Proposition of adjusted trophy calculation

[lucask001]

Hello trophy hunters !

 

We all know that the perceived value of trophies has dropped drastically because of the explosion of too easy and above all too fast platinums.

I'm convinced that we need all kind of games and we need easy platinums too but.... today....  it's getting out of hand.

I think that a leading site like PSNprofiles should offer an adjusted ranking that gives a healthy value to the trophies.

 

Here is an idea of an adjustment system that could create a new leaderboard bringing a strong added value to our hunting world :-)

 

% rarity PSNP / Ratio to be applied to the normal trophy value / explanation
95-100% : 0,01 - zero value trophy
90-95% : 0,1 - extremely low value trophy
80-90% : 0,2 - very low value trophy
70-80% : 0,4 - low value trophy
60-70% : 0,7 - common value trophy
40-60% : 1 - Normal value trophy
20-40% : 1,5 - relatively high value trophy
10-20% : 2 - high value trophy
5-10% : 5 - very high value trophy
1-5% : 10 - extremely high value trophy
0-1% : 50 - prestige value trophy

Exemple :
A bronze trophy with 85% rarity would have 15x0,2=  3 points value only.
On the contrary a bronze trophy with 2% rarity would have 15x10 = 150 points value.
Obviously it has to be applied to each king of trophy, including platinums.

 

As a result, tha whole game like Jack N' Jill DX would value only 12,9 points and I think it's fair, it can be achieved in 15 min....

On the contrary hard game would recover a high value.
That system would clearly give back a fair value to our trophies and would create an interesting leaderboard.

 

I wish you all nice platinums

Cheers

LucasK001

 

[Squirlruler]

You are looking for a rarity leaderboard.

 

[Leenewbe]

psntl

[lucask001]

Yes I know PSNTL offers such a ranking but I don't know how it is calculated.

I just think about mathematical ratios that best adapt to today's reality :-)

[Lezonidas]

21 minutes ago, lucask001 said:

Hello trophy hunters !

 

We all know that the perceived value of trophies has dropped drastically because of the explosion of too easy and above all too fast platinums.

I'm convinced that we need all kind of games and we need easy platinums too but.... today....  it's getting out of hand.

I think that a leading site like PSNprofiles should offer an adjusted ranking that gives a healthy value to the trophies.

 

Here is an idea of an adjustment system that could create a new leaderboard bringing a strong added value to our hunting world :-)

 

% rarity PSNP / Ratio to be applied to the normal trophy value / explanation
95-100% : 0,01 - zero value trophy
90-95% : 0,1 - extremely low value trophy
80-90% : 0,2 - very low value trophy
70-80% : 0,4 - low value trophy
60-70% : 0,7 - common value trophy
40-60% : 1 - Normal value trophy
20-40% : 1,5 - relatively high value trophy
10-20% : 2 - high value trophy
5-10% : 5 - very high value trophy
1-5% : 10 - extremely high value trophy
0-1% : 50 - prestige value trophy

Exemple :
A bronze trophy with 85% rarity would have 15x0,2=  3 points value only.
On the contrary a bronze trophy with 2% rarity would have 15x10 = 150 points value.
Obviously it has to be applied to each king of trophy, including platinums.

 

As a result, tha whole game like Jack N' Jill DX would value only 12,9 points and I think it's fair, it can be achieved in 15 min....

On the contrary hard game would recover a high value.
That system would clearly give back a fair value to our trophies and would create an interesting leaderboard.

 

I wish you all nice platinums

Cheers

LucasK001

 

There is an easier way:

An option to not count common trophies (>50%) and problem solved. All the easy trophies and platinums are gone.

[lucask001]

?

That would be too drastic, all trophies should have a value.

In my proposition a whole very easy game is worth around a bronze trophy, that sounds fair to me ?

[Helyx]

16 minutes ago, lucask001 said:

all trophies should have a value

 

Zero is a value.

[Joe Dubz]

I very much like this idea. I spent a while chasing the EZPZ trophies, but lately have been focusing more on UR's, or just Rare trophies in general. It would be interesting to see where I stand in that regard.

 

With that being said, unfortunately this idea has been kicked around for years on this site (see Rarity Leaderboard thread started in 2017 that someone shared above) and nothing has yet come of it!

[Pottercito_]

We should have a main leaderboard in that way, but also the traditional leaderboard can remain. But we need a rarity leaderboard to bring back the true value of trophies.

