Trophy Spam Issue

[Groudon199]

26 minutes ago, enaysoft said:

Someone once said "Oh I get some nice facts about Sausages while it's bouncing" so I'm getting something out of this game, as if that was a win for them and it proved us all wrong.

That's kinda clutching at straws, since that doesn't explain why you had to play the game on many stacks in the same hour, why not just play the same stack multiple times? Or if you loved sausages that much, google has way better info about sausages, and for free.

Which is why I specify the games themselves and not the trophy lists in my question. The first person I asked the question to gave the same response, along with the circular reasoning "the bump jump etc. games are just fun because that's what they are made for to be fun."

[ChenZheCHN]

Just curious.

 

Who decided Hatup a shovelware? It cannot be shown with shovelware hidden.

 

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/18971-hatup

https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/18972-hatup

 

It has only 2 stacks, and is from Ratalaika / EastAsiaSoft, not any known / blacklisted shovelware developers that make The Jumping [Foods] or The [Word] [Initial].

 

Where do you draw the line? How do you decide whether a game is shovelware or not? Is there any guideline?

Edited October 26, 2022 by ChenZheCHN

[EqualityEarth]

24 minutes ago, ChenZheCHN said:

Where do you draw the line? How do you decide whether a game is shovelware or not? Is there any guideline?

It could be a smarter system than we think. Probably something detecting the following things.

 

-mostly gold trophies

-banner art able to be designed/drawn by a child

-trophy stamps that have no variety or aesthetic, trophy descriptions that are all the same

 

As much as I like to know “everything that’s out there,” games should be held to some standard. And if they aren’t met, these “submissions” (I can’t bring myself to call everything on PSN a game at this point) to the network are liable to be excluded from displaying by default on this site (I cannot stop thinking about that recent update ?).

[You]

1 hour ago, ChenZheCHN said:

Where do you draw the line? How do you decide whether a game is shovelware or not? Is there any guideline

 

EqualityEarth already answered the question, but I think developers also need to look at their games and accept some responsibility of effort.

 

I mean just look at Hatup's trophy list "Level 1", "Level 3", Level 5", sure you might not have the technical ability yet to make a good indie game but if you can't even be arsed to make even a trophy list interesting, why should anyway take you seriously and not label you as shovelware.

 

I just looked at the game on youtube and well, I can't say it's a game worthy of note.

Honestly, there's a retro art style, I'm the first person to like retro games it's what I grew up with and like the most. But this is just low effort to make a quick sale.

If you're going to make a game like this, do something interesting, like "Thomas Is Alone"

 

No music, and the odd sound, graphics for a game that wouldn't look out of place for a PD game for a few pounds on a Commodore 64 or Atari ST. Does it take a very short of amount to platinum? Looks highly likely.

 

I think Hatup borderline qualfiies as a shovelware game and the decision to hide on this site was the correct one.

 

[edit] Ok so in other video it seems to have music.

Edited October 26, 2022 by enaysoft

[DrBloodmoney]

52 minutes ago, ChenZheCHN said:

Where do you draw the line? How do you decide whether a game is shovelware or not? Is there any guideline?

 

There isn't, but I did suggest there should be one, based on simple questions like these:

 

On 20/10/2022 at 3:26 PM, DrBloodmoney said:

I would suggest though, that the "is it a game?" question could very easily be defined using a set of very, very loose definition questions. For example:

 

 

• Is the player required to press more than one button on the controller, at specific times/rhythms/patterns etc?
• Is there a narrative that can be followed?
• Is it possible to "finish" the game (i.e. see credits) without unlocking all trophies?
• Is there any unique content/ interaction within the product, beyond static art?
• Is there a potential fail-state (game-over screen etc.)?
• Does the product feature any discernable "point of view" or message interpretive to the player?
• Can the player make any choice as to the outcome of the game, or affect the outcome?
• Is the game impossible to replicate using Microsoft Powerpoint, beyond tracking of a counter?
• Would a domestic animal (cat / dog/ canary etc,) if trained to interact with the controller, be unable to platinum it?

 

...where if the answer to ANY of the questions is "YES", then it would be classed as a "game", and only if EVERY answer was no, then it would be considered "software".

