The WWE Discussion Thread

[itachi-destroyer]

Thank you NXT for reminding me why I love wrestling. I'm not going to bother to point the highs of Takeover XXV since it was excellent from start to finish. If you want to know why we should be excited about WWE's future (when Vince retires/dies) do yourself a favour and watch the show. 

 

As long as WWE's golden brand will be that good, all egomaniac wrestling won't be the best alternative to WWE's main roster. 

NXT : THEN

          NOW

          FOREVER

Edited June 2, 2019 by itachi-destroyer

[skidmarkgn]

22 hours ago, AK-1138 said:

NXT TakeOver. The commentary put it over as "the one true alternative in sports entertainment", and that's not just a snide shot at Cody and Friends... that's undisputed.

 

 

I love NXT as much as anyone but there's one issue I take with the "one true alternative" comment they made.  In order to watch it you have to be a subscriber to their streaming service.  To me, an alternative is something that exists in order to breed competition, when you're watching NXT you're just feeding the monster.  Granted, you're actually getting rewarded instead of punished but none-the-less, when you subscribe, WWE wins.  So what they're really saying (at least to me) is "we know our our mainstream product is unbearable, but instead of us trying to fix it you can just pay more money to watch this instead".  That comment means everyone should be basically rewarding Vince for his incompetence.

[GoodbyeBread]

I am very baffled by this...

 

Report Claims Saudi Government Told WWE To Remove Sami Zayn From Super ShowDown Due To His Ethnicity

[Dr_Mayus]

7 hours ago, GoodbyeBread said:

I am very baffled by this...

 

Report Claims Saudi Government Told WWE To Remove Sami Zayn From Super ShowDown Due To His Ethnicity

Yeah they did it the last time as well. It is also why Kevin Owen isn't going either (in support of his friend) and Daniel Bryan is just refusing to go because fuck Saudi Arabia. Also supposedly Ricochet  can't go because of some of his tattoos. 

 

Also I like how everyone got made at Saudi Arabia for the murder of the journalist...but this has always been a brutal and shitty country...but they have lots of oil and are friendly with the right governments so they are "good guys".

 

 

[skidmarkgn]

Heard the Super Showdown being (self)advertised as a "Wrestlemania equivalent PPV" during RAW last night (I broke and watched because I heard rumors Riddle might debut) so lets see... ... a 52 year old Goldberg vs. a 54 year old Undertaker ... ... a meaningless battle royal no one cares about... at all ... ... HHH vs. Randy Orton because reasons, but hey, at least neither guy is 50+ years old... a Universal title match that has diverted the focus to a guy who's currently not in the match, or is he?  Did he officially declare last night or are they just making him talk to try and snare a couple more viewers?  A McMahon vs. Reigns... Braun in a throwaway match... ...so far, yeah, sounds about right.  Oh wait, Wrestlemania has women's matches too.  

 

Yeah, f--k the Super Showdown.

 

 

[skidmarkgn]

Also, forgot to ask after Smackdown finished... what the f--k are they doing with Alexa Bliss' character?  On RAW she's doing a borderline face turn (at least that's what it looks like), then on Smackdown, a whole one day later,  she's a full-on despicable heel?

[MySenkai]

1 hour ago, skidmarkgn said:

Also, forgot to ask after Smackdown finished... what the f--k are they doing with Alexa Bliss' character?  On RAW she's doing a borderline face turn (at least that's what it looks like), then on Smackdown, a whole one day later,  she's a full-on despicable heel?

Honestly... Vince's whims. Everything's just random nowadays. He'll probably have Brock cash in on Bailey to become the IC champ somehow as chaotic and unfocused it's all become.

 

I mean Alexa was using Nikki, Nikki is normal now, Vince is stealing Smackdown talent for Raw and filling SD with those awful RAW plots. Just no focus.

 

The biggest dumpster fire is the 24/7 title (only four wrestlers can pull it off: Joe (who'd hunt down and destroy anyone who takes it from him), Braun (having people sneak victories from him because they're afraid to fight him),  R-Truth (because he can keep it fun), and Rusev (because he can do all those thing... But WWE will never use him). R-Truth's keeping it fun right now, but he the only thing making it work. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by MySenkai

[MySenkai]

Super Showdown predictions (aka "Let's make this fun ourselves...)

 

Usos vs Revival: The Revival with help from Shane and Drew (setup something for later)

 

Lars vs Lucha: Lars

 

Braun vs Lashley: Braun

 

50 man Battle Royal: the Miz, who afterwards challenges Shane to meet him in the next Best in the World Tournament.

