Overlord]

Wonder if Japans opposition to the censorship has anything to do with this?

 

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/08/switch_takes_japans_entire_top_30_software_chart_the_first_console_to_do_so_since_1988

[Dark_Overlord]

Hoping this is the start of something good, Sony can't ignore the biggest publisher of Anime/Manga related games when they're so damn popular.

 

 

 

[majob]

On 8/14/2021 at 10:02 AM, Dark_Overlord said:

Wonder if Japans opposition to the censorship has anything to do with this?

Very little if you had bothered to read the games list. Nintendo handhelds have always done gangbusters in Japan.

[Dark_Overlord]

Just now, majob said:

Very little if you had bothered to read the games list. Nintendo handhelds have always done gangbusters in Japan.

 

But a clean sweep?  Sony have pretty much always had games in the charts.  Playstation don't give a shit about Japan anymore and it seems like Japan is returning the favour.