Grounded Mode is a poorly designed difficulty

[Shenka]

I never understood why developers add game difficulties post launch like this. Naughty Dog is notorious for putting together awful difficulty modes post launch (looking at you Uncharted). But man does Grounded mode take it to a whole new level. On a fundamental level your playthrough and tactics are similar to when you play survival. But there are several moments in the game where poor design just ruins the experience.

 

The lack of checkpoints, for example, was lazily done. I get trying to punish the player more for dying, but putting a player back to a point where they have to go through 2-3 cutscenes before they can return to the part that killed them is ridiculous. There is absolutely nothing fun or challenging about that, its just annoying.

 

The final third of the game is the worst thus far. All of Ellie's level is just.. well.. horrific. It took one of the most immersive, harrowing experiences in the game and dwindled it to nothing more than "How Not To Design A Video Game 101"

 

I really hope that overtime developers learn to not lazily add difficulty modes. And if they do, then NEVER make it a trophy, let alone TWO trophies. I cannot fathom what idiocy at Naughty Dog allowed this poorly designed mode to be released and to require players complete it twice.

[B1rvine]

Some TLOU 'masters' do enjoy these sorts of challenges. 

 

I have to disagree to "never make these trophies". These are the sorts of challenges that do belong as trophies. You know, the kind that actually challenged you, and not the participation style trophies we're seeing multiply like Tribbles. 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by B1rvine

[Lonemankane]

12 minutes ago, Shenka said:

I never understood why developers add game difficulties post launch like this. Naughty Dog is notorious for putting together awful difficulty modes post launch (looking at you Uncharted). But man does Grounded mode take it to a whole new level. On a fundamental level your playthrough and tactics are similar to when you play survival. But there are several moments in the game where poor design just ruins the experience.

 

The lack of checkpoints, for example, was lazily done. I get trying to punish the player more for dying, but putting a player back to a point where they have to go through 2-3 cutscenes before they can return to the part that killed them is ridiculous. There is absolutely nothing fun or challenging about that, its just annoying.

 

The final third of the game is the worst thus far. All of Ellie's level is just.. well.. horrific. It took one of the most immersive, harrowing experiences in the game and dwindled it to nothing more than "How Not To Design A Video Game 101"

 

I really hope that overtime developers learn to not lazily add difficulty modes. And if they do, then NEVER make it a trophy, let alone TWO trophies. I cannot fathom what idiocy at Naughty Dog allowed this poorly designed mode to be released and to require players complete it twice.

well most harder modes in games don't really challenge you unless the devs put a lot of work into it themselves. take for example resident evil 1 remake, all modes are hard but with a lot of remembering things and knowing what to do you can beat nearly any mode without much problems and learn new ways to deal with every enemy.

 

Most devs find putting a harder mode to the game means making you basically die in seconds and make the enemy take shots up the ass to die. two great examples is days gone or wolfenstein 2. days gone has zombies take crap tons of bullets to kill while humans can be taken out easy with headshots and so on but you still die in seconds. Wolfenstein 2 has mein leben and in that mode you die and go to the start of the game can't skip cutscenes and the most basic enemy can kill you in seconds and if you don't get the upgraded rifle that basically is op then kiss your ass goodbye. I always play my games if I can on hard mode unless I don't play that type of game (examples are like rts games or sports or racing and so on)

 

Devs are mostly clueless with how to challenge the player nowadays.

[Shenka]

Just now, B1rvine said:

Some TLOU 'masters' do enjoy these sorts of challenges. 

 

I have to disagree. These are the sorts of challenges that do belong as trophies. You know, the kind that actually challenged you, and not the participation style trophies we're seeing multiply like Tribbles. 

 

Survival mode is a good difficulty trophy. Grounded mode, however, is poor game design in my opinion. There shouldnt be trophies that require people to play added modes. I dont mind difficulty in games at all, but poorly designed difficulties drive me mad. More specifically, the choices of checkpoints was done poorly. They shouldve done more than simply remove checkpoints. There shouldve been thought into strategically placing them. Ellie's stealth is just broken, which is forgivable in other difficulties but not in Grounded.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, KANERKB said:

well most harder modes in games don't really challenge you unless the devs put a lot of work into it themselves. take for example resident evil 1 remake, all modes are hard but with a lot of remembering things and knowing what to do you can beat nearly any mode without much problems and learn new ways to deal with every enemy.

 

Most devs find putting a harder mode to the game means making you basically die in seconds and make the enemy take shots up the ass to die. two great examples is days gone or wolfenstein 2. days gone has zombies take crap tons of bullets to kill while humans can be taken out easy with headshots and so on but you still die in seconds. Wolfenstein 2 has mein leben and in that mode you die and go to the start of the game can't skip cutscenes and the most basic enemy can kill you in seconds and if you don't get the upgraded rifle that basically is op then kiss your ass goodbye. I always play my games if I can on hard mode unless I don't play that type of game (examples are like rts games or sports or racing and so on)

 

Devs are mostly clueless with how to challenge the player nowadays.

 

Couldn't agree more. My problem isnt with the type of difficulty per say, but you cant just change some damage and health variables and call it a day, you know? When designing difficulty levels it needs to be done with the game's development in mind. Adding difficulty post launch means you're creating a difficulty that the game was not designed for. In Uncharted: The Nathan Drake collection they added Brutal mode (I believe thats what its called) and its genuinely awful. Not because difficulty isnt fun, but because the game was never designed for that mode. Ive platinumed the Uncharted series on PS3 and PS4 (minus Uncharted 3, which I plan to get to soon enough) and I refuse to play Brutal.

[Lonemankane]

19 minutes ago, Shenka said:

Couldn't agree more. My problem isnt with the type of difficulty per say, but you cant just change some damage and health variables and call it a day, you know? When designing difficulty levels it needs to be done with the game's development in mind. Adding difficulty post launch means you're creating a difficulty that the game was not designed for. In Uncharted: The Nathan Drake collection they added Brutal mode (I believe thats what its called) and its genuinely awful. Not because difficulty isnt fun, but because the game was never designed for that mode. Ive platinumed the Uncharted series on PS3 and PS4 (minus Uncharted 3, which I plan to get to soon enough) and I refuse to play Brutal.

Yeah, I am a trophy hunter and I enjoy all kinds of challenges in games and so on but when it is broken and basically not really tested well and you die in seconds and you basically have to do something in a way to make it fail it sucks out the fun out of it. Take for a great example borderlands 1, the dlc to it the one where you have the arena. you must beat all rounds and waves for all arenas to earn the trophies and well it might be all good and all but 1 round Is 5 waves and all the enemies are tied to your level and because this is borderlands they have shields and so on plus later on they add in mods to the waves where only rockets are going to do any dmg or you can only dmg enemies with handguns and so on. it takes about 45mins to an hour to beat 1 round unless you use a glitch or you have a modded weapon from some random people or you did the glitch that basically makes it where you have endless lots of ammo and so on people brag that they got it but it was not fun or cool to get it is just wasting your time.

 

I know I rant but I find it dum that people brag about a trophy that takes forever to earn due to boring or unfairness to it. I mean it might be fun and all to some people but I rather have a trophy be fair and even. I mean I beaten Fear 1 on the highest setting and that game is a lot of fun due to how they made the combat and how they placed items it is all fair and with how they made the AI it is a lot of fun. using glitches or cheats to beat a mode that is very broken in terms of fast you die or how little dmg you do and so on is just poor to me. As there is no skill to beat it other than keep going till you beat it. I mean Devil may cry 3 is great at challenging you fairly for the most part the only thing that pisses everyone off is the false angel enemies that like to hide in the walls and away from your attacks.

Edited July 28, 2020 by KANERKB

[MARlNERO]

Grounded mode is about stealth and conservation ammo. Enemies are a bit stronger, yr health a bit lower. There are hundreds more difficult games

[FFATMA]

Grounded mode is my favorite mode when playing this game!  Took me a while to get through the first time, but after playing it a bunch, I can complete the entire game in about 4 hours on Grounded.  

 

I'm very much hoping for Grounded on TLoU2!

Edited July 28, 2020 by FFATMA

[StraightVege]

I liked Grounded, and I wish the sequel had shipped with it. From what I remember, at least when it comes to supplies, the difficulty is overblown, since enemies will always drop something when you're totally out of ammo. I believe you also deal more damage to the enemies on Grounded (the revolver will kill unarmored Hunters in one shot, for instance).

 

Now, Brutal mode in the Nathan Drake Collection is some garbage.

[Shenka]

12 minutes ago, ScarecrowsFate said:

I liked Grounded, and I wish the sequel had shipped with it. From what I remember, at least when it comes to supplies, the difficulty is overblown, since enemies will always drop something when you're totally out of ammo. I believe you also deal more damage to the enemies on Grounded (the revolver will kill unarmored Hunters in one shot, for instance).

 

Now, Brutal mode in the Nathan Drake Collection is some garbage.

 

The lack of resources is definitely the most fun aspect difficulty wise. Its also what terrifies me the most, because in Uncharted its just about being patient and taking cover at the right times. For me, the unstrategic placement of checkpoints (even if there are fewer) bugs me a lot. Then Ellie's entire chapter was just... well, infuriating.

 

I'm much too stubborn to give up though. I've gotten the multiplayer trophies, I'm at the bus depot level on Grounded now. So all thats left is 2 more play throughs (Grounded+, an all collectible playthrough) and I've gotten it somehow. Itll be the most difficult platinum I've gone for thus far, but I am determined as hell to get it. No matter how enraging or time consuming.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Shenka

[TalalHmd]

Why didn’t you start with Grounded+ to carryover your upgrades 

[Shenka]

Just now, TalalHmd said:

Why didn’t you start with Grounded+ to carryover your upgrades 

 

Because I haven't completed Grounded.

[nickr_]

12 minutes ago, Shenka said:

 

Because I haven't completed Grounded.

If you had done a NG+ run you could've started a new run on Grounded + with all your upgrades without having beaten the game on Grounded.

You went for the hard way but once you're done you'll have something to be proud of.

Edited July 28, 2020 by nickr_

[Shenka]

1 minute ago, nickr_ said:

If you had done a NG+ run you could've started a new run on Grounded + with all your upgrades without having beaten the game on Grounded.

You went for the hard way but once you're done you'll have something to be proud of.

 

I havent done a NG+ playthrough at all. Though I've owned the game since launch day on PS3 and PS4, I didnt beat the game until early June right before LoU 2 came out. So I completed a normal playthrough in June, platinumed LoU 2, got the multiplayer trophies and now im doing a grounded playthrough.

 

I was aware of the glitches to bypass the requirement but I didnt see it worth the effort in the long run.

[nrs1nrs1]

8 minutes ago, Shenka said:

 

I havent done a NG+ playthrough at all. Though I've owned the game since launch day on PS3 and PS4, I didnt beat the game until early June right before LoU 2 came out. So I completed a normal playthrough in June, platinumed LoU 2, got the multiplayer trophies and now im doing a grounded playthrough.

 

I was aware of the glitches to bypass the requirement but I didnt see it worth the effort in the long run.

its a very minor glitch and lets you avoid a bunch of pain since you'll have upgraded weapons and pill upgrades. 

[nickr_]

8 minutes ago, Shenka said:

 

I havent done a NG+ playthrough at all. Though I've owned the game since launch day on PS3 and PS4, I didnt beat the game until early June right before LoU 2 came out. So I completed a normal playthrough in June, platinumed LoU 2, got the multiplayer trophies and now im doing a grounded playthrough.

 

I was aware of the glitches to bypass the requirement but I didnt see it worth the effort in the long run.

In the end you chose the harder option. You could've gotten every upgrade and collectible in a normal + run and then gone for Grounded +. It's actually easier in the long run.

[Dauersack]

Can't say I agree with Grounded being that bad, especially not compared to Uncharteds atrocious brutal difficulty. This difficulty here punishes you for wasting ammo, for being impatient, it rewards creative approaches and tests your abilities to plan ahead how you will use everything around you, from obstacles to bottles/bricks to Ellie. If you use stealth properly and conserve what little ressources you have, none of the bigger fights will be a problem, maybe aside from the bloater fight as Ellie that just felt kinda crappy. The most important thing is that you have all the time in the world to plan your approach, you do not get shot at all the time and have to rely on rng like with Uncharted, you do not usually die instantly either, or get spawn killed a dozen times until you get lucky and finally can attempt it again. I am all in the mood of shitting on Naughty Dog at the moment for a variety of reasons, and I agree they have some really crappy tendencies, including these shitty cheap difficulty modes like brutal difficulty, but i simply do not see Grounded in that same category, to me it was hard but fair and usually not frustrating, played through it normally and then ng+.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Nighcisama

[Shenka]

1 minute ago, nrs1nrs1 said:

its a very minor glitch and lets you avoid a bunch of pain since you'll have upgraded weapons and pill upgrades. 

