How does the community want the "PS5 OS Autopop 'Glitch'" cheater reports to be handled?

[DeepEyes7]

8 minutes ago, THEONE_EU1 said:

PS4 games played on PS5 has the issue

 

That's not how they wrote it...

 

"Worse case on my PS4"

"I think this ALL put together the PS5/PS4 can’t handle it at some moments"

 

But ok....

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by DeepEyes7

[THEONE_EU1]

16 minutes ago, Bumperklever said:

 

I believe in the past, these kind of decisions are made fully by sly. With the example of open source servers (allowed) vs closed source servers (not allowed).

 

Either it was this one or another gray case, but there was a case were a few CRT members  openly spoke out about it being allowed, but sly rather didnt have it allowed.

So the end, the decision and was it not being allowed, but that is how the CRT works.

 

First get information, arguments in favour and against a concept and throw it into the group. Ultimately sly decides what he thinks is correct. The CRT will take action on that decision.

... Atleast that is how it worked previously...

 

 

One thing I wonder and that I am not sure if tried before, is what happens when you try to boot the game offline (if that is possible)? and then sync it afterwards.

Hell, it should factor out the immediate syncing and checking online for the trophy list, which should help it actually performing like normal.

 

It works but then you have to constantly turn off and on the connection plus the licenses for the games time out since Internet is turned off. Its a terrible workaround imo

[The_Punisher_NL]

@Bumperklever

 

Thanks for your message.

I personally checked all in online modus because i liked to be online because of messages, friends, party, check store. For me its a little bit annoying to switch every time from online to offline and vice versa, i think then my problem becomes to forget it when i play in online or offline modus and that witch my 2 accounts switching. And i personally don’t like to erase games wich i have earned trophys to earn them again and hope that it wil go fine, when i got a trophy it counts for me on that time, and not erase it and do it again. That feeling is not right for me, to make trophys not feels natural. Maybe there are people playing offline and can tell his story about this problem.

 

Cheers Richard

[The_Punisher_NL]

@masaru-san

 

Thanks for the message.

I understand how you are thinking and i did not think about this way. But i have around 10-12 accounts in total who i do not vote with it because that are accounts which i only buy games on it in different country’s and for me these accounts i will not Vote with them because what you say it’s not fair. And if the system says only 1 vote with 1 person then they can remove 1 vote. But with these 2 accounts you can see, i am both Premium Member and that both accounts are serious accounts thats why i voted with both.

So you can see that some people think different ? 

 

Cheers Richard

[DeepEyes7]

3 hours ago, masaru-san said:

 

But, based on info in this thread, I can clearly see the two NL accounts are the same person and that they voted for the same answer. How is that fair?

 

Hope the mods can filter the votes by ip too

[Nitro]

21 hours ago, BlindMango said:

Okay so knowing that it could affect any game, I think unlimited without having to hide the game is fine in my opinion. For shovelware, well who cares about those games lol, and then for real games you can take that into account for the time period the OS bug happens until Sony (maybe one day?) patches it. I assume people who cheat a list typically have trophies out of order in the middle or end of a game or something, and not usually one or two trophies are the very beginning? I could be wrong though. Now that I think about it, there was a new game months ago where the trophy list wasn't loading for me and thankfully I noticed it before really playing the game and eventually got it to display - I guess it really can happen to anyone. 

 

But it can probably be assumed that if the first couple of trophies in a real game pop up at the same time out of order, then they were affected by the bug. If it's not the first few trophies though, then they cheated. When setting up the rules initially, I tried to ensure to not fault people for bugs, features, and glitches that they could run into without even knowing about them. To me, this seems like one of those things

 

Next time there's a PS5 OS beta available, people should probably submit this as a bug through the beta feedback form, unless someone has a better idea. Sony has always been painfully difficult to contact for bugs like this, and previously we used their (now closed) forums to spam issues like this to them.