[Yuber6969]

I agree that platinum rarity should affect ranking. It's a nauseating feeling getting a really difficult platinum like P4AU or a really grindy one like Super Bomberman R, then seeing someone with multiple stacks of My Name is Mayo.

[lucask001]

Thx for your inputs..... unfortunately it looks like psnprofiles is not willing to do it

[MMDE]

1 hour ago, lucask001 said:

Thx for your inputs..... unfortunately it looks like psnprofiles is not willing to do it

 

Nah, but I don't think it will happen with the numbers you suggested. If you wanna contribute, you could read the stuff linked in the very first reply, especially the latter posts. Sly is willing to do it, we just need to agree upon something we're all happy with.

 

I think a lot of people don't want "common" trophies to be worth anything on a rarity leaderboard. In other words trophies greater than 50% shouldn't count. Also, the really extreme % should count way more than 10%. You're saying a 0-1% is worth 10x 9.9%, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you're valuing rarity. I tried to write a simple math function to calculate something fair in the previous thread. I never did reveal public how I arrived at the numbers, but it's some exponential stuff with some "clever" trickery of numbers to push the values into the given range and have the correct max value and cut-off point.

Edited February 3, 2021 by MMDE

[Frontzie]

TT do something similar with their "Site Ratio".

[PrinceOfPeace]

On 2/1/2021 at 0:38 PM, Lezonidas said:

There is an easier way:

An option to not count common trophies (>50%) and problem solved. All the easy trophies and platinums are gone.

 

If you did this, you'd also have to make sure there is a way for autopopped trophies to not count or any platinum that was earned by means of autopopping any other trophies. Otherwise, it would totally defeat the entire purpose of the leaderboard.

[Han_the_Dragon]

If something like this would be implemented, first "someone" would need to address the multi-lists first. 

 

As it stands a trophy in a US version could be worth X, then the same trophy in EU could be worth Y, then on Japan would be worth Z. 

 

So, now you would have a leaderboard where the same TROPHY is worth a different value based on the version that you played... That's just silly and 1000x worse than the actual regular leaderboard. 

 

Take Redout for example, the JPN platinum is 4.46%, the US platinum is 3.31%, and the EU platinum is 10.79%. 

 

So, an EU player is penalized in the leaderboard, simply because the people in his region play more this kind of games and as a consequence get more platinum in it, driving the % up?  (this is just an example, there are way to many cases like this, and usually the trophy lists with an exceptionally higher rarity are the Asian/Japanese ones, simply due to the fact that this site demographic is mainly westerner and the people that import those games are more likely to platinum them than not). 

 

There's way to many particularities to make a straight forward leaderboard with the intention to replace the current one, being the biggest problem actually how Sony themselves have been and are managing Trophy lists, with endless stacks, and now yet AGAIN promoting people to buy games to Auto-unlock trophies, with the PS4-PS5 stuff, making games that take some work to get the platinum end with high rarities, just because of auto-unclock (and when it's not the full platinum, it's a significant number of trophies, that by themselves, increase the average rarity of the total trophy list). 

 

I always liked the rarity leaderboard idea as a side thing, but turning it into a more central one, it's just to difficult to not favour one region over another. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Han_the_Dragon

[JohnCenaSong-]

So... TrueTrophies ratio system?

[lucask001]

Thx for your replies ! Very interesting..... 

I think that a perfect system can not exist so we need find a kind of balanced calculation.

i don’t think excluding all common trophies would be a solution, if you do that it would be a “rarity leaderboard” and not a weighted one. All trophies should have a minimum value even if it’s very small. 
my proposal is probably supposing too much calculations and a simplier one would be probably more feasible  ?

[Guest]

On 3/2/2021 at 5:22 AM, JohnCenaSong- said:

So... TrueTrophies ratio system?

Eh, TT has a great system, but it can be easily exploited, you only need 2 ratalaika games (so a stack)  and you got in less than an hour, the same point a long game like Final Fantasy 10 may give you.

[That1Estonian]

how about just a point multiplier based on rarity, where common trophies have no multiplier?

[lucask001]

It’s also a good idea and probably easier to implement ?

[janzor88]

I think we all can agree that the leaderboard over the last many years, has become inflated and worthless due to all the shovelware being released and all the 10-60 minute stacks.

There are mulitple ways to address this problem.
One of the solutions could be to only give one full set of points, per game.

For example: you like to play Ratalaika games? Fine, but you only get points for the first game and not more points for the PS3/PS4/Vita/EU/NA stacks.

