EA joins Sony in call for inclusivity

[Rozalia1]

5 minutes ago, Slava said:

Did that happen at Bungie and Insomniac or other studios known for making statements about this? I haven't seen.

 

As for in or outside of work, sure. Although, wouldn't Twitter crowd keep track of who said what online anyway? 

 

Bungie is well known for being in lockstep on these matters, likely as a result of long term weeding out of anyone who doesn't "fit the culture".

 

If you are referring to a worker investigating his fellow workers for wrong think then obviously they are free to. They can't obviously (openly) act on it. If you mean outside people, they don't matter if management has decided that you can take whatever side.

 

13 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I'm not sure why you would bring that up, as if my point about demographics would somehow be punctured if I said "White and Asian Men" 

 

I mean - fair enough, point conceded I suppose, Japanese men made up a large portion of what I colloquially referred to as "White Men" but from a demographic and socio-political view standpoint, does that really make a difference?

My point (which is hardly inflammatory in any way, to either side) remains the same 

 

Could you make it again then please? Just so I'm clear on what it is. The bad example (you recognise this) of... wasn't that an "outlaw" game anyway? And all the quick posting and back and forth has me struggling. I do understand the idea that White == Japanese as both were the dominant demographic at the time yes, but I had no way of knowing that from what you were saying.

 

Just now, BrandedBerserk said:

I'm sorry but what oppression exactly?People need to stop with all these false battles they got going on in their heads and live some more if you think you're oppressed living in a free country with opportunities that the less unfortunate would die for. 

 

I too would like to hear what oppression is being suffered when companies tell workers to be nice to each other and promote their politics on their own time.

 

3 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Now consider how much more mentally unhealthy it is to actually have to deal with that shit full time.

 

 

Yes, I'm queer, I've been homeless, I struggle with (and often fail) affording healthcare, and I've faced severe (non-sexual) abuse by christians. Do you have a point except that the realities of people such as myself are mere distant hypotheticals to you?

 

 

Perhaps not, however it is one thing to simply take breaks for the sake of your mental health, and it is another thing entirely to berate marginalized people talking about their issues because they're not doing it right. Which is what you've been doing in this thread, at least for the last few pages. If you were nearly as much of an ally as you keep repeatedly claiming, your participation in this thread would very likely consist of more than merely explaining systemic discrimination you don't understand to marginalized people and complaining about how you don't like having to see queer issues represented all the time.

 

Like seriously, what the fuck kind of take is "actually, marginalized people aren't discriminated against because it's technically illegal to do so, and also our justice system has never exerted bias and handles all crimes with equal fervor." Why the fuck do you think that's more worth saying than, I dunno, dealing with the dickhead who thinks trans people showing up in TV shows means that oppression doesn't exist?

 

I would like to remind you that the thread was on the matter of EA calling for civility among workers due to the issue of Abortion. Trans never featured beyond 2 of the news sources trying to juice up their headlines.

 

Why do you think that your identity makes you unquestionable on these matters? Is it an impossible thought that someone belonging to a group can make an absolutely terrible case for their cause and hurt it? People telling you to stop attacking anyone and everyone who doesn't instantly kowtow to everything you believe aren't trying to talk down to you, they're trying to help you not come off so negatively.

 

[DrBloodmoney]

19 minutes ago, objectioner said:

 

Not trying to misrepresent you, but lumping 'white' and 'Japanese' together under the umbrella of just 'white' comes across incredibly racist.

 

Fair enough - I was trying to use "white male" as a taste based demographic, rather than a racial one, but point conceded - I've edited my original post and accept your point.

 

I guess I've made a faux pas while trying to take it down a notch, I'll just fuck off and leave y'all to it then - good intentions or not, I'm probably too old to have relevance in this debate anyways ?

Edited May 26, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[czDante92]

1 minute ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

You've spent the whole thread spouting transphobic bullshit, my dude. Why do you think your mind is worth changing?

What if I'll have trans kid one day? Maybe if you'd change my mind now I wouldn't kick him out of the house in the future. I'll be fine either way but my trans child will suffer the consequences of your actions here.

[Gueeds]

I’d rather corporations stay out of politics. No matter the issue or the stance taken, you are going to upset half of your customers one way or the other.
 

Was a lot better when they were just soulless faceless organizations that over advertised to us. 

[KimmysGotGame]

1 minute ago, czDante92 said:

What if I'll have trans kid one day? Maybe if you'd change my mind now I wouldn't kick him out of the house in the future. I'll be fine either way but my trans child will suffer the consequences of your actions here.

