This game just doesn't acknowledge females

[fbdbh]

Just now, SnowxSakura said:

Doesn't change the fact arguing about pixelated characters is completely ridiculous ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Look, I agree that my original observation is bordering on nitpicking, and just set aside what's this argument is about.

 

But... what? It's never ridiculous to argue about "pixelated characters".

 

Video games are either works of art or representation of realities (even if just perceived and abstracted realities). They are made by people. Through effort and thought. They are made for people. People who can look at the product in diffenent ways. (Even in a slightly autistic way I do look at video games, but that's beside the point.)

 

But how is it ridiculous to ask questions about broader subjects though this medium?

 

My question, my original question was mostly out of confusion, again, I didn't socialize in English speaking countries, I didn't get it. Most people already jumped to the opportunity of turning this into SJW-centered debate and I don't even know what else, but...

 

But arguing about and around video games... it's never ridiculous in my opinion. 

[SnowxSakura]

1 minute ago, fbdbh said:

 

Look, I agree that my original observation is bordering on nitpicking, and just set aside what's this argument is about.

 

But... what? It's never ridiculous to argue about "pixelated characters".

 

Video games are either works of art or representation of realities (even if just perceived and abstracted realities). They are made by people. Through effort and thought. They are made for people. People who can look at the product in diffenent ways. (Even in a slightly autistic way I do look at video games, but that's beside the point.)

 

But how is it ridiculous to ask questions about broader subjects though this medium?

 

My question, my original question was mostly out of confusion, again, I didn't socialize in English speaking countries, I didn't get it. Most people already jumped to the opportunity of turning this into SJW-centered debate and I don't even know what else, but...

 

But arguing about and around video games... it's never ridiculous in my opinion. 

The reason why it's ridiculous.

 

they're not real people.

 

They don't have real feelings, or care what happens to them, because they're a bunch of 1s and 0s

[fbdbh]

12 minutes ago, dmland12 said:

 

You've got a valid point here.  If you've got an option to play as different characters, it's not too much to ask that the game offers a reasonable range of choices and also acknowledges whatever choice you've made.  I've seen people complain about much sillier things than this without getting a bunch of push-back for doing so.

 

I felt a similar thing when the population of Skyrim didn't recognize the fact that I beat Alduin.

 

I find these things just very-very lazy.

4 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

The reason why it's ridiculous.

 

they're not real people.

 

They don't have real feelings, or care what happens to them, because they're a bunch of 1s and 0s

 

It's my avatar. It is therefore me. It was made by real people. It is their work. It is real. I'm not worried about feelings of a nonexistent character. I'm arguing that my very real experience gets flawed.

 

It's not less real for me than watching people play football on television. It's just not.

 

The nature is reality varies from individual to individual. A video game character is real in a sense that it was created, it is used by real people to project their real personalities, so... are they nonexistent, or what?

Edited August 2, 2018 by fbdbh

[Sergen]

4 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

The reason why it's ridiculous.

 

they're not real people.

 

They don't have real feelings, or care what happens to them, because they're a bunch of 1s and 0s

 

They're real to me damn it ... Behind nearly every female character is a female voice actress and motion capture , they're selling out the female gender whenever they perform roles that don't fully conform to SJW ideals. 

[RunItsAShark]

I think in your personal life you have the right to be called whatever you want, whether it is "she", "him", "they/them", or whatever pronoun you prefer.

But a video game is stepping into someone else's world, you cannot expect them to cater to the identity / social needs of each and every person. Imagine how much extra work it would be if every video game asked you "how do you identify" at the beginning "male, female, they/them, none of the above, it, etc", and than had to customize the entire game to fit your niche. It's unreasonable.

[PerryToxteth]

1 hour ago, Captain Mahvel said:

What's wrong with being an "SJW"? Do you not fucking care about equality and the LGBTQIA+ community? Sometimes, I'm appalled by the responses I see in threads on PSNProfiles. It seems to me that many members of PSNProfiles do not understand how the patriarchy and heteronormativity are marginalizing people of color and women by not acknowledging that representation of diversity in media IS, in fact, a WONDERFUL thing. I can't wait until social justice activists win this battle and oust all of the homophobes, fascists, and racists that have been dominating the gaming industry for decades. 

 

Here we go, one feeling of being slighted and then suddenly the name-calling begins. People are less likely to see your side of an argument when you instantly label them a racist, fascist, etc., fill-in-the-blank. 

[angelgrievous]

2 minutes ago, PerryToxteth said:

 

Here we go, one feeling of being slighted and then suddenly the name-calling begins. People are less likely to see your side of an argument when you instantly label them a racist, fascist, etc., fill-in-the-blank. 

It was a troll post.  Don't bother responding to it.  

