So THIS is allowed, but panty shots are a no go?!

[Ancestral_Spirit]

I am so fucking confused......

 

So the first video i found on this game was a platinum walkthrough guide, and the first trophy appears to be, you have to watch your MC take a shower. Full boobage, no steam covering the naughty bits.

So THIS is ok, but games like Neptunia RPG get censored because you can see a girls pants while she's sat down playing a video game.

Or Dragon Star Varnir, where you can see a girls underwear while she flies away on a broomstick.

 

I mean, the game is legit telling you to lewd on your MC to get an achievement, but Neptunia RPG, Dragon Star Varnir etc. just want you to play the games and even gives you the option to skip the cutscenes if you don't wanna see it.

 

Sony, i hate censorship, but just make up your fucking minds.

Or you already have done and you just hate Japanese devs  >.< 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Ancestral_Spirit
typo

[Troz]

I watched the walkthrough... for research purposes...

 

nudity is allowed in playstation games. look at GTA 5, or Paper's Please

 

maybe if its tasteful, I don't know. but to suggest Sony hates Japanese devs is just idiotic.

[AihaLoveleaf]

"Artful nudity" from a non-Japanese developer wins once again. Sad times for gamers of culture.

[Ancestral_Spirit]

7 minutes ago, HYPERS said:

maybe if its tasteful, I don't know.

Tell you what, you go look at the first video you find for this game and you let me know if you think it's 'tasteful'  

 

EDIT: Just noticed that you already admitted to watching it and still claimed the 'tasteful angle' somehow?

 

Plus you're rewarded for it. You are rewarded specifically for watching someone shower. I mean if you think that's tasteful.......  

Edited May 26, 2021 by Ancestral_Spirit

[Dark_Overlord]

5 minutes ago, HYPERS said:

but to suggest Sony hates Japanese devs is just idiotic.

 

They do treat them differently though, it's well known how Sony America are forcing Japanese devs to jump through hoops and forcing censorship on only their games.

[JoesusHCrust]

Maybe it's age? I'm not familiar with those games so don't know. Titty shots are fine but little girl knicker shots are a bit creepy! Could be that? 

[Ancestral_Spirit]

Western Devs:

The Last Of Us Part 2 - Main character taking it from behind, boobs out. A-OK

Dante's Inferno - Lady love completely nude. Satan swinging cock and balls out while you fight him. Lust realm where ladies throw penis tentacles out of their vagina's. A-OK

The Order 1986 - Man cock and balls out after shagging a prostitute, whilst said prostitute has titties out. A-OK

GTA - I mean, just GTA lol. A-OK

The True - Watch your main character take a shower in slow motion, and get rewarded with a trophy for it. A-OK

Watchdogs 2 - (Here's a weird one) Man cock and balls out, but when women got the same treatment, twitter mob complaints. A-OK for men to be nude, but not women for reasons?

 

Japanese Devs:

Devil May Cry 5 - Butt crack. HOW DARE YOU SHOW BUTTCRACK, BEAM OF LIGHT GO!!!

Dragon Star Varnir - Girl flies away on broomstick, panties can be seen while she flies away. NO, NO GIRLS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO WEAR SKIRTS WHILE ON BROOMSTICKS. DELETETHIS!

Neptunia RPG - Vert plays game console, in comfort of her own room, panties can be seen. NO COMFORT ALLOWED, NIGHTWEAR NEEDS TO COVER WOMEN MORE!

Fairy Tail - Lucy wears a skirt, while making a combat move you can see up her skirt. NO UPSKIRTS, STARE INTO A BLACK VOID INSTEAD. PATCH IT OUT!!!

 

Don't worry i'll edit this when i find more 

3 minutes ago, JoesusHCrust said:

Maybe it's age? I'm not familiar with those games so don't know. Titty shots are fine but little girl knicker shots are a bit creepy! Could be that? 

Please explain Trish from DMC, Vert from Neptunia RPG and Lucy from Fairy Tail?

 

Trish looks mid 20's or older

Vert looks early 20's

Lucy is 19

[atlasxof-]

There's literally only one scene with nudity in this game, and it's only the nipples showing for less than 5 seconds, you can't even see the other parts cause it's blurred.

 

"Devil May Cry 5 - Butt crack. HOW DARE YOU SHOW BUTTCRACK, BEAM OF LIGHT GO!!!" - It's fixed for most of the regions except Europe iirc. 