 

Also is it even possible to cheat PS5 trophy lists yet? If not then yeah that's easy, it's definitely just the OS bug lol

Well, its not just at the start of the game for shovelware and shit either. For shovelware, there is a glitch in the system when doing so many quick games in a row, can cause only the plat to show up. This makes it so you don't even know if the trophy listbhas loaded or not. And if you live outside of the US and don't have good internet speed, well good luck.

I think for bigger games it would happen at the start- but if they get the issue where trophies aren't showing up period, then it may be an issue again... idk.

[B1rvine]

First off, nobody is getting flagged on PS5 exclusively, in fact its not even an option (yet). The "bug" occurs because it takes time to sync a large trophy list. It can be because there's a profile with a large number (thousands) of games on a profile, or a profile that's smaller number, but with a large number of unsynced games (a few hundred) that just takes some time to "catch up".

 

Maybe there's more to it, but it can occur on any console type, and any game currently. 

 

Ikemenzi's actual flag demonstrates this, indicated by the length of the game, so it's not just 'one minute EZPZ'.

 

Being that's the case, I'm curious what the community wants the staff to do, say, if in a hypothetical regular longer game, two or more story trophies just autopopped, or maybe consecutive "Upgrade X# items" (e.g 1, 50, 100) that would take significant time. These normally mimic CFW / or save files, and someone mentions this issue specifically, or just says "idk why they autopopped." This would likely be an issue for when someone starts their system, etc, after taking a break the day before.

 

While we can recognize EZPZs aren't intentionally "cheated", it won't be long before every and any game becomes unrecognizable between cheating and / or this "OS glitch."

 

The poll is still open.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by B1rvine

[KimmysGotGame]

On 10/16/2022 at 10:44 PM, BlindMango said:

Next time there's a PS5 OS beta available, people should probably submit this as a bug through the beta feedback form, unless someone has a better idea. Sony has always been painfully difficult to contact for bugs like this, and previously we used their (now closed) forums to spam issues like this to them.

 

Probably the most effective way to have sony make a change would be to have multiple news sites bring it up. When the press x to trophy game came out there was a lot of bad press for the ezpzs on the store. Sony felt pressured to make a change to how they display new games on the store. When it was found out that two "companies" were both owned by the same two people but just split to exceed sony's maximum games published per week limit, sony actually took concrete action to change the storefront. The new games section on PS4 and PS5 stopped showing these spam games at the start. If similar bad press were to come out about these trophy bugs I think sony might feel that same pressure to act on it. I'm not an expert, but it seems like there's no local trophy list installed on the ps5 from the games themselves. It seems like after a game starts the trophy list data comes directly from sony's trophy server instead of from the games themselves. If this was the case then if they were to add local trophy lists to each game then this bug might be resolved.

 

5 hours ago, B1rvine said:

First off, nobody is getting flagged on PS5 exclusively, in fact its not even an option (yet). The "bug" occurs because it takes time to sync a large trophy list. It can be because there's a profile with a large number (thousands) of games on a profile, or a profile that's smaller number, but with a large number of unsynced games (a few hundred) that just takes some time to "catch up".

 

Maybe there's more to it, but it can occur on any console type, and any game currently. 

 

Ikemenzi's actual flag demonstrates this, indicated by the length of the game, so it's not just 'one minute EZPZ'.

 

Being that's the case, I'm curious what the community wants the staff to do, say, if in a hypothetical regular longer game, two or more story trophies just autopopped, or maybe consecutive "Upgrade X# items" (e.g 1, 50, 100) that would take significant time. These normally mimic CFW / or save files, and someone mentions this issue specifically, or just says "idk why they autopopped." This would likely be an issue for when someone starts their system, etc, after taking a break the day before.

 

While we can recognize EZPZs aren't intentionally "cheated", it won't be long before every and any game becomes unrecognizable between cheating and / or this "OS glitch."

 

The poll is still open.

 

 

I think another poll will probably be needed to handle the rules for non-ezpzs. Personally I think one or two games that have stuff like this could be written off as the bug. When there's a pattern across multiple games that's when I think it would start to reach the level where the games would need to be looked into in more depth.