[fbdbh]

Just now, RunItsAShark said:

I think in your personal life you have the right to be called whatever you want, whether it is "she", "him", "they/them", or whatever pronoun you prefer.

But a video game is stepping into someone else's world, you cannot expect them to cater to the identity / social needs of each and every person. Imagine how much extra work it would be if every video game asked you "how do you identify" at the beginning "male, female, they/them, none of the above, it, etc", and than had to customize the entire game to fit your niche. It's unreasonable.

 

I generally agree (beside the fact that females are half the population, so hardly a niche). But if a game lets me make male and female characters, the game shouldn't assume anything about that character at all. 

 

I mean I'm not upset or anything, I just don't see how they couldn't write neutral dialogue. It's not harder.

[Potent_Delusions]

This game was made before the SJW plague, that's why. 

[Fubuki]

Whether you're left wing or right wind doesn't matter. Complaining about women not being acknowledge in a VIDEO GAME is just pure idiotic. This is video games we are talking about. It doesn't need to be like real life. 

[Sergen]

6 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

 

I generally agree (beside the fact that females are half the population, so hardly a niche). But if a game lets me make male and female characters, the game shouldn't assume anything about that character at all. 

 

I mean I'm not upset or anything, I just don't see how they couldn't write neutral dialogue. It's not harder.

 

Because when they made the game, people like you were hardly prevalent. A game developer isn't going through hundreds of hours of programming and creating their vision of what they want in their game just to then think "is some little bitch gonna complain about this down the line because we didn't conform to their ideals?" The last thing I'd be thinking if I was making a game would be whether I am catering to the minority who tries to ruin it for the majority. I mean, this is a skateboarding game and if you ever met a skater girl then you'd see that they're basically treated as "one of the guys" if anything. Skateboarding culture isn't exactly the kind of thing that SJWs are going to be interested in whatsoever. You're not helping anything here except giving people more of a reason to make fun of SJWs. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Sergen

[fbdbh]

Just now, Potent_Delusions said:

This game was made before the SJW plague, that's why. 

 

Partial explanation. How come the THPS games from the PlayStation 1 era didn't have this problem? Less is more. It would be rather horrible if this was pandering to diversity. That's absolutely horrific.

 

I actually applaud games that take an artistic stand in their choice. But skateboarding... I don't know, I do it IRL, and there are a lot of girls doing so, and doing well. The game doesn't do a really good job acknowledging this, is all.

[Dangisuckatgamin]

I’m sorry but being a gay male I have ran into little or no homophobia in gaming. It’s actually one of the most accepting areas of life for it to be honest. Yes you get the 12 year olds and “bros” who think throwing homophobic slang at me offends me, but in all honesty I just see it as you are jealous that I can live my life out in the open. 

[this is to the person who wanted to act like homophobia in the gaming community is such a large issue when in fact it’s the most accepting area for gays IMO]

 

ps. This thread is becoming a laughing matter. If you think a game from 8 years ago was really going to have the same politics of Twitter of today then you have lots to learn. 

[fbdbh]

Just now, Sergen said:

 

Because when they made the game, people like you were hardly prevalent. A game developer isn't going through hundreds of hours of programming and creating their vision of what they want in their game just to then think "is some little bitch gonna complain about this down the line because we didn't conform to their ideals"? The last thing I'd be thinking if I was making a game would be whether I am catering to the minority who tries to ruin it for the majority. I mean, this is a skateboarding game and if you ever met a skater girl then you'd see that they're basically treated as "one of the guys" if anything. Skateboarding culture isn't exactly the kind of thing that SJWs are going to be interested in whatsoever. You're not helping anything here except giving people more of a reason to make fun of SJWs. 

 

Okay, but I'm not an SJW. Quite the opposite. And I'm a skateboarder.

 

And I really-really believe that this type of game in particular is harmed by leaning too hard on the "dude factor", so to speak.

 

Catering to minority? I'm on with you. It's a horrible way to design. 

2 minutes ago, Dangisuckatgamin said:

I’m sorry but being a gay male I have ran into little or no homophobia in gaming. It’s actually one of the most accepting areas of life for it to be honest. Yes you get the 12 year olds and “bros” who think throwing homophobic slang at me offends me, but in all honesty I just see it as you are jealous that I can live my life out in the open. 

[this is to the person who wanted to act like homophobia in the gaming community is such a large issue when in fact it’s the most accepting area for gays IMO]

 

ps. This thread is becoming a laughing matter. If you think a game from 8 years ago was really going to have the same politics of Twitter of today then you have lots to learn. 

 

It is becoming a laughing matter, but for the sole reason that people see politics into my posts. Not once I have implied anything of sorts. My posts were never coming from ideology. They come from questioning of design, in this particular context, in this particular language. 