My brother in Christ if the actions of one human on the internet cause you to forsake your child, perhaps you were just looking for a reason do so.

[Darling Baphomet]

2 minutes ago, Alayaes said:

The quote you said about me claiming that marginalized people aren't discriminated against is intellectually dishonest and purposely misguided. I never made such a claim. I pointed out that the laws and legislation are already in place. I never claimed that the people executing said legislation were without bias or fault. That's a narrative you spun out of anger and frustration.

 

Okay. Here is something you wrote in response to someone detailing what rights queer people lack. This is you arguing with them.

 

1 hour ago, Alayaes said:

Since 2016, the supreme court has ruled it unconstitutional to have legislation preventing adoption within same-sex marriages. They therefore now have the same rights as any other couple in all 50 states. What you're describing is the trouble some private adoption agencies might give them based on their personal beliefs. Again, we should continue to strive for improvement, but the rights are in place. Societal roadblocks still exist, of course.

 

Trans people can join the military and have been able to since 2021. In slightly more detail, the ruling states that access to the military in one's self-identified gender provided all appropriate standards are met.

 

The definition of what a hate crime is can be subjective to many, and legislation cannot deal with subjectivity. However, any criminal activity that is against the law, in all 50 states, is handled to the fullest extent of the law equally across the board. While said violence may occur more often in certain subcultures or minorities, that is effectively a different issue to tackle and investigate. Requesting for separate legislation to punish those committing hate crimes on the basis of gender identity/sexual orientation would be to request exceptions to the law. That cannot happen. Why can't it just be prosecuted and handled as the crime itself? If you assault someone, should you receive a harsher punishment because you assaulted a black woman? Should you receive more years in prison if you assault someone that is gay? What if you didn't even know? Those waters are too muddy for easy solutions.

 

I understand that trans people receive more harassment and I disagree with them receiving that, of course. However, that is once again a societal problem. Not a rights problem.

 

The government can only do so much. The people have to do the rest. The court of the public opinion cannot be so easily legislated because it doesn't require compliance.

 

And kudos for resorting to "you're being emotional!!!"

[Breakingthegreen]

1 minute ago, czDante92 said:

What if I'll have trans kid one day? Maybe if you'd change my mind now I wouldn't kick him out of the house in the future. I'll be fine either way but my trans child will suffer the consequences of your actions here.

Please don't plan to neglect your child if they turn out not how you want them too, it's messed up to even suggest it's a possibility. 

[NewVegasNick]

3 minutes ago, czDante92 said:

What if I'll have trans kid one day? Maybe if you'd change my mind now I wouldn't kick him out of the house in the future. I'll be fine either way but my trans child will suffer the consequences of your actions here.

 

holding my hypothetical trans child hostage to own the libs

[Darling Baphomet]

4 minutes ago, czDante92 said:

What if I'll have trans kid one day? Maybe if you'd change my mind now I wouldn't kick him out of the house in the future. I'll be fine either way but my trans child will suffer the consequences of your actions here.

 

Hopefully by then we'll have better laws to protect trans children from child abusers.

[Alayaes]

11 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

You've spent the whole thread spouting transphobic bullshit, my dude. Why do you think your mind is worth changing?

If you believe that, is that not exactly the demographic you're supposed to win over? Or is this "fight" against injustice just a circle-jerk among those that already have the same opinion anyway? Staying in your echo chambers does not equal fighting for a cause.

 

Through meaningful debate, you could actually learn a thing or two about his perspective and perhaps he could learn from you. I believe his whole point has been that the type of activism some people display actually hurts the very cause they're supporting.

 

If you show aggression to those with an opposing opinion you'll never win any ground. You'll just end up losing more in the end. Back in the safety of your comfortable echo chamber, you'll feel as if you've accomplished something, but in reality, all you've done is strengthened the resolve of those who are 'against' you.

 

You can't reason with people if their initial opinion never originated from reason to begin with. If you portray yourself as such, people give up on you as fast as you've given up on them.

4 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Okay. Here is something you wrote in response to someone detailing what rights queer people lack. This is you arguing with them.

 

 

And kudos for resorting to "you're being emotional!!!"

Rights do not equal proper treatment. Your rights are there. The execution thereof and your social standing/treatment is another matter, one which we might not disagree with nearly as much as you're implying. If you feel like I could've worded that better then I apologize for the confusion. My opinion stands. You can't legislate something like "it's illegal to hurt a trans person". You can only legislate "it's illegal to hurt a person". Laws have to cover all citizens, not just a small percentage. The execution thereof is then a public issue within society, one that cannot be more legislated than it already is.