 

On 10/16/2022 at 6:12 AM, TriadThunder-X said:

Seeing as this flagging may have an effect on non-shovelware games...

 

If an operating system bug leads to trophies being earned in an impossible timeframe, which could have an effect on 100% fastest leaderboard placement, the game should be flagged and remain so. Trophies were earned not in the intended manner and may be able to be exploited in the future.

 

This sort of thing is not fair on players who try to get on the 100% fastest leaderboards and should be in the report category of 'trophies earned in an impossible timeframe'. 

 

After some thought, i think players should have unlimited flags on OS based bugs unlocking trophies, however should be hidden. As CRT may not be able to tell the difference between players knowing about the bug/not knowing and players mistakenly having trophies unlock/exploiting, their bugged trophies should not count towards leaderboards and remain hidden.

 

I think the best way to handle the fastest leaderboard placement would be for the site's coders to add an option to remove people from the leaderboards of specific games without adding a flag. I don't think it's likely that that kind of thing would happen though. I don't even know if there are any coders for the site beyond just Sly. If there were then "minor" things people request like hiding stacks from the new trophy list or any other qol improvements from husky's psnp+ extension wouldn't need that extension to happen. More staff, especially more paid staff, would help improve the site so much and make it more competitive with the other trophy sites that are constantly improving. That's probably a topic better discussed in a different feedback thread though.

Edited October 18, 2022 by KimmysGotGame

[visvoer18]

personaly with difficult games I feel like that requires another poll  and I feel like I would have an different oppinion about those games at least

[Thrillhelm]

Better to let a thousand cheaters get away than punishing one innocent.

I cannot take this poll seriously, for one I think people with a grudge against EZPZ games will take the most disencouraging pick, and two people with multiple accounts have an unfair advantage.

[Walt the Dog]

8 hours ago, KimmysGotGame said:

I'm not an expert, but it seems like there's no local trophy list installed on the ps5 from the games themselves. It seems like after a game starts the trophy list data comes directly from sony's trophy server instead of from the games themselves. If this was the case then if they were to add local trophy lists to each game then this bug might be resolved.

 

Decided to look into this and I have found out that list data does still come from the game itself on PS5, not only for PS4 games but also for PS5 games. Went offline, installed Fairy Fencer F: Refrain Chord (PS4) and DDLC (PS5), and I was able to not only get lists to show up for them, but I could even earn trophies in them to sync to the servers later after going back online, correct timestamps and all.

 

In any case, this makes me wonder a bit about how this glitch came about since it seems like the console should still have the local trophy set to fall back on for timestamps, yet for whatever reason it's deciding to override that or it's just not making it at all until whatever online checks it does are done, which definitely seems like a change in behavior if not a glitch outright. Would certainly explain why this has only started happening recently and not ages ago back when the console first launched or even back when we first started getting the glorified trophy dispenser "games."

 

EDIT: Would also like to mention for the weirdos in here stating such to the effect of "lol, it only affects the mega trophy spammers, who cares" or "good, maybe this'll teach those dastardly trophy spammers a lesson," there's at least one case of this happening to someone with a relatively benign trophy amount (~300 plats and ~12,000 trophies), so uh... I would stay vigilant for the time being regardless of your trophy count.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Walt the Dog

[Gattusso02]

12 hours ago, B1rvine said:

Being that's the case, I'm curious what the community wants the staff to do, say, if in a hypothetical regular longer game, two or more story trophies just autopopped, or maybe consecutive "Upgrade X# items" (e.g 1, 50, 100) that would take significant time. These normally mimic CFW / or save files, and someone mentions this issue specifically, or just says "idk why they autopopped." This would likely be an issue for when someone starts their system, etc, after taking a break the day before.

 

While we can recognize EZPZs aren't intentionally "cheated", it won't be long before every and any game becomes unrecognizable between cheating and / or this "OS glitch."

I voted for Unlimited without the need to hide. This would be a nightmare if the short plats I play for fun during busy times or in the middle of the long games would cause such pain.