 

On Hungarian skate parks I've never heard girls addressed in such way, and I just... didn't... get it... why the game does this.

[SnowxSakura]

21 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

 

I felt a similar thing when the population of Skyrim didn't recognize the fact that I beat Alduin.

 

I find these things just very-very lazy.

 

It's my avatar. It is therefore me. It was made by real people. It is their work. It is real. I'm not worried about feelings of a nonexistent character. I'm arguing that my very real experience gets flawed.

 

It's not less real for me than watching people play football on television. It's just not.

 

The nature is reality varies from individual to individual. A video game character is real in a sense that it was created, it is used by real people to project their real personalities, so... are they nonexistent, or what?

Even if the characters FEEL real to you at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that they're NOT real, and never will be. And yes regardless of projection, it still doesn't change the fact that it's digital data, nonexistent

[TazDevilz1986]

1 hour ago, Sergen said:

I'm glad to see most of you haven't had an SJW mentality to this. If this little thing ruins a game for you, I think gaming might not be for you. It's really fucking stupid to see SJWs bitch about all this stuff. Next you'll say women have less rights than men and so on, but at least when they say that someone has raped them it ruins the rapist's life, unlike when a man gets raped by a woman and is laughed at for it. Either way, I'm not surprised to see a thread like this pop up, SJWs are trying to bitch about everything and threads like this rather ruin the credibility of feminism instead of helping it, since the minority who speaks against these things are ruining it for the people who actually care about women's rights. Gaming is the one thing right now that hasn't fully been catered to for the SJWs who bitch about everything and I hope it stays that way. I bet you wouldn't be bitching if they were calling men "lady" in the game the whole time. 

Well said bro.

[Lance_87]

You know what's the funniest part? Skate 3 is known for being a buggy mess, maybe the whole thing is a giant glitch...

[fbdbh]

Just now, SnowxSakura said:

Even if the characters FEEL real to you at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that they're NOT real, and never will be. And yes regardless of projection, it still doesn't change the fact that it's digital data, nonexistent

 

Data is not nonexistent ?

 

But by that logic, throw away literary criticism, right? Raskolnikov is just a couple of letters on a paper, right, fellas?

[SnowxSakura]

3 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

 

Data is not nonexistent 

 

But by that logic, throw away literary criticism, right? Raskolnikov is just a couple of letters on a paper, right, fellas?

You need to separate fiction from reality, otherwise you're going to end up like this south korean guy marrying his waifu body pillow.

 

Going to run down the street screaming "She's real to me!!!!!"

 

that's how ridiculous this sounds

 

[angelgrievous]

I'm gonna leave this post here, it's just my thoughts: 

 

Was this thread posted in good faith?  Yeah, I think so.  I don't think it's silly or weird or wrong even, to want to be represented in something you love and enjoy.  Every time I play a game I find myself becoming the character I'm playing.  I guess I role play in every game I play, except for the ones where the main protagonist is female.  It's not weird or wrong or sexist, I just find it easier fitting myself into a male character than into a female character.  This is most likely due to the fact that I am a male.  

 

I don't think it's a wrong that women want the same thing in return.  Or LGBTQ, or people of color, or Native Americans, or anyone else.  The ability to fit yourself into a character you play is one of the reasons I suspect a lot of people play games.  It's escapism at its finest.  I think representation in games for all people is an important thing that shouldn't be brushed aside.

 

That being said

 

I also think things can get a little carried away at times.  Colin Moriarty from IGN and Kinda Funny, respectfully, was cast out to the heathens and scum because he posted a silly joke on Twitter.  People are being harassed for giving feedback on a game to a developer, who happens to be a woman, and is cast out as a sexist and manspainer.  Threads here are blowing up and people can't understand why someone would have an issue with this.  Is it silly?  To you?  Yeah, probably.  To them?  Obviously not, they made a thread. Not everything is meant as you might take it.  Context is everything.  No more jumping off the gun without figuring shit out.  

 

So when my little sister plays a game and wants to fit into a character, it's not surprising that Tomb Raider is her favorite.  It's just easier when it's "you" on the screen.  Know what I mean?  

 

 

[fbdbh]

Just now, SnowxSakura said:

You need to separate fiction from reality, otherwise you're going to end up like this south korean guy marrying his waifu body pillow.

 

Going to run down the street screaming "She's real to me!!!!!"

 

that's how ridiculous this sounds

 

 

More power to him ?

 

In all seriousness I don't really get how you can say all that. Fiction does not equal reality, of ccccourse, but fiction exist to help us deal with reality, to talk about it in abstractions, from a distance, with the ability to add ideas that might or might not manifest in reality itself at one point. What's so ridiculous about this? Storytelling, art is as old as humanity itself. Video games are part of that. Even the most commercial ones.

