Trophy Spam Issue

[MMDE]

14 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

 

No stack is preferred, if the trophies are the same, there would be some kind of unified title - if one trophy is earned, then that one is earned.

 

In this system you’d not see the PS4/PS5 tag, but this is something you’d have to develop for a new profile system.

 

My solution would just be to follow the algorithm I've laid out for calculating points for the leaderboard. Indeed, you just ignore the extra/different trophies.

 

• Select rarest stack + all below 80%.
• Asset swaps are stacks.
• Platinums are worth less.
• Add some extra points depending on rarity.

 

Do nothing on profiles etc, but the leaderboard counts the trophy points differently. On specific games, or on profile, you could have some indication about the stack not counting on your points.

Edited October 20, 2022 by MMDE

[Mori]

16 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

My solution would just be to follow the algorithm I've laid out for calculating points for the leaderboard. Indeed, you just ignore the extra/different trophies.

 

• Select rarest stack + all below 80%.
• Asset swaps are stacks.
• Platinums are worth less.
• Add some extra points depending on rarity.

 

Do nothing on profiles etc, but the leaderboard counts the trophy points differently. On specific games, or on profile, you could have some indication about the stack not counting on your points.

 

My solution:

 

• Stop supporting hack devs

 

I know, quite the revelation. 

[MMDE]

6 minutes ago, Mori said:

 

My solution:

 

• Stop supporting hack devs

 

I know, quite the revelation. 

 

Doesn't work, quite the unfortunate revelation.

 

I've laid out why several times in this thread. ?

Edited October 20, 2022 by MMDE

[GraniteBeast603]

Here's a question for everyone in the crankypants "anti-spam" brigade. It's a very simple question that requires a very simple answer. If you can't provide a simple answer, then that proves that the "problem" only exists in your head. It will prove that your complaints are nothing but disappointed elitism coupled with self-deprecating guilt over your own FOMO compulsions.

 

If you don't think I'm describing you, then answer this simple question.

 

"What leaderboard rank should you be?" 

 

That's a question that requires a number as an answer. No words. If you need words to answer that question, then you're thinking about this all wrong. Please don't bother responding. I already know what you're going to say. 

 

If you can answer that question with a number, then please subtract it from your current actual rank, and let me know exactly how many leaderboard positions have been *stolen* from you by these vicious, exploitative, conniving, scumbag developers.

 

Let's see if we can actually quantify damages here, or if everyone's brain will just short circuit when they realize no one is actually hurt by any of this.

Edited October 20, 2022 by GraniteBeast603

[Mori]

6 minutes ago, MMDE said:

Doesn't work, quite the unfortunate revelation.

 

I've laid out why several times in this thread. ?

 

Looking at your profile it is no surprise this doesn't work. Do you actually realize the hypocrisy you are spreading here?

[Dauersack]

23 minutes ago, DeadDexterous said:

I'm all for attacking these non games as I've mentioned to people. But I am not for attacking people & their accounts.

People can only climb a leaderboard how it is designed.

You can't be a severe part of a problem and not expect some people to go after you for that, especially if they do it without insulting you, or like in this case, not even mentioning you by name so that many users, myself included, didn't even know who was mentioned until you reacted to it. There are very few accounts on this platform as infested as yours is, you have more gold than bronze trophies, so if we talk about the issue of these games existing, we have no choice but to talk about profiles like yours, since your spending habbits are one of only two reasons that this problem even exists in the first place.

 

I am fine with your account existing, even if I don't like it, but you can't expect people not to point at you and be like "if that guy and others like him didn't buy 1000 stacks of this crap, we wouldn't get our store fronts flooded", that is just something you have to live with now, because it is an undeniable fact. I am also fully convinced that you should not share a leaderboard with people who do not buy this stuff, we should simply have several leaderboards for people with certain playstyles competing against each other, yours only being one of several, hell you would even gain a few ranks so you should be all for it since you care about that enough to throw many hundreds of dollars away to achieve it.

 

2 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

As I said, trolls are not wanted here.

There is a reason others have stopped replying to that obvious troll, you should do the same, nothing good will ever come from acknowledging that ones presence in such a topic.

