They broke the world of FFVII (major story spoilers)

[You]

You have been warned!

 

1997 - Sephiroth stabs Aerith in the back.

 

-> Creating the most iconic, memorable and gut wrenching death scene in gaming history.

 

2020 - Sephiroth stabs Barret in the front.

 

-> Is randomly resurrected by some random faceless ghost 5 minutes later, reason unknown and not explained.

 

---

 

In the next part of the remake, if Aerith does die once again by Sephiroth, how isn't she just going to be brought back to life by a random ghost as well?

And If not, then the question will be WHY NOT?!

 

Ghosts attack Seventh Heaven, they save Aerith in the church but then they block YOU getting materia a few minutes later.

They save Barret's life but then a few minutes later push Wedge out of the Shinra building windows, presumably to his death.

 

Why?!

 

What are the point of the ghosts? Why are they so randomly good but then also evil?

The faceless ghost theme running through the entire game is just such lazy story writing and wasn't necessary, they appear far too often and in many ways just spoil the story.

 

Although at the end of this remake, the completely confusing final chapter hints at "changing fate",

 

To have a character die in the same way as Aerith but then so casually be brought back to life. Final Fantasy lore has already been broken by this stupid Barret death scene. I have this feeling that Aerith won't die in the remake version now because she can't be.

 

On the one hand the possibility of Aerith not dying does makes me happy as I was sad in the original game when she was, but it also annoys me because her death is one of the main plot points of the entire game...

 

 

[sepheroithisgod]

The ghosts are ensuring that events happen the way they are intended to. They say it in the game they are the planets will and make sure everyone follows their Destiny.

 

In the original Barret did not get stabbed. Thus, the ghosts made sure he lived.

 

In the original Wedge died from falling down the sector 7 Pillar. Thus, the ghosts had him killed.

 

If Aerith dies in a future game, the ghosts will not revive her because it is her destiny to die,

 

[ShadowReplicant]

23 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

2020 - Sephiroth stabs Barret in the front.

 

-> Is randomly resurrected by some random faceless ghost 5 minutes later, reason unknown and not explained.

 

23 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

Ghosts attack Seventh Heaven, they save Aerith in the church but then they block YOU getting materia a few minutes later.

They save Barret's life but then a few minutes later push Wedge out of the Shinra building windows, presumably to his death.

 

Why?!

 

23 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

What are the point of the ghosts? Why are they so randomly good but then also evil?

 

The Whispers are basically agents of Fate – they are trying to preserve the timeline of the original FF VII. Barret can't die in that scene, so he is resurrected. Cloud and Aerith are supposed to escape from Reno in the church, so the Whispers push them out and funnel them to the exit. They also prevent Aerith from falling when the railing breaks and protect her from the trigger-happy Shinra soldier, because again, she's not meant to get hurt/die in that moment. During the slums attack they make Jessie fall down some stairs, which basically forces Cloud to go on the bombing mission instead of her.

 

23 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

In the next part of the remake, if Aerith does die once again by Sephiroth, how isn't she just going to be brought back to life by a random ghost as well?

 

At the end of Remake the heroes essentially defeat "Fate," which means that the Whispers are gone and anything is possible in the future (and the past, as evidenced by the alternate timeline where Zack survives). The entire ending is basically a plot device – Square Enix didn't want to do a 1:1 remake, they wanted to tell a different/alternate version of the story. And that's what they are doing.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by ShadowReplicant

[AlanFFM]

I agree. definitely won't be buying part 2 and 3. 

[RGCommander]

1 hour ago, ShadowReplicant said:

 

 

 

The Whispers are basically agents of Fate – they are trying to preserve the timeline of the original FF VII. Barret can't die in that scene, so he is resurrected. Cloud and Aerith are supposed to escape from Reno in the church, so the Whispers push them out and funnel them to the exit. They also prevent Aerith from falling when the railing breaks and protect her from the trigger-happy Shinra soldier, because again, she's not meant to get hurt/die in that moment. During the slums attack they make Jessie fall down some stairs, which basically forces Cloud to go on the bombing mission instead of her.

 

 

At the end of Remake the heroes essentially defeat "Fate," which means that the Whispers are gone and anything is possible in the future (and the past, as evidenced by the alternate timeline where Zack survives). The entire ending is basically a plot device – Square Enix didn't want to do a 1:1 remake, they wanted to tell a different/alternate version of the story. And that's what they are doing.

 

 

In other words, "hey these beings exist to keep everything as it was. Let's have you kill them so that the future can change and we can keep Aerith alive". 

[Ziggylergros230]

2 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

The ghosts are ensuring that events happen the way they are intended to. They say it in the game they are the planets will and make sure everyone follows their Destiny.

 

In the original Barret did not get stabbed. Thus, the ghosts made sure he lived.