[Dangisuckatgamin]

11 minutes ago, fbdbh said:

 

Okay, but I'm not an SJW. Quite the opposite. And I'm a skateboarder.

 

And I really-really believe that this type of game in particular is harmed by leaning too hard on the "dude factor", so to speak.

 

Catering to minority? I'm on with you. It's a horrible way to design. 

 

It is becoming a laughing matter, but for the sole reason that people see politics into my posts. Not once I have implied anything of sorts. My posts were never coming from ideology. They come from questioning of design, in this particular context, in this particular language. 

 

On Hungarian skate parks I've never heard girls addressed in such way, and I just... didn't... get it... why the game does this.

I see where you are coming from. But I’m assuming they made the game with an American Way in mind. And at least where I’m from we can happily be open minded yet joke around enough to call each other words that shouldn’t be considered offensive like “bro” . Just remember the game came out long before most gender equality and most movements in the gay equality movements as well. Remember that the developers made the game around a different timeframe.

 

[HardXDXtraga]

5 minutes ago, Sergen said:

 

Because when they made the game, people like you were hardly prevalent. A game developer isn't going through hundreds of hours of programming and creating their vision of what they want in their game just to then think "is some little bitch gonna complain about this down the line because we didn't conform to their ideals?" The last thing I'd be thinking if I was making a game would be whether I am catering to the minority who tries to ruin it for the majority. I mean, this is a skateboarding game and if you ever met a skater girl then you'd see that they're basically treated as "one of the guys" if anything. Skateboarding culture isn't exactly the kind of thing that SJWs are going to be interested in whatsoever. You're not helping anything here except giving people more of a reason to make fun of SJWs. 

 

Although it really is nitpicking, it wouldn't be hard to just not have the girl say 'ouch, the nuts!', they wouldn't have to bend over backwards to make that adjustment. 

 

But as was said several times, it's an 8 year old game and these kinds of things weren't a priority back then. No need to fire James Gunn flame the game over something that happened so long ago. 

[XX_FTW]

3 hours ago, NightRusticDawn said:

The game is 8 years old, not only have the language changed over that time but so has the political landscape.

 

Why are you assuming the characters sexuality? Maybe it's a Woman that wants nothing more then to be the opposite gender?

Maybe some the Preset characters are gay or transvestites, how do you know?

 

Well the game is 8 years old, I don't think you can expect anything from it. It's innocence by culture.

 

 

Oh boy... just... stop. Your attempts at jokes are revealing your complete lack of understanding.

 

Gender and sexuality are complete different. Being trans does not equate gay and being cis does not equate straight. Secondly, transsexuals and transvestites are completely different things. All of your attempt at humor aside, to the OP’s point, I’m pretty sure pronouns weren’t invented within the last 8 years. The distinct between male and female pronouns is still a valid criticism, even if it’s not something you are bothered by.

[fbdbh]

2 minutes ago, angelgrievous said:

I'm gonna leave this post here, it's just my thoughts: 

 

Was this thread posted in good faith?  Yeah, I think so.  I don't think it's silly or weird or wrong even, to want to be represented in something you love and enjoy.  Every time I play a game I find myself becoming the character I'm playing.  I guess I role play in every game I play, except for the ones where the main protagonist is female.  It's not weird or wrong or sexist, I just find it easier fitting myself into a male character than into a female character.  This is most likely due to the fact that I am a male.  

 

I don't think it's a wrong that women want the same thing in return.  Or LGBTQ, or people of color, or Native Americans, or anyone else.  The ability to fit yourself into a character you play is one of the reasons I suspect a lot of people play games.  It's escapism at its finest.  I think representation in games for all people is an important thing that shouldn't be brushed aside.

 

That being said

 

I also think things can get a little carried away at times.  Colin Moriarty from IGN and Kinda Funny, respectfully, was cast out to the heathens and scum because he posted a silly joke on Twitter.  People are being harassed for giving feedback on a game to a developer, who happens to be a woman, and is cast out as a sexist and manspainer.  Threads here are blowing up and people can't understand why someone would have an issue with this.  Is it silly?  To you?  Yeah, probably.  To them?  Obviously not, they made a thread. Not everything is meant as you might take it.  Context is everything.  No more jumping off the gun without figuring shit out.  

 

So when my little sister plays a game and wants to fit into a character, it's not surprising that Tomb Raider is her favorite.  It's just easier when it's "you" on the screen.  Know what I mean?  

 

 

 

I actually really-really like this thread, all things considered.

 

Fun fact: there are no gender pronouns in Hungary, not even he or she, him or her. I now realize that all this kind of stuff is way more volatile in English speaking countries.