Trophy Spam Issue

[Zanreo]

Sure, I'm fine with just excluding the stack lists, as long as the "main" list itself is counted. Also agree that the different versions of the asset swap games might as well just be stacks

Edited October 18, 2022 by Zanreo

[ViensDanser]

33 minutes ago, MMDE said:

The only real fix for a main leaderboard is excluding things, but excluding based on rarity would exclude a lot of games that has nothing to do with trophies. We could remove the worst offenders, or we could just go with something that allows for fixing a lot of common complaints.

if you base the trophy exclusion on the rarity of the psn you can be sure to remove only the trash 

above 80% there are almost only these games with very few easy trophy

 

 

 

[MMDE]

Just now, ViensDanser said:

if you base the trophy exclusion on the rarity of the psn you can be sure to remove only the trash 

above 80% there are almost only these games with very few easy trophy

 

 

 

 

This is just not correct. There are a lot of good games with above 80% rarity. Actually, the game I played the most in 2021 has 79% rarity, which may as well have been 81%.

 

I just don't want to reward above 80% rarity stacks on a leaderboard, because I don't think you should be rewarded for easy and quick games multiple times.

[Ashande]

3 hours ago, fbdbh said:

The only objective and democratic thing you could do in a new system is remove stacks. Every stack where trophies are the same. Autopop or not, region or rerelease, doesn’t matter. It’s not a judgmental decision. It’s something you could in theory enforce. This doesn’t solve the spam problem, but it’s making things a bit better, even if you have to give up legit second playthroughs.

 

Banning, removing game series, publishers, however… that’s a vile slippery slope and very much not in the spirit of anything good. Even if it’s about profit-hungry low effort games. I don’t think there exist a moral right to obscure any creation just because a competitive feeling is hurt somewhere. It just feels just as wrong as those exploitative games themselves.

 

 

Not shooting the idea down; just questioning in attempts to understand and refine; putting that first.

 

When you speak of stacks, and trimming things down to one, what sort of mechanics would be involved? For example, with a PS5 autopop; which list would you advocate stays in the calculations? The first one? The more recent one? Whichever one has the better rarity stats? What about situations where one does a partial autopop, then continues/finishes the game? As an example: I did autopop several trophies in the Nioh games, as well as Marvel’s Spider-Man and Maneater, then continued playing from where I was; again, which list is kept? The original, the newer, or the one that is most “complete?” (This gets particularly sticky with Nioh, as some of the trophies earned in one version don’t - or at least, didn’t for me -  carry over and have to be done again.)

 

As related to non-autopop games - or games that cross generations/consoles other than PS4-> PS5 - how would you handle that? As an example, Devil May Cry 2; I owned the PS3 collection when it came out, and happily bought it again when they were reissued for PS4 (partly because I no longer had access to the PS3 disc, partly because I like the games that much), so which stack says? Both, since they’re technically separate entities? The older? The newer? The more rare or the more complete? With my case as an example, would I keep the Platinum for DMC2, or would I have to hunt down a PS3 disc to earn it over there, since that was the original version? What about remakes that are distinct entities but still basically share a list (Yakuza 3 vs. Yakuza 3 Remastered, for example), or GOTY/Special Editions (such as Witcher 3) or GOTY/Special Editions/Remakes that have different lists (usually because they compress DLC trophies into the main list and adjust points/rarity/specific trophies as they see fit) such as Devil May Cry 5 or DmC: Devil May Cry?

 

I’m not deliberately trying to stack my examples with DMC games, I swear; just going from my own Profile to pick from. ?

 

Again, not trying to shoot the idea down, not being defensive - whatever happens, happens, though I will point out for the umpteenth time that I am personally against data manipulation to get the result a given individual wants, rather than objective facts - but merely curious for more specifics on how you would picture such a change working.

