Dis community got gud

[iGGTheEnd]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 5:23 AM, Copanele said:

I swear if this game taught me anything , it's " become the embodiment of ninja Sonic in a videogame" . Except Genichiro who is a block spamfest, every boss in the game can be solved by sprinting like Usain Bolt around the area. I don't even know if it's considered a cheese at this point  

Honorable mention to the ultimate boss in the game , Hirata Estate pillars, who made the running abit harder vs papa owl. 

The ultimate boss in the game is actually Camera angle.  Camera angle on NG++ is an asshole and has ended many good fights haha,

[Copanele]

2 hours ago, iGGTheEnd said:

The ultimate boss in the game is actually Camera angle.  Camera angle on NG++ is an asshole and has ended many good fights haha,

I wonder if camera angle scales with attack power  

But really this is how I treat every single area and every single moving enemy/lizard/pillar in this game ( in spoiler because megaspoilers in title )

Spoiler

 

 

[sunashigure1]

On 4.05.2019 at 6:54 PM, iGGTheEnd said:

The ultimate boss in the game is actually Camera angle.  Camera angle on NG++ is an asshole and has ended many good fights haha,

 

Haha, especially during the fight with Lady Butterfly. Pity they didn't fix it.

[Killbomb]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:06 PM, aZombieDictator said:

And I'm just over here still at the blazing bull...

 

That's the one boss I never felt like I had much control over. For Sword Saint, Guardian Ape, both forms of Owl (to name a few), I got their movesets down and always felt in control afterwards but not Blazing Bull or his counterpart in Fountainhead. 

[phoenix_shade]

I've almost got my Git Gud badge, just have to finish my 4th playthrough. Game's good, but I'm not going to miss it when I'm done lol

[xxdmcgee2288xx]

On 5/2/2019 at 4:06 PM, aZombieDictator said:

And I'm just over here still at the blazing bull...

 

They nerfed the bull...

WHAT are you DOING, man? I’m jk.. kinda..

[phoenix_shade]

Just want to say... tonight I finally got "gud" and got my platinum on this game. Rest in Peace... now off to some castlevania!

[DF007gamer]

On 4/25/2019 at 0:18 AM, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

. On top of that, seriously, they're not that hard games at all and I am always baffled this reputation has still held all this time.

 

Of course you will be baffled at the hard reputation these games get from the community as you've not played one single FROM SOFTWARE game. Yes you can get OP but it's still takes skill gettting there. Platinum Sekiro or any other FS game then tell me it's not hard.

[JohnCenaSong-]

On 16/07/2019 at 11:45 AM, DF007gamer said:

 

Of course you will be baffled at the hard reputation these games get from the community as you've not played one single FROM SOFTWARE game. Yes you can get OP but it's still takes skill gettting there. Platinum Sekiro or any other FS game then tell me it's not hard.

 

I have the entire FromSoft library completed aside Sekiro because I don't own a copy yet and probably won't (I prefer the theme of the DS games, only played Bloodborne because it was free on PS+, on the fence for Sekiro, a sale might tempt me). I recall Demons Souls with 0 boss deaths (DeS is a joke, easiest for sure) and Bloodborne with less than 5 (incl. the DLC) on my first blind playthroughs. But thanks for the assumptions about what I do/don't play just because I was not willing to perpetuate a (what I feel is false) reputation for difficulty (seemingly to 'look cool' for beating a game?). Look at how many people beat these games, look how many people STREAM themselves going through the game blind and progressing at a reasonable pace. And there's some key words there, reasonable pace. Yes, some people die, yes, some bosses take newer gamers a little more time of course, but I don't see people get full-on stuck at any point. Those who really hardcore complain that it's too hard usually struggle with most other average games too, that just shows the casual audiences more beginner level gaming ability and at times their lack of patience to overcome an obstacle, not that a game itself is hard (otherwise every damn game would be 10/10 difficulty if merely dying once or twice made it 'hard'...)

 

I've watched people struggle more at times in a damn Call of Duty campaign yet I don't see those lauded with an 'ultra hard' reputation and people saying anything they found difficult is the 'CoD' of that genre (Crash, the Dark Souls of platformers ). It's a bizarre reputation that I feel people try to keep for the internet epeen points they'll get from the uninformed people who haven't played them, by saying they have beating them. They're not super easy, but they are just average, the platinum figures also help reflect that.

 

Damn good games, really fun, highly recommend, but certainly not what the reputation suggests.

 

Demon's Souls was the first one I played, around the time DS2 was popular on Twitch, and I enjoyed the game but was massively disappointed when it wasn't what the reputation implied, sure, it is probably the easiest of the bunch (seriously half those bosses are a god damn joke!) but I was expecting an exceptionally difficult game and didn't get one.

 

 

Extra note: Before someone says that most people who beat them used some kind of OP stuff etc. and that if they didn't then the game would be harder, I have a couple quick responses for that (I know this is a common elitism difficulty defence).

1) Not everyone does, we can't see everyone play to know for sure, but not everyone has seen or even knows about all the more OP builds and weapon locations in their first playthrough...

2) If it's in the game, part of the games legal ruleset (so, not glitches) and it makes it easy then by definition the game is easy by its own rules. Any game can be made harder by self-limitation, take Pokemon Nuzlockes and other self imposed challenges, it doesn't suddenly make Pokemon as a whole a 'hard' game, it's a personal choice the player made to make the game harder than intended for themselves.

[danceswithsloths]

@JohnCenaSong-

 

There's always gotta be that one dude "Dark souls isn't even that hard, I didnt even die while playing it."

 

You must be so cool! you don't even consider Dark Souls hard, you must be just the most bestest ultra supreme gamer ever!

 

There. Is that what you wanted? 

 

 

If you don't find the games hard then cool for you, but to go around saying that everyone who thinks they are hard is either bad at video games or just trying to stroke their epeen is extremely douchey. I've played and completed all kinds of games, including CoD games, but i still consider Soulsborne to be a pretty darn difficult game series, harder than probably 80% of other games coming out these days imo, so i guess I must just be super bad at video games or lying to impress people on the internet?

 

Difficulty couldn't possibly be subjective, could it?

Edited July 18, 2019 by danceswithsloths

[Deadborne]

"It wasn't hard for me, I don't understand how it can have the reputation of a hard game!"

Your skill set:
Soulsborne Games 10/10
Basic Human Empathy 2/10

 

Hey, no one's perfect!

[JohnCenaSong-]

 

3 hours ago, danceswithsloths said:

@JohnCenaSong-

 

There's always gotta be that one dude "Dark souls isn't even that hard, I didnt even die while playing it."

 

You must be so cool! you don't even consider Dark Souls hard, you must be just the most bestest ultra supreme gamer ever!

 

There. Is that what you wanted? 

 

 

If you don't find the games hard then cool for you, but to go around saying that everyone who thinks they are hard is either bad at video games or just trying to stroke their epeen is extremely douchey.

 

Childish to act like somehow saying the games are not worthy of the over exaggerated 10/10 difficulty reputation is somehow me boasting some kind of '1337 skillz' and I'm some kind of God tier gamer (somehow I expected someone would twist the comment that way despite me clearly not taking that position... not sure if you were intentional in that or just misunderstood my position). I didn't ask for praise for not dying in places and don't expect it because I'm not a crazy anomoly in doing so, MANY people have done so in a first playthrough and many of whom far superior to me in every way. In an era of gamers obsessively sharing their gameplay, we KNOW this to be true because we can literally watch it happen in front of our very eyes, and in many cases, live.

 

I also specifically mentioned another average game such as Call of Duty as a comparison for a reason. I see people struggle almost equally as much with an average CoD campaign (in terms of quantity of deaths). I find PLENTY of games challenging, not these however because they just feel like your standard accessible AAA level of difficulty, maybe a tad higher overall for less hand-holding and more ambiguity in how to proceed.

 

Yeah some players may or may not have a harder time because of personal preferences in games and genres etc. and that's where subjectivity plays it's part. But for the type of game it is, it's a very standard middle-of-the-road level of difficulty, maybe a tad difficult for some people and probably a tad more difficult generally when they first released as a few concepts were less mainstream when Demon's Souls launched, but this obscene elitism and 'I beat dark souls I'm hardcore' attitude is absurd. It's just a regular game, no need to be on some insane pedistal.