 

though obviously there would need to be some refinement of those to be used as anything broad.

 

For reference, according to this definition (and me!) that Hatup game would likely quality as a game, rather than "Shovelware" - but I do think that there will always be some games that need a second look, and this is maybe one of them? 

The GIT can't be expected to be infallible, or to know every game, after all!

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[HusKy]

1 hour ago, ChenZheCHN said:

Where do you draw the line? How do you decide whether a game is shovelware or not? Is there any guideline?

 

Maybe ask here:

Quote

Shovelware Games:

• We manually tag each list as shovelware and it may take up to a day for shovelware games to be properly tagged and filtered off of the main new games page, however they will usually be filtered out by us within minutes. There's no need to alert us of shovelware games on the day a list comes in as it's likely we just haven't been able to get to it yet.
• Even if a game has 11 gold trophies and you can get the platinum trophy in a laughably short time with very little effort, it's possible that we may not deem it as shovelware - for example if the game itself is still a full length, polished game. What we deem as shovelware could change in the future, depending on how these lists evolve over time, however for now we're sticking to the set criteria you see on the site.

 

[starcrunch061]

8 hours ago, Darling Baphomet said:

It's funny that people are still using the "let people play what they want!" argument which remains as a holdover from the Ratalaika era, given that we've progressed to the point where our easy trophy games no longer even come with games attached.

 

Yeah, I hate that argument for so many reasons. It's almost as bad as the "More options are always better!" argument.

[Deadly_Ha_Ha]

8 hours ago, ChenZheCHN said:

 

Where do you draw the line? How do you decide whether a game is shovelware or not? Is there any guideline?

Gonna continue the reply train here.

 

Just look at this dump truck game dude, stop it. Here's a good way to draw the line: Does it pass the visual test for NOT being bullshit? This doesn't, ergo it's bullshit get it out of here

[bosstristan]

17 hours ago, DeepEyes7 said:

 

Sound Shapes was one of the first autopops that we had an a lot of US fall for it, still its very subjective to say my stack and my autopop counts because it was hard... If they decide to took out stacks and autopops it will be all of them, adn you will get the S of "Stacker" and the A of "Autopopper" anyways...

 

I've never mentioned any Stacker nor Autopopper button ?

By the way, I do not consider a profile a stacker nor even an autopopper if they have a couple of them. Of course if they have like 10 stacks and 20 autopops, you can see it's a recurring thing.

 

Same thing applies with Shovelwares. There's of course a tolerance limit, which can be fixed amount of a certain percentage.

[iriihutoR84]

Feels like mistakes are already being made when games like Hatup are being labeled as shovelware.

 

In my opinion, that label should only be used in extreme cases such as palette swaps like The Jumping Food, The Noun + Letter, Ump Jumps, Noun Quiz etc. 

 

Hatup is an actual game. It doesn't seem great, the trophy list is lazy and it's probably not something that took years to develop but it is an actual game. It even has positive reviews on Steam and none of them mention Steam Achievements. Some reviews even mention it being very challenging.

 

It's incredibly important that if there is a system in place that labels things as essentially crap not worth your time and hides it from you, it is unbiased, there are standards in place and doesn't discredit actual games because someone subjectively didn't think it looked good. 

 

#freehatup

Edited October 26, 2022 by iriihutoR84

[DrBloodmoney]

35 minutes ago, bosstristan said:

By the way, I do not consider a profile a stacker nor even an autopopper if they have a couple of them. Of course if they have like 10 stacks and 20 autopops, you can see it's a recurring thing.

 

You have 11.

[MonaSaxPayne]

24 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

You have 11.

LOL

 

backpedal in 5…

[Wild-Arms-R]

13 hours ago, enaysoft said:

 

That's a blatant lie!

 

You've played Bloodborne, the same as me.

 

You know what would be a harder claim to make, 100+ plats with no stacks and no bats.