 

And yes, you're being emotional with your wording. If you feel otherwise, please elaborate.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Alayaes

[Boorish]

8 minutes ago, czDante92 said:

What if I'll have trans kid one day? Maybe if you'd change my mind now I wouldn't kick him out of the house in the future. I'll be fine either way but my trans child will suffer the consequences of your actions here.

Please don't have children.

[Fr_0zt]

"Nike doesn't give a fuck about black people". 

[temp-910724]

28 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Obviously that's an extreme example, played for laughs...

... but my point was that that game would never be created in a climate where anyone expected the audience of games to be anything but White Men.

 

And while I'm not indifferent to the point you were making, I do think it's pretty ridiculous to suggest games 40 years ago were aimed at anything but white men, since we know fine well that they made up such a massive block of the demographic at that point, as to render virtually all other demographics within that audience statistically obsolete.

 

I say that as one of them.

 

Whether you can identify specific elements of individual games from back then that were obviously aimed solely at while males is irrelevant - virtually the whole audience was white and male at that point, and so by definition all games were aimed at white men, whether that's obvious from the content or not.

 

The point isn't that that was bad - industries have to cater to their audience - but that status quo in terms of product manufacture actually outlasted its term as a commercial reality by quite some margin. There was a fairly long period of time where more and more other demographics were entering the market for games, but the industry simply wasn't acknowledging them, or catering to them in the mainstream - only around the fringes - and in the case of gay / transgender, the very extreme fringes.

 

It's the quick-snap back to reality as that bubble burst, and suddenly the whole commercial audience is getting a slice of the pie that seems to have given some of the old-guard whiplash. That whiplash is understandable to a certain extent - change can be jarring, even to those not particularly bigoted against the audience it caters to - but it also seems to have blinded them a little, and made them more hostile than they need to act, or should seem, (or probably even do actually feel).

 

Most still seem to fail to acknowledge that even now, the dominant playable character in videogames is the straight white male.

It just isn't the only playable character now.

How did my shit post turn into an intelligent reply

 

I don't think games that were a few pixels really had much thought into the race of the people playing. The games from the 40s at least seemed to mostly be just about was it fun to play and that doesn't look at race or sex. Not to mention Ms Pac-Man was also released in 1982 which sold well, despite a female main character.

 

I also don't think because the main audience of something means it was made for them. I think for the most part games don't really see race, maybe I'm just uninformed but I don't really know if minorities tend to like a certain game so i will refer to music. 

 

If Queen is mainly listened to by white people, I just don't think their music was made for white people, it's just how it is. In the same way a black rapper than is mostly listened to by blacks they didn't make their music for black people, it's just how it is. They made it because they thought it was a good piece of art regardless and I think it's reductive to the artist to say they were making it for a certain audience. 

 

I know I am now cherry picking, but GTA San Andreas released in 2004 with a very non-white main character and still did exceptionally well. So I really don't think the issue is this sort of bigotry that is being proclaimed. 

 

 

 

[Darling Baphomet]

1 minute ago, Alayaes said:

If you show aggression to those with an opposing opinion you'll never win any ground. You'll just end up losing more in the end. Back in the safety of your comfortable echo chamber, you'll feel as if you've accomplished something, but in reality, all you've done is strengthened the resolve of those who are 'against' you.

 

Yes, so you instead only show aggression to marginalized people who are expressing their opinions wrong, while asserting that bigots can't be held responsible for their actions and must be pampered like babies. You don't build solidarity with the right, you build solidarity against them. With that said, your behavior in this thread clearly demonstrates you're not nearly as progressive as you'd like to assert. In case you missed it:

 

43 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

Reminds me of a person I once knew who spent years trying to 'gently re-educate' an online Nazi, which not only produced no results whatsoever but resulted in her performing her own little bigotries like telling a black person said Nazi had repeatedly used slurs against (to say nothing of the shit they said about black people as a whole) that she should just try being polite and talking it out.

 

[Zephrese]

19 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

Hopefully by then we'll have better laws to protect trans children from child abusers.

 

While I agree with this - and just having better protection for children from abusers in general -, I'm pretty sure they themselves aren't going to disown their child for x reason.

 

Instead I think they're saying this under the context of if they were someone who might very well disown their own child, would not your actions further encourage them to?