[Ancestral_Spirit]

Just now, atlasxof- said:

There's literally only one scene with nudity in this game, and it's only the nipples showing for less than 5 seconds, you can't even see the other parts cause it's blurred.

 

Yes but the argument put forth is that titties are allowed, but underwear is not. Which to me makes no sense.

If i go onto a beach in a 2 piece swimsuit i don't expect to be told off.

However if i was topless on a non topless beach, i'd expect some repercussions.

 

Sony seem to be taking the, rules for some and not others approach.

 

The other argument being made on here is that the nudity in this game is tasteful, whilst others aren't.

I would argue that being rewarded with a trophy for watching a woman shower, isn't really what i'd call tasteful.

 

I have no issues with nudity in games, what i hate is the double standard and the complete lack of consistency in what Sony decides is ok and what is not.

[TimeLordCrow13y]

43 minutes ago, HYPERS said:

I watched the walkthrough... for research purposes...

 

nudity is allowed in playstation games. look at GTA 5, or Paper's Please

 

maybe if its tasteful, I don't know. but to suggest Sony hates Japanese devs is just idiotic.

 

This is the first time I’ve seen anyone suggest GTA is “tasteful.” 

 

21 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

Western Devs:

The Last Of Us Part 2 - Main character taking it from behind, boobs out. A-OK

Dante's Inferno - Lady love completely nude. Satan swinging cock and balls out while you fight him. Lust realm where ladies throw penis tentacles out of their vagina's. A-OK

The Order 1986 - Man cock and balls out after shagging a prostitute, whilst said prostitute has titties out. A-OK

GTA - I mean, just GTA lol. A-OK

The True - Watch your main character take a shower in slow motion, and get rewarded with a trophy for it. A-OK

Watchdogs 2 - (Here's a weird one) Man cock and balls out, but when women got the same treatment, twitter mob complaints. A-OK for men to be nude, but not women for reasons?

 

Lust for Darkness- Western dev and apparently censored to hell (like, an initially AO game made appropriate for 13 year olds from what I’ve heard) in the console “Dawn Edition.”  

 

Sony’s censorship policies are stupid and inconsistent, but they don’t exclusively target Japanese games. 

 

@Ancestral_Spirit I agree that getting a trophy for watching a woman shower isn’t at all tasteful. Reminds me of the achievement (not sure if it’s also a trophy or not, haven’t played the PS3 version) you get for purposefully looking up the main character’s skirt in Lollipop Chainsaw. Love the game, but that achievement is unnecessary. The one in this game is worse IMO. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by TimeLordCrow13y

[DrBloodmoney]

There is a heightened level of scrutiny put on Japanese developers because there are cultural differences in the way - and the places in which - nudity is applied.

 

Japanese culture allows for significantly more sexualisation of underage girls than western sensibilities allows for (and conversely, for the more common and accepted infantilisation of ‘adult’ character - i.e. big eyes, ‘girlish’ behaviour etc.

That means nudity in Japanese developed game is treated with more kid-gloves, as there is a much higher chance of Japanese developed games with nudity being viewed by Western culture as inappropriate, than the other way around.

 

For example, some people in both cultures might be ‘offended’ in a purely prudish way about, say, Madison getting her knockers out in a shower scene in Heavy Rain, but no person of either culture would be making the argument than the reason for offence is that she appears to be a minor.

Because Japan has a cultural acceptance of infantilised women characters and implied or overt sexualisation of young girls, the same cannot be said of something like Neptunia - while the character might be technically ‘of-age’ the art style makes it more ambiguous, and so it is treated differently.

 

In the end, it is about the potential media view, were such a story to happen.

 

Sony could look perfectly good fighting a media battle to defend nudity in games as long as eveyone is very clearly, and visually, adult - they would be the good guys, crusading for freedom of expression and the furthering of the medium as an art-form...

... but that would all fall apart if they looked like they were defending ‘pseudo-paedophillic’ games - and the Japanese developed stuff is where the ammunition that some outlets could use for that argument would come from...

 

...even if it would be, for the most part, no more than a rampant misuse by nefarious people with an agenda.

Edited May 26, 2021 by DrBloodmoney

[Riszcky]

Japan has strict laws with nudity. If they're a Japanese company and get their games sent through a Japanese rating board/system, then those games will adhere to Japanese laws. They can, however, get their games rated through an international rating board which may allow nudity, but that will affect their sales in Japan which is obviously going to be where their largest profit would come from.

I don't know much else than that, if they can have multiple ratings for different countries, and why it can't be censored in Japan and other countries with similar laws but not others. My guess is that it's a law thing in Japan and better profit for devs.