 

In the original Wedge died from falling down the sector 7 Pillar. Thus, the ghosts had him killed.

 

If Aerith dies in a future game, the ghosts will not revive her because it is her destiny to die,

 

From the man who stabbed  Aerith himself.

[Crispy_Oglop]

I was waiting for a thread like this to pop up ?

 

I honestly don't think this is as confusing as the OP is making it out. It was all either explained outright or hinted at sufficiently to make a logical conclusion. Not intending to badmouth anyone here, but it was pretty easy to follow. The main issue people seem to have is based on how they've interpreted the ending. Nothing happened that says what happened in the original won't happen later on in the story though.

 

I really enjoyed the ending, but I'm on the fence as to whether this is a good direction when compared to the source material, I think there is a great deal unknown now until the second game. What I do know is that it's certainly not enough for me to behave rashly and say 'I won't buy 2 or 3' at this stage.

 

Also, this game was largely created by the people that created the original in most of the key areas. So I find it hard to criticise the potential new directions it's taking as the new 'version' is created by the people that literally own and created the source material in the most literal and pure sense.

 

I'm going to keep and open mind with the next instalments.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Crispy_Oglop

[sepheroithisgod]

6 minutes ago, Crispy_Oglop said:

I was waiting for a thread like this to pop up 

 

I honestly don't think this is as confusing as the OP is making it out. It was all either explained outright or hinted at sufficiently to make a logical conclusion. Not intending to badmouth anyone here, but it was pretty easy to follow. The main issue people seem to have is based on how they've interpreted the ending. Nothing happened that says what happened in the original won't happen later on in the story though.

 

I really enjoyed the ending, but I'm on the fence as to whether this is a good direction when compared to the source material, I think there is a great deal unknown now until the second game. What I do know is that it's certainly not enough for me to behave rashly and say 'I won't buy 2 or 3' at this stage.

 

Also, this game was largely created by the people that created the original in most of the key areas. So I find it hard to criticise the potential new directions it's taking as the new 'version' is created by the people that literally own and created the source material in the most literal and pure sense.

 

I'm going to keep and open mind with the next instalments.

I agree with everything here.

 

The game does a great job of explaining what the Whispers (the ghosts) are and their role.

 

For the future of games, I think they will follow the major events perfectly. IMO they just wanted the game to end with a bang and get people discussing the next games.

 

I think Square is fully aware of what will happen if they make this too different from the original.

[Vergil]

Hopefully we get all the answers soon and it won't take long for the second part to release. 

 

But yeah there was definitely some suprises. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Vergil

[Viscera1900]

Well actually the ending made me looking forward to part 2 and part 3 more than ever. 

I want to see what BIG BIG changes they're going to make in part 2 & 3 and orc rest of the party members.

At this point I'm just excited to see more journeys/stories of our favorite FF characters, so I don't mind the changes as long as they do it right in part 2 & 3.

[AyAerith]

Did you not pay attention to the story? The ghosts revived Barret because he is not destined to die. As you know, he will go on through the end of FF7. It was a cool little addition that I did NOT see coming and made my jaw drop. Same with the original avalanche members, how Biggs was revived at the end but Wedge was killed. It is a really cool addition to the game that not only surprises the original fans and keep them on their toes, it provides an explanation as to why the game will still play out the way it originally did. In the end, Aerith will die and the gang will face Sephiroth for one badass final series' boss.

[Alayaes]

2 hours ago, sepheroithisgod said:

I think Square is fully aware of what will happen if they make this too different from the original.

Square since the Enix merger and self awareness are generally never used in the same sentence.

[hsn963]

It all make sense my friend, when you don't think about it at all.

[You]

Adding new stories, new characters and fleshing out stories for existing ones in this remake was a welcome addition.

 

Saying the ghosts are ensuring that events happen the way they are intended too I guess makes sense up to a point but that still doesn't explain everything.

 

They also appear in brand new scenes messing around with you, what fate are they preserving in those scenes? Also why do the ghosts dickishly block you from getting a materia in a dead end, they are hardly preserving fate where later on you can just waltz in and pick it up anyway. That's more like a forced gameplay element.

 

Of course, why are thousands of them spinning around the Shinra building at the end? Why is it, at first only you can see them, but then Aerith can and then suddenly everybody can? Apologies if that was explained somewhere, I didn't see it though.

 

I didn't say I wasn't enjoying the game, I'm definitely looking forward to the next part but I honestly hope now that all the ghosts are gone because their presence was genuinely unnecessary poking their noses in at many points in the game.

 

The story of FFVII was already fine, just add new stories to the game and not tinker with everything.

Edited April 15, 2020 by enaysoft

[Herbalistiikka]

On 14.4.2020 at 9:39 PM, O-Yarsa said:

Square since the Enix merger and self awareness are generally never used in the same sentence.

