So Let's Really Talk about the Leaderboards

[AffectatiousDonk]

I didn't think it was completely right to leave these forums without laying out some truths about the boards and gamers in general. Let's be honest the quality vs quantity / completionists vs trophy whore / Cheat vs regular gamer is always at the fore on this site  so perhaps I can share some insight after three years of gaming as to what is going on, why you should only ever play yourself, should you care and perhaps where better to fuel your diatribes in the future.

 

Now whether you choose to read this or not is totally up to you, but I really doubt there is any other person on here that is going to present this truth, whether you choose to shoot it down, acknowledge it, laugh it off or simply choose to ignore it, well that choice is yours, but perhaps it might shed some reality on to why you should place ZERO stock on the numbers.

 

The Reality ( well at least how CJ sees it )

 

1. While you might continue to believe that many of the high level accounts on the boards are cheating they are really not. Many of the top players I have meet and dealt with are truly standup people, well educated, intelligent and successful in their non gaming lives. The fact that they are not more active ( and often very difficult to establish any discourse  with ) is a loss to the community but unsurprising considering the continuous threads about " trophy whores " / " Cheats "  " multi team accounts " and general disrespect that is often driven their way by many members of the community.

 

2. Trophy Spammers ( taking a term the completionists so love to bander about ) don't have any ill will to " Completionists " by and large. The division never comes from this camp. If you don't accept that look at every thread started by a gamer on this issue.

 

3. The Majority of Cheaters are not High Level Players. Completionists are notorious for cheating, I know many players that have abandoned accounts or are close to because of hacking or other such flag-able offences. I in no way blame them, Completionists succumb to a level of OCD that is at the pinnacle of trophy addiction. If you still feel this is BS then consider the fact that many of the high ranked players have spent 10's of thousands of dollars to get there, do you really think they will risk it on hacking a few trophies. If you need more proof most " Trophy Spammers " (what a distasteful term) don't care about completion so why would they care if they could finish a game. Now can you really say the same for all completionists. 

 

4. Hacking trophies is the simplest form of cheating. Many players on the boards often resort to " shareplay " or simply allow others to sign into their accounts to finish games or clock up the required amount of time / goals etc etc to meet the criteria in certain games. While this may be in the " grey " area if we are being honest this is clearly as much cheating as hacking if not more so.

 

5. You need to have serious resources to climb to the top of the boards. Even with account sharing (which is of course rife) or simply relying on your friends to source you games climbing the boards is seriously expensive. Don't believe that any player in the top 1000 hasn't spent serious $ on repeat stacks, BS games and anything in between to get there. If you don't intend to do the same then don't expect to get there. If you have got there and didn't then you used your advantage with someone that did. I mean we should be honest if for no other reason than transparency. 

 

6. If you don't believe spending $ on repeat stacks is worth it (and more power to you ) stop criticising the people that do. Those people ARE PAYING THE DEVELOPERS TO MAKE MORE GAMES FOR YOU. If anything smile and say thank you. If they want to fund the future production on repeat versions of the same game then more power to them (stupid fucks right) just sit back and enjoy the rewards.

 

5. The simple truth is the " flagging team " on here are not able to keep up with the reality of what is going on. There head in the sand approach about what is and isn't possible is often sourced by well surprise surprise other completionists. Many of these completionists that continue to comment have abandoned previous accounts for the same thing, well I guess there is some irony in that right. Nevertheless the disrespect that many of the " team " express and the public shaming is unfortunate at best.

 

6. Many trophy hunters are addicts. But not all. There are some amazing people you will meet in gaming but don't succumb to the trap of moving on when you realise that the games are more important than the people. Many hunters are simply interested in access to games / accounts or whatever else. Once these are removed from the equation there is nothing left for them and they move on. Again I don't offer judgement on these players but it is what it is. 

 

7. If you are going to give away prizes (money/game/ or whatever) don't give it to gamers. If nothing else surely I am qualified to comment on this. And if you do give it to complete randoms, they deserve it and will appreciate it. Give your generosity to content providers of which there are many. 

 

And if you made it this far perhaps we are on a similar page, gaming is fun, trophies are awesome, some trophy hunters are not, choose wisely and always be ready to walk away. If your "gaming mates " are real mates they will follow, and well if not then donate something to charity on their behalf because they can't help themselves .... yet. 