Seriously, what game dosnt have some from of bat. Lol

[Burritoprime]

I got platinum in Ni No Kuni, Resident Evil 5, Uncharted 2, Batman Arkham Asylum,  Bayonetta and some other twice, would a third time if they become available because I love them, so I guess I'm a dirty stacker, the pain of the realization. ....My forum cred is destroyed,  my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined, the horror of it all.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Sunnyburrito

[ZitMeatloaf]

7 minutes ago, Sunnyburrito said:

I'm honestly confused as to what people consider "stack" here, I got platinum in Ni No Kuni, Resident Evil 5, Uncharted 2, Batman Arkham Asylum,  Bayonetta and some other twice, would a third time if they become available because I love them, so I guess I'm a dirty stacker, the pain of the realization. ....My forum cred is destroyed,  my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined, the horror of it all.

As long as you're not boldly proclaiming "I have no stacks!", your cred is fine.

[bosstristan]

45 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

You have 11.

 

Could you show me which? I only count 2 stacks/autopop (Sound Shapes)

[DrBloodmoney]

4 minutes ago, bosstristan said:

 

Could you show me which? I only count 2 stacks/autopop (Sound Shapes)

 

Really?

Dude - maybe if you took a minute away from looking through other people's profiles, you'd have more time to look at your own? ? 

 

Okay:

 

Crash Bandicoot 4
GTA V
LA Noire
Mafia II
Sound Shapes
Sound Shapes again
The Unfinished Swan
Uncharted
Uncharted 2
Uncharted 3
What Remains of Edith Finch

 

[bosstristan]

Just now, Sunnyburrito said:

I'm honestly confused as to what people consider "stack" here, I got platinum in Ni No Kuni, Resident Evil 5, Uncharted 2, Batman Arkham Asylum,  Bayonetta and some other twice, would a third time if they become available because I love them, so I guess I'm a dirty stacker, the pain of the realization. ....My forum cred is destroyed,  my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined, the horror of it all.

 

There's a lot of misunderstanding, hearsay and somehow diffamation here.

 

What I said originally was that I personally didn't consider a stack if the game is a remake/remaster. Duplicates like Ratchet Trilogy (which was my example) could be considered a stack, and the ideal would be for the PS3 and Vita versions to merge. HOWEVER if you play some games twice out of passion, you cannot be considered a "dirty stacker" as you said. It's all about the motivation behind it.

For instance, I loved Crash 4, and I wanted to play it again 1 year after I first platted it, well, my motivation was to enjoy the game again, not to get yet another easy platinum (which btw was not the case considering how hard the game is)

Just now, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Really?

Dude - maybe if you took a minute away from looking through other people's profiles, you'd have more time to look at your own? ? 

 

Okay:

 

Crash Bandicoot 4
GTA V
LA Noire
Mafia II
Sound Shapes
Sound Shapes again
The Unfinished Swan
Uncharted
Uncharted 2
Uncharted 3
What Remains of Edith Finch

 

Yeah, that's exactly what my point was, a lot of "misunderstanding" (or the lack of will to understand) and diffamation.

 

"Dude", all of these, except for Sound Shapes, are remasters.

But please, do continue to pretend not to understand.

[ZitMeatloaf]

9 minutes ago, bosstristan said:

I only count 2 stacks/autopop

Even if you consider these to be your only ones, it still makes the claim in your signature/about me section false, correct? I think that's the point you're failing to see.

 

But you definitely have more than 2. Unfinished Swan and Crash 4 are not remasters, they're ports. Semantics I'm sure you'll debate to maintain your facade, but I think most would agree with me.

[DrBloodmoney]

26 minutes ago, bosstristan said:

"Dude", all of these, except for Sound Shapes, are remasters.

But please, do continue to pretend not to understand.

 

They're stacks. 

 

Your profile is public - as you are so fond of saying - and since you are so hell-bent on branding other people's profiles with badges showing whether they conform to your standards, you must realise you yourself must be subject to everyone else's set of definitions - including mine. 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by DrBloodmoney

[bosstristan]

Just now, ZitMeatloaf said:

Even if you consider these to be your only ones, it still makes the claim in your signature/about me section false, correct? I think that's the point you're failing to see.

 

But you definitely have more than 2. Unfinished Swan and Crash 4 are not remasters, they're ports. Semantics I'm sure you'll debate to maintain your facade, but I think most would agree with me.

 

That's the objective I give myself.