[monteblommie]

I don't care for the leaderboards nor do i care that these """"""games"""""" exist but what does really piss me off is that the giant amount of shovelware keeps pushing actual games out of the new releases list on the homepage.

I use(d) that list a lot to find new games to play.

I really would like to be able to filter that out by word or developer name.

[PraiseTheFluppi]

14 minutes ago, GraniteBeast603 said:

Here's a question for everyone in the crankypants "anti-spam" brigade. It's a very simple question that requires a very simple answer. If you can't provide a simple answer, then that proves that the "problem" only exists in your head. It will prove that your complaints are nothing but disappointed elitism coupled with self-deprecating guilt over your own FOMO compulsions.

 

If you don't think I'm describing you, then answer this simple question.

 

"What leaderboard rank should you be?" 

 

That's an question that requires a number as an answer. No words. If you need words to answer that question, then you're thinking about this all wrong. Please don't bother responding. I already know what you're going to say. 

 

If you can answer that question with a number, then please subtract it from your current actual rank, and let me know exactly how many leaderboard positions have been *stolen* from you by these vicious, exploitative, conniving, scumbag developers.

 

Let's see if we can actually quantify damages here, or if everyone's brain will just short circuit when they realize no one is actually hurt by any of this.

I personally am a fan of the numbers 69, 420 and 666 ?
But in all honesty, what does MY leaderboard ranking have to do with the problems these pay4plat 'games' cause? Even if I didn't care about the leaderboard at all (which is not entirely the case sadly) the constant discussions and arguments, the exploitive nature of these apps, the devaluation of trophy points, the store that gets crowded, the new trophy list column on the frontpage that looks like trash, the indie games that get buried etc. - all problems connected to these apps. There are so many issues these cash grab apps cause that has nothing to do with the leaderboard.

There is literally no reason to defend these 'games'. The few that do defend them keep coming with the weirdest excuses, I swear.

Why do you defend these games? What is the reason? Why do you go agains the majority of forum members that have good reason to hate what's happening? I'm genuinely curious.

They could disappear and nobody would bat an eye. Everyone would be relieved, and you cannot convince me otherwise.
Unfortunately that's not going to happen.

 

[AJ_-_808]

2 minutes ago, monteblommie said:

I don't care for the leaderboards nor do i care that these """"""games"""""" exist but what does really piss me off is that the giant amount of shovelware keeps pushing actual games out of the new releases list on the homepage.

I use(d) that list a lot to find new games to play.

I really would like to be able to filter that out by word or developer name.

 

The psnp+ app took a step in the right direction by reducing the stacks to a single entry. You may want to give that a look

[DrBloodmoney]

Genuine question:

 

Do people think these games would actually dry up and disappear, if all the major trophy tracking leaderboard sites stopped recognising them?

 

 

 

I'm curious - and I really don't know the answer.

 

I used to think they absolutely would, as I thought the only real source of temptation driving people to "Power Level" with these products was leaderboard sites like this one...

...however, I'm not sure this is necessarily the case now.

 

More and more, I've seen folks saying what they are really pursuing is the "Platinum Badge" from Sony themselves - on the console and app - for reaching Lv.999,  and not any kind of competitive position on a leaderboard on sites such as this one.

 

It does make me wonder.

 

Arguably, PSNProfiles is the last hold out of the trophy sites, still sticking to a single unified leaderboard... and I think that's been admirable up to recently.

TBH, I still baulk at the idea of algorithmically or formulae-driven rarity measurement leaderboards, as they tend to diminish artistry in favour of pure data.

 

Many of the other sites started down the road of "rarity leaderboards" long before the cynical Trophy-Mill products appeared en-masse - more as a response to devs like Ratalaika - which TBH, I found crass then, and find crass now. I think those games are perfectly worthwhile games...

...but now, with such a wealth of trophy-unlocking-products releasing that directly target trophies to the exclusion of anything else - lacking gameplay, or artistry, or even the basic level of quality required to ensure the correct game has the correct image connected to it...

....even a staunch anti-difficulty-elitist like myself has to accept that there is now a genuine argument for action - to at least curtail the dilution of games as a medium by endorsing these products, by treating then as games at all.