If it's clearly recognizable that EZPZs aren't intentionally cheated then we shouldn't be considering such flags to stand.

 

Hypothetically if it's happening to longer games for trophies that take longer to accomplish, feel free to inspect more, ask for more proof, talk to the person who is reported to gather more intel.

 

The problem might be that we are treating a flag for an EZPZ 1 minute game and a flag for a long one all the same. If our stance remains unchanged, that this is the standard and all games are equally inspected with the same consequences because we can't draw a line, then I still stand with the innocent and how they were not meant to suffer to tighten up the rules to ensure the guilty remain in check. It shouldn't be at their expense.

[ddrakner]

My opinion.

I voted for 2 games without the requirement to hide them. I will add "just for an initial timespan". Leniency will be given during an initial timespan to let this bug be known by the community and then it's all flags. Similar to black ops 2, people still claim to not know about modded lobbies and it may be true, but on this site is well known after years. Similarly, if you have a game with this bug and after 3 months you have another game with the same bug, second game will be flaggable.

 

I think it's unfair for people to have flags due to some consolle bug, especially in the "first days" of said consolle bug(don't know why it's happening only now, instead of when ps5 came out), but i also understand the point of the CRT.

Everyday it's becoming more and more difficult to keep up a decent leaderboard where people can cheat in any form and shape and make this looks legit. It's already an enormous effort for 4 people to go case by case over hundreds daily reports, if you give people a "free exploitable excuse" lightly all their effort to keep cheaters at bay will be thrown in the bin.

[J-S_93]

I think the poll is pretty unanimous - stop punishing people and don't have them hide games.  People are fine saying just punish people no ifs ands or buts; that is until something silly like the OS glitch or similar happens to you and then you'll change your mind.

 

Trophy system is a ridiculous joke at this point, (all those stacks of shovel-ware...) and it's impossible to police it; and who wants to?

 

I don't even game on my PS5 much due to all the things I hate about it and things that can go wrong, (awful UI, sub-menus and OS is garbage), and mainly only use it for exclusives - Astro etc...

[MonaSaxPayne]

14 minutes ago, J-S_93 said:

I think the poll is pretty unanimous

 

it isn't

 

unanimous means every person, not most people 

[J-S_93]

2 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

it isn't

 

unanimous means every person, not most people 

Fair enough.

[stork77]

I haven't voted.  I guess I don't really understand the "bug" and there seems to be some dispute whether holding off for 15min avoids it or not.  From perusing the disputes from time to time, I can see that cheaters will definitely claim this OS bug caused their impossible timestamps - this loophole will be stretched impossibly large.  At the same time, it's the sort of common problem that can screw anyone over.  It's interesting because this issue stabs at core principles of the LB.  Impossible timestamps won't be a (near) guilt sentence if we allow the bug, thus losing one of the clearest ways of identifying cheaters.  Lots of trophy-hunting normies will get snagged in this and labelled cheaters if we don't.

 

I guess I'm just at the point where I want my card/profile visible, not marked as cheater, not on the LB so the LB purity police aren't going through my profile looking for a way to kick me off, and not have to play ju-u-u-ust so to avoid the various pitfalls that result in flags.  Where does that put me?

Edited October 20, 2022 by stork77

[czDante92]

Look, I really don't know what to think about this, but leaderboards is already ruined with hundreds of cheap, 5 minute platinums, and for me, safety of innocent Average Joe is more important than cleanliness of leaderboards.
I will not vote since I don't fully understand the issue, but honest trophy hunter should never fear ban.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I think there needs to be context. 

 

If you're a new profile using it to pop every trophy...okay, flag and warn. 

 

You have a history on the site, no sketchy trophies otherwise? Forced to hide the game but it should NOT count as one of 3 flags.

[Mellenthin]

I voted "none".

 

Just put a torch to each and every afflicted account, i.e. how you would treat a plague victim.

 

If not, we might all caught the disease.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Mellenthin

[MonaSaxPayne]

@B1rvine any update on this?