As I stated, many many times, there's a tolerance number/percentage that can be applied before anyone can be labelled a stacker, shovelware player etc.

 

PS: Crash 4 could be considered a stack, but that'd be hell of a hard one, I'd love to see more "stackers" like this lol  

Edited October 26, 2022 by bosstristan

[Burritoprime]

4 hours ago, bosstristan said:

 

There's a lot of misunderstanding, hearsay and somehow diffamation here.

 

What I said originally was that I personally didn't consider a stack if the game is a remake/remaster. Duplicates like Ratchet Trilogy (which was my example) could be considered a stack, and the ideal would be for the PS3 and Vita versions to merge. HOWEVER if you play some games twice out of passion, you cannot be considered a "dirty stacker" as you said. It's all about the motivation behind it.

For instance, I loved Crash 4, and I wanted to play it again 1 year after I first platted it, well, my motivation was to enjoy the game again, not to get yet another easy platinum (which btw was not the case considering how hard the game is)

Yeah, that's exactly what my point was, a lot of "misunderstanding" (or the lack of will to understand) and diffamation.

 

"Dude", all of these, except for Sound Shapes, are remasters.

But please, do continue to pretend not to understand.

All jokes aside, you don't have to explain yourself to me or to anyone else here in the forums, it's your profile you can even auto pop 1 minute trashware if that's your thing, the problem is getting all over other people shit with a weirdly obsession about what other people play, while setting personal standards for said people when you don't follow them yourself, almost every post of yours is the exact same, just play/do whatever you want and let others do the same, the main problem of the eye bleeding amount of trashware on the main page was already solved and that's enough for me, and yes those games you mention are stacks.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Sunnyburrito

[Darling Baphomet]

31 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

Really?

Dude - maybe if you took a minute away from looking through other people's profiles, you'd have more time to look at your own?  

 

Okay:

 

Crash Bandicoot 4
GTA V
LA Noire
Mafia II
Sound Shapes
Sound Shapes again
The Unfinished Swan
Uncharted
Uncharted 2
Uncharted 3
What Remains of Edith Finch

 

 

Given that only two of those are cheap stacks and the others are actual games, I think you've made their point for them.

[bosstristan]

Just now, Darling Baphomet said:

 

Given that only two of those are cheap stacks and the others are actual games, I think you've made their point for them.

 

Yeah it's quite ridiculous.

Not to mention that this guy is trying to invalidate my ideas/opinions by showing me a stack that I did 10 years ago, and that represents 0.727% of my games. That's a really, really low move.

But I guess when you don't have any arguments, you just pick trifles from 10 years ago. Not to get political or anything, but we can see this pernicious tactic used by politics quite often.

 

"How can be in favor of the environment when you threw a plastic cup in the river 10 years ago! Cancelled!"

Edited October 26, 2022 by bosstristan

[DrBloodmoney]

Just now, bosstristan said:

 

Yeah it's quite ridiculous.

Not to mention that this guy is trying to invalidate my ideas/opinions by showing me a stack that I did 10 years ago, and that represents 0.75% of my games. That's really, really low.

But I guess when you don't have any arguments, you just pick trifles from 10 years ago. Not to get political or anything, but we can see this pernicious tactic used by politics quite often.

 

"How can be in favor of the environment when you threw a plastic cup in the river 10 years ago! Cancelled!"

 

I'm not trying to invalidate your opinions - I don't need to.

They won't get any traction anyways 

This whole debate has great, valid points on all sides, but even most of the folks who usually fall somewhere much closer to the "elitism" side of the hobby than me seem to back away from your opinions, like "Uh, yeah, we're not with this guy" ?

 

 

My point was, maybe before making blanket statements and trying to brand everyone who doesn't fit your (current) standards, you might want to check your own backyard first.

 

..You think I care if you stack games?

'Course not. you could stack the same game 15 times over, and I wouldn't care.

Because I'm not a crazy cuckoo bananas person.

 

 

But... when you wrap so much of your online personality around saying you don't do something - to the extent that the only topics you ever comment on are about either shovel ware, stacking or auto popping, and you've even gone as far as declaring it in your signature at the bottom of those posts that you don't do that thing...

 

...you really want to make pretty damned sure that you actually don't. ?