 

We can clearly see that this community is big enough to incentivize companies to act in a specific ways.

The publisher Ratalika is constantly releasing shovelware, as they can see that there is a huge market in trophy hunters who are buying all their games to climb the leaderboards.
Making a cap around <95% for platinums to give points, would stop trophy hunters purchasing their games just for easy platinums. If people really think their games are about quality over quantity, they can still keep buying them.

 

Makes no sense that you can spend a few days to obtain a couple hundred platinum trophies, and get a really high leaderboard placement over people trying to advance for years.
And all the autopopping on PS4/PS5 is absolutely ridicolous.

Can we do something about this inflation, in a simple way?

[DaivRules]

13 minutes ago, janzor88 said:

Can we do something about this inflation, in a simple way?

I think the most simple way would be for this site to stay the same leaderboard it’s always been (most points) and someone somewhere else can make the arbitrary leaderboards somewhere else. There’s going to have to be several variations to pacify all the niche eliminations once people get started because it’s going to become a slippery slope of eliminating this and that for this and that justification. 

[Dr_Mayus]

4 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

I think the most simple way would be for this site to stay the same leaderboard it’s always been (most points) and someone somewhere else can make the arbitrary leaderboards somewhere else. There’s going to have to be several variations to pacify all the niche eliminations once people get started because it’s going to become a slippery slope of eliminating this and that for this and that justification. 

You will never satisify everyone and anything Sly comes up with will still piss people off.

 

Listen, the LB is based on the points Sony gave trophies...they all should count. If you want to challenge yourself join some of the groups on this forum. Plat the Ultra Rare Alphabet, shoot for 90% completion, try to plat all the games in a series...AND STOP MAKING THREADS ABOUT A RARITY LEADERBOARD. Like seriously is my EYEPet plat really worth more than my Velocity Ultra plat? 

 

Getting involved in groups of similar trophy hunters will be more fun than seeing your name on a leaderboard...I guarantee that.

[janzor88]

42 minutes ago, DaivRules said:

I think the most simple way would be for this site to stay the same leaderboard it’s always been (most points) and someone somewhere else can make the arbitrary leaderboards somewhere else. There’s going to have to be several variations to pacify all the niche eliminations once people get started because it’s going to become a slippery slope of eliminating this and that for this and that justification. 

 

No need to avoid progress "just because".

When leaderboards came out on this site, platinum shovelware didn't exist with 4-7 stacks for a single game which take few minutes to complete.
There are no niche eliminations, and you are just making it more complicated than it is. How does it make sense that you can complete a game on one system, and autopop a whole new trophly list on 1-2 different systems without even playing the game?
Then switch region and repeat the same process.

 

31 minutes ago, Dr_Mayus said:

You will never satisify everyone and anything Sly comes up with will still piss people off.

 

Listen, the LB is based on the points Sony gave trophies...they all should count. If you want to challenge yourself join some of the groups on this forum. Plat the Ultra Rare Alphabet, shoot for 90% completion, try to plat all the games in a series...AND STOP MAKING THREADS ABOUT A RARITY LEADERBOARD. Like seriously is my EYEPet plat really worth more than my Velocity Ultra plat? 

 

Getting involved in groups of similar trophy hunters will be more fun than seeing your name on a leaderboard...I guarantee that.

 

The leaderboars are already regulated in different ways, which can be improved.
With your logic, we can also allow cheaters on the leaderboards. At least they spent more time hacking their games, than just autopopping dozens of games not even playing them.

1 unique game = 1 set of trophies. It dosn't matter how easy or how hard the game is, with this system.

[DaivRules]

9 minutes ago, janzor88 said:

No need to avoid progress "just because".

When leaderboards came out on this site, platinum shovelware didn't exist with 4-7 stacks for a single game which take few minutes to complete.
There are no niche eliminations, and you are just making it more complicated than it is.

This site has adapted as things have changed in the world of trophies, it seems that you’re the one objecting to progress and looking to

impede the changes that are already here. The leaderboard here has a specific purpose and to say it’s “just because” is a straw man and is over simplifying reality. 
 

Every elimination to the leaderboard which has always only been “points awarded by Sony’s trophy system” is a niche elimination. Stacks, rarities, publishers, time to completion... each is arbitrary and niche. There will always be another challenge to eliminate another thing and another thing and there will never be consensus because of the arbitrary nature of the custom leaderboards people are looking for.