Rising Tide trophy thoughts?

[ZenaxPure]

42 minutes ago, Nick240894 said:

The scoring system, for example, is complete ass. The way you have to do as little damage as possible and play as inefficiently as possible to get S ranks is really, really dumb.

They revamped the scoring system before the first dlc came out. From my understanding there is still some cheese, but, saying you have to play like that isn't true anymore. There is a time bonus now in score modes that gives a massive 50% point boost if you clear the stage fast enough to offset just spamming low damage attacks. And of course the technical bonus is self explanatory in how that effects scoring.

 

I've been playing completely normally in Kairos gate, getting the max time modifier for each wave, and I've had no trouble S ranking the circles. Haven't finished a full run yet though since I am more focused on working on S ranks, but, I doubt it changes much in the second half considering after the first few circles you can get all the score bonus modifiers going so long as you don't buy any buffs (which are really not needed since enemies die too fast as is in this game.)

 

Anyway in general hard disagree about this mode being bad, it's ridiculously fun so far. Prefer it over arcade mode just cause I hate all the walking sections and stuff, I just want to fight enemies and this cuts out that stuff.

[ShariusTC]

4 hours ago, Mr-Greneda said:

Is the Kairo Gate harder in FF Difficult? I have a old save where i play the game in Story Mode.

 

unless you care about score which doesn't require for trophy, i barely get any trouble just clearing it even on FF mode, clearing give ou reward, score is for leaderboard

Edited April 19 by ShariusTC

[Nick240894]

5 hours ago, ZenaxPure said:

They revamped the scoring system before the first dlc came out. From my understanding there is still some cheese, but, saying you have to play like that isn't true anymore. There is a time bonus now in score modes that gives a massive 50% point boost if you clear the stage fast enough to offset just spamming low damage attacks. And of course the technical bonus is self explanatory in how that effects scoring.

 

I've been playing completely normally in Kairos gate, getting the max time modifier for each wave, and I've had no trouble S ranking the circles. Haven't finished a full run yet though since I am more focused on working on S ranks, but, I doubt it changes much in the second half considering after the first few circles you can get all the score bonus modifiers going so long as you don't buy any buffs (which are really not needed since enemies die too fast as is in this game.)

 

Anyway in general hard disagree about this mode being bad, it's ridiculously fun so far. Prefer it over arcade mode just cause I hate all the walking sections and stuff, I just want to fight enemies and this cuts out that stuff.

 

I know they revamped it, but it still isn't what I would want it to be, personally. You still do have to focus on minimizing damage. I've had runs where I literally took no damage, completed the stage within the fastest time for the tier III score bonus, with a technical bonus of 3, and still didn't get S rank. Know why? Just because I killed the enemies in too few hits.

 

That's the reality of the scoring system. More hits means more points, which means you want each hit to be relatively weak. Now if you're somehow consistently getting S ranks with "no trouble" and by playing completely normally, then you are not only a much better player than I am, but probably one of the best FF16 players in the world.

 

Because I watched a video of a run where a guy cleared every stage with S rank, on Final Fantasy mode, got a total score of 139 million, made it to top 5 on the leaderboard, and he absolutely needed to take his time as much as possible to get in as many hits as possible. You can watch his run here :

 

I also spoke with him a bit on GameFAQs and he and other high level players mostly agree that you need to avoid doing too much damage too quickly if you want S rank.

 

So if you've cracked the code to S rank with completely normal play, then you are indeed amazing, but I'm not.

 

Anyway, I beat it on Final Fantasy mode a couple hours ago and got my trophy, which is what I cared about. Only ended up getting 3 S ranks, the rest were mostly As, but I'm fine with it, the secret boss doesn't seem worth the effort it would take me.

 

As for this mode being more fun than Arcade mode, I think I would probably agree with that, but that's not saying much because I don't think very highly of Arcade mode either. I just don't really vibe with how they've designed these endgame modes. Arcade mode, final chronolith trials, Kairos Gate, etc..., they're all just not fun to me. The scoring system just isn't for me.

 

I wish there was a mode where we could just replay boss fights (and maybe some of the marks from the hunts) and that's it, with a scoring system based purely on time and combo complexity. But alas, it was not to be.