 

 

Personally, I don't endorse rarity as a measure of a game, I don't endorse negating stacks, I don't endorse the notion that "challenge" equates to "value" - and I certainly don't endorse attacking people for the games they pay for and play.

 

 I am now forced to admit though, that now, some sort of action from the premier trophy hunting website is likely to be required to plug the stream of these products masquerading as games...

 

...I'm just not sure it is still as certain to have the impact it might have before Sony started offering those badges.  

 

 

 

[AJ_-_808]

Just now, PraiseTheFluppi said:

Snip

 

Ignore the troll

4 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Snip 2

 

 

 

 

There's no perfect solution, but even a couple of small steps in adjusting the site (new games list / collapsing stacks / filtered leaderboards) would go a long way towards restoring it to former glory

[MMDE]

17 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Genuine question:

 

Do people think these games would actually dry up and disappear, if all the major trophy tracking leaderboard sites stopped recognising them?

 

 

 

I'm curious - and I really don't know the answer.

 

I used to think they absolutely would, as I thought the only real source of temptation driving people to "Power Level" with these products was leaderboard sites like this one...

...however, I'm not sure this is necessarily the case now.

 

More and more, I've seen folks saying what they are really pursuing is the "Platinum Badge" from Sony themselves - on the console and app - for reaching Lv.999,  and not any kind of competitive position on a leaderboard on sites such as this one.

 

It does make me wonder.

 

Arguably, PSNProfiles is the last hold out of the trophy sites, still sticking to a single unified leaderboard... and I think that's been admirable up to recently.

TBH, I still baulk at the idea of algorithmically or formulae-driven rarity measurement leaderboards, as they tend to diminish artistry in favour of pure data.

 

Many of the other sites started down the road of "rarity leaderboards" long before the cynical Trophy-Mill products appeared en-masse - more as a response to devs like Ratalaika - which TBH, I found crass then, and find crass now. I think those games are perfectly worthwhile games...

...but now, with such a wealth of trophy-unlocking-products releasing that directly target trophies to the exclusion of anything else - lacking gameplay, or artistry, or even the basic level of quality required to ensure the correct game has the correct image connected to it...

....even a staunch anti-difficulty-elitist like myself has to accept that there is now a genuine argument for action - to at least curtail the dilution of games as a medium by endorsing these products, by treating then as games at all.

 

 

Personally, I don't endorse rarity as a measure of a game, I don't endorse negating stacks, I don't endorse the notion that "challenge" equates to "value" - and I certainly don't endorse attacking people for the games they pay for and play.

 

 I am now forced to admit though, that now, some sort of action from the premier trophy hunting website is likely to be required to plug the stream of these products masquerading as games...

 

...I'm just not sure it is still as certain to have the impact it might have before Sony started offering those badges.  

 

 

 

 

This is very much me, except for that I've made up my mind about some changes I want to see.

 

I have no real issue with stacks, other than the way it's being abused now, and that applies to Ratalaika and the like too. My first stack was Demon's Souls I think, and I'm not arguing that those who has spent a lot of time and effort on doing a game a second time should have that not counted. This is more about targeting stacks of games we know are problematic in terms of spamming just to get those leaderboard points and all that entails from it.

 

I don't want to be the arbiter of what is an easy, fast, good or "real" game or anything like that. Just mathematically, remove the problematic stacks of games, and realize the asset swaps are just stacks of the same trophy spam apps. You can easily tell what stacks are problematic by how how many who 100% them compared to playing it. I don't want to remove the game counting, just we got to end the stack counting when it's exploited in this way.

 

All I really want to see changed is the point score on the leaderboard. Adding some extra points for rarity is not a must, neither is reducing the plat value, but those would be very welcome changes for a lot of people, and I see it works on certain sites. If someone thinks I actually argue to better my ranking, that's not it. In fact, if you just remove stacks, I'm #1 in my country, but if you add some points for rarity, I'm #3, behind some people I think should have those spots.

 

Furthermore, sure, the top spots in my country right now, it's all spam. Recently we got 3 more on top there. I can easily top them by just buying the stacks they've done. I can afford it, absolutely no problem. I just don't want to support this bs, so I don't. Why can I top them, if I wanted? Because it's almost only spam, and I got so much stuff that isn't.