[Zanreo]

Eh, there are games with over 80% rarities that aren't just "trash". Even if many do play (or should I say rush through them) for the quick and easy trophies, there are those who genuinely enjoy them as games, whether due to story or just being a quick fun little game to try out

 

As for stacks, only the ones with 80% or higher percentage will be affected with this idea, rarer stacks will stay (though I'm guessing you mean if a game with this rarity had these types of different versions of lists?) I'd argue that if someone actually puts in the time and effort to plat a game that actually requires those things a second time, they deserve those extra lists

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Zanreo

[ViensDanser]

8 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

This is just not correct. There are a lot of good games with above 80% rarity. Actually, the game I played the most in 2021 has 79% rarity, which may as well have been 81%.

all these trophies are above 70% on the psn and it's a good game ?

witch one is it ?

[Zanreo]

15 minutes ago, Ashande said:

so which stack says? Both, since they’re technically separate entities? The older? The newer? The more rare or the more complete?

I'd imagine the most complete list would be the one to show up, and if they were both complete or had the same amount of trophies earned, the rarest one would be shown

[MMDE]

10 minutes ago, ViensDanser said:

all these trophies are above 70% on the psn and it's a good game ?

witch one is it ?

 

What is a good or a bad game is very subjective. The game I was speaking about was Raging Loop. You avoid this entirely by just filtering stacks, the second earning of the same easy/fast stuff.

 

As for Raging Loop, you can read here that it's a VN, but everyone/most who actually reads it enjoys it a lot:

 

[MonaSaxPayne]

4 hours ago, enaysoft said:

 

You'll find a lot of people including myself don't even care about the leaderboard. I just want to come to this site and see what new games have come out and not have them scrolled off the new trophy lists window within hours due to 5 stacks of Stroke The Cucumber, Chump Hump Jump or The Quiz Pig Piss Pants Peas G etc games scrolling spamming the site and making the site more difficult to use.

 

I noticed the trophy list for A Plague Tale: Requiem went live yesterday, and within 30 mins it was pushed off the front page by shovelware lol

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

Shouldn't the LB be removed from concepts of good and bad quality though? If you removed a population of games by plat% it's not an indictment of the quality of those games, it's just that generally speaking those games are dominated by this absolute fucking garbage which is lending a BIG helping hand to the degradation of this hobby and the PSN store which has further-reaching implications than just the site; but it's this site that goes a long way towards that degradation. Just take 80%+ trophies off the LB ffs you can still enjoy your common games but we'd almost single-handedly eliminate this trash's relevancy...

 

Sorry if that sounds like oversimplification but I feel like a "simple" solution in that vein would just be for the best. 

[ViensDanser]

24 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

What is a good or a bad game is very subjective. The game I was speaking about was Raging Loop. You avoid this entirely by just filtering stacks, the second earning of the same easy/fast stuff.

 

As for Raging Loop, you can read here that it's a VN, but everyone/most who actually reads it enjoys it a lot:

 

if we take the rarity of the psn the platinium is below 50%

and like i said only trash games have a platinium above 80% on the psn

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by ViensDanser

[amurnin100]

Personally , keep these games coming  out BUT don’t promote them at all on the site (Forums are an exception in this case), that way no filter is needed for leaderboards.

[VigilantCrow]

I'm not seeing an issue that needs to be fixed. People are getting the accessible games they demanded.

Only real fix is to have custom leaderboards, until that's setup we're not getting a conclusion to this.

[Sikutai]

I can agree that we should do something about stacking. Otherwise the leaderboards will soon become meaningless.

 

I mean, users with multiple accounts will be banned at some point anyway, due to the escalating political situation. But that can easily take another 20 years. Until then, I suggest only counting one stack per console, i.e. a PS4 stack and a PS5 stack.

[PerryToxteth]

8 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Only in the sense that you can get the same amount of calories from eating a gourmet meal, or eating a cold can of actual Spam.

 

Let’s give some credit here, cold cans of Spam helped the Allies win World War II. 

[DrBloodmoney]

2 minutes ago, PerryToxteth said:

Let’s give some credit here, cold cans of Spam helped the Allies win World War II. 

 

Hey no shade on Spam - I'll eat some Spam, I ain't too good for it - but I'm from Scotland - we like our Spam deep-fried, in fritter form, and sever with chips!

Edited October 18, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[amurnin100]

1 minute ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Hey no shade on Spam - I'll eat some Spam, I ain't too good for it - but I'm from Scotland - we like our Spam deep-fried, in fritter form, and sever with chips!

Least it’s not tripe….

[MMDE]

10 hours ago, GraniteBeast603 said:

Removed for trolling 

 

 

Many of the paying members have been a paying member since long before the last couple of years.

 

Many of those top players you are talking about don't actually like what has happened. For them this is no longer about playing a lot of games and doing well at them etc, but a continuous pain to always hoard all the latest stacks of some garbage that is released many times a week. Garbage that has barely any effort put into it, often just an asset swap, is a bit faster or something, and just released with tons of stacks. Garbage that is released knowing fully well these players have to get it to keep up. Yeah, both dev/publisher and player knows this, and so that is not fun anymore, but exploitative.

 

For everyone who don't want to touch any of this, they have lost features on the site, and anything of value keeps drowning in garbage. Even the storefront for PSN is drowning, but there you only get some few of the releases, you only see your region, and maybe the game is cross buy. And while that fills up the store front, for each of those items there could be as many as 12 or even more trophy lists that fills up this site.

 

What I suggest has nothing to do with "worthy", "pro gamer", "winner/loser"... maybe it has something to do with "should be", but it's more about fixing what has generally been considered an issue for years, and lately taken completely off with clearly exploitative actors.

 

I don't want to be the arbiter of what is "worthy" or not. I don't want to even be the arbiter of what is a "real game". I just want to count trophies differently on the leaderboard.

 

1. Make high average rarity stacks not count.
2. Treat asset swaps as stacks.
3. Maybe add some extra points to trophies based on rarity.
4. Maybe devalue the platinum (from 300 back to like 180 or 200 or something).

Edited October 19, 2022 by MMDE

[GUDGER666]

I think the best and quickest way would be to just have new leaderboards, keep all the ones available now, fix the rarity one and make a new one that removes all the spam games. I also think a new team for this is required (Spam Removal Team) 

[ZitMeatloaf]

What a pain in the ass these games are. I hate seeing the new game list constantly showing nothing but trophy grab garbage. That list used to be useful for learning about new games or ports which otherwise didn't have much publicity, now that's an extremely rare occurrence for me.

 

Imagine being in the top ≈ 100 or so of the leaderboard trying to maintain or improve your position. At some point in your life you probably started out playing video games because they were fun. Then when achievements were implemented and leaderboards followed, you could improve your standing by playing a lot of really fun games! Now it's gotta be damn near a full time job maintaining accounts in 5 or 6 different regions, purchasing top up cards from third party vendors and applying them to the correct account so you always have funds available in all of them, figuring out which crap game you need to buy next from which account... all for the joy of watching some jumping soylent green and stroking a plankton. What fun.

[Baker]

27 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

For everyone who don't want to touch any of this, they have lost of features on the site, and anything of value keeps drowning in garbage. 

 

This right here is the best thing I’ve read in a while here.

[ScottishNub]

why don't you guys and girls create your own trophy website and only allow people who meet these requirements cause every single day people create the exact same fourm saying the same thing.

[MD_91]

7 hours ago, MMDE said:

 

Hehe, I don't buy a hundred stacks of the same game.

 

Whether you buy these low effort games once or 5 times each, you're still actively part of the problem in funding these devs while also claiming to want to fix the "issue" 

 

Either play these games to climb the leaderboards and be unapologetic about it or don't play them at all

[GraniteBeast603]

My post got deleted?

 

Which sentence did you have a problem with?

Edited October 19, 2022 by Beyondthegrave07
Removed edit, discussed with in PM. Off topic

[MonaSaxPayne]

3 minutes ago, GraniteBeast603 said:

My post got deleted?

 

Which sentence did you have a problem with?

wow.. I saw that. 
 

it’s really sickening when posts with differing opinions get deleted 

 

if u don’t automatically agree with the masses you’re OBVIOUSLY trolling