Edited April 20 by Nick240894

[Spike_Hostile17]

16 hours ago, Nick240894 said:

 

Oh yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. GoW Valhalla absolutely puts this mode to shame.

 

Not even close. I'm really not a fan of any of the endgame content in 16 (arcade mode, final chronolith trials, Kairos Gate, etc...). These devs really don't know how to design fun modes imo. The scoring system, for example, is complete ass. The way you have to do as little damage as possible and play as inefficiently as possible to get S ranks is really, really dumb.

Yes, there are too many flaws.

- like someone asked above, you have to do the 20 layers in 1 sitting ..... in 2024, a 1h-1h30 arena mode where you can't leave .... can't go back to solo, can't play another game, you have to put the ps5 in rest mode to take a break. Ridiculous.

- Unlike most of rogue-like modes, you get nothing for clearing layers. Usually the further you go or at least the more you play, the easier it gets because you unlock permanent perks. Even the shitty Ragnarok DLC from AC Valhalla knew this. But no, they decided to make it boring like Valkyrie Elyseum DLC ....

- You can't pick the difficuly, so if you have been playing in FF mode since DLC 1 (for the trophies), you are locked in FF mode. The only option would be to have a save in Normal mode and to go through Rising Tide again just for the Kairos gate. Assuming players still have that save, they may not even have all the Eikon's abilities unlocked .... All they had to do was let people pick the difficulty of the Kairos gate and/or set the trophy as "Clear the Kairos gate in FF mode" ....

 

If it wasn't for Tales of Arise's overpriced and useless Season Pass, I would say this DLC takes the cake for the worst DLC I bought over the last 12 months. 19.99 euros for a (nice) small village, 10 side quests and the dummest mode possible.

[Growllanser]

I finished getting all of the trophies last night.  I'm hoping that this is the last DLC for this game. While it was more interesting than Echoes of the Fallen, it was more of the same stuff that the game has become infamous for. New Eikon skills and abilities were appreciated, and the story about Leviathan was done very well. Mysidia was absolutely gorgeous and the new tracks hit. Sadly, the second group of abilities you get are too little, too late because by the time you get them, the entire game will have already be completed by people like myself that started the game on day one.

 

Ultimately, there was nothing transformative about this DLC. Once again, most of the time is spent in combat fighting enemies with inflated HP. The party AI seemed a bit more helpful this time around but it's really hard to say since Clive is constantly having to dodge and counter, giving little time to see what's going on around him. And then, there's the final battle against Leviathan. Eikon battles were already problematic, but this one just amplified it turning FFXVI into a full-on third-person shooter. Even if you disregard the time limit midway through the fight, all of the nonsense and cinematography going on turned the game into a button mashing snooze fest.

 

The Kairos Gate trophy was just stupid. I've always loathed these gauntlet style challenges (Seraphic Gate in Valkyrie Elysium, MOM in Guilty Gear, Survival mode in Samurai Shodown, etc.) where one slip up means starting the entire goddamn thing over. And the worst thing is you can't use any of your new gear; you're stuck with a static set of equipment and have to "buy" enhancements. When I got to the 15th circle and strayed too close to Titan's "Instant Game Over" attack, I had to start over. By that point, I said screw it, turned on the timely bonuses, and just C-ranked my through the thing because I only cared about the trophy. Conversely, the Leviathan trial was a lot of fun. Short but sweet. Maxing out Leviathan and Ultima abilities was no problem. Finishing 10 side-quests in Mysidia was no problem. The rest of them were story related.

Edited April 20 by Growllanser

[M-3llo-W]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:56 PM, Nick240894 said:

The hardest part of the Leviathan fight, by far, is the DPS check when he has his purple shield.

 

Dodging won't help you break it in time. Need enough damage for that.

Yes, of course, everything is harder in FF mode.

 

I mean, the game overall is still pretty easy, but in FF mode you will definitely take more damage, and enemies have more HP.

 

 

Well ive done it in lvl 85 in FF mode, No Challenge at all with the ring , DPS Check is doable too, Just fire the beam directly at the begining before gliding to the bubble and let both skills stay in cooldown all the time.