I very highly doubt Sony hates Japanese devs an that's why it is how it is..

[Ancestral_Spirit]

1 hour ago, TimeLordCrow13y said:

Lust for Darkness- Western dev and apparently censored to hell (like, an initially AO game made appropriate for 13 year olds from what I’ve heard) in the console “Dawn Edition.”  

 

Sony’s censorship policies are stupid and inconsistent, but they don’t exclusively target Japanese games. 

 

Oh i wouldn't suggest that Sony exclusively target Japanese devs, it just seems as though they get targeted more often.

 

I just don't understand the necessity of censorship in games for the most part. I mean, if a game has the 18+ rating on the front, you don't sell it to, or allow, people under the age of 18 to buy it.

Yet parents have been letting their under the age of 18 kids play CoD, and go and buy them said games.

 

The 'think of the children' argument is another i see get brought up when it comes to censorship in gaming.

We have an age rating system for a reason, the fact that people willingly ignore it and then complain about it after the fact, just fucks up the gaming market in general.

Edited May 26, 2021 by DaivRules
Edited out the slur

[Dreakon13]

I don't think there should really be any censorship beyond the obvious stuff... but I always find the passion people have against censorship of their young anime girls a bit bizarre lol.

[TimeLordCrow13y]

11 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

The 'think of the children' argument is another i see get brought up when it comes to censorship in gaming.

We have an age rating system for a reason, the fact that people willingly ignore it and then complain about it after the fact, just fucks up the gaming market in general.

 

Oh, I completely agree that the “think of the children” crowd should fuck off. I’ve played games since I was around 6. Didn’t buy my first “T” rated game until I was around 11 (although I did play a couple before then) and bought my first “M” rated game at 17. Never felt like I was missing out on anything either when I was younger tbh. If one doesn’t want their kids to be exposed to mature content, it’s harder these days, but games are one of the easier things to control access to, due to the ratings system. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by TimeLordCrow13y

[Ancestral_Spirit]

@DrBloodmoney

I'm glad that someone actually put forth a well thought argument for this as opposed to the usual response i get which is 'you're wrong and i don't like it!'

 

In any case, i completely understand your argument and it is a very fair point 

I get that cultural differences are a major issue when it comes to what should or should not be censored when it comes to games.

Sometimes however i do think another major deciding factor in this is less to do with cultural differences and more to do with money.

 

Let's take Studio Ghibli for example.

The film Nausicaä Of The Valley Of The Wind has an age rating of 7+, yet this has upskirt shots of an underage character, and yet people are perfectly fine with this. Studio Ghibli makes a shit ton of money in Japan and in the West.

If Japanese games made as much money in the west as their western counterparts, i'd think you'd probably find that the rules and regulations that Sony have would be far more lax.

 

I can guarantee that no matter what, games like GTA that are big money makers for Sony will NEVER be censored. Even in GTA 5 where the main characters daughter Tracey De Santa talks about being in porn when she could be mistaken for someone who is under 18 since i don't think they ever mention her age in game. From the way she acts, i thought she was 16/18.

 

@Dreakon13

I understand why you would find that weird, i get plenty of people that say the same thing, and i can understand their point of view.

To me however, i can't really associate real children, with anime characters.

I've been called a pedo before now because i like certain kinds of anime and vn's.

But what those people don't seem to understand is that i find pedophilia to be one of the most disgusting things on the face of this earth. I get a physical and visceral sickening reaction when i hear stories about real kids who have been abused, it's one of the worst things you could ever do to a human being, and it's something that can affect them for the rest of their life.

 

To me, animated cartoons and real life human beings are completely incomparable.

An animated character is not real. It doesn't feel anything. It doesn't get sad, or angry or happy and anything that does happen to them, doesn't really happen. My brain can emphatically tell the difference between what is fake and what is real. If it's fake, my brain can tell me as such. If it's real, my body tells me as such by making me physically sick.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Ancestral_Spirit

[Varhur]

Society.

 

We live in one.

[arcanehornet_]

8 minutes ago, Varhur said:

Society.

 

We live in one.

Gamers, rise up.

[Fro_Jangles]

I completely agree with you.  I feel like the censorship is getting a little more lax (like the stuff in that Delicious girls Mahjong game), but with Sony anything is possible

[Ancestral_Spirit]

8 minutes ago, TimeLordCrow13y said:

Oh, I completely agree that the “think of the children” crowd should fuck off. I’ve played games since I was around 6. Didn’t buy my first “T” rated game until I was around 11 (although I did play a couple before then) and bought my first “M” rated game at 17. Never felt like I was missing out on anything either when I was younger tbh. If one doesn’t want their kids to be exposed to mature content, it’s harder these days, but games are one of the easier things to control access to, due to the ratings system. 