 

Roman vs Shane: Roman: Shane comes down with Drew. After Shane loses, he blames Drew. Drew attacks him (like he did Dolph). The revival come out, but opt to help Drew give Shane a massive beatdown. After they leave, out comes Miz to mock Shane.

 

Interlude: Backstage Joe chokes out Rey again and challenges Dominic at Stomping Grounds to avenge his daddy.

 

Orton vs HHH: After winning, Randy punts Hunter and becomes the Legend Killer again.

 

IC champ: Demon Finn vs Andrade: Demon Finn

 

WWE Title: Kofi vs Dolph: Dolph Ziggler

Near the end of the match, Brock attacks and destroy Kofi. He then cashes in and makes it a triple threat. Brock F5s Kofi, but Dolph rushes in, tosses Brock out, pins Kofi, and runs off with the belt, leaving Brock in the ring screaming "It should've been me!!!" 

 

Universal Title - Seth vs Corbin: Baron Corbin.

After a cheap prematch assault with Lashley's help, Corbin wears down Seth and beats him. THEN Brock comes back and destroy Seth. THEN Heyman reveals the ref never restarted the match before Dolph stole the title from Kofi. Brock cashes in and obliterates Corbin.

New Universal champion: Lesnar (then Drew/Revival comes out and chases him off then destroys Rollin and Corbin again) setting up Corbin v Rollins v Lesnar v Drew at Summerslam

 

Undertaker vs Goldberg: after 2mins the match limps to an end when ORTON RETURNS!!! 2 quick RKOs and then the Legend Killer punts both, setting up the fall Saudi event fatal four way: RKO vs HHH vs Goldberg vs Taker.... In a cell. (Taker)

Edited June 7, 2019 by MySenkai

[AK-1138]

Jesus blood-lactating Christ. Now, I long since decided to forego the Saudi show (partly for ethical and political reason; partly because they never seem to evolve past televised house shows; partly because, well, card's pretty crap, mate) so I've fuck-all to say about the rest of the show but I couldn't help myself from catching the main event for nostalgia's sake. Dear lord, do I ever regret it.

 

I can't recall the last time I had to take a deep breath before every spot in a spot. This was just painful on a profound existential plane... it's beyond words. They just looked like old men ready to collapse at any time. If neither man walked away without some form of long-time damage it'll be a miracle.

 

I don't think I can genuinely enjoy an Undertaker match anymore. Taker just needs to give it up. Even sitting on his endless mountains of blood money, McMahon is still too much of a petty control freak to let Taker earn a living from conventions and the like instead of gambling with what little remains of his health time and time again. It just goes to show that no matter much dedication or how much work you put in, McMahon will toss you away the minute you become an inconvenience.

 

Profoundly depressing, this entire thing.

[Jesaya815]

WWE is slowly but surely digging his own grave and it seems to me that they won't stop anytime soon. Super Letdown was a disaster. An absolute trainwreck.

 

The Usos and The Revival could easily have 5-star matches, yet their Kickoff fight was mediocre at best. Like WWE put them in straitjackets or something.

 

No cash in, after Lesnar was basically forced to do so by Stephanie a week ago. He didn't do it on RAW, for whatever reason. Then Super Showdown happened, and again nothing. Seth is still the champ, Kofi is still the champ. This is getting old pretty fast.

 

Balor and Andrade with an excellent match. Here's hoping that Almas can beat Finn in two weeks, but the way Vince books Smackdown these days, they will probably not even be on the card for Stomping Grounds.

 

Shane is still the Best in the World! Roman fell victim to Shane-O-Mania as well! Now, this wouldn't be bad, if Reigns wouldn't face McIntyre in two weeks, which means Drew is going to lose, because we all know that The Big Dawg needs to get his revenge.

 

Lars Sullivan (hey, he still has his full name. That's a start, right?) with a DQ victory. A monster, a freak, couldn't get a clean win over three cruiserweights.

 

Randy Orton vs Triple H was good. Both are still awesome, so it was cool to see them go at it one more time for old times' sake.

 

50-Man Battle Royal - terrible Battle Royal. Titus eliminated the War Raiders, only to get eliminated by Shelton Benjamin, who botched every move. The Revival eliminated The Usos and were eliminated a few seconds later by Matt freaking Hardy, before Cesaro threw Hardy out of the ring. These are just some of the spots I remember off the top of my head. Where is Pat Patterson, when you need him? And in the end, a hometown hero makes history. Good for Mansoor, I guess.