Edited October 20, 2022 by MMDE

[GAchievements]

Let people play what they want. If this really bothers you then you have underlying issues that you need to sort yourself.

 

What other people do and what else is available to those people should not bother you. It does not affect you, it only affects a meaningless leaderboard that offers no real world benefits to you or anyone else.

 

You are not losing out because these games exist and you are not gaining anything of tangible value for them existing either.

 

They are what they are, best to move on and concentrate on yourself because that is what is meant to be important.

[MMDE]

I'll ask some mods to clear out the trolls whenever they appear, until it's cleaned, just ignore them.

[You]

1 hour ago, Mori said:

 

My solution:

 

• Stop supporting hack devs

 

I know, quite the revelation. 

 

Yeah but that's the catch 22. That's not a revelation, that's stating the obvious.
 

I mean, sure I'd personally love to "Stop supporting hack devs".

 

Except I never did. Not like I can boycott games that I was never buying. Who is buying them? Well, people not reading this thread, or worse buying them and here defending this practice.

 

"What's that you say? 12 stacks of The Jumping Sausage?!?! Ooohhhhhhh yeeeeeaaaahhhh tons of trophies, you bet I'm "Jumping" on that band wagon!!!!"

 

Om nom nom.

 

They think they are getting a good deal. Convincing them they are being conned is probably a better idea.

[MoneyShotxox]

My personal opinion is if Sony didn’t do regional stacks of games it wouldn’t have been so bad. 

Regional stacks have been a problem long before these games showed up like for example how many people did the ps vita trick so they could unlock trophies from easy games again or play visual Novels to unlock quick platinums.

So if you could remove regional stacks from the leaderboards that would still be a good solution.

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by MoneyShotxox

[MMDE]

5 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

 

Yeah but that's the catch 22. That's not a revelation, that's stating the obvious.
 

I mean, sure I'd personally love to "Stop supporting hack devs".

 

Except I never did. Not like I can boycott games that I was never buying. Who is buying them? Well, people not reading this thread, or worse buying them and here defending this practice.

 

"What's that you say? 12 stacks of The Jumping Sausage?!?! Ooohhhhhhh yeeeeeaaaahhhh tons of trophies, you bet I'm "Jumping" on that band wagon!!!!"

 

Om nom nom.

 

They think they are getting a good deal. Convincing them they are being conned is probably a better idea.

 

Yeah, I just talked to someone in the top 200. Without even mentioning the change I want to see, we were talking about games we were playing, and they were like, not that long ago I spent a day earning almost 50 plats in a day by just holding x. I told them what I wanted changed, and they wanted that too, as now it's just a matter of who can afford all the spam app stacks and about how it was addicting. He said this, without me even mentioning it. Kids buying these apps just to spam their way to level 999 etc.

Edited October 20, 2022 by MMDE

[pinkrobot_pb]

Just now, enaysoft said:

Not like I can boycott games that I was never buying.

Not only that, but gamer boycot's are so traditionally so completely irrelevant that they may as well be a petition on change.org.

 

To the people that say "Just let people play what they want":

• I agree and they absolutely still can. Even if the main leaderboard changes radically, the games that have been published will not go away. The thinking here is that they will not want to play those games anymore when they cannot use them to jump up the rankings so fast. What will be interesting to see if those games will keep appearing if many, many, many players stop buying them. I think it will slump to numbers where it is no longer a sustainable busines model and these punblishers will move on to other platforms.
• This community needs to reflect on how these trophy apps came to be. Our leaderboards are a major part of that. I have been saying since the Ratalaika games started showing up that this website - and others like that - should accept some accountability for that. I absolutely think that if it was not for the leaderboards on this website (and others like it) that games like Jumping Coackroach would not exist, at least not in these numbers. If you consider the trophy apps as a problem, then we are part of that problem. So yes, it is good to reflect on that role and to see if we can influence it back into a more positive situation if the community finds that desirable.

[AJ_Radio]

1 hour ago, DeadDexterous said:

Since you've decided to mention me (again).

Calling out my account (again).