I don't agree with the wording whatsoever even as just an implication or hypothetical, let alone a majority of what they've said here period.
But based off of what they've said previously, I don't believe they'd do such a thing because of a random person on the internet being disagreeable in their eyes.

 

Or at least I hope that's the case anyways. I don't know them personally, so I could be completely wrong. lmao Not defending that kind of behavior either way, however.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Zephrese

[Raidou Kuzunoha XIV]

I didn't really plan on posting in this thread again because, as expected, it's been derailed to hell and back (surprised it hasn't been locked yet).

 

And this is just as off-topic, but from skimming this thread I'm seeing a lot of accusations and assumptions made about people's stances and beliefs. I'm inclined to agree with those claiming that making accusations is not going to further your cause, because it isn't. I've been accused of many things myself that couldn't be further from the truth simply because I've already been neatly categorises into a certain box or portfolio someone has made for me. And as a result, it's only made me less inclined to bother even interacting with those with opposing or differing views. What's the point of trying to debate with someone who has seemingly already made up their mind about who I am and what I believe for me?

 

Many people that are not 100% in support of LGBT+ rights or other marginalised groups (even if they think they are) are not going to be convinced they should care if you point that out to them. Humans are highly emotional and many of us do not like critical introspection, and having to come to terms that the world is not perfect and maybe you're part of the reason (even if not directly) why other people suffer is not going to go over well with our cognitive dissonance.

 

Many of us are starry eyed and like to believe that the world is black and white when we're children. There's bad people and there's good people, and that's it, there's no shades of grey. Many of us do not like having this "easy" perception of the world shattered, especially when, again, we're told we may not actually be 100% wonderful people ourselves.

 

The truth of the matter is that the world is ugly and chaotic, and that scares a lot of people, especially people that have been lucky and privileged in some way in the circumstances of their birth. If you've been raised to believe the world is just and people who do bad things are different from you, and lurk in the shadows and aren't your neighbours, friends, siblings, colleagues, etc. then you should expect some pushback when you're told otherwise.

 

People have to come to terms with these things on their own. Some never will, and it's no one's job to change anyone's mind. I understand being passionate about this, I understand being angry - I've been told my whole life I'm lazy or stupid for being autistic, I've been told I'm "greedy" for being bisexual or not being taken seriously because I'm female and have been monogamous with a man for the past 7 years, etc. etc. Being shamed and degraded for immutable characteristics, and having your rights and humanity denied for it is one of the most tragic things a human can experience.

 

But conversely, I very nearly fell down the alt-right rabbit hole myself. Why? Because I also have privileges that made me blind to things; it never once occurred to me that plasters where meant to match my skin tone (white) for instance, this is something I never once thought about until it was pointed out to me, same as it is for many people that have never once had to think about their own circumstances in life. I'm also middle class and have never really experienced what it's like to be genuinely hungry, cold, etc. And you know what? Wanting to believe that minorities "create their own problems", or that "racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia/etc." are "already solved" and people are just "whining over nothing" is a lot easier than actually having to face the reality that we still live in a very cruel, unjust world.

 

As much as people may deny it, believing there's any kind of "agenda" behind there being more LGBT+ or POC characters in games, or not "wanting it shoved in our faces" are incredibly emotional and personal positions, which is why it's so hard to make people understand unless they're WILLING to understand. Trying to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into is a fruitless endeavour, it has to come from within. It's like not wanting to visit the doctor because you're afraid you might have cancer, but don't want to confirm it, and telling someone they indeed have cancer when they're not willing to accept that conclusion is often only going to make them retreat further into their safety net of their cognitive dissonance.

[Fr_0zt]

12 hours ago, Xugoshi said:

Can someone PLEASE explain to me how politics is profitable in video-games!? I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that these companies are so out of touch with reality that they don't realize that pandering to the 2% doesn't rake in the big cash! 

 

Search "ESG score" and you'll see what's really going on. 

[Alayaes]

7 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Yes, so you instead only show aggression to marginalized people who are expressing their opinions wrong, while asserting that bigots can't be held responsible for their actions and must be pampered like babies. You don't build solidarity with the right, you build solidarity against them. With that said, your behavior in this thread clearly demonstrates you're not nearly as progressive as you'd like to assert. In case you missed it:

 

 

What...?

 

I honestly don't think you're arguing in good faith here. You've put words in my mouth and you're now desperately trying to spin my words into a narrative you can be combative towards. I'm sure you have valid points in your mind, but you're not expressing them to the best of your ability, I think.