 

No Problem. Nothing hard.

 

Its Just an easy way for the trophy. Not talking about it beeing good or how you should Play the Game , i know using the ring is lame, but it works and the whole Game is  easy with that on FF mode.

 

And of course it does Help doing damage, you dont get Hit means more time to Attack....

Edited April 20 by M-3llo-W

[Valkyre4]

Hi guys. 
 

could someone please give me the absolute easiest way i can complete Kairos Gate and get the trophy? I do not care about scoring any points, i do not care about leaderboards or S ranks or getting the secret boss fight etc.

 

I am 44 years old i dont have time to waste in such things…I just want the easiest, safest way possible. I have completed the dlc on FF mode but I am willing to rush through the dlc in easy/story difficulty mode (i have separate save file from my original playthrough) if that means that Kairos Gate is going to be piss easy in this difficulty. I just dont want to waste my time in such 1+ hour survival slogfests where dying means you have to restart from the beginning.

 

Many thanks for your help and understanding! 

Edited April 21 by Valkyre4

[BlackTorito]

46 minutes ago, Valkyre4 said:

Hi guys. 
 

could someone please give me the absolute easiest way i can complete Kairos Gate and get the trophy? I do not care about scoring any points, i do not care about leaderboards or S ranks or getting the secret boss fight etc.

 

I am 44 years old i dont have time to waste in such things…I just want the easiest, safest way possible. I have completed the dlc on FF mode but I am willing to rush through the dlc in easy/story difficulty mode (i have separate save file from my original playthrough) if that means that Kairos Gate is going to be piss easy in this difficulty. I just dont want to waste my time in such 1+ hour survival slogfests where dying means you have to restart from the beginning.

 

Many thanks for your help and understanding! 

 

 

[Valkyre4]

19 minutes ago, BlackTorito said:

 

 

Many thanks and i will definitely take your guide into consideration. But is Kairos Gate difficulty affected by what you have selected?

 

specifically if i replay DLC on story mode and reach Kairos Gate would that make it easier/faster to conplete?

 

Like I said i dont care at all about scores and leaderboards. 

[sephiroth4424]

23 minutes ago, Valkyre4 said:

specifically if i replay DLC on story mode and reach Kairos Gate would that make it easier/faster to conplete?

I don't think you can lower difficulty on your FF mode save.

And since the dlc is accessible right before the final boss, you must either replay entire game on story mode or have a save before the final boss on your first playthrough.

But then your level should be low. I wonder if that makes the Leviathan fight possible to finish. At level 86 on FF mode i barely passed the dps check phase, at countdown 1

[Valkyre4]

7 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

I don't think you can lower difficulty on your FF mode save.

And since the dlc is accessible right before the final boss, you must either replay entire game on story mode or have a save before the final boss on your first playthrough.

But then your level should be low. I wonder if that makes the Leviathan fight possible to finish. At level 86 on FF mode i barely passed the dps check phase, at countdown 1

Yes i do have a save of my first playthrough. That is the point. I can restart the dlc in story mode which will make everything piss easy and a matter of a couple of hours to reach Kairos Gate. The question is does story mode difficulty apply to Kairos Gate? If it does then i am set.

[ThiophenSJ]

12 minutes ago, Valkyre4 said:

Yes i do have a save of my first playthrough. That is the point. I can restart the dlc in story mode which will make everything piss easy and a matter of a couple of hours to reach Kairos Gate. The question is does story mode difficulty apply to Kairos Gate? If it does then i am set.

 

I feel the same as you and would absolutely go through both DLCs again to make Kairos easier. Hope someone has an answer to this.

[sephiroth4424]

24 minutes ago, Valkyre4 said:

Yes i do have a save of my first playthrough. That is the point. I can restart the dlc in story mode which will make everything piss easy and a matter of a couple of hours to reach Kairos Gate. The question is does story mode difficulty apply to Kairos Gate? If it does then i am set.