 

I didn't expect much from The Undertaker or Bill Goldberg. As a matter of fact, I never liked Goldberg very much. Back in the day, his wrestling skills were limited. I'm sure Bret would agree with me. Two years ago, those skills already were non-existent. Yesterday? Oh boy…

 

Goldberg busted himself open during his entrance, yet again, because he just had to bang his head on the door. Then he busted himself open even more on the turnbuckle and almost bled like Dustin Rhodes did at Double or Nothing. Apparently, he suffered a concussion, but they just kept going and it got worse. The Undertaker with possibly the worst Tombstone in history, since he dropped Bill right on his head.

 

And later on, Bill returned the favor, when he dropped Calaway on his head and neck area, in an attempt to deliver a Jackhammer. Looked more like a failed Hip toss into a DDT to be honest. As that wasn't enough, Goldberg even went for a Tombstone, though he stumbled backwards. Thankfully, Taker finally had enough of this crap and ended the match quickly afterwards.

 

It's a miracle, that neither of them is sitting in a wheelchair right now. It looked like they were trying to kill each other. I get it, the Saudis paid good money to see these two veterans. But is this shit necessary? Was the money really worth it? I don't think so.

 

[itachi-destroyer]

I loved Randy Orton vs Triple H. An awesome slow paced match like we don't see anymore. Everyone can say that The Shield is the best faction of all time but the fact is no member of The Shield will ever be as good as Ric Flair, Triple H, Randy Orton or Batista. There will never be a faction as good as Evolution and with as much star power.

 

Concerning the rest of the show it was just like WWE promised, a show as good as Wrestlemania... Which means, a mediocre show with a lot of lows. I must admit I had a good laugh during the main event though ?

Edited June 8, 2019 by itachi-destroyer

[skidmarkgn]

Stomping ground is in the Tacoma Dome (if anyone's wondering, the Tacoma Dome's an absolute shit-hole), which is about 40-ish minutes from the town I live in.  When my wife asked me if I wanted to go when it was announced, all I could do was laugh... so far, I don't regret that decision at all.

[Maxximum]

What a mess of what was exactly WrestleMania 35's stage appearance. 

 

Only match I enjoyed was Randy Orton vs Triple H. It was amazing as the good old times, pretty well made. Hope we can see similar matches in the future.

 

Biggest pop of the night going to NXT and Saudi's own Mansoor. Same thing when Aussie's Buddy Murphy won the Cruiserweight title at SSD last year. He's even yet to have a proper debut on SmackDown. 

 

Worst main event ever, but I don't blame them. So many botches I couldn't even stop laughing. The two looked like they were about to murder each other in the ring, both landing on their heads, botch after botch. I can't believe Vince still believes this can work. No wonder why he missed his first WrestleMania in 28 years. The Deadman can't deliver a great match anymore in what was supposed to be his "passed on yard." 

 

Stomping Grounds already carded up. I thought it was just some house show PPV, but it seems like it is the big one for June, then Extreme Rules next month. I don't really know what to expect from it. I don't think Brock will cash in, but if he does, it will be on Kofi... steel cage for that matter. I was left clueless about Alexa Bliss on her actions during RAW and SmackDown. They're probably gonna give her the title since Bayley always loses to Bliss, but I doubt it and hopefully they bring in Ember Moon, Liv Morgan, Carmella and others in the title picture. Same thing on RAW, they should have Natalya, Naomi, Tamina, Alicia Fox, Dana Brooke and others going after Becky Red Belt.  

Edited June 8, 2019 by ee28max

[skidmarkgn]

I know that the vast majority of live crowds aren't smarks and they're just enjoying the moment but hearing the heat that Corbin's getting in the opening segment is killing me.  Because Vince can hear it too.

[GoodbyeBread]

To quote a page from the book The Death of WCW:

"When the business is hot, You can do no wrong. When the business is cold, you can do no right."

 

I mentioned this before in previous posts and i believe this applies in today's situation. 

[jackmadrox]

9 hours ago, GoodbyeBread said:

To quote a page from the book The Death of WCW:

"When the business is hot, You can do no wrong. When the business is cold, you can do no right."

 

I mentioned this before in previous posts and i believe this applies in today's situation. 

I agree.

 

However, putting on shit shows like last night on RAW is no way to heat up the ice.

[skidmarkgn]

14 hours ago, GoodbyeBread said:

To quote a page from the book The Death of WCW:

"When the business is hot, You can do no wrong. When the business is cold, you can do no right."

 

I mentioned this before in previous posts and i believe this applies in today's situation. 

 

I wonder what dictates the "business" being hot or cold?  I mean, right now, WWE pretty much is the business.  There's various other companies out there but none of them are on the same level as McMahon's company.  So is it "hot" when the WWE's on point?  If that's the case then the confusing, inconsistent, incoherent nonsense that WWE's putting out week after week is why the business is cold right?  Seems like in our current environment the opposite is kind of true, the business is "cold" because the WWE (and specifically Vince) can do no right.