 

Instead of constantly twisting and manipulating my words, try to just stick to discussing your points instead. I'm willing to listen but not if you're going to just use our interaction as a battleground to cope with your deeper frustrations.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Alayaes

[GABAergic]

A great way to avoid controversy is to leave controversial political positions such as these out of games. Period.

 

Games are meant to be an enjoyable escape. For many years, but especially since 2015, were exposed to a constant barrage of endless attempts to drive wedges between people based on hot button, taboo topics. It's almost inescapable. Games provide that escape.

 

Thankfully games have largely flown under the radar in the world of political anger. We have games with protagonists and villains of all shapes, sizes, colors, and species. Gaming is, by definition, inclusive. There's literally something for everyone. You can't get more inclusive.

Honestly topics like abortion have no place in games, for or against.

 

If you need a reason to keep politics out of video games, just look at the infighting in threads like these.

 

Threads on this site are, by and large, peaceful and respectful. People in this world are, by and large, peaceful and respectful. That goes out the window 100% of the time when topics like this are brought up.

 

I can't think of a single scenario in a video game where abortion would be an appropriate story arc.

[Zephrese]

i'd be whoring out upvotes right now if I had 'em god damn it, gotta suffer through that upvote poverty gulag yo press f smh my head

Edited May 26, 2022 by Zephrese

[Darling Baphomet]

14 minutes ago, Alayaes said:

I honestly don't think you're arguing in good faith here. You've put words in my mouth and you're now desperately trying to spin my words into a narrative you can be combative towards. I'm sure you have valid points in your mind, but you're not expressing them to the best of your ability, I think.

 

You've spent the whole thread arguing with marginalized people and complaining about how representation in video games makes you upset, all while putting no effort into convincing the bigots in this thread who you're berating me for not wanting to convince. Your behavior speaks for itself.

[Alayaes]

8 minutes ago, Darling Baphomet said:

 

You've spent the whole thread arguing with marginalized people and complaining about how representation in video games makes you upset, all while putting no effort into convincing the bigots in this thread who you're berating me for not wanting to convince. Your behavior speaks for itself.

I don't know if I've argued with marginalized people? I argued with people who presented opinions. What group they represent is irrelevant to me. Your opinion on a subject doesn't suddenly become more or less valid because of what group you belong to.

 

I have not once claimed that representation makes me upset. Literally quite the opposite, in fact. My very first post stated that I was annoyed when companies come across as condescending in the pursuit of profits under the guise of social media inclusion posts. I believe they're disingenuous and served as distractions. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else?

 

The discussion between you and those you deem to be "bigots" is your problem. Just because I don't come to your defense doesn't mean I don't perhaps share your moral views in life. This is exactly part of the problem I've pointed out prior; if you're not actively fighting with me then you're against me. That alienates the vast majority of people who could actually be people that are on your side of history, but you're too blinded by anger to realize it. I personally don't see anything wrong with my behavior but I'll reflect on my posts just in case.

 

Don't label everyone who disagrees with you on one single issue a bigot. Browsing this thread, I honestly don't see a large number of bigots. Maybe some misguided replies here and there, but there isn't nearly enough information to be throwing around accusations like that.

 

Pro tip: people will dismiss you and your opinions if you immediately start labeling them with antagonistic titles at the drop of a hat.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Alayaes

[TJ_Solo]

17 hours ago, Elvick_ said:

Even if I agree with a political message pushed by a billion dollar corporation... I still don't want them to take a side. Just sell me your stupid products and shut up. They love to cry about whatever rights but then you make money in countries that completely contradict that claim they "care" about x issue.

 

 

The thing is, that billion dollar corporation is also a workplace. Seeing as exclusion and discrimination are highly illegal acts for employers in many countries it makes sense to take the side that is "legally correct". Outside of selling you a product they also need to attract and hire people to help facilitate the create and delivery of that product you buy.  The comments you read from them should be taken as statements for potential employees, not consumers or consumers own stances. The employeers need to be public and open. You don't and that's fine. 

[Infected Elite]

9 hours ago, Rozalia1 said:

 "There are three things you don't talk about: politics, religion, and money". Perhaps that common wisdom is making a comeback.

 

I think it needs to, You're right. Considering you can't use scientific evidence on a Christian without them spewing some bullshit from some book written by some random dude making it seem like they are always right. 