I also have one in action focus but i'm level 49, weapon attack power at 375. It seems really low

[Valkyre4]

16 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

I also have one in action focus but i'm level 49, weapon attack power at 375. It seems really low

I don’t think your attack power will mean anything in story mode. It will be super easy. That’s the point of story mode that everything is as easy as it gets. The question is is Cairo’s gate applicable to story mode difficulty?

Edited April 21 by Valkyre4

[BlackTorito]

2 hours ago, Valkyre4 said:

Many thanks and i will definitely take your guide into consideration. But is Kairos Gate difficulty affected by what you have selected?

 

specifically if i replay DLC on story mode and reach Kairos Gate would that make it easier/faster to conplete?

 

Like I said i dont care at all about scores and leaderboards. 

Kairos Gate is locked in Action Mode so I guess is not worth it to get back to Easy, you should try a few runs and if its really hard then try on Action, but we are still not sure if the difficulty changes.

[Azure Kite]

Just booted this up to play the new dlc. 

For some reason none of my saves were there.

Only a save with 23 hours on it at level 19.

 

Which is weird since I have 125+ hours on this game. 

Went to go check my cloud save and the stupid thing auto syncs the second I close the game. 

So now I'm stuck with this stupid useless save. 

I really wish Sony would let us backup ps5 saves on to usb. 

 

Fml. 

 

Anyone able to tell me how much work I'm going to need to put in to get all the dlc trophies? 

Am I going to need to beat the game and play all the way through Final Fantasy mode again? 

I shudder at the thought of grinding ability points again. 

 

Genuinely makes me not want to play the game at all anymore. 

[Gummibug]

14 hours ago, M-3llo-W said:

 

 

Well ive done it in lvl 85 in FF mode, No Challenge at all with the ring , DPS Check is doable too, Just fire the beam directly at the begining before gliding to the bubble and let both skills stay in cooldown all the time

 

No Problem. Nothing hard.

 

Its Just an easy way for the trophy. Not talking about it beeing good or how you should Play the Game , i know using the ring is lame, but it works and the whole Game is  easy with that on FF mode.

 

And of course it does Help doing damage, you dont get Hit means more time to Attack....

 

Cooldown is too slow I can't let off the 3rd beam as the cooldown reaches 9 o clock by the time the countdown reaches 2

 

Didn't like this machanic in other Boss fights or the 'no entry' sign on the healthbar when you are just about to kill them 

 

Remake did the no entry sign as well - it's stupid 

 

 

Edited April 21 by Gummibug

[sephiroth4424]

34 minutes ago, Gummibug said:

 

Cooldown is too slow I can't let off the 3rd beam as the cooldown reaches 9 o clock by the time the countdown reaches 2

 

Didn't like this machanic in other Boss fights or the 'no entry' sign on the healthbar when you are just about to kill them 

 

Remake did the no entry sign as well - it's stupid 

 

 

I was able to break the bubble with a third beam right when countown was at 1. As soon as the phase starts, use the first beam, while you are away from the bubble.

With brimstone you need to hold and release when it is in the red part (before it goes to yellow)

Also avoid getting hit, use circle to glide right back to the bubble when Leviathan pushes you away.

And use the combo square+square+square+square+triangle for more damage. Ifrit does an animation at the end of this combo, i forget the name

[Gummibug]

17 minutes ago, sephiroth4424 said:

I was able to break the bubble with a third beam right when countown was at 1. As soon as the phase starts, use the first beam, while you are away from the bubble.

With brimstone you need to hold and release when it is in the red part (before it goes to yellow)

Also avoid getting hit, use circle to glide right back to the bubble when Leviathan pushes you away.

And use the combo square+square+square+square+triangle for more damage. Ifrit does an animation at the end of this combo, i forget the name

I beat it in the end. I did not enjoy this fight 

 

I didn't struggle with Omega or Ultima on FF mode but Leviathan was just extremely unbalanced and gimmicky (and that was just on Normal difficulty)

[Valkyre4]

I agree that Leviathan fight could have been a joy to experience and yet all those unnecessary gameplay gimmicks truly ruin it. The pacing is all over the place on this one and that shield phase thing was completely unnecessary as a “challenge. Generally speaking when you design a specific gameplay section of your game that demands you to play in a very specific way in order to advance, then this has almost nothing to do with skill. Its all about trial and error until you find the proper sequence of actions you need to take in order to advance.