 

The numbers speak for themselves. 'OP' builds or not (as mentioned in the end of my last post about self imposed challenges not changing the base game difficulty) absolutely hundreds of thousands of people have beaten these games. If they were as hard as the reputations suggest, the figures would be drastically lower.

 

It's all marketing bullshit. Prepare to die blah blah blah, and how much emphasis the game puts on every single death, because of that now so many people became conditioned to viewing it as THE 'hardcore' game to identify themselves as 'hardcore', even perpetuating this reputation after playing when they themselves (I've looked at timestamps on some of y'all who've played the games) didn't even struggle much either! Are you afraid of being criticised for speaking honestly about the difficulty or are you trying to bolster the reputation so it looks cooler on your profiles? If dying once or twice makes a game a 10/10 kind of hard these days then I guess every game is the same.

 

Reminds me partly of the 'easy-mode' debate, people were so insecure about their gaming ability (which no one else should care about) that they needed Souls games to have their completion reputation as physical symbols of their hardcore gaming prowess. They feel the mere option of an easier mode takes away from them beating the game on its standard difficulty. Why? Because they can't show people how '1337' they are, people 'won't know I did it the harder way'. It often all comes down to this gatekeeping hardcore elitism requiring status symbols, which if deconstructed, destroys their sense of superiority for being so 'hardcore', thus, they try elevate their status symbols as high as possible to be looked on favourably for completing them.

 

It's just a game, like many others

 

A great set of games, and that is all.

[danceswithsloths]

1 hour ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

 

Childish to act like somehow saying the games are not worthy of the over exaggerated 10/10 difficulty reputation is somehow me boasting some kind of '1337 skillz' and I'm some kind of God tier gamer (somehow I expected someone would twist the comment that way despite me clearly not taking that position... not sure if you were intentional in that or just misunderstood my position). I didn't ask for praise for not dying in places and don't expect it because I'm not a crazy anomoly in doing so, MANY people have done so in a first playthrough and many of whom far superior to me in every way. In an era of gamers obsessively sharing their gameplay, we KNOW this to be true because we can literally watch it happen in front of our very eyes, and in many cases, live.

 

I also specifically mentioned another average game such as Call of Duty as a comparison for a reason. I see people struggle almost equally as much with an average CoD campaign (in terms of quantity of deaths). I find PLENTY of games challenging, not these however because they just feel like your standard accessible AAA level of difficulty, maybe a tad higher overall for less hand-holding and more ambiguity in how to proceed.

 

Yeah some players may or may not have a harder time because of personal preferences in games and genres etc. and that's where subjectivity plays it's part. But for the type of game it is, it's a very standard middle-of-the-road level of difficulty, maybe a tad difficult for some people and probably a tad more difficult generally when they first released as a few concepts were less mainstream when Demon's Souls launched, but this obscene elitism and 'I beat dark souls I'm hardcore' attitude is absurd. It's just a regular game, no need to be on some insane pedistal.

 

The numbers speak for themselves. 'OP' builds or not (as mentioned in the end of my last post about self imposed challenges not changing the base game difficulty) absolutely hundreds of thousands of people have beaten these games. If they were as hard as the reputations suggest, the figures would be drastically lower.

 

It's all marketing bullshit. Prepare to die blah blah blah, and how much emphasis the game puts on every single death, because of that now so many people became conditioned to viewing it as THE 'hardcore' game to identify themselves as 'hardcore', even perpetuating this reputation after playing when they themselves (I've looked at timestamps on some of y'all who've played the games) didn't even struggle much either! Are you afraid of being criticised for speaking honestly about the difficulty or are you trying to bolster the reputation so it looks cooler on your profiles? If dying once or twice makes a game a 10/10 kind of hard these days then I guess every game is the same.