 

I base this on 3 years of gaming, meeting a multitude of gamers. funding giveaways, helping other gamers boost, having the ability to walk away / remove my profile and still continue to game without the "attention " that is so often thrown about on here and continuously giving to others where I can ( perhaps the biggest failure of the admins on this site ). 

 

So do with this what you will. But don't ever feel you have to prove yourself to the boards, or other players, very few of them are as standup as they pretend. 

 

Goodluck in all your gaming, who knows perhaps you knew this long ago, but if not chin up, gaming is great, trophies are awesome, play yourself, fuck the whingers (whatever sort of gamer they label themselves) , and don't for one minute let the BS of the " community " supposedly shunning you enter into the equation. Because fake is fake, but real is worth the chase.

 

Life is good, be good as well,

 

Cj

 

 

[Baker]

Although, for the most parts, I disagree with you I’m not going to comment about it. Instead I’m gonna grab some popcorn as we all know how these threads will end up. 

[AlchemistWer]

10 minutes ago, BakkerJ said:

Although, for the most parts, I disagree with you I’m not going to comment about it. Instead I’m gonna grab some popcorn as we all know how these threads will end up. 

Here we go again. 

[fbdbh]

Thanks for the generalizations and assumptions, it is a truly delightful reading.

[ThatMuttGuy]

I don't understand the point of this thread. Basically you're saying some people are shit and some people aren't, which isn't news. 

[Juzota]

I've been playing games for 28 years. Thank you for finally telling the truth about everything.

[SkyMason]

A mix of common sense and some wildly reaching presumptions. I really don't know what you're expecting people to take away from this.

[KamakuraHero]

Sooooooo, you point is?

[EternalChaos72]

1 hour ago, cjshaitan said:

While you might continue to believe that many of the high level accounts on the boards are cheating they are really not.

What a pile of shit. 

[SnowxSakura]

1 hour ago, cjshaitan said:

 

4. Hacking trophies is the simplest form of cheating. Many players on the boards often resort to " shareplay " or simply allow others to sign into their accounts to finish games or clock up the required amount of time / goals etc etc to meet the criteria in certain games. While this may be in the " grey " area if we are being honest this is clearly as much cheating as hacking if not more so.

Shareplaying isn't cheating when it's encouraged and advertised by Sony.

 

1 hour ago, cjshaitan said:

 

6. If you don't believe spending $ on repeat stacks is worth it (and more power to you ) stop criticising the people that do. Those people ARE PAYING THE DEVELOPERS TO MAKE MORE GAMES FOR YOU. If anything smile and say thank you. If they want to fund the future production on repeat versions of the same game then more power to them (stupid fucks right) just sit back and enjoy the rewards.

 

 

 

Why are you hypocritical? You tell people to stop criticizing others for how they spend their money and then straight up criticize them with an insult. 

 

This is clearly trolling at this point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[AffectatiousDonk]

6 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Shareplaying isn't cheating when it's encouraged and advertised by Sony.

 

Why are you hypocritical? You tell people to stop criticizing others for how they spend their money and then straight up criticize them with an insult. 

 

This is clearly trolling at this point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

6 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Shareplaying isn't cheating when it's encouraged and advertised by Sony.

 

Why are you hypocritical? You tell people to stop criticizing others for how they spend their money and then straight up criticize them with an insult. 

 

This is clearly trolling at this point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I am more than happy to take another warning point for " trolling " if so deemed but to be honest with you I have probably bought more stacks of games than almost anyone so I don't think your point hasn't much validity. Perhaps the fact that I felt I needed to post that joke says soemthing though.  

36 minutes ago, Juzota said:

I've been playing games for 28 years. Thank you for finally telling the truth about everything.

 

Who knows, it is just how I see it. The funny thing is this thread will almost definitely cause negative friction but it doesn't matter. The only point was to show to others what is going on, I have long since given up on validation here. I meet some great people it is just a real shame that the vocal minority is so strong verbally but so weak " charitably " 

[nyonmyan]

I was kinda spooked by the OP's warning, preparing myself for the hard to swallow redpill, but the post was pretty lukewarm.

Some people who get trophies are decent folk? I know that myself, as I'm beautiful, intelegent and modest.

 

25 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Shareplaying isn't cheating when it's encouraged and advertised by Sony.

Sony is not an authority on what is cheating and what isn't.

[SnowxSakura]

2 minutes ago, nyonmyan said:

I was kinda spooked by the OP's warning, preparing myself for the hard to swallow redpill, but the post was pretty lukewarm.

Some people who get trophies are decent folk? I know that myself, as I'm beautiful, intelegent and modest.

 

Sony is not an authority on what is cheating and what isn't.

When it's their console, and their network, yes, yes they are. Otherwise there would be rules about it on their terms of service

[nyonmyan]

4 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

When it's their console, and their network, yes, yes they are. Otherwise there would be rules about it on their terms of service

• You may not cheat, exploit or use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional game mechanics in PSN Services or any of its products or services to obtain an unfair advantage.

[SnowxSakura]

3 minutes ago, nyonmyan said:

• You may not cheat, exploit or use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional game mechanics in PSN Services or any of its products or services to obtain an unfair advantage.

Like I said in my first post shareplay is not against their rules and they actively encourage people to use it as a built in feature on the ps4. 

 

[nyonmyan]

5 minutes ago, SnowxSakura said:

Like I said in my first post shareplay is not against their rules and they actively encourage people to use it as a built in feature on the ps4. 

 

 

Oh, I misunderstood.

So, your position is that buying plats on ebay is not cheating, because Sony didn't mentioned that practice in TOS, right?

[SnowxSakura]

3 minutes ago, nyonmyan said:

 

Oh, I misunderstood.

So, your position is that buying plats on ebay is not cheating, because Sony didn't mentioned that practice in TOS, right?

As long as they're using the share play feature built into the PS4, no, they are not cheating.

[MMDE]

2 hours ago, cjshaitan said:

 

1. While you might continue to believe that many of the high level accounts on the boards are cheating they are really not. Many of the top players I have meet and dealt with are truly standup people, well educated, intelligent and successful in their non gaming lives. The fact that they are not more active ( and often very difficult to establish any discourse  with ) is a loss to the community but unsurprising considering the continuous threads about " trophy whores " / " Cheats "  " multi team accounts " and general disrespect that is often driven their way by many members of the community.

 

 

The fact is, I've personally flagged and got deleted many of the top accounts that used to be there, so the top of the list has far less cheaters now. Still, the point you make here is false.

 

Fact:

9 out of the top 50 has a flag. 

5 out of the top 51-100 has a flag.

13 out of the top 101-150 has a flag, and I saw many of them had 2.

etc

 

That's 35% of what is left of the top 150, and this is just what mostly I and some few others have been able to detect.

Edited August 11, 2018 by MMDE

[Darkette]

Not even going to express my opinion. It’s funny how most of these points that you line out as facts are in your favour though.  

[clickclick-uhoh]

Cheating is a term that has such a broad potential meaning. Cheating would be breaking the rules, right? this site has different rules then sony does.

23 minutes ago, nyonmyan said:

• You may not cheat, exploit or use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional game mechanics in PSN Services or any of its products or services to obtain an unfair advantage.

 So according to ToS, most guides on any trophy site encourage cheating by this definition. I can't even tell you how many games I've used glitches or not updated to the latest patch for some exploit or another. The important thing to remember is who is defining the rules. If you want to use this sites leaderboards, use their rules. 

 

 The funny thing is the rules can change at any time. The rules in place aren't even all consistently enforced. You can't even get a consistent opinion on what cheating is either. People say multi team is cheating. people say stacks are cheating, people say glitches, downloaded saves, hacks, exploits, debug menus are all cheating. Some say they aren't. Play how you wanna play. But if you break a rule in a community to which you belong, don't be surprised if they hit you with a ban hammer of some kind.

[MMDE]

2 hours ago, cjshaitan said:

2. Trophy Spammers ( taking a term the completionists so love to bander about ) don't have any ill will to " Completionists " by and large. The division never comes from this camp. If you don't accept that look at every thread started by a gamer on this issue.

 

What is a trophy spammer? You mean too easy games? Those sure makes it expensive to stay "competitive". I see no issue with people getting easy trophies, in large amounts. What I often see with easy and heavily stacked games, often done very fast, a lot of these games in a row, is that it's not the owner of the profile who actually got them the trophies. They let someone else do it for them. This of course is an issue in and of itself, but what we also find is that so many of them hack the trophies. Yes, they don't even play the games for them. Always raises a red flag for me.

[SnowxSakura]

10 minutes ago, clickclick-uhoh said:

Cheating is a term that has such a broad potential meaning. Cheating would be breaking the rules, right? this site has different rules then sony does.

 So according to ToS, most guides on any trophy site encourage cheating by this definition. I can't even tell you how many games I've used glitches or not updated to the latest patch for some exploit or another. The important thing to remember is who is defining the rules. If you want to use this sites leaderboards, use their rules. 

 

 The funny thing is the rules can change at any time. The rules in place aren't even all consistently enforced. You can't even get a consistent opinion on what cheating is either. People say multi team is cheating. people say stacks are cheating, people say glitches, downloaded saves, hacks, exploits, debug menus are all cheating. Some say they aren't. Play how you wanna play. But if you break a rule in a community to which you belong, don't be surprised if they hit you with a ban hammer of some kind.

They're referring to online modes in the terms of service

[MMDE]

2 hours ago, cjshaitan said:

 

3. The Majority of Cheaters are not High Level Players. Completionists are notorious for cheating, I know many players that have abandoned accounts or are close to because of hacking or other such flag-able offences. I in no way blame them, Completionists succumb to a level of OCD that is at the pinnacle of trophy addiction. If you still feel this is BS then consider the fact that many of the high ranked players have spent 10's of thousands of dollars to get there, do you really think they will risk it on hacking a few trophies. If you need more proof most " Trophy Spammers " (what a distasteful term) don't care about completion so why would they care if they could finish a game. Now can you really say the same for all completionists. 

 

 

 

The majority of players are not high level players, but a good portion of the high level players are cheaters, so let's not kid ourselves here. As I said, out of the remaining top 150, and trust me, there's been a few that has been removed, 35% has one or two flags.

 

Many completionists are not cheaters, but the more trophies they got the more they seem to be willing to cheat if they simply can't get this one trophy. Often they won't get caught for that, and it's the ones that often find themselves in this situation that does, which is why they are more likely to be detected when they got a lot of games.

 

The argument that they wouldn't cheat when they've invested so much into their account is just false. They don't think they will get caught, so what are they risking?  Sometimes it's not them who cheat it either, sometimes it's other players who play on their account.

 

100% on all PS3 games, and not on PS4 is a red flag for sure. Especially when a lot of PS3 games were finished up around the same time etc.

[AffectatiousDonk]

12 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

The fact is, I've personally flagged and got deleted many of the top accounts that used to be there, so the top of the list has far less cheaters now. Still, the point you make here is false.

 

Fact:

9 out of the top 50 has a flag. 

5 out of the top 51-100 has a flag.

13 out of the top 101-150 has a flag, and I saw many of them had 2.

etc

 

That's 35% of what is left of the top 150, and this is just what mostly I and some few others have been able to detect.

 

Thankyou, perhaps that is why so many of what is left are good people. I only speak from my experience how many of the top 100 players left over the last 2 years or so. 

[MMDE]

2 hours ago, cjshaitan said:

 

4. Hacking trophies is the simplest form of cheating. Many players on the boards often resort to " shareplay " or simply allow others to sign into their accounts to finish games or clock up the required amount of time / goals etc etc to meet the criteria in certain games. While this may be in the " grey " area if we are being honest this is clearly as much cheating as hacking if not more so.

 

 

 

I disagree. Yes, you didn't do it, but someone did put in the effort for that pop of the trophy. This is distinguished from using someone else's save file in that they haven't done it again for your trophy. The problem isn't as much that someone else does it for you IMO, it's more that it's done on a massive scale and that most of the time it's cheated, often not even played the games. The worst problem of all is edited trophies. They don't play or own the games. When you buy trophies from certain sites, this is what they do. Trust me, when I feel motivated to hunt for cheaters, these are the ones I care particularly much about, and always look for more ways to detect. I don't wanna discuss certain problematic aspects of it, because there's some serious ones. Your buddy or someone you know online playing shareplay for you, I don't give a damn about it.