 

My parents let me play things like the first Resident Evil game when it released. For context, i was born in 1990.

But my parents never complained at the game or Capcom for making it, because they knew the age rating was there for a reason, and thought that by explaining to me that zombies weren't real and it was just a game, that i'd be ok playing it.

It still scared the shit outta me, but i've taken that premise for pretty much all games, ya know apart from certain games where they're based on real life events. I still understand the game isn't real, but tend to research the real events after the fact.

 

Seems like your parents took about the same approach mine did 

 

If people are that bothered about what their kids see in games, they should research it first to know whether or not they think their child is mature enough to view it. Or as we both stated, check the age rating, it ain't there for shits and giggles.

 

Additional - The age rating for 'The True' is 16+ for nudity.

So why is it that Sony wanted these games censored for panty shots, when they could have just slapped a 16+ or 18+ age rating on it?

Of course, for the sake of argument i'm talking about games like the aforementioned titles with characters that are explicitly shown or stated to be over 18.

This is actually how they got around certain aspects of the Atelier Rorona game. In the original booklet i think they say she's 15, so they just upped the age in the manual to 18/19, and she still fits the bill for that age in terms of looks.

[Dreakon13]

24 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

An animated character is not real. It doesn't feel anything. It doesn't get sad, or angry or happy and anything that does happen to them, doesn't really happen. My brain can emphatically tell the difference between what is fake and what is real. If it's fake, my brain can tell me as such. If it's real, my body tells me as such by making me physically sick.

 

While I can understand why you might not feel as much disgust by the young animated girls, as you would real girls... it doesn't explain why one makes you feel such disgust, yet you fight so vehemently for the other lol.  You understand they are comparable on some level right?  Even if one isn't technically hurting a kid.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Dreakon13

[Walt the Dog]

26 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Sony could look perfectly good fighting a media battle to defend nudity in games as long as eveyone is very clearly, and visually, adult - they would be the good guys, crusading for freedom of expression and the furthering of the medium as an art-form...

... but that would all fall apart if they looked like they were defending ‘pseudo-paedophillic’ games - and the Japanese developed stuff is where the ammunition that some outlets could use for that argument would come from.

 

Thing is that as far as the last few years, Sony basically started this in the first place. Nintendo has been allowing this stuff in anything outside of their own published stuff (i.e. Fire Emblem, Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water) since a good while ago (at least as far back as 2007 if we wanna count Doki Doki Majo Shinpan on the DS in Japan; A.K.A. the infamous witch groping game) and Xbox mostly gets to sidestep the issue seeing as the only game in recent history to have this sort of content and make an attempt to come to Xbox was Gal*Gun Returns. Steam has it's own controversies regarding how far it'll go in allowing eroge on the service, but then that's an entirely different ballpark due to the sheer difference in content between that and something like Senran Kagura or Neptunia, not to mention games lime SK or Neptunia don't really face censorship on Steam and in fact, Steam has been home to uncensored versions of a couple games that early-to-mid 10's rating boards saw unfit for console release such as Monster Monpiece.

 

Assuming Sony were to actually end their policy of censoring anime games, they could pretty much just do it quietly and not draw any real attention to it themselves because there's no-one to really use as a counterpoint unless Microsoft suddenly becomes big with niche JP devs for whatever reason (doubtful at best). Hell, that's pretty much what Nintendo's doing and there's a dearth of articles suddenly positioning the Switch as the pedophile console. Stuff like Omega Labyrinth Life and Moero Chronicle H shows up on the Nintendo e-Shop and no one really bats an eye except for the people that were interested in this stuff in the first place since, well, this is all niche content that gets no real attention in the mainstream. Assuming anyone ever does come across it who is disturbed by that content, the usual reaction is not to grab a pitchfork and boycott Nintendo, but instead think that that's kinda fucked up and just go about one's day. Hell, I'd bet that the people who usually show up in these very threads to bat back at the people clamoring for weeb games to go uncensored aren't exactly basing their console purchasing decisions around whether their console of choice has Senran Kagura games on it or not. The topic just shows up, they decide to bat back at the weebs for a bit because they think the weebs are creepy and it gives them something to do for a day, and then they move on with their lives until the topic dredges itself back up again.