 

That's a pretty weird cut-off point considering nearly all of the same (major) staff  members since they were Square still work there. Why did Enix cause Square to lose self awareness? Is it Horii's fault?

[Lord_Bane999]

It's a Remake, remakes don't have to follow the original story to the letter. It's considered a new continuity and universe basically. This means they can change what they want and alter what they will. People need to stop Nostalgia Tripping on the story saying things have to be this way or not, because it didn't happen in the original game.

[Alayaes]

5 hours ago, Herbalistiikka said:

 

That's a pretty weird cut-off point considering nearly all of the same (major) staff  members since they were Square still work there. Why did Enix cause Square to lose self awareness? Is it Horii's fault?

It's just a convenient time that matches when I feel that their quality went steadily down the drain. I'm not sure what the cause was. I'd say that FFX in 2001 was their last true quality product prior to FF7R. With the merger taking place in 2003, I can't think of any masterpieces since then. Not legendary titles like they had in the 90s.

 

They sometimes make decent things, but I think they went from a passionate smaller studio to a publishing house that releases mediocre stuff mainly.

 

The FF7 remake shows me that they still have good ideas, but it'll be a looooong time before they reach their former glory, in my opinion. If they ever do. I mean, there was a time where Square had a Rockstar status where almost everything they spit out turned into a timeless classic. That's not the case anymore.

Edited April 16, 2020 by O-Yarsa

[Kapika96]

The bigger issue is that they spelt Aeris' name wrong!

 

15 minutes ago, O-Yarsa said:

It's just a convenient time that matches when I feel that their quality went steadily down the drain. I'm not sure what the cause was. I'd say that FFX in 2001 was their last true quality product prior to FF7R. With the merger taking place in 2003, I can't think of any masterpieces since then. Not legendary titles like they had in the 90s.

2003 Was also the year Sakaguchi left Square. I think that's much more to blame for their decline than the merger with Enix.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Kapika96

[Herbalistiikka]

22 minutes ago, O-Yarsa said:

It's just a convenient time that matches when I feel that their quality went steadily down the drain. I'm not sure what the cause was. I'd say that FFX in 2001 was their last true quality product prior to FF7R. With the merger taking place in 2003, I can't think of any masterpieces since then. Not legendary titles like they had in the 90s.

 

They sometimes make decent things, but I think they went from a passionate smaller studio to a publishing house that releases mediocre stuff mainly.

 

The FF7 remake shows me that they still have good ideas, but it'll be a looooong time before they reach their former glory, in my opinion. If they ever do. I mean, there was a time where Square had a Rockstar status where almost everything they spit out turned into a timeless classic. That's not the case anymore.

 

Honestly, as much as it feels like some sort of rose tinted glasses I think it holds true for pretty much every long running studio and even not-so-long-running ones have had their ideas just run dry and because costs are ever increasing for bigger games it's just a matter of copying and trying to cater to whatever is popular. I was actually lamenting on the fact that despite not actually being a perfect game the original VII really hits many notes perfectly (music, scenery, specific game moments, the ragtag bunch of misfits characters...) and it's unlikely there'll be anything that nails it all ever again. (I'll have to say that Kingdom Hearts 2 is one game that I think is clearly one of SE's best games - the end segment alone is just fantastic)

Even Sakaguchi himself directed nothing but couple of mediocre-okayish games once he left Square. Of course this is just rambling about JRPGs but action games are having such a hard-on for Souls it's a joke.

 

It's all opinionated of course, because Square's library is also full of games that you don't remember one bit. Most of them just raise a big ? above your head and you just remember their best

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Herbalistiikka

[Nitemares-----]

I'm a veteran of RPG's of all kind, with my first one being Dragon Warrior and the original Final Fantasy on Nintendo. I never cared for the original Final Fantasy VII, nor did I finish it when it came out. What turned me off were the graphics and just how the story was progressing, didn't impress me at all. I decided to finally play the original last summer when it was ported with Trophies on the PS4 and beat it, so I'd have a better experience for this game. Still wasn't that impressed, laughed when Aerith died, thought it looked cheesy, unlike the remake, you just don't care for the characters. I'm sure some internet tough guys will rip me one because I don't like the original, but whatever ?. Loved this game and the in depth story, remember this is a remake, not everything is going to be the same, that's why there's elements and stuff from the other FFVII stories, don't want to list any spoilers. I'm sure they'll explain about what happened in the other games, but what I'm looking forward to is seeing Cosmo Canyon and Wutai updated.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Nitemares-----

[Alayaes]

9 hours ago, Herbalistiikka said:

It's all opinionated of course, because Square's library is also full of games that you don't remember one bit. Most of them just raise a big ? above your head and you just remember their best

 

Hey now. I have my copies of Treasure of the Rudras and Mystic Quest, lol. But those were among Chrono Trigger, FF6, and Xenogears.