 

this is poor design in my opinion. The other boss fights of FFXVI werent like this,  not even in FF mode. Most of them offered you the chance to do things your way for the most part (excluding ofc the QTEs).

 

Im short, Leviathan fight was a missed opportunity in my book, but i enjoyed the DLC overall and i simply love this game too much.

[Xylobe]

7 hours ago, Valkyre4 said:

specifically if i replay DLC on story mode and reach Kairos Gate would that make it easier/faster to conplete?

 

Like I said i dont care at all about scores and leaderboards.

 

6 hours ago, ThiophenSJ said:

I feel the same as you and would absolutely go through both DLCs again to make Kairos easier. Hope someone has an answer to this.

 

You can purchase the auto-dodge effect before you fight a single enemy, which would make you practically unkillable even on FF mode. Replaying the DLCs would be a waste of time unless you really don't want to use the timely buffs.

[Valkyre4]

An update on Kairos gate. People were absolutely right when they commented that by equipping timely evasion boons makes this challenge a joke even on FF mode. 
 

all you need is 1 hour or so of free time. Do not worry about the difficulty guys if you just want the trophy.

[ZenaxPure]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:55 PM, Nick240894 said:

So if you've cracked the code to S rank with completely normal play, then you are indeed amazing, but I'm not.

It's worth mentioning that leaderboard stuff vs. just S ranks are 2 different things. You're going to have to go for an extreme min/max method if you want to squeeze out every little point to make it to the top of the leaderboard, but, I didn't mention anything about the leaderboard (as I have no interest in it) - just strictly getting S ranks. This is my first clear, just playing the game normally:

 

 

Bosses were a problem for me because I had not fought any of them since the game came out, didn't remember any of their attacks really so I was mostly winging it. But every normal circle with the exception of 4 (which I just completely messed up my combos on) was S ranked there just focusing on doing normal action game combo stuff. There is no cracking the code really, you just need to focus on "technical" combos as the game uses for terminology. Making use of all of the games animation cancel tech (Stomp, Limit Break cancel, Rift Slip) and using those to string together really long actions. You should be at the 3x modifier at pretty much all times, especially with the buffs in this mode.

 

Also I guess just for clarity too my loadout was: Phoenix (Dominion) (Wicked Wheel), Ultima (Raging Fists) (Will o Wykes), Odin (Rift Slip) (Heaven's Cloud.) I used to use Shiva in my second slot but Ultima just gives you more air options which I prefer since air combos > ground combos. Also you get a sweet lazer beam counter attack which is awesome.

 

Lastly I just want to point out the guy you linked the video from (who I watch from time to time since he does cool combos way better than I could ever do) literally has a video called "S ranking a leg in Arcade without slow/stall farming tactics" lol. It's not really a crazy concept, but, like I said I was not talking about leaderboards at all, never mentioned them. I am just saying you can fully S rank levels in this game now playing it like a normal character action game which is all I care about personally.

[Nick240894]

3 hours ago, ZenaxPure said:

It's worth mentioning that leaderboard stuff vs. just S ranks are 2 different things. You're going to have to go for an extreme min/max method if you want to squeeze out every little point to make it to the top of the leaderboard, but, I didn't mention anything about the leaderboard (as I have no interest in it) - just strictly getting S ranks. This is my first clear, just playing the game normally:

 

 

Bosses were a problem for me because I had not fought any of them since the game came out, didn't remember any of their attacks really so I was mostly winging it. But every normal circle with the exception of 4 (which I just completely messed up my combos on) was S ranked there just focusing on doing normal action game combo stuff. There is no cracking the code really, you just need to focus on "technical" combos as the game uses for terminology. Making use of all of the games animation cancel tech (Stomp, Limit Break cancel, Rift Slip) and using those to string together really long actions. You should be at the 3x modifier at pretty much all times, especially with the buffs in this mode.