[Ancestral_Spirit]

Just now, Dreakon13 said:

 

While I can understand why you might not feel as much disgust by the young animated girls, as you would real girls... it doesn't explain why one makes you feel such disgust, yet you fight so vehemently for the other lol.  You understand they are comparable right?  Even if one isn't technically hurting a kid.

 

But they're not comparable, because they don't exist.

This is exactly the point where the arguments fall apart for me.

I don't understand people that can compare a cartoon to a real life human being.

And people arguing against that, seem to think that a cartoon and a real life human are comparable.

 

One makes me feel disgusted because it's actually happening to real people.

The other doesn't because i know it's not happening to a real person.

I would argue that people who equate real life human beings and animated cartoons have more issues than i do.

 

So no, i don't find them comparable. People who can't distinguish fiction and reality have something wrong with them.

 

For more context, i'll explain to you my feelings on films like 'A Serbian Film'.

I watched that film because i'd heard it pushes the boundaries of what can even be put to film. The film had no rating and therefore couldn't technically be shown in cinema's and the like. I was curious, and so i watched it. There are a few certain scenes that i won't explicitly go into, but they involve a child. Not a teenager playing a child, i mean an actual child. Obviously nothing is really happening to the kid, but the idea is still put forth and acted (without nudity on the childs part i might add).

I had to stop watching during a certain scene, because i had to physically run to the toilet to throw up.

It was acted by a real child. It LOOKED like a real child. It's one of the most abhorrent scenes ever put to film that i've ever witnessed and to this day i have literal nightmares about it. It's even making me feel queasy now even thinking about it.

 

THAT is the level where my brain stops being able to take away the fictional aspect, BECAUSE it was starring a real child.

If it was animated, i don't think i would have given a shit   

[Dreakon13]

3 minutes ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

 

But they're not comparable, because they don't exist.

This is exactly the point where the arguments fall apart for me.

I don't understand people that can compare a cartoon to a real life human being.

And people arguing against that, seem to think that a cartoon and a real life human are comparable.

 

One makes me feel disgusted because it's actually happening to real people.

The other doesn't because i know it's not happening to a real person.

I would argue that people who equate real life human beings and animated cartoons have more issues than i do.

 

So no, i don't find them comparable. People who can't distinguish fiction and reality have something wrong with them.

 

For more context, i'll explain to you my feelings on films like 'A Serbian Film'.

I watched that film because i'd heard it pushes the boundaries of what can even be put to film. The film had no rating and therefore couldn't technically be shown in cinema's and the like. I was curious, and so i watched it. There are a few certain scenes that i won't explicitly go into, but they involve a child. Not a teenager playing a child, i mean an actual child. Obviously nothing is really happening to the kid, but the idea is still put forth and acted (without nudity on the childs part i might add).

I had to stop watching during a certain scene, because i had to physically run to the toilet to throw up.

It was acted by a real child. It LOOKED like a real child. It's one of the most abhorrent scenes ever put to film that i've ever witnessed and to this day i have literal nightmares about it. It's even making me feel queasy now even thinking about it.

 

THAT is the level where my brain stops being able to take away the fictional aspect, BECAUSE it was starring a real child.

If it was animated, i don't think i would have given a shit   

 

Whether you see them as comparable is beside the point.  Why do you want the animated version so badly if the real version fills you with so much disgust?

 

EDIT: I understand not caring, because they aren't real.  I don't understand wanting it.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Dreakon13

[ShadeSplit]

I was looking forward to Super Neptunia RPG, too.

 

11 hours ago, Ancestral_Spirit said:

I just don't understand the necessity of censorship in games for the most part. I mean, if a game has the 18+ rating on the front, you don't sell it to, or allow, people under the age of 18 to buy it.

Yet parents have been letting their under the age of 18 kids play CoD, and go and buy them said games.

 

The 'think of the children' argument is another i see get brought up when it comes to censorship in gaming.

We have an age rating system for a reason, the fact that people willingly ignore it and then complain about it after the fact, just fucks up the gaming market in general.

 

Censorship is never necessary. These are merely video games. You always have the power to choose what to play or buy, which means you can simply not support any game you don't agree with. I have no interest in a game like The Last of Us, but you will never see me asking for it to be altered to suit myself. Instead I leave it to those that do enjoy it, while I move on to games that do suit me. It's a shame we live in a world where only the majority gets that courtesy, while everyone else must conform to what the majority decides is best.

Edited May 27, 2021 by ShadeSplit