How does the community want the "PS5 OS Autopop 'Glitch'" cheater reports to be handled?

[B1rvine]

This poll is to get community feedback on how the "PS5 Autopop Glitch" should be handled, in regards to flags/cheats, for a "semi-whitelist".

 

The tdlr; is super fast games can have impossible timestamps, due to how the system syncs, and problems arise by leaving these flagged for cheating, as well as leaving them unflagged as not cheating. For more information, read the following topic in this forum post. 

 

Currently, this issue only appears to affect EZPZ's, and the consensus is "nobody would cheat such an easy quick game", and that's generally believable, but then again there's been definite cases where simple games such as Aab's Animals was cheated.

 

Potential issues to consider:

• The speedrun leaderboards may severely be impacted.
• This may eventually affect normal games as well.
• The issue is avoidable, if you know about it and how to avoid it.
• The glitch may be used as excuse for longer games, if only a few trophies are autopopped.

 

Voting choices:

If you're wondering where "one/two with the requirement to hide" is, I didn't include it, since effectively the three strike system in place currently would require someone to hide the games.

 

Edit: Added:

Quote

First off, nobody is getting flagged on PS5 exclusively, in fact its not even an option (yet). The "bug" occurs because it takes time to sync a large trophy list. It can be because there's a profile with a large number (thousands) of games on a profile, or a profile that's smaller number, but with a large number of unsynced games (a few hundred) that just takes some time to "catch up".

 

Maybe there's more to it, but it can occur on any console type, and any game currently. 

 

Ikemenzi's actual flag demonstrates this, indicated by the length of the game, so it's not just 'one minute EZPZ'.

 

Being that's the case, I'm curious what the community wants the staff to do, say, if in a hypothetical regular longer game, two or more story trophies just autopopped, or maybe consecutive "Upgrade X# items" (e.g 1, 50, 100) that would take significant time. These normally mimic CFW / or save files, and someone mentions this issue specifically, or just says "idk why they autopopped." This would likely be an issue for when someone starts their system, etc, after taking a break the day before.

 

While we can recognize EZPZs aren't intentionally "cheated", it won't be long before every and any game becomes unrecognizable between cheating and / or this "OS glitch."

 

The poll is still open.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by B1rvine

[maisie666]

If it’s clear that it’s the OS glitch,  I m happy for no flag, I really hope this is fixed by Sony soon.  What a PITA for everyone involved.

Edited October 15, 2022 by maisie666

[MonaSaxPayne]

first of all @B1rvine I appreciate that you're willing to listen to community feedback

 

however, genuine question, u mentioned possibly having a semi whitelist of sorts

 

how will this be implemented, if a regular white list was never implemented (even tho u yourself were an advocate for it) 

 

is this something that Sly would have to do himself? if so.. it already appears like a fruitless endeavour 

[Bloke]

Users know about a potential OS system bug and may use it to cheat other games.

 

Users use the OS system bug for fast 100% leaderboard placement.

 

Once flagged, they use the OS bug as a flag dispute reason and get off free... 

 

No thanks.

[Sendai-Horatio]

My understanding is that this is more the fault of the PS5's own software correct? If that's the case and it's more the fault of the the system, I personally don't think users should be punished. While it may cause improper timestamps like an improperly done vita trick, this seems like something that doesn't require that level of intent or premeditation.

 

If it's people with very high trophy counts that remain susceptible to this bug, they clearly spent a lot of time and effort already doing things legitimately before.

[Helyx]

Hopefully the PS5 gets an update to address this stuff, but I support permanent whitelists for problematic games.

 

19 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

Currently, this issue only appears to affect EZPZ's

 

It's happened to me recently in a very long/grindy multiplayer game. Luckily, I was able to reload the game and try again...now I just let my PS5 sit idle on whatever game I plan to play for about 15 minutes before continuing.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Helyx

[MonaSaxPayne]

10 minutes ago, B1rvine said:

Potential issues to consider:

• The speedrun leaderboards may severely be impacted.
• This may eventually affect normal games as well.
• The issue is avoidable, if you know about it and how to avoid it.
• The glitch may be used as excuse for longer games, if only a few trophies are autopopped.

 

to actually attempt to answer the original question.. I don't think speed run times should matter. a flag should either be correct or not. speed runs are already obsolete with games that have debug menus anyway

 

I'm of the general opinion that as long as any player can pop a trophy while playing a game normally without deliberately modifying the game/save file/console with outside tools, they shouldn't be flagged. yes, sometimes this would mean that actually guilty ppl can cheat and lie that they are innocent... but I'd prefer that innocent ppl not be wrongly flagged just because cheaters might escape through the net as well.. instead of a situation that punishes the legitimately innocent while trying to catch every single cheater 

[DeepEyes7]

The unanimous answer should be that this shouldn't be flagged, but sadly we know (everyone that has seen some dispute threads know how annoying cheaters are) that some people will use this excuse to cheat games...

 

My opinion, the game should be flagged and should be hidden but didn't count for the three strikes.... If this usually happen to ezpz games I doubt that somebody will complain because one of their 30 daily plats doesn't count... But we already saw ikemenzi doing that... Maybe I'm wrong, but how frequent is this glitch if you are one of the usual gamers that go for all the ezpz plats?

[CelestialRequiem]

I'm guessing that having a dedicated flagging system to only be off of an affected game's leaderboard is too technical? 

