Should Shovelware Be Worth Zero Points?

[DeadgrounD_EU]

I wish they change or add another leaderboard with better scoring system.

 

For example, points per trophy:
ULTRA RARE   (0.00% - 5.00%)    =  6p
VERY RARE    (5.00% - 10.00%)   =  4p
RARE              (10.00% - 20.00%)  =  3p
UNCOMMON  (20.00% - 50.00%)  =  2p
COMMON       (50.00% - 100.00%) = 1p

 

+ If the game has DLC that has at least 10 trophies (for 100%) you get bonus +1 points, or if it has multiple DLCs that all combined have at least 20 trophies you get bonus +3 points and if it has more then 30 you get +5 points max. Or simply get bonus points based on 100% rarity (green number).

That way it would be cool to reward players who go for 100%. 

 

So for example, this point system would look something like this: 
My name is Mayo (has 51 common trophies) = 51 points
Super Meat Boy (20UR, 2VR, 1Un and 1C) = 131 points
Horizon Zero Dawn (24Un and 32C (DLC 23Un)) = 129 points

 

Tho I would even add another Trophy rarity for under 1% (0.00% - 1.00%) and award 9p per trophy.

Because games that have couple of UR trophies are usually very hard to get, don't have a lot of trophies and don't have DLCs.

 

And when UR becomes VR trophy, of course points are adjusted according to rarity. 

 

I made this of top of my head and it's far far from perfect, but I honestly believe something like this would make more people interested in leaderboard and trophy hunting in general.

It's definitely better than buying/playing bunch of 5min games and getting 1000 plats within a day.

 

And one more thing, all auto-pop trophies should be 0 points.

 

Thank you if you took your time to read about my opinion on trophies.
I appreciate it and wish you all the best.
Take care.

Edited October 22, 2022 by DeadgrounD_EU

[MonaSaxPayne]

1 hour ago, steel6burgh said:

so what is the current leaderboard do exactly? 

 

it awards points for trophies earned. nothing more. nothing less
 

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Do you feel rewarding people with the top spots on the leaderboard for playing shovelware is justified?

 

 

yes. its the fastest way to earn points

 

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If so why and how do you feel they are more deserving than someone who puts fohr time and displays actual skill?   

 

you're trying to compare apples and oranges. get a leaderboard centered around "time played" or "skill displayed"

 

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Also I think you often times confuse the reasoning behind a leaderboard built around rarity.  You think it's to play tough games and show off skill.  A rarity leaderboard has little to do with those things. the main purpose behind creating a rarity leaderboard is really just to put the shovelware developers out of business

 

 

people have been asking for a rarity leaderboard long before the arrival of this shovelware epidemic. it is absolutely about trying to show off (misperceived) skill, because it a (misguided) belief that rarity = difficulty 

 

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people can play whatever they want hard or not

 

 

u don't need any type of specific leaderboard to play whatever u want. u can do that right now. the issue seems to be that you want other ppl to play what you want them to

 

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People arguing against it on the other hand seem to almost all have tons of shovelware games on their list

 

not always. some ppl just believe that everyone should be able to play whatever they want without being ridiculed for it

[Play3GianniGreed]

5 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

it awards points for trophies earned. nothing more. nothing less
 

 

yes. its the fastest way to earn points

 

 

you're trying to compare apples and oranges. get a leaderboard centered around "time played" or "skill displayed"

 

 

people have been asking for a rarity leaderboard long before the arrival of this shovelware epidemic. it is absolutely about trying to show off (misperceived) skill, because it a (misguided) belief that rarity = difficulty 

 

 

u don't need any type of specific leaderboard to play whatever u want. u can do that right now. the issue seems to be that you want other ppl to play what you want them to

 

 

not always. some ppl just believe that everyone should be able to play whatever they want without being ridiculed for it

 

 

Exactly. 

Everyone should be free to play what they want without giving explanations to anyone, but here there are people who think they are better because they play "better" games and other peoples have to know it. Flash news, nobody cares what you play and what trophies you get. 

 

[steel6burgh]

7 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

it awards points for trophies earned. nothing more. nothing less

Yeah but thats its out of context in regards from the discussion I was having with him.  you have to read his comments and mine.