 

Reminds me partly of the 'easy-mode' debate, people were so insecure about their gaming ability (which no one else should care about) that they needed Souls games to have their completion reputation as physical symbols of their hardcore gaming prowess. They feel the mere option of an easier mode takes away from them beating the game on its standard difficulty. Why? Because they can't show people how '1337' they are, people 'won't know I did it the harder way'. It often all comes down to this gatekeeping hardcore elitism requiring status symbols, which if deconstructed, destroys their sense of superiority for being so 'hardcore', thus, they try elevate their status symbols as high as possible to be looked on favourably for completing them.

 

It's just a game, like many others

 

A great set of games, and that is all.

so which am i then? i consider the games quite difficult, am i just bad at video games? or am i lying about the difficulty to try to impress people on the internet? your previous comment implied i should be one of the two...

 

and just cuz "hundreds of thousands" (you got a source for that number?) of people can beat the game doesnt mean it isnt hard, it just means people are determined. Less people have beaten much easier games, and more people have beaten harder games, because there are many many many more factors that affect how many people beat a game. How hard it is, how fun it is, how well it was advertised, who made the game, and a bunch more, so that's a useless point to make really.

 

"dying once or twice" see, this is where you start to sound like mr "i-dont-think-soulsborne-is-hard-bow-to-me" again. A lot of us died much more than once or twice. If you're so elite and impressive that you die only once or twice on every soulsborne game, cool for you, but a lot of us died many more times than that. I died dozens of times through most Soulsborne games.

 

Like I said, you can have your opinion about the difficulty of the games, but that doesnt mean everybody who does consider the games hard is trying to lie about the difficulty to impress somebody. A lot of us just genuinely think the game is difficult. sorry if that doesnt match up with what you think of the game dude but thats the way it is.

 

I don't understand that mentality at all "I don't think this game is that hard, everybody who says its hard must be lying to impress anonymous strangers, because they couldn't possibly have differing opinions!"

Edited July 18, 2019 by danceswithsloths

[JohnCenaSong-]

55 minutes ago, danceswithsloths said:

so which am i then? i consider the games quite difficult

Exactly, quite difficult. Even in your opening sentence you don't state it to be as hard as the reputation. But, interestingly if I look at your timestamps, considering the length of each game etc. and the fact you claim you didn't find it particularly easy, and gauging when you may have not been playing, you didn't seem to really have too much troubles getting through at a reasonable pace by the looks of it, I feel almost as if the pre-existing reputation may have influenced how you saw your progress perhaps? You didn't do badly, didn't look like you massively struggled any more than another game of similar length, it's not like you're going to get speedrun times on a first playthrough. Maybe it's not always the case that someone's lying, but I see so many people go through with relative ease only to bolster the reputation of difficulty afterwards. I never sat and watched you play, but you seem to have done just fine to me.

 

1 hour ago, danceswithsloths said:

and just cuz "hundreds of thousands" (you got a source for that number?) of people can beat the game doesnt mean it isnt hard, it just means people are determined.

Source I find quite simple and handy is just that we have steam achievements, trophies and gamerscore. Whilst PSNP figures for achievers are really high and tend to filter cheats for some credibility, we can also use official %'s with sale figures to come to a fairly realistic number (which interestingly enough for Bloodborne at least, calculating figures that way works out almost identical to the listed PSNP achievers on the platinum itself, which almost suggests nearly every platinum owner for Bloodborne is tracked on here  congrats to the site lol). These all tend to be in the hundred thousands approx. per individual platform last I checked.

 

And I agree, good games create a determination to finish them and increase the average players progress, but these do tend to stand above other well loved games and not everyone playing is a determined or skilled player, as with the streaming example we've seen more 'casual' audiences progress at reasonable pace.

 

By no means am I suggesting these games are EzPz Barbie game, but only maybe marginally higher than the average AAA and no where near the absurdly high reputation that puts it above almost every game that comes out.

 

1 hour ago, danceswithsloths said:

"dying once or twice" see, this is where you start to sound like mr "i-dont-think-soulsborne-is-hard-bow-to-me" again. A lot of us died much more than once or twice. If you're so elite and impressive that you die only once or twice on every soulsborne game, cool for you, but a lot of us died many more times than that. I died dozens of times through most Soulsborne games.

