[VIDEO] Cuphead and the Ethics of Trophy Hunting

[Gotakibono]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqStTnvBBK8

 

Cuphead's recent expolit has caused the ultra rarity of its platinum to decrease tenfold over one week. But is it considered a hack or cheating? And should anyone even care about how others get their trophies? it's a pretty tricky question that me and a friend stupidly try to discuss.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Gotakibono

[N1NJ4_V4MP1R3]

I’m the other person in the video  I had a great time recording this. We’re planning on releasing more videos so any feedback or topics you’d like to see covered would be great! 

[Helyx]

1 minute ago, N1NJ4_V4MP1R3 said:

We’re planning on releasing more videos so any feedback or topics you’d like to see covered would be great! 

 

Get your own mic and speak into it.

[NOWITSREYNTIME17]

6 minutes ago, Helyx said:

 

Get your own mic and speak into it.

wow, nice

[Kittet3]

You forgot the [video] tag.

 

Will also be nice if you add some more info to the opening post instead of it just being a video 

[Helyx]

Just now, NOWITSREYNTIME17 said:

wow, nice

 

Yeah, as an outsider looking in, I'm sure you think I'm being a prick. Thing is, I've known these boys for over a decade.

[PFinchen]

Ethics? Jesus, I guess I’m not taking this trophy hunting business nearly as seriously as some people. 

[N1NJ4_V4MP1R3]

22 minutes ago, Helyx said:

 

Get your own mic and speak into it.

It’s a very valid point. Our thinking here was going for a casual discussion vibe  our plan was to record videos like this when we can meet up and over video chat otherwise! I think you’re right though!

7 minutes ago, PFinchen said:

Ethics? Jesus, I guess I’m not taking this trophy hunting business nearly as seriously as some people. 

Oh we’re super serious over here ?

[Gotakibono]

49 minutes ago, NOWITSREYNTIME17 said:

wow, nice

 

Helyx could literally break into my house, steal all my beer, piss on my sofa and put Hannah Montana on my trophy list and I'd probably still cook him breakfast.

[TheGameCapsule]

I would argue boosting is bad for trophy hunting because you didn't get the trophy legitimately yourself, but hey -- in reality nobody really cares what trophies you have and how you got them.  If they did, Hakoom would be the most famous gamer on the planet, but he's not.

 

Trophies are just an extra challenge for me.  If people cheat to get trophies, that only shows what kind of people they are.

Edited August 26, 2020 by TheGameCapsule

[Gotakibono]

2 minutes ago, NekoRave said:

Tbh I was fine with everything until you said piss on my sofa. 

 

 

Not kink shaming but... 

 

Haha! I think I was fine until I said it as well.

 

49 minutes ago, PFinchen said:

Ethics? Jesus, I guess I’m not taking this trophy hunting business nearly as seriously as some people. 

 

Get your act together - this is serious business... that should not be taken seriously.

1 minute ago, TheGameCapsule said:

I would argue boosting is bad for trophy hunting because you didn't get the trophy legitimately yourself, but hey -- in reality nobody really cares what trophies you have and how you got them.  If they did, Hakoom would be the most famous gamer on the planet, but he's not.

 

I completely see your point. Online trophies are the devil anyway because they automatically mean you're going to have to depend on other people - or some dodgy servers - to unlock them.

[N1NJ4_V4MP1R3]

4 minutes ago, TheGameCapsule said:

I would argue boosting is bad for trophy hunting because you didn't get the trophy legitimately yourself, but hey -- in reality nobody really cares what trophies you have and how you got them.  If they did, Hakoom would be the most famous gamer on the planet, but he's not.

 

Trophies are just an extra challenge for me.  If people cheat to get trophies, that only shows what kind of people they are.

It’s so true that no one cares. I was trying to explain to someone who plays a lot of World of Tanks that I liked to collect trophies. I broke out my phone to show him my list and everything... i only embarrassed myself haha 

[realm722]

1 hour ago, PFinchen said:

Ethics? Jesus, I guess I’m not taking this trophy hunting business nearly as seriously as some people. 

 

It's so obvious you didn't even watch the video. They joke about how ridiculous it sounds in the first 30 seconds. 