 

8 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

yes. its the fastest way to earn points

it's also the laziest cheapest and effortless 

 

9 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

you're trying to compare apples and oranges. get a leaderboard centered around "time played" or "skill displayed

I'm distinguishing from effort versus bullshit

 

10 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

people have been asking for a rarity leaderboard long before the arrival of this shovelware epidemic. it is absolutely about trying to show off (misperceived) skill, because it a (misguided) belief that rarity = difficulty 

not from my personal perspective From my point of view i want  to put trash developers out of business where they belong

 

11 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

u don't need any type of specific leaderboard to play whatever u want. u can do that right now. the issue seems to be that you want other ppl to play what you want them to

You always make the argument people want to play the trash games but you're kidding yourself they want to climb the leaderboards as effortlessly as possible.  It's and exploration like using a cheat or glitch to beat something they can't do in a honorable legitimate fashion.

 

13 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

not always. some ppl just believe that everyone should be able to play whatever they want without being ridiculed for i

I believe the same thing so lets devalue the points of shovelware to 0 and see how many of them still "WANT" to play it.  I bet 0 or damn near it.  Don't give me your bullshit that anybody wants to play jumping sandwich for any other reason than to exploit there way to the top of a leaderboard.   

 

I really don't have any respect for what you say because to me you are a troll  You don't play shovelware but you feel the need to defend it.  You're not ever going to convince me there should be a place for it regardless of what you say.  you keep saying the same shit "people should be allowed to play what they want to play"   Nobody is saying they shouldn't.  alot of us just don't want to see it counted.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Play3GianniGreed said:

Exactly. 

Everyone should be free to play what they want without giving explanations to anyone, but here there are people who think they are better because they play "better" games and other peoples have to know it. Flash news, nobody cares what you play and what trophies you ge

nobody is asking anybody to explain theirselves to why they play it.  This is a discussion on the relevance of it and if it should be counted towards leaderboards.  People should play what they want and give no explanation.  People in this conversation just want to see the points for shovelware reduced to 0.  No explanation needed.   This has nothing to do with "better" i bet some of the people playing shovelware are great gamers and have all kinds of skill.  This is a hobby that was around long before shovelware games and this is a discussion about preserving it.  If people want to come in to the debate who play shovelware they are welcome but often times they get kind of butt hurt when they realize people don't value the games they've been playing.  They defend it and explain it and nobody asks them too.   We know why they do it.  so really there is no explanation needed.  We just want to cancel it like cancel culture.  

  

 

 

 

[Play3GianniGreed]

4 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

Yeah but thats its out of context in regards from the discussion I was having with him.  you have to read his comments and mine.

 

it's also the laziest cheapest and effortless 

 

I'm distinguishing from effort versus bullshit

 

not from my personal perspective From my point of view i want  to put trash developers out of business where they belong

 

You always make the argument people want to play the trash games but you're kidding yourself they want to climb the leaderboards as effortlessly as possible.  It's and exploration like using a cheat or glitch to beat something they can't do in a honorable legitimate fashion.

 

I believe the same thing so lets devalue the points of shovelware to 0 and see how many of them still "WANT" to play it.  I bet 0 or damn near it.  Don't give me your bullshit that anybody wants to play jumping sandwich for any other reason than to exploit there way to the top of a leaderboard.   

 

I really don't have any respect for what you say because to me you are a troll  You don't play shovelware but you feel the need to defend it.  You're not ever going to convince me there should be a place for it regardless of what you say.  you keep saying the same shit "people should be allowed to play what they want to play"   Nobody is saying they shouldn't.  alot of us just don't want to see it counted.

 

 

nobody is asking anybody to explain theirselves to why they play it.  This is a discussion on the relevance of it and if it should be counted towards leaderboards.  People should play what they want and give no explanation.  People in this conversation just want to see the points for shovelware reduced to 0.  No explanation needed.   This has nothing to do with "better" i bet some of the people playing shovelware are great gamers and have all kinds of skill.  This is a hobby that was around long before shovelware games and this is a discussion about preserving it.  If people want to come in to the debate who play shovelware they are welcome but often times they get kind of butