Is Deathloop worth buying

[PIOTREK27-1982]

We all know Deathloop was part of PS Plus for months but i'm just curious: Do we have gamers on the site who enjoyed Colt story and can recommend it to new players? If yes, why? 

[xIRockyRock]

It depends on what you are looking for. It’s just a solid shooter at best. 
 

At first I was very curious about the „planning your day and kill all bosses in a single day“ mechanic. I really thought you have to cycle day for day to find a good route to eliminate every boss in a single loop and at first it feels like it. But you will quickly realize that the path you will take is predetermined. There is little to no planning required, it’s designed for an casual experience.

 

Also to mention. The game takes place in several set pieces, but as you cycle through your days, you will visit them over and over again. You develop better strategies to reach and kill the boss, but since the enemy Lay-out doesn’t really change, once you figured out a good route, it can get repetitive very fast.

 

If you search for an solid shooter experience you can buy the game. If you search a game for tactical planning your daily cycles and set up different strategies, you can skip it.

 

Story got me hooked in the beginning. Once I figured out there isn’t planning involved at all, I lost interest really fast. Still a good game, but not a must play.

Edited September 8, 2023 by xIRockyRock

[DrBloodmoney]

Yeah - My Review below

(+ my update after the DLC released)

 

 

 

Deathloop

 

Immersive Sims have something of a difficult time on the consumer end, when it comes to selling the tremendous variety of their games, particularly in the age of trophies and in-game achievements. 

While a game like Prey, or Dishonoured, or Deus Ex has a huge amount of variety built in, and myriad method of play and tools available for use at the players disposal, (that is, after all, the hallmark of a good Immersive Sim - one of the rarest, most difficult to craft, yet best genres out there,) the format of the games, and in particular the achievements / trophies, can often run counter to that very experimentation that the genre affords. While the player has scores of possible ways to approach any given scenario, and a plethora of interesting ways to deal with any given enemy or target, the actual loop of the game has a tendency to discourage experimentation, in favour the player 'locking' themselves into one particular path for entire playthroughs. 

 

Trying for a 'clean hands' run in Dishonoured? 
Then you best only use your stealth tactics. Those fun killing abilities are useless for this entire run.

 

Not specced for hacking in this run of Deus Ex? 
Then I guess that air duct is your only option.

 

On a 'No-Powers' run in Prey? 
Then sorry, as fun as it might be to mimic that coffee cup and blast yourself through that hole in the glass - you need to find another way in.

 

It is a problem that is, of course, alleviated over a long enough timescale. While something like Prey may feel like it is limiting itself with these kind of achievements, by the time a player has completed several full runs, and seen the variation of play-style, they can grasp the full spectrum of design, and appreciate the craftsmanship involved in supporting it. However, that is a big ask. Outside of our little circles, it can be east to forget that most players don't play games multiple times - and even for those who so, full 'specific power' playthroughs can still be a burden. In some sense, asking the player to commit to a singular play-style for a full run is jarring - and overtly limiting. 
There are some immersive sims that have managed to get around that - the recent Hitman trilogy, for example (which for some reason does not seem to be commonly categorised as an Immersive Sim, despite quite clearly being just that) - does side-step the issue by having each level be discrete, and never asking the player to complete entire 'runs' of the game a single way; but, for the most part, the genre is addicted to a strange, counter-intuitive practice:
Offer choice via design, then actively discourage it via reward.

 

Deathloop, Arkane's latest creation, seems, in some sense, to be very deliberately crafted to address this problem specifically. 

Deathloop, is, like all recent Arkane games, an Immersive Sim. It is a narrative Immersive Sim, in fact, and borrows liberally from Arkane's previous output. The powers available are, for the most part, directly lifted from Dishonoured, along with a good portion of its aesthetic and its extremely variable gameplay and play-style.  However, unlike any of their other fare, Deathloop's narrative is not linear. 
Nor is its level structure. 
Nor, in fact, is its gameplay loop. 
Were Dishonoured, Dishonoured 2 or Prey's gameplay represented diagrammatically as long, straight lines, Deathloop's would be a small, tight circle. 
If Dishonoured and Prey are point to point rally races, Deathloop is a cyclical Nascar track.

 

In Deathloop, the player takes the role of Cole - a guy full of attitude, one liners, style, booze, and confusion. Waking up on a beach with a hangover and a happy-go-lucky sociopathic killer named Juliana snapping adversarial death threats in his ears, he becomes quickly aware that he has been on the island for a very, very long time... as has everyone else. 
The Island is caught in a time loop, with the day resetting every 24 hours. 
Without getting into to much detail on the plot here (which is wild, interesting, clever and fleshed out enough to support constant discovery and fractured puzzle-solving over the 30-odd hour completion time), let's just cover the basic broad strokes: 
The time loop is tied to 8 targets, known as "Visionaries". In order to break the loop, Cole needs to kill them all, but theres a catch. Well, two catches.

Firstly, he doesn't have time to kill them all in one day, and if he fails, any dead ones will simply revive in the next loop. 
Secondly, Julianna. She, unlike everyone else besides Cole himself, remembers what has gone on in previous loops, and has a hard on the size of Manhattan for two things - killing Cole, and preserving the loop. 

 

Essentially, this is all the setup required to understand the crux of the game. The island has 4 distinct areas - and 4 distinct times of day, equating to 16 different possible 'levels'. Each Visionary has their own set paths ands story throughout the full day, moving them around the island at different times, and the player's job is to poke and prod at the clockwork nature of the world in such a way as to have different combinations of them intersect. Do this in the appropriate ways, and it will allow all eight to be killed in one loop, ending the cycle once and for all.

 

The nature of the game may sound like it lends itself to being something of a rogue-like - and truth be told, I believe there is the germ of rogue-like in here somewhere in the genesis of the design document, however, functionally, it doesn't really operate as one. 
While the loop does restart each day, with the chessboard and all its pieces reset, a huge part of the game actually revolves around Cole adding to his ever-expanding arsenal of powers and weapons. An in-game currency called 'Residuum' allows him to 'infuse' different weapons and powers, essentially making them 'permanent' and allowing him to start a loop with them. 
Each visionary is associated with a specific power and each one can be collected by killing that visionary once. Infuse it, and it is Coles in perpetuity and can then be upgraded by collecting additional items from subsequent kills of the same visionary. This means the early game is less about simple discovery, and more about filling out Coles inventory and methods of attack. 

What the loop mechanic does incredibly well, is alleviate the problem I mentioned before. Because each loop allows for experimentation, and the player knows that it will reset each time, there is no feeling of being 'trapped' in a play-style. Saving within an environment is not possible, and so the tendency to 'save-scum' ones way through a level in order to remain unseen is negated. Conversely though, given that the player knows the loop will reset every 4 levels, they are absolutely free to experiment to their hearts desire, free of consequence. It cures the Immersive Sim of its biggest issue, by removing long-term consequence from the equation.

 

The game may sound, also, like it is overly complex. Truth be told, the narrative is convoluted, and at times hard to grasp the overall machinations of - particularly early on - however, for all its eccentricities, the game does not really force the player to work out the final method of attack by themselves. A fairly well implemented - if a little prescriptive /hand-hold-y -  mission structure is built in, meaning there is always a variety of different objectives available for whatever time of day Cole finds himself in. The player is not required to really have the long-term goals in mind during the early, loop-to-loop machinations. 
Whether that is positive or not will lie in the eye of the beholder - personally, I would have liked to see a little less beat-by-beat prescription in the method (Hitman, for example, allows the 'mission stories' to be simply switched off in the main menu,) - however, the final goal of Deathloop is, frankly, fucking complicated. I very much doubt that I would have been able to solve it without any guidance at all, so really, it comes down to personal preference how much the player feels overly 'hand-held' or not.

 

The game adds one more wrinkle into its already pretty original gameplay structure - in the form of Julianna herself. Unlike other visionaries, Julianna can turn up anywhere - at any time - and armed with whatever powers or weapons she pleases. This can be an irritation at times, it must be said - it can be galling during a particularly good 'quiet' run to suddenly have her turn up and start firing a shotgun and fucking the whole thing up - but it does also add a layer of chaos and randomness to the game that can be genuinely tense and exciting. 
Julianna will sometimes be AI controlled, but often will be controlled by another human player, invading Dark Souls style, to fuck up Cole's day - and those instances can be very fun. Suddenly, a perfectly ordinary run morphs into a sweaty, tense, one-on-one game of cat and mouse, with Cole trapped until he can hack his way back to his tunnels, or take Julianna out. 
Playing as Julianna is fun also - she has access to a lot of weaponry early on that the player has likely not seen in Cole's playthrough yet -, though, much like in Dark Souls - I did feel rather guilty any time I succeeded as Julianna, knowing full well how annoying it could be for me when the shoe was on the other foot!

 

Visually, the game looks great - this is a PS5 exclusive, and it makes good use of that - though artistically it is something of a mishmash. While there is certainly a huge amount of detail and careful work has gone in to showing the different architectures of the island - it is an old, traditional fort and fishing village, used as a bunker and facility during the war, then added to by early scientists studying the time phenomena, and then added to further by the visionaries (and their "Eternalist" acolytes, and each layer is deliberately distinct and jarringly dissimilar. The overall effect is a deliberately confusing, stylistically dissonant environment that contains everything from ancient stone walls to Plastic 60's neon and everything in-between. While this effect is absolutely deliberate, and certainly makes the game stand out visually, I cannot deny that the aesthetically cohesive environments of Dishonoured's Dunwall and Karnaka, or Prey's Talos 1, did offer more appeal. I had more desire to investigate those than Deathloop's environments, in the long run. Deathloop was more visually striking early on, but lost its lustre quicker.

 

In terms of character design, I do think the game suffers a little by comparison to Dishonoured. Both Cole and Julianna are wonderfully designed and rendered (and given fantastic vocal performances and a huge amount of genuinely funny dialogue back-and-forth.) They are the sharpest points of a hugely stylish game, playing n a late 60's/ early 70's Blacksploitation, B-Movie vibe that is unusual for videogames, and executed really well.  However, the rest of the visionaries are less memorable - both than Cole and Julianna, but even than the various targets of Dishonoured or the NPCs of Prey. Despite having more actual dialogue, more variety and richer storylines than most Dishonoured targets, in this case, the loop mechanic of Deathloop becomes a double-edged sword. Because the nature of the world is that it is 'disposable', so too become the characters. Aside from Julianna - who actually remembers your actions - everyone else become much harder to invest in or care about, because they reset each day. The inconsequentiality of the world bleeds into the characters somewhat.

 

The general 'fodder' enemies of Deathloop - the Eternalists - are interesting, and fall somewhere between Bioshock'sSplicers - in this case driven psychopathic by a lack of consequence, rather than mad by ingestion of plasmids - and the droogs from A Clockwork Orange. They are relatively thick by the standards of enemy AI, certainly more so than the Splicers or even the guards and NPCs of Dishonoured or Preywere, however, this does seem to be a conscious decision on the part of Arkane. Were the enemies smarter, it would encourage stealth far more than other play-styles, and this is another area where I believe their core design tenant - encourage experimentation above all else - has been a factor in the design. Because dealing with the enemies is, for the most part, pretty easy, Cole feels overpowered, and it means trying out new, fun ways to dispatch enemies or to side-step them feels fun, rather than desperate.

Overall, Deathloop is a genuinely interesting take on the genre. It is brimming with ideas - overflowing with them at times, to the extent that the early game can feel pretty confusing, as concept after concept is explained on top of one another - but that doesn't change the fact that these ideas are, for the most part, all well thought out and either cool, clever or both.

While I personally do not think it quite matches up to Dishonoured or Prey in terms of design or gameplay, it cannot be ignored how good some of the choices made are in alleviating what are genuine problems with the Immersive Sim genre as a whole. Those 'problems' are not ones I personally take issue with - I love the stress and care required for a full, 'clean hands' playthrough - but I fully accept that where I see a fun challenge, others could see a detrimental burden, and Deathloop alleviates that in a smart, and well thought out way.
 
While I did not find as much to grasp onto in the narrative elements, or in the tertiary characters, I also feel that is inherent to the concept, and that concept is so sound, and so original, that I was willing to overlook that throughout my time with the game. 
I still had a stonking good time with Deathloop - and frankly, measuring up to previous Arkane fare is the highest of high bars.
In my book, saying "Not quite as good as Dishonoured" is hardly a denigration. It still equates to saying "better than a fuck-ton of other games!"
 

(Originally reviewed Here)

 

 

 

 

 

Deathloop - "Golden Loop Update" DLC

 

The first trophy-enabled DLC update for Deathloop is something of a curiosity for me, in that it's the kind of DLC that is fairly common, but generally for more multi-player focussed games.

These kinds rarely grace the single-player arena... and even more rarely  bring new trophies in tow.

Unlike something like the recently reviewed Shadow of RoseDLC for Resident Evil VIII: Village, Deathloop's Golden Looppack is not a sizeable new narrative, or stand-alone content, but rather, a small smattering of little additional elements to the main campaign.

In terms of the added main-game content, there are a quite a few small changes made (some additional Julianna upgrades for example,) and these are simply folded into the main game, without particular fanfare (or trophies to accompany them.)
The more significant additions, however, do have a trophy attached each, and those are probably the most noteworthy.

 

Firstly, there's a new enemy type introduced, and peppered throughout all areas at all times of day - the Paint Bomber - who act like walking alarms / Berserkers, screaming and running at the player when they see them, and exploding. They can be fun, and add a unique danger to some existing areas - as well as a new benefit... taking out a paint-bomber silently lets Colt pick up his unexploded paint-bombs, and chuck them where he sees fit!

 

An additional ability slab that Colt can find - "Fugue", which essentially makes the enemy seem drunk and stoned for a while - is quite fun to use, but not particularly powerful as a viably ability for anything other than goofing around... at least as far as I could tell. Deathloop is, of course, an Arkane game, and Arkane games often have secret, clever ways for powers to be used that are only worked out long after their release, when people tinker with them in the right ways... but for the moment, I don't see Fugue as much of a game-changer, just a fun side addition. 
Where Fugue is found, however, is pretty fun - this is grabbed after taking out a new enemy - the Garbage Collector - and his lair is entirely new, and des have some fun little side-lore hidden within it, which is worth seeing.

 

There's a brand new weapon - the ridiculously overpowered HALPS Prototype to be found - and this, unlike Fugue, is likely to make a new player stumbling across it during their main playthrough have a pretty easy time dealing with crowds!

 

These are the small additions to the game, (and, sadly, probably the only new parts many trophy-thirsty people will see upon returning.)

However, there is one big addition to the game that The Golden Loop DLC adds that doesn't have an associated trophy, but is certainly the most significant in the narrative - the expanded "Break the Loop" ending.

In the original game, the endings were a little oddly weighted, in that the "bad" endings were quite a bit longer, and more fleshed out, than the "Good" ending - the one where Colt breaks the loop. Colt woke up on the beach, the sky was completely fucked up and weird - the world having presumably suffered the effects of centuries of looping time on the island - and Julianna, after sparing him, walked away... then suddenly disappeared.... making use of a "Slab Power"... that she shouldn't have been able to, given that the loop was broken. 

I thought this was a cool, ambiguous ending - hinting that the damage the loop had caused might be irreversible, and the whole world might now be messed up, and the loop powers valid everywhere - not just contained on the island.

 

The extended version essentially sticks to this ambiguity somewhat, but does decide to be more specific in terms of the Visionaries reactions. It takes the form of a 3-4 minute "music video montage" showing some of their reactions upon awaking in their first "real" next day. Obviously, none but Colt and Julianna remember the loop at all, so the reactions are interesting to see - essentially, they are waking, assuming the loop experiment did not work, and they just have a hangover... but then see the calamity on the sky, and react to that. Some with horror, some with confusion... and one - interestingly - with joy.

 

I'm in two minds as to the benefit of the extension really - on the one hand, it's nice to see some closure, but on the other hand, Arkane seem to want to have their cake and eat it too - to retain some ambiguity for stylistic reasons, but give the audience some breadcrumbs to alleviate the (rather irksome) fan reaction to their previous ambiguity.

In some ways, it has the slightly  sour "Mass Effect 3 Ending Debacle" taste to it - fan appeasement at the expense of artistic integrity - and like ME3 did, the new ending tends to open up more questions than it answers, since the developers are clearly loathe to completely capitulate to their whims. It ends up simply moving the points of ambiguity around, and spreading them a little thin. Lots of questions remain curiously unanswered - just as before - but now, rather than having the ending hit like a big punch, that the player can them puzzle over for a long time, wondering about all the individual strands, they get each single point of ambiguity pointed out to them... but still not really answered.

I like ambigous endings. I always have... and Arkane clearly do too. Trying to satiate an audience that doesn't, while still satisfying the primary audience that does is a tricky thing... and while I don't think the Golden Loop update is a resounding failure in that regard, I'm not sure I'd call it a massive success either.

 

What is fun though, is the music - I won't spoil the method, but in the extended ending, the audio is used to make a much more explicit and specific reference to the world of Dishonoured - essentially confirming that Deathloop does - as was always posited - take place in the future of the Dishonoured timeline. 
That is a fun thing, and done pretty well. It is unclear to me whether Arkane means to leave this as mere hint, or plans to do more with it in future DLC (or sequels). Certainly, the Golden Loop DLC changes open up a far more obvious path to future Deathloop DLC actively tying back to the worlds of Corvo, Emily, Billie Lurk... and the Outsider... so that remains to be seen!

Overall, The Golden Loop Update is a bit of a funny one. On the one hand, all the additions, while small individually, are good additions to the game. On the other hand, coming so long after the original release, it can't really be said they add much to a player already finished with the game. 

Yes, it's fun to find the new power and weapon, and playing through the full loop to see the new ending is welcome - after-all, Deathloop is a great game, and replaying it would be fun regardless of new content - but the fact is, when playing the full loop again, the actual nuts and bolts of that playthrough are almost identical to before. It is a great, variable game, but these small additional don't add a huge amount to that variability. 

I think for a new player, having the Golden Loop DLC installed is obviously a benefit - more content is always good - but as a way to draw players back, it offers scant additional incentive, beyond the simple attraction of replaying a good game.

It's a few extra baubles on the Christmas tree, and a shinier (or, at least, different) star at the top... 
...but if it weren't for the trophy list pointing them out, I'm not 100% sure a casual player would even notice what were the new decorations, and which were on the tree last year. 

Originally reviewed Here)

 

[imminent-file5]

21 hours ago, PIOTREK27-1982 said:

We all know Deathloop was part of PS Plus for months but i'm just curious: Do we have gamers on the site who enjoyed Colt story and can recommend it to new players? If yes, why? 

Skip out on this game if you couldn't care less for it's platinum.

It's Arkane Studios failed attempt at making a game innovative but failing at it terribly. 

[PIOTREK27-1982]

1 hour ago, imminent-file5 said:

Skip out on this game if you couldn't care less for it's platinum.

It's Arkane Studios failed attempt at making a game innovative but failing at it terribly. 

I cared about plat first. Now? I could live without it i think, but that doesn't change the fact that i had more fun with DL than with any Sony games in recent years. That's probably because i'm sucker for timelooping settings. Loved Grounhog Day. Loved Steins;Gate. Love this too. I adore people who are just tired with repeating old shit over and over again and wanting to just move on.

 

What was it? Immersive sims? Like the term.

Thanks for your opinions, guys.

Edited September 9, 2023 by PIOTREK27-1982

[Crusad3rp]

As for Arkane games, Deathloop surely is not their best achievement, but still very good game. It's worse than Dishonored 1 and Death of The Outsider, but imo better than Prey (which is still a good game) and Dishonored 2. Not to mention that DL is much, Much better than any game based on open world mechanics with boring and repetetive content. Even new Sony exclusives are on the same boat and each of their new released game becomes less interesting because of that. There are a few exceptions like Returnal or God of War, but mostly it's always the same - copy/paste ;).

[mephisto3dg]

Imo is not worth buying. I´ve played and platinumed the Dishonored trilogy (1st game did on ps3 and 4) and Prey. Easily, Deathloop is the worst.

 

They tried to mix their formula with roguelite elements, i went blind thinking i´d take down the objectives in any order i wanted and finish the game to discover it was nothing like that and you were just handholded with a linear path to follow at the end. Dont want to go too deep describing it to avoid possible spoilers but unless it is on a hug discount, I´ll say its a pass.

Edited September 9, 2023 by mephisto3dg

[ZEE11W]

I actually enjoyed my time going for the platinum and 100% trophies. 
 

[mega-tallica]

It's basically a rogue-lite Dishonored but not nearly ambitious enough to really stand out. I enjoyed it though discovering all the different approaches you can take to each mission but it does naturally become redundant after a certain amount of time. Running through the same 4 maps, that are relatively small, over and over again gets old quickly. 

 

I don't really know why it stood out to me but the gun sound FX are the best in any game I've ever played so there's that. 

[Taliesin_2943]

It's basically a literal fuck around and find out lol you mess around and find out what works and what kills u

[Letenko]

This was the first proper PS5 title I played after buying the console and I'm glad I did. I enjoyed it very much and altough this might seem meaningless, one of my biggest appreciations for this was the fact that there is no hacking minigame.

As a lifelong fan of Fallout, especially the 3D ones, I can survive hacking minigames, but they can break the pacing more foten than not, which is why I was glad you just had to hold down a button here to hack stuff.

To give you an idea of how much I recommend the game, after finishing it, I bought a physical copy so I wouldn't have to rely on PS+ if I ever wanted to play it again.

[MAUSZX]

The game is weird to grade to be honest. It takes some aspects of Dishonored, some of Groundhog day or Edge of tomorrow, and the combat or some mild shooting game, and the combo sounds like the best game ever imo, I was super hyped, is the weirdest immersive sim because at some point of the game you really don't have a lot of options how to make progress.

Personally I liked Dishonored and Deus Ex so much more than this one, I was kind of dissapointed at the beginning while playing, after a while I did end up enjoying it but it might take you some time.

 

Buy it on a deep sale is my take. Game still has some weird bugs, the game crashes or that menu glitch, sometimes enemies end up in the roof out of nowhere. And as a Trophy hunter Clean ish hands can be annoying, I did the requirements 3 times and did not get it until the 4th. There is really no way to know what is working and what isn't.

[ShadyWARcotix]

I think it's hard to tell if you will love or hate DL. I loved dishonored 1 and 2 and only platinumed Prey. Prey is my fav arkane game.

 

I loved the humor and map design of DL and I love time loop stuff but DL is a tough one. I tried it multiple times and I gave up. I don't have the "wow" effect like in the older titles and backtracking the same maps over and over again was boring to me. So I  stopped playing it and moved on. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by ShadyWARcotix

[SectionHUN]

I liked it. It's better than Dishonored at every possible way. The abilities are fun, the maps are gorgeous. It took me some time to get in to this genre, but if you're keep playing and getting the weapons + abilities then the game becomes easier. There are silenced weapons which makes stealth even more fun. You can turn off the online play thing and players won't invade you, but sometimes the AI Julia will. One more thing, the aiming is not that smooth like in cod, apex, bf or doom. But it's better than in Ghostwire Tokyo.

[Virtua_Vince]

On 9/9/2023 at 8:54 PM, mephisto3dg said:

Imo is not worth buying. I´ve played and platinumed the Dishonored trilogy (1st game did on ps3 and 4) and Prey. Easily, Deathloop is the worst.

 

They tried to mix their formula with roguelite elements, i went blind thinking i´d take down the objectives in any order i wanted and finish the game to discover it was nothing like that and you were just handholded with a linear path to follow at the end. Dont want to go too deep describing it to avoid possible spoilers but unless it is on a hug discount, I´ll say its a pass.

Sounds like worth playing before the 'good' Arkane Studios games to me.  And I will, because I haven't done Prey, Dishonored, etc.  Plus it's on a huge discount, win all round. 

[chriee]

I really liked Deathloop, while yes, the Dishonored games are better, it's a fun Dishonoredish game with an interesting gimmick.  Cole is a fun protagonist and the game has a lot of weird stuff about it (in a good way).

 

I can see why people were disappointed in it, but it worked for me.

[Dangisuckatgamin]

I personally didn't care for it but it's also not really my kind of game. I did like certain aspects, the aesthetic is quite nice.  Just not fond of it's style of gameplay is all. I would definitely recommend it if it intrigues YOU, because really that's all that matters. I rarely read reviews now because I just don't care what others think and I'll try it for myself.