[Big_Bobs_Beeper]

Attended SDL/205 and it was pretty fun. It's sad when a 205 match was better than anything both Raw or Smackdown did this week. 

 

Smackdown was pretty boring. Still waiting for the Alexa Bliss & Big E heel turns we all know is coming, even my wife who knows nothing about wrestling can see the inevitable heel turns. 

Surprisingly no Reigns on either Raw or SDL. Did he get trapped in Saudi Arabia or something?? 

[GoodbyeBread]

On 6/12/2019 at 0:36 AM, skidmarkgn said:

 

I wonder what dictates the "business" being hot or cold?  I mean, right now, WWE pretty much is the business.  There's various other companies out there but none of them are on the same level as McMahon's company.  So is it "hot" when the WWE's on point?  If that's the case then the confusing, inconsistent, incoherent nonsense that WWE's putting out week after week is why the business is cold right?  Seems like in our current environment the opposite is kind of true, the business is "cold" because the WWE (and specifically Vince) can do no right.

 

The way I interpret the quote is a warning for businesses that don't strive for long term success.

(since I brought up the quote, I'll briefly mention some context) 

 

Around its time, WCW has probably one of the biggest and boneheaded decisions ever made in the pro wrestling business, yet these were made at the time where WCW was making so much of a killing, WWF (and Vince) were getting their butt kicked with a steel toe boot. WCW, even with the ire of the fans, could afford to make mistakes and with the help of NWO, they could milk as much money as they wanted. In this case, "When the business is hot , you can do no wrong" means that mistakes were doable for the company because of they were successful and still able rake in huge amount cash from their fans. At the time, nothing could hurt them.

 

However, this would be would not be for so long. With financial success, they had no means to change and why would they? If it's not broken, don't fix it right? This is where the business for the WCW would turn cold. Because of long term fan resentment (as well as other factors), WCW suffered lost ticket sales and low television viewership rations. WWF would soon rise again and the writing would be on the wall for WCW. There wasn't nothing they could do to turn it around. In this case, "When the business is cold, you can do no right" means that because were unable to address the long term problem, they couldn't get their fans to stay with them and inevitably, they were finished.  

 

I brought the quote up in regards to AEW. While I believe its good to have competition, it still worries me to see a company throw down with an iconic pro wrestling business such as WWE. Lest we forget, TNA grew way to quickly and lost its momentum as soon as it started to directly competed with them.

 

You are correct that "WWE is the business", but i would argue that it isn't the business it once was. There have been some good improvements over years (NXT, acquiring more indie talent to WWE, Women matches getting better quality matches, to the point where they are in the main event of some shows), But their have been many MANY bad decisions over the years (Ruining the Nexus, Bringing back older talent to bury new talent, Backstage politics, NXT used briefly and then made into cannon fodder, "Baylay, This is your life" Segment, Vince's decisions and favoritism, etc). That is just to name a few and no doubt, we could make a list of WWE's short comings and it would take up the entire page of this thread.

  

Do I want WWE to fail? Well...no and I don't want AEW to fail either. As the saying goes, those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat it. Since its recent conception, AEW is ready to charge into battle. Whether this is sheer confidence or bitterness, the company has gained a lot of support from the fans. I'm hoping it does well, but i am concerned how they will go from here.

 

TL:DR - Business can be hot/cold in terms of financial gain. If Vince is still getting a ton of money with bad decision, then it would be considered hot. However, the other companies are getting hot as well, with AEW being the as hot as the Lut Desert. The way i see it, It is Vince's short-sightedness and out of touch demeanor that keeps it that way. The muscle bound hero that always wins, like Hulk Hogan, John Cena and Roman reigns (when he was heavily booed) has been done and fans are tired of it. Yet, Vince still presses the idea regardless as it is his guy. Thus, wrestlers are stuck under a ceiling made of plexiglass. Keep in mind, when i say that the business is cold for WWE, this is the result of many many poor decisions and the refusal to change or adapt for the long term.

 

[As a side note: If anyone is interested in The Death of WCW Book, I recommend it. there is so much detail in the book I haven't really touched upon. Give it a read, you wont be disappointed.]

[skidmarkgn]

If the rumors turn out to be true and Shane wins the title from Kofi... I'm done.  Almost as soon as Corbin was removed from his position of taking up 2 and a half hours of Raw's TV time he was replaced by something worse... which I didn't think would be possible, Shane McMahon.  Now, Shane takes up not only most of Raw but he's also constantly on Smackdown as well.  His feuds have been winning the "best in the world" tourney, winning tag team gold, going 3-0 against Miz and pinning Roman in their big match... how compelling, a McMahon that never loses.  Now they're talking about taking it a step further and putting him over the champ!!  No, I can't do it.  Hopefully there'll be enough outcry that the rumors get squashed, and quick, but this is 2019 WWE we're talking about.