 

Politics have always and probably will always be controversial.  As for money, meh. Look at the biggest hustling going on with Christians. Asking for money, some so far as 10% of your pay. 

----------

 

But like, im fine with any representation in gaming. It doesn't bother me. It should be free range.

 

Times are changing, i dont care what nationality someone is, what their sexual orientation is, what they feel is what they feel. Let them be who they wish to be, and why shouldn't they be represented in some form in the gaming industry ?

 

Unfortunately most who have issue with this are Christians because its a "sin", or it isnt in the bible. Well, the bible aint all sugar and rainbows.

 

Accept people for who they are, game because you want to, avoid political agenda bullshit and just enjoy your life as best you can. 

[Jeanolt]

38 minutes ago, MercilessWaffle said:

I didn't really plan on posting in this thread again because, as expected, it's been derailed to hell and back (surprised it hasn't been locked yet).

 

And this is just as off-topic, but from skimming this thread I'm seeing a lot of accusations and assumptions made about people's stances and beliefs. I'm inclined to agree with those claiming that making accusations is not going to further your cause, because it isn't. I've been accused of many things myself that couldn't be further from the truth simply because I've already been neatly categorises into a certain box or portfolio someone has made for me. And as a result, it's only made me less inclined to bother even interacting with those with opposing or differing views. What's the point of trying to debate with someone who has seemingly already made up their mind about who I am and what I believe for me?

 

Many people that are not 100% in support of LGBT+ rights or other marginalised groups (even if they think they are) are not going to be convinced they should care if you point that out to them. Humans are highly emotional and many of us do not like critical introspection, and having to come to terms that the world is not perfect and maybe you're part of the reason (even if not directly) why other people suffer is not going to go over well with our cognitive dissonance.

 

Many of us are starry eyed and like to believe that the world is black and white when we're children. There's bad people and there's good people, and that's it, there's no shades of grey. Many of us do not like having this "easy" perception of the world shattered, especially when, again, we're told we may not actually be 100% wonderful people ourselves.

 

The truth of the matter is that the world is ugly and chaotic, and that scares a lot of people, especially people that have been lucky and privileged in some way in the circumstances of their birth. If you've been raised to believe the world is just and people who do bad things are different from you, and lurk in the shadows and aren't your neighbours, friends, siblings, colleagues, etc. then you should expect some pushback when you're told otherwise.

 

People have to come to terms with these things on their own. Some never will, and it's no one's job to change anyone's mind. I understand being passionate about this, I understand being angry - I've been told my whole life I'm lazy or stupid for being autistic, I've been told I'm "greedy" for being bisexual or not being taken seriously because I'm female and have been monogamous with a man for the past 7 years, etc. etc. Being shamed and degraded for immutable characteristics, and having your rights and humanity denied for it is one of the most tragic things a human can experience.

 

But conversely, I very nearly fell down the alt-right rabbit hole myself. Why? Because I also have privileges that made me blind to things; it never once occurred to me that plasters where meant to match my skin tone (white) for instance, this is something I never once thought about until it was pointed out to me, same as it is for many people that have never once had to think about their own circumstances in life. I'm also middle class and have never really experienced what it's like to be genuinely hungry, cold, etc. And you know what? Wanting to believe that minorities "create their own problems", or that "racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia/etc." are "already solved" and people are just "whining over nothing" is a lot easier than actually having to face the reality that we still live in a very cruel, unjust world.

 

As much as people may deny it, believing there's any kind of "agenda" behind there being more LGBT+ or POC characters in games, or not "wanting it shoved in our faces" are incredibly emotional and personal positions, which is why it's so hard to make people understand unless they're WILLING to understand. Trying to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into is a fruitless endeavour, it has to come from within. It's like not wanting to visit the doctor because you're afraid you might have cancer, but don't want to confirm it, and telling someone they indeed have cancer when they're not willing to accept that conclusion is often only going to make them retreat further into their safety net of their cognitive dissonance.

That's true. Like someone say in the thread before, a game isn't political except if you look at it in that way, like a child will never see FF7 as a game about the enviroment and the consequences of the human greed. They will only see the battles and the action parts.

I don't see the "agenda" in videogames because those issues aren't political to me. They aren't issues, is just people living its life. A gay character like Dina/Ellie (Tlou), in a videogame, can cause a lot of hate in close-minded people to the point of believing that, but I just see them as any other character. Sometimes people hide what they don't like under excuses, like we did when we were childs. 

I hope one day there will be no need to open this kind of threads.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Jeanoltt