 

Also I guess just for clarity too my loadout was: Phoenix (Dominion) (Wicked Wheel), Ultima (Raging Fists) (Will o Wykes), Odin (Rift Slip) (Heaven's Cloud.) I used to use Shiva in my second slot but Ultima just gives you more air options which I prefer since air combos > ground combos. Also you get a sweet lazer beam counter attack which is awesome.

 

Lastly I just want to point out the guy you linked the video from (who I watch from time to time since he does cool combos way better than I could ever do) literally has a video called "S ranking a leg in Arcade without slow/stall farming tactics" lol. It's not really a crazy concept, but, like I said I was not talking about leaderboards at all, never mentioned them. I am just saying you can fully S rank levels in this game now playing it like a normal character action game which is all I care about personally.

 

I only mentioned leaderboards in passing. The bulk of my comment was about simply getting S ranks, like you.

 

And I stand by what I said. If you are getting S ranks with normal play, then you are a very highly skilled player. I would not be able to get S with my normal play, and I doubt many people would.

 

And I know about the technical bonus, as I mentioned in my previous comment. I have had many, many stages where I had the 3x modifier throughout, finished with the tier 3 time bonus, and still only got A (or sometimes even B). And it was simply because I was clearing stages in too few hits. That's just the reality of the scoring system, you need to hit the enemies enough times to actually get the requisite points. If you don't, then no amount of skillful play will get you an S.

 

I think the reason why we don't see eye to eye on this is simply because we have very different play styles and therefore a different perspective on what constitutes "normal play".

 

My normal play, just when I was going through the game, was focused on staggering enemies very quickly and dealing very high damage in bursts. So I would never normally use stuff like Wicked Wheel or Will o' the Wykes for example.

 

In fact I didn't touch Will o' the Wykes a single time in the entirety of my playthrough until the Kairos Gate. Just something as small as that makes a huge difference in scoring because of all the additional hits you get from Wykes.

 

My normal play style would never score as many points because it's focused on nuking enemies. You can't realistically be getting S ranks consistently when you nuke enemies, and that's my point.

 

Your build is already more likely to be getting in a higher number of hits than my usual build would, which is probably why you feel like "normal" play works fine. But for me, and many others, normal play does not work fine at all, and getting S ranks requires removing our usual abilities in favor of weaker ones that hit many times, and that, to me, is not a fun scoring system.

[ZenaxPure]

56 minutes ago, Nick240894 said:

In fact I didn't touch Will o' the Wykes a single time in the entirety of my playthrough until the Kairos Gate. Just something as small as that makes a huge difference in scoring because of all the additional hits you get from Wykes.

Yeah I am fully aware wykes is one of the better scoring abilities people like to take advantage of, personally though I just get it because I like playing hyper aggressively and it gives me wiggle room to actually try for parries or other high risk actions. It's the best defense skill in the game. Wicked wheel on the other hand is absolutely terrible for score though, I just like having another launcher option (since like I mentioned I prefer focusing on air combos when I can.) Actually if you look at it everything else in my kit is bad for score too actually lol and wykes is not going to carry you alone since keep in mind like I said - I was aiming for the level 3 time bonus on each wave, though a few times I missed it.

 

That's really all I was getting at, I think you're putting too much emphasis on wykes honestly. When I say normal play I mean what I said before, making use of all the game's tech/mechanics to do long combos. That does naturally lead to a lot of "hits" though, so you aren't wrong in that sense. Lots of no damage spammable skills in the game still give score, like stomp, precision sic, and rift slip. But all of those are just super important for combo extension.

 

That said I don't really disagree with you in the sense of what we consider normal play. Most action games, not just FF16, punish your score for just nuking enemies. From high profile stuff like DMC down to even more niche stuff like Lollipop Chainsaw, Valkyrie Elysium, etc. I consider understanding how to balance damage vs. score gain to be a core part of the genre. And I am not really trying to even say the FF16 system is perfect either (was my least favorite part about the game at launch and could still use some changes - I'd say completely reverse the time thing where if you don't get a bonus it lowers score which is pretty common in a lot of action games), but, I mean I posted my proof lol. I have a "bad" scoring build aside from 1 ability and had no trouble getting the S ranks by just focusing on combos and getting the 50% time boost. It's doable and very fun.