[Dr_Mayus]

6 hours ago, skidmarkgn said:

If the rumors turn out to be true and Shane wins the title from Kofi... I'm done.  Almost as soon as Corbin was removed from his position of taking up 2 and a half hours of Raw's TV time he was replaced by something worse... which I didn't think would be possible, Shane McMahon.  Now, Shane takes up not only most of Raw but he's also constantly on Smackdown as well.  His feuds have been winning the "best in the world" tourney, winning tag team gold, going 3-0 against Miz and pinning Roman in their big match... how compelling, a McMahon that never loses.  Now they're talking about taking it a step further and putting him over the champ!!  No, I can't do it.  Hopefully there'll be enough outcry that the rumors get squashed, and quick, but this is 2019 WWE we're talking about.

Well this would make him a triple crown champion as he won the European and Tag belts as well. Also then he, Steph and Vince would have all been world champs

 

 

[skidmarkgn]

The last time the WWE did a PPV in Seattle and I skipped it, Bret Hart (my all-time favorite) showed up.  My heart kind of broke, but it was cool because I saw him dozens of times when I was a kid and he was tagging with The Anvil.  The last RAW I went to in Key Arena was when Daniel Bryan retired, that would have been something I would have regretted missing 'till I go in the ground, even though he eventually came back.  When I decided to pass on Stomping Ground I never looked back or thought twice, WWE's in the toilet and I don't really wanna pay that much money to go see something that I probably wouldn't really enjoy.  Now I'm starting to get that sinking feeling that skipping Stomping Ground is going to mean not seeing Bray/The fiend debut live... which will certainly go down as a huge regret.  Here's to hoping they'll wait to SummerSlam.

[skidmarkgn]

Is it the last name (or lack thereof) that makes Vince hate Joe so much?  I mean, I'm happy about Ricochet getting a rub but couldn't he at least chase Joe for a while instead of making Joe just a stop-gap jobber... again?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well, shows over.   What I saw was solid workrate-wise (I skipped Roman/Drew and Dolph Kofi) and the booking was okay, didn't like Joe jobbing a title away yet again, but everything at least made sense.  Very anti-climactic show that, unless the starting time was changed, ended about 45 minutes early?  Glad I skipped going.

Edited June 24, 2019 by skidmarkgn

[skidmarkgn]

Quick Stomping Grounds pro's and con's:

 

Pro's - 

 - Despite the severe lack of attendance (and yes Vince, it's 100% your fault and no one else's), crowd was hot.

 - Ricochet gets a title, and who doesn't want to see a Ricochet vs. Styles feud!!

 - Solid in ring work from top to bottom.

 - Booking (mostly) made sense.

 

Con's

 

 - Joe and Drew both lose AGAIN!!!!

 - HeY eveRyOnE, DiD yOU knOw That SeTh anD BEckY Are DatIng?  If not, WWE will make sure you do by relentlessly pounding it into your brain.

 - Ricochet's win aside, very predictable and by the numbers booking.  Yes, I complimented everything making sense, but that doesn't make all the SuperShowdown rematches any  less stale and predictable.

 - Baron Corbin in the main event is an absolute joke.  VINCE... NO ONE WANTS TO SEE HIM!!

 - Lacey Evans getting title shot after title shot, meanwhile, Asuka hasn't been on TV in how long?

 

And the worst con of all... ... ... not one "You don't know how hard it is to be Matt Hardy" video during the entire show.  What a crime.

Edited June 24, 2019 by skidmarkgn

[skidmarkgn]

Has WWE become so confusing and incoherent that I'm being forced to quadruple post even though a PPV and RAW have aired!?!  HELLO ... Hello ... hello  

 

Undertaker showed up and aligned with Roman for no reason, Mojo finally showed up in the ring after all those promo's months ago only to join the 24/7 job squad instead of having a match, almost every match got stopped and restarted because Vince has suddenly decided no wrestling is allowed during commercials, Baron Corbin and Lacey are both gonna be in another PPV title match even though neither one has even sniffed a victory despite getting shot after shot after shot, I mean, we've got the highest quality programming of all time going on right now, let's go!!

 

All that aside, maybe, juuuuuuuuuust maybe, Joe won't have to job to Super Kofi and he'll actually get a meaningful title run... even though he's a RAW guy... I think.