Okay, maybe if dying once or twice puts me in an elite category for Souls-borne I'll accept that I guess. But the point I was trying to imply was that people seem to die more often in non-Souls games and don't brandish them with the same reputation. It feels like perhaps maybe the emphasis on the death the game puts, plus marketing, plus reputation influences people to feel like they're failing more than they are, and that if you consider this genuinely that top tier difficult then every other game must be at that level too since, odds are, you probably die a similar quantity in such other titles.

 

Of course there's the subjectivity on preferences, but I feel there is a general scale. Games sway either way based on player preferences but have a general region they belong objectively. You might struggle a bit more with this particular style, some might be speedrunning it blind and blindfolded with 1 hand, but as a whole I'd consider it in the center ground of difficulty.

[danceswithsloths]

1 hour ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

Exactly, quite difficult. Even in your opening sentence you don't state it to be as hard as the reputation. But, interestingly if I look at your timestamps, considering the length of each game etc. and the fact you claim you didn't find it particularly easy, and gauging when you may have not been playing, you didn't seem to really have too much troubles getting through at a reasonable pace by the looks of it, I feel almost as if the pre-existing reputation may have influenced how you saw your progress perhaps? You didn't do badly, didn't look like you massively struggled any more than another game of similar length, it's not like you're going to get speedrun times on a first playthrough. Maybe it's not always the case that someone's lying, but I see so many people go through with relative ease only to bolster the reputation of difficulty afterwards. I never sat and watched you play, but you seem to have done just fine to me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I can agree that the reputation it has is exaggerated, and have even been known to make that very same point myself a couple times. All I'm trying to say is that I think theres a wide range of opinions on how hard people think these games are. For example, you said:

 

1 hour ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

only maybe marginally higher than the average AAA

 

I would disagree, I would consider them a decent amount harder than games like Call of Duty and God of War. But that's my opinion mostly, your experience may differ. 

 

1 hour ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

the point I was trying to imply was that people seem to die more often in non-Souls games and don't brandish them with the same reputation. It feels like perhaps maybe the emphasis on the death the game puts, plus marketing, plus reputation influences people to feel like they're failing more than they are, and that if you consider this genuinely that top tier difficult then every other game must be at that level too since, odds are, you probably die a similar quantity in such other titles

 

You actually specifically mentioned why I personally consider Soulsborne harder than other games in which I have died a similar amount of times. 

 

"The emphasis the game puts on death."

 

Not in advertising or story or any of that, but actual effect. In some other AAA titles these days, sure I might be dying a lot just like Souls, but who cares? The checkpoint is 40 seconds behind me, all the consumables I used are reset, and there are literally no adverse effects from repeatedly dying and trying again. Hell, some modern games actually crank the difficulty down if you die too many times on a specific part. In Souls, I have to worry about how far the run from my last bonfire is, I have to worry about the souls and possible humanity that I have left (or lost), I have to worry about having less health due to not being embered etc., I have to worry about spreading Dragonrot, and every consumable I used before that death was completely wasted. Freaking Sekiro even starts spawning aggressive spirit enemies in some areas if you have died a lot 

 

Personally, I think that people don't just "feel" like they are failing more when they die in these games compared to others, I think they are failing more. In other games a death means basically nothing, in these games it has impact.

 

I apologize if I came off somewhat aggressive, It's been a weird day and as someone who almost quit playing Bloodborne due to the difficulties I had in Central Yharnam, I felt somewhat attacked when it seemed like you were implying I was lying about my opinion on the difficulty, and I really shouldn't react that way.

Edited July 19, 2019 by danceswithsloths

[DF007gamer]

11 hours ago, JohnCenaSong- said:

 

I have the entire FromSoft library completed aside Sekiro because I don't own a copy yet and probably won't (I prefer the theme of the DS games, only played Bloodborne because it was free on PS+, on the fence for Sekiro, a sale might tempt me). I recall Demons Souls with 0 boss deaths (DeS is a joke, easiest for sure) and Bloodborne with less than 5 (incl. the DLC) on my first blind playthroughs. But thanks for the assumptions about what I do/don't play just because I was not willing to perpetuate a (what I feel is false) reputation for difficulty (seemingly to 'look cool' for beating a game?). Look at how many people beat these games, look how many people STREAM themselves going through the game blind and progressing at a reasonable pace. And there's some key words there, reasonable pace. Yes, some people die, yes, some bosses take newer gamers a little more time of course, but I don't see people get full-on stuck at any point. Those who really hardcore complain that it's too hard usually struggle with most other average games too, that just shows the casual audiences more beginner level gaming ability and at times their lack of patience to overcome an obstacle, not that a game itself is hard (otherwise every damn game would be 10/10 difficulty if merely dying once or twice made it 'hard'...)