[PraiseTheFluppi]

I think people with this problem shouldn't get flagged, but should be required to hide the game(s) in question.
It's still not 100% clear when and especially why this happens, there are only speculations, so trying to avoid it could become difficult. It seems to only happen to really fast 'games' and/or people with high amounts of games/trophies, but there have been exceptions already (assuming said exceptions really are caused by the PS5 bug, and not actually cheated). And who knows, the problem might get worse. As far as I know, the problem is relatively new, isn't it? Or is this a known bug since the PS5 came out?

Hiding the game(s) should still be a thing though, that way:

1. people who care about fastest achiever leaderboards can still get legitimately competitive
2. if there actually is a cheater that uses the bug as an excuse, they still had to hide the game and wouldn't have any benefit from that
3. anyone actually affected by the PS5 bug wouldn't lose their place on the leaderboards

I honestly think this would be the best solution.

Edited October 15, 2022 by PraiseTheFluppi

[Han_the_Dragon]

How did we handle the PS4 bug that would auto-pop trophies from another game (or something along those lines) when the PS4 was released? I think we should take the same approach here.

 

As far as the "Fastest Achievers" leaderboard on PS5, they are irrelevant dure to the amount of legit auto-pop games with save transfer from PS4, so, that's not an issue until the devs stop making it possible..

 

Also, as far as I'm aware, there's currently no way to hack a ps5 to allow people to actually cheat on that system, right? If so, I think all game timestamps should be accepted until there's actually a way to cheat on PS5 (still, I'm completely out of the hacking loop, so I may be wrong and it's already possible to cheat on PS5...)

 

As for my vote, I think that if it's impossible to cheat games on PS5 (timestamps or save files), so, I think that those plats should be acceptable for now (no need to hide). And this should be subject to revision if a way to cheat on PS5 is found, or if Sony fixes the bug, in either of those cases, the three strike rule should be enforced for games with strange timestamps earned AFTAR said cheat way is found or Sony fixes the bug.

 

Still, I believe that people that do care about trophies this much should also be wise enough to not take unnecessary risks to ruin their profile.. but that's me at least.. (and I know that the biggest trophy hunters got caught by this bug, but those guys above anyone else, should know not to take unnecessary risks with their profiles..)

[JAK-KRIEG]

No innocent gamer should be flagged in my opinion so be it if a few more cheaters slip through the cracks if that's the price to pay, it's worth it. 

[PortaLuna]

What is this bug? You mean people who auto pop a game like uncharted and transfer their save? So is the debate whether or not to ban over it?

[DeepEyes7]

5 minutes ago, PortaLuna said:

What is this bug? You mean people who auto pop a game like uncharted and transfer their save? So is the debate whether or not to ban over it?

 

Nope, read the thread linked...

 

 

[Dark_Overlord]

I chose the Unlimited (without the requirement of hiding the games) , however I do believe the OP should have to prove they own a PS5

[TheRedMaverick]

I'm conflicted about this. I don't want innocent people to be flagged for this issue yet I don't want bad actors to abuse it either. So I'll choose unlimited without hiding but maybe continue to monitor the situation and if you find people are abusing the leniency, then maybe it'll be worth revisiting and going with one of the other options.

[AJ_-_808]

2 minutes ago, Dark_Overlord said:

I chose the Unlimited (without the requirement of hiding the games) , however I do believe the OP should have to prove they own a PS5

As amusingly ironic as I find this issue to be, I second this.

 

I think flagging due to it affecting fastest achiever for quick platinum games is kindof pointless. I think it affecting normal games should probably be  handled on a case by case basis, especially if the person can be proven (had a prior warning) to have known about this 

[NewVegasNick]

CRT is already spread thin and there are constantly silly flags that take a lot of time before they get lifted.

 

Spending time flagging anyone for this OS glitch is a big waste of time for every party involved.

[dmland12]

This bug is really unfortunate, but it is a bug and shouldn't be flagged.  I voted for the last option.

 

This will give some actual cheaters some additional cover, but the more I think about it, it seems to me that it will likely also give more opportunities for them to mess up (when they think their nonsense can be excused by this, but it actually can't).

[PhyrxianLibrarin]

Voted no flag. The real issue is that the flagging system can't tell the difference between cheated trophies and legit ones impacted by this bug. If Sly actually cares, he'd fix that, not cover it up by flagging legit players.

Edited October 15, 2022 by PhyrxianLibrarin

[HoorayForTyler]

I don’t think anyone should have to hide a game bc of an OS glitch occurring that’s completely out of their control. Lift all of those bs flags and focus attention on actual cheaters. 

[Han_the_Dragon]

Just for reference, I did some digging..

 

Apply the same ruling (there are more threads from that time about it too)

 

 

[KimmysGotGame]

I'm hugely in favor of unlimited without needing to hide the games. As a personal value I don't think innocent people should be punished just to catch a few guilty people.

 

Less than 10% of the tracked gamers on PSNP have forum accounts so it's very unlikely that the average trophy hunter will know that this glitch is happening or how to prevent it. A decent number of the tracked gamers don't even use the forums until they see that they're no longer on the leaderboards. It seems like a bad business practice to have someone's first interaction with the site's staff being their own futile attempt to prove that they're innocent. If they're told that the widespread bug they experienced is too close to hacking that they need to hide the game I can't imagine that they'd stick with this tracker when the others don't need them to do that.

Edited October 15, 2022 by KimmysGotGame

[hore]

Enjoy the slippery slope of being pressured to whitelist other shit if this is allowed. None of these flags should be waived for the integrity of the leaderboard. 

[iXanon]

I voted for one without the need to hide.

 

One game to be warned about the bug, informed of the workaround, and action for future..

 

However, "the community" appears hell-bent on destroying itself ?