I'll take your bait.

Stacks? I mean I've never done a region stack. I could do them all. But I'm not.

My account is 3 years old. In that time I've platinumed games like...

Friday the 13th.

Cyberpunk2077.

Heavy Rain.

Vampyr.

The Witcher 3.

Days Gone.

GTA trilogy original.

GTA trilogy remaster.

The amazing spiderman 2.

Marvels Spiderman.

Senran Kagura Estival versus.

Senran Kagura Peach Beach splash.

The Quarry.

Until Dawn.

Worms battlegrounds.

Worms WMD.

Rayman Legends.

Elex.

Elex 2.

Agony.

Resident Evil HD.

Fifa 22.

PES 2020.

Sega Mega Drive classics.

Jumanji.

Deadpool.

Yakuza like a dragon.

DOA Xtreme 3.

The American Dream.

Tekken 7.

Control.

Marvels Guardian of the Galaxy.

Spyro trilogy.

Medievil.

A plague tale.

Kingdom Come Deliverance.

& Many more games that took a good amount of time.

Like almost 100 Arcade Archive games & At least 100 other games that had 100% & no platinum.

I'm all for attacking these non games as I've mentioned to people. But I am not for attacking people & their accounts.

People can only climb a leaderboard how it is designed.

 

My only comment on this thread was my idea of a solution. Nothing more.

 

So this is a genuine request from one person to another. If your a decent person you will accept this request. Leave me be.

You came in here acting like a victim and then purposely removed your trophy profile from this website when you were criticized here on the forums. 
 

I’ve been here since 2014 so I have seen this community change over time. And to me, these forums have gotten worse.
 

Whenever I criticize anything regarding trophies or support threads like the OP, I get attacked for sharing my own vocal views. 
 

I have my share of easy stuff so I cannot say I haven’t indulged in very easy games because then I would be lying. But I know my limits. Perhaps you will do well to heed this. 
 

There is nothing more I will say to you. 

[amurnin100]

30 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

Yeah, I just talked to someone in the top 200. Without even mentioning the change I want to see, we were talking about games we were playing, and they were like, not that long ago I spent a day earning almost 50 plats in a day by just holding x. I told them what I wanted changed, and they wanted that too, as now it's just a matter of who can afford all the spam app stacks and about how it was addicting. He said this, without me even mentioning it. Kids buying these apps just to spam their way to level 999 etc.

Easy to identify those though with more gold and silver trophies than bronze..

 

I gave up these easy games a while ago, it’s an addiction , no one gets satisfaction from pressing X to earn a plat , it’s a trend, easy views on YT and in time will pass, we just got to ride out the storm folks…

Edited October 20, 2022 by amurnin100

[MMDE]

1 minute ago, amurnin100 said:

Easy to identify those though with more gold and silver trophies than bronze..

 

That's what you think... but there are those that give a lot of bronze instead.

[amurnin100]

Just now, MMDE said:

 

That's what you think... but there are those that give a lot of bronze instead.

Damm those sneaky developers!

[MMDE]

2 minutes ago, amurnin100 said:

Damm those sneaky developers!

 

Yeah, hehe, look at the most recent trophy lists... The game after (before in time ?) Tempus...

 

They can't even be arsed to write the name of the animal in the trophy description...

Edited October 20, 2022 by MMDE

[GeminiEntity]

1 hour ago, monteblommie said:

I don't care for the leaderboards nor do i care that these """"""games"""""" exist but what does really piss me off is that the giant amount of shovelware keeps pushing actual games out of the new releases list on the homepage.

I use(d) that list a lot to find new games to play.

I really would like to be able to filter that out by word or developer name.

 

Same here.

 

Looking at the new trophy lists is a good way to find out about new games that I might have missed otherwise, and those shovelware games just clutter it up. Not too bad if you check daily, but if you miss a few days you probably will have some scrolling to do.

[amurnin100]

1 minute ago, MMDE said:

 

Yeah, hehe, look at the most recent trophy lists... The game after (before in time ?) Tempus...

My friend , it’s only click bait to me, least you know given my knowledge , I’ve not checked in a while, fair play to you standing up against these kinda games ?