 

Basically my rules for trophy exploits are this:

 

1) If it can be exploited in-game without 3rd party software hacks/cheating, it's fair game - it's on the devs to patch it

Example: Hollow Knight's invincibility exploit that takes the pantheons from a sub <0.5% trophy to achievable by everybody

[PFinchen]

8 minutes ago, realm722 said:

 

It's so obvious you didn't even watch the video. They joke about how ridiculous it sounds in the first 30 seconds. 

 

Basically my rules for trophy exploits are this:

 

1) If it can be exploited in-game without 3rd party software hacks/cheating, it's fair game - it's on the devs to patch it

Example: Hollow Knight's invincibility exploit that takes the pantheons from a sub <0.5% trophy to achievable by everybody

Of course I didn’t, it’s 17 minutes and I’ve got beers to smoke. No disrespect to OP but my brother is in town and I’ve got priorities. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by PFinchen
Explaining my guiding principles.

[Helyx]

9 minutes ago, PFinchen said:

I’ve got beers to smoke.

 

 

[TurtlePM]

2 hours ago, Gotakibono said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqStTnvBBK8

 

Cuphead's recent expolit has caused the ultra rarity of its platinum to decrease tenfold over one week. But is it considered a hack or cheating? And should anyone even care about how others get their trophies? it's a pretty tricky question that me and a friend stupidly try to discuss.

 

 

 

Are you guys for real?!

Have you been following the rarity of the game? It has been decreasing rarity since its release, it wasn't Ultra Rare after 3 days.

Someone posted an exploit last saturday (if I recall correctly, I checked the rarity and it was around 16%). So, no, whatever you're saying in the video is absolutely wrong.

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by TurtlePM

[AJ_Radio]

My god you guys, calm down.

 

This is what happened to the two threads in the Fall Guys subforum that ended up getting locked because of 'trophy hunting drama'. I guess what someone thinks of trophies is different for someone else, therefore instead of agreeing to disagree we fight over it.

 

4 hours ago, Gotakibono said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqStTnvBBK8

 

Cuphead's recent expolit has caused the ultra rarity of its platinum to decrease tenfold over one week. But is it considered a hack or cheating? And should anyone even care about how others get their trophies? it's a pretty tricky question that me and a friend stupidly try to discuss.

 

 

 

The fact that you don't even have the game on your trophy account just tells me I can't really take you guys seriously when you say Cuphead has an ultra rare platinum. Unless you are looking at PSN numbers that Sony lists that show much of everything being ultra rare because trophy hunting is still a niche hobby.

 

Even if you guys are half admitting to joking about this whole thing, I can't say this is worth a grain of salt.

 

Fun original indie game, but you definitely dropped the ball a bit here.

[TrophyChief]

Nice video guys. I personally think some trophy hunters recognize that earning a Plat is much easier these days than days past so they now shift and focus their attention to increasing their trophy rarity stats and/or completion percentage and/or being the first or fastest achiever on the leaderboard. We all enjoy gaming and as gamers we find joy in challenging ourselves and pushing our gaming skills to the next level.

 

Honestly, I appreciate those who share exploits and find creative ways in achieving something easier and faster. Most I find their motivation in doing so is to help fellow gamers out and a chance to give back to the community. That is why trophy guides are largely made - to help. Ultimately, it is up to the gamer if he/she decides to use the help or utilize an exploit.

 

Nice discussion. Keep it up!

[Thrillhelm]

While I like the concept of the video, I disagree with the content.

 

Cuphead wasn't an ultra-rare platinum to begin with, since there were so many guides and tips for it since the Xbox1 release.

 

Then if the devs mess up and let you autopop trophies in coop its not the players fault. It's still a hard game, it's just not a hard platinum anymore.

 

And somehow the discussion warps into Ratalaika bashing and those who make good use of those games.

 

It would be unethical to hack trophies, but there is no obligation to stop playing certain games for platinums just because parts of a community disagree with them. Also the shunned games from Ratalaika and Eastasiasoft are additions, you can still play other games.

 

I am pretty sure since this happens a lot lately that someone will take a look in my profile and say "oh you play all these easy platinum games) and overlook that I took my time to platinum Days Gone, AC2 twice and Skyrim this year, some for having nice milestones.