 

I considered it. I just didnt go for collectibles in my playthrough so it wouldnt have been as helpful. Since I had started and played through the first 80% of the game at least five times before, it was super easy for me to speed through. As a result I didnt collect or amass much in my initial playthrough. So for that reason I figured it best to just start from scratch and do things as the developers intended. Its definitely the harder route for sure, but its what I did.

 

Do you, or anyone else, know if unlocks and collectibles carry over into a second NG+ playthrough? So like after I finish Grounded+, can I do NG+ again and still finish up whatever's left after my two Grounded playthroughs?

[Elvick_]

Bluepoint added Brutal to Uncharted, it’s the one stain on their otherwise excellent port/remake work. Utter trash “design”. 

[MARlNERO]

1 hour ago, TalalHmd said:

Why didn’t you start with Grounded+ to carryover your upgrades 

Cause it is a challenge

[Spacey_Dweeb]

Interesting take. I agree with bad check points but overall really enjoyed the Grounded playthrough. I absolutely hated Brutal in Uncharted and won't even consider attempting it again. But I thought that was Bluepoint or whoever it was that remastered it. 

[Shenka]

Just now, spacey_dweeb said:

Interesting take. I agree with bad check points but overall really enjoyed the Grounded playthrough. I absolutely hated Brutal in Uncharted and won't even consider attempting it again. But I thought that was Bluepoint or whoever it was that remastered it. 

 

This has been pointed out, and so I apologize for blaming Naughty Dog for that. I incorrectly thought the game was remastered by ND.

[Spacey_Dweeb]

1 minute ago, Shenka said:

 

This has been pointed out, and so I apologize for blaming Naughty Dog for that. I incorrectly thought the game was remastered by ND.

 

 

I should have read the whole thread before replying. No need to apologize for mixing it up. Even if it was the other company's idea, I think ND should have play tested that stuff before letting it be published. 

[TalalHmd]

28 minutes ago, MARlNERO said:

Cause it is a challenge

 

the upgrades are hardly game breaking, though. plus you won’t be fully upgraded anyway 

 

better than playing Grounded twice imo, not that I don’t like Grounded or find it too hard, but it’s time saving

 

1 hour ago, Shenka said:

 

Do you, or anyone else, know if unlocks and collectibles carry over into a second NG+ playthrough? So like after I finish Grounded+, can I do NG+ again and still finish up whatever's left after my two Grounded playthroughs?

if I’m not mistaken, yeah everything keeps carrying over as long as you finish the game so they get permanently saved  

Edited July 28, 2020 by TalalHmd

[PhyrxianLibrarin]

I'm up to the high school escape, and to be honest, it's not terrible. The lack of HUD and indicators about your current status just means you play a lot more stealthy and cautious. I find myself sneaking throughout the entire game, using bricks and bottles for distractions, and leaving most enemies alive. The bow is really really good and can one-shot all non-armor-wearing enemies while making no noise, and most of the time you get the arrow back!

 

In the rare cases you can't stealth a section, the pattern seems to be:

 

- Run around and find a brick

- Use it to kill a runner

- Repeat until all runners are dead

- Run away from clickers until they lose track of you

- That's it!

 

It's a lot of trial and error to figure out the "correct" way to beat a section, which is why I agree the lack of checkpoints is pretty bad. I was stuck in the capitol building for a long time killing the same hallway of guards for an entire night because I couldn't figure out the second part. I think this is developers trying to be more like Dark Souls in their checkpoint usage, not realizing how DS's checkpoint system is built into the gameplay itself. Having to replay the same narrative section and listen to the same line readings over and over isn't fun for anyone.

[bikeman223]

On 28/07/2020 at 7:07 AM, nickr_ said:

If you had done a NG+ run you could've started a new run on Grounded + with all your upgrades without having beaten the game on Grounded.

You went for the hard way but once you're done you'll have something to be proud of.

Are you talking about this glitch? https://www.playstationtrophies.org/forum/the-last-of-us/243684-faq-how-2-playthrough-new-game-glitch.html