 

I've watched people struggle more at times in a damn Call of Duty campaign yet I don't see those lauded with an 'ultra hard' reputation and people saying anything they found difficult is the 'CoD' of that genre (Crash, the Dark Souls of platformers ). It's a bizarre reputation that I feel people try to keep for the internet epeen points they'll get from the uninformed people who haven't played them, by saying they have beating them. They're not super easy, but they are just average, the platinum figures also help reflect that.

 

Damn good games, really fun, highly recommend, but certainly not what the reputation suggests.

 

Demon's Souls was the first one I played, around the time DS2 was popular on Twitch, and I enjoyed the game but was massively disappointed when it wasn't what the reputation implied, sure, it is probably the easiest of the bunch (seriously half those bosses are a god damn joke!) but I was expecting an exceptionally difficult game and didn't get one.

 

 

Extra note: Before someone says that most people who beat them used some kind of OP stuff etc. and that if they didn't then the game would be harder, I have a couple quick responses for that (I know this is a common elitism difficulty defence).

1) Not everyone does, we can't see everyone play to know for sure, but not everyone has seen or even knows about all the more OP builds and weapon locations in their first playthrough...

2) If it's in the game, part of the games legal ruleset (so, not glitches) and it makes it easy then by definition the game is easy by its own rules. Any game can be made harder by self-limitation, take Pokemon Nuzlockes and other self imposed challenges, it doesn't suddenly make Pokemon as a whole a 'hard' game, it's a personal choice the player made to make the game harder than intended for themselves.

 

 

I'm smelling a lot of BS.

[JohnCenaSong-]

17 hours ago, danceswithsloths said:

I apologize if I came off somewhat aggressive, It's been a weird day and as someone who almost quit playing Bloodborne due to the difficulties I had in Central Yharnam, I felt somewhat attacked when it seemed like you were implying I was lying about my opinion on the difficulty, and I really shouldn't react that way.

Eh, only vaguely in the initial response maybe, I admit I felt a tad offended being labelled as 'boasting' or something because (if you were to know me) I most certainly don't big myself up, I see myself very much as average, maybe a tad above average in some games. The idea that my comments about difficulty would be misinterpreted that way was a bit of a trigger of sorts. But honestly you've just given a reasonable little mini debate here lol, nothing aggressive in my eyes and I'm not taking anything negative from our discussion. I mostly just get fed up of the obscene reputation as the 'hardcore gamer' icon these games get when I don't view them even near that kind of league. It always just baffles me, especially with the previously mentioned stats and shared gameplay etc. which debunks much of that reputation.

 

I probably should have made clear earlier on that I didn't necessarily think everyone is a lier or a 'garbage tier' gamer for saying they found the games difficult in any way.

 

I'd say I disagree that the effects of death make something necessarily 'more difficult' but that's a whole new much bigger and complicated debate  best saved for another time  

 

13 hours ago, DF007gamer said:

 

 

I'm smelling a lot of BS.

And then we have people like this too lazy to make any worthwhile constructive point.

[Bloodytears1666]

To be honest without Kuro's Charm this game is a joke. In half in hour got to post second Genichiro's fight straight without a single death in new game 3, where with the item spent weeks to handle it in 2. The more I play this game, the more it looks less appeal in how weird it was made. Now stuck to be overpowered without any practical reason and made my walkthrough more painful, because with Charm, for example, in first visit to Ashina Castle, enemies give you 1300xp in NG2, now it's barely 1000xp, the only plus they die near instantly in face to face combat.

 

Dunno, why there is debates here about game's difficulty at all.