I don't care if someone is mad for the games I play, a month before I didnt even know Ratalaika bashing was even a thing.

 

Don't come up with ethics. Trophy hunters do not need gatekeepers who decide which trophies are good or bad. The community is too toxic already.

[GiveMeWin]

6 hours ago, TurtlePM said:

 

Are you guys for real?!

Have you been following the rarity of the game? It has been decreasing rarity since its release, it wasn't Ultra Rare after 3 days.

Someone posted an exploit last saturday (if I recall correctly, I checked the rarity and it was around 16%). So, no, whatever you're saying in the video is absolutely wrong.

 

Actually I posted it 24 hours after release, but nobody seem to care.

It took me on and off 4 weeks to complete legit, I say cash well spent.

 

Fun vid. I see you say 'stupidly discuss', if you like doing something, be proud of it. You should care about other people's input or suggestions, but only so much.

Edited August 27, 2020 by GiveMeWin

[N1NJ4_V4MP1R3]

46 minutes ago, Thrillhelm said:

While I like the concept of the video, I disagree with the content.

 

Cuphead wasn't an ultra-rare platinum to begin with, since there were so many guides and tips for it since the Xbox1 release.

 

Then if the devs mess up and let you autopop trophies in coop its not the players fault. It's still a hard game, it's just not a hard platinum anymore.

 

And somehow the discussion warps into Ratalaika bashing and those who make good use of those games.

 

It would be unethical to hack trophies, but there is no obligation to stop playing certain games for platinums just because parts of a community disagree with them. Also the shunned games from Ratalaika and Eastasiasoft are additions, you can still play other games.

 

I am pretty sure since this happens a lot lately that someone will take a look in my profile and say "oh you play all these easy platinum games) and overlook that I took my time to platinum Days Gone, AC2 twice and Skyrim this year, some for having nice milestones.

I don't care if someone is mad for the games I play, a month before I didnt even know Ratalaika bashing was even a thing.

 

Don't come up with ethics. Trophy hunters do not need gatekeepers who decide which trophies are good or bad. The community is too toxic already.

Thanks for the comment! 
 

I hope it didn’t come across as bashing, that definitely wasn’t our intention. I personally have plenty of ‘easy’ games on my list too, games that I’ve really enjoyed. 
 

Really our point wasn’t that it’s bad to play easy games, more that the concept of a ‘platinum’ has fundamentally changed with developers releasing games that are objectively easy to platinum, when Sony’s position used to be against this.

 

The ethics bit was purely tongue and cheek regarding Cuphead. The discussion isn’t solely about Cuphead either, it’s about any game that is difficult that is subsequently exploited. Take a game like Super Meat Boy or CofND and imagine if an exploit was found that made it easy to platinum that game. 

24 minutes ago, GiveMeWin said:

Actually I posted it 24 hours after release, but nobody seem to care.

It took me on and off 4 weeks to complete legit, I say cash well spent.

 

Fun vid. I see you say 'stupidly discuss', if you like doing something, be proud of it. You should care about other people's input or suggestions, but only so much.

Thanks for the comment, we definitely had a good time recording it. We’re both passionate about trophies so getting to talk about them at length is a lot of fun.

 

It’s crazy that you noticed that exploit way before the other post got popular!

[N1NJ4_V4MP1R3]

7 hours ago, TurtlePM said:

 

Are you guys for real?!

Have you been following the rarity of the game? It has been decreasing rarity since its release, it wasn't Ultra Rare after 3 days.

Someone posted an exploit last saturday (if I recall correctly, I checked the rarity and it was around 16%). So, no, whatever you're saying in the video is absolutely wrong.

 

Definitely for real  I’ll hold my hands up and say that we were off on the rarity of the trophy but the core point stands, Cuphead is seen as an objectively ‘hard’ game and any exploit will dilute the rarity.  As is already evident in this thread, the exploit was noticed a lot earlier than the main post so we can’t pinpoint exactly how it has affected rarity. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by N1NJ4_V4MP1R3

[AJ_Radio]

4 hours ago, Thrillhelm said:

Don't come up with ethics. Trophy hunters do not need gatekeepers who decide which trophies are good or bad. The community is too toxic already.

 

There is a good wall of text I can write about this specific tidbit here but I won't because that will just be wasting my time.

 

Whether by good design or bad design, you can't dispute that the older games were harder than today's games.

 

We have hit a point now where we think of stuff like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune as being too hard and not accessible enough. Not really a hard game at all unless you were going for Brutal difficulty. A lot of games from 2008 - 2010 if they were to come out today would of had their trophy lists tweaked to where they would be a lot easier. As such, the culture of trophy hunting has changed.

 

I have issues when people jump on something like Sekiro for being hard and not accessible enough. Anybody who is a Souls veteran should have a pretty good idea in how to play the game, as the same company made Sekiro and it borrows a lot from past Souls games.

 

The entire thread regarding the Infallible trophy in Fall Guys was just a bunch of guys complaining about something that they felt was going to lock them out of a platinum. A multiplayer only battle royale game that was meant to play with others and have a good time.

 

I can definitely understand those being upset with the Hollow Knight exploit and the Cuphead exploit. An exploit suddenly makes the game several times easier. Finding a loophole and an exploit is pretty much the procedure. It is what it is.

 

While I can bash all day long, I think it's safe to say that both sides are guilty. Neither side has made a proper debate on trophy hunting without devolving into flame wars and arguments. That is why this is a toxic community, people can't agree to disagree and just walk away.

[Thrillhelm]

If an ultra-hard game has easy trophies or gets an exploit (since a community is good for finding those) so be it, do not shed a tear because all of a sudden Super Meat Boy etc isn't an ultra-rare platinum anymore. There are plenty other games that have rare platinums, if you hunt those you need to adapt anyways.

 

However, people forget that nowadays there are far more games released than back in PS3 times. Back then there has been a variety of difficulties to get a platinum. For example, Terminator Salvation was said to be one the easiest platinums back then in 2010, and games like Dante's Inferno or Burnout Paradise were said to be easy too. Occasionally, we had games like Megamind or Hannah Montana, or even short indie games like Spare Parts that coud be done in a day. What we also had back then (early 2010s) were insanely difficult platinums, the infamous Wipeout HD, Lost Planet 2 or to some degree Killzone 2. Even LittleBigPlanet was said to be insanely difficult. 

We played those games because they were available.

 

And that continued when all these Japanese Visual Novels were released. They didn't break the system of trophy hunting. If you wanted to stay on top of any leaderboard then these games were your way to go.

 

With the release of the Vita you could even get two platinums for the price of one - Sound Shapes (even more), Sly 4 and Motorstorm RC. People worried but there was no real reason to.

 

Now with the PS4 we have such a large number of games available, that even the Ratalaika games make a small part, and even with their stacking trophy lists. That doesn't mean difficult games died out, it's just that AAA titles have been made more accessable than ever before. Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, Days Gone, The Last Of Us 2, now Ghost of Tsushima -all these games have doable trophies. The times for hardcore platinums in AAA titles is coming to an end, and that's fine with me.

Take a look at Undertale. Nobody will say this is a bad game, but for the platinum you do not have to finish the game at all, no matter if it is a pacifist or genocide run. You do not get to see the real final boss at all - yet somehow there were no complaints about that.

 

Again, these games are available so we play them. I am tired of any elitist thinking in the trophy hunting community. If you are a completionist so be it, same goes for people looking for milestones, hard platinums or simply a large pile of trophies in general. If Mediatonic hadn't been bashing trophy hunters (the Infallible trophy just to piss people off) I would not even know now that the large chunk of easy platinums is that much a problem to some site users here.

[N1NJ4_V4MP1R3]

3 hours ago, Spaz said:

Neither side has made a proper debate on trophy hunting without devolving into flame wars and arguments. That is why this is a toxic community, people can't agree to disagree and just walk away.

Putting aside how successfully we did it (arguably not successful at all ) the main reason behind our video was to have a good discussion about this topic and put forward both sides, using Cuphead as a recent example. 
 

Our conclusion is one I stick to, do whatever gives you the most personal satisfaction. Ultimately, and maybe unfortunately, in real life no one is going to care how many or which specific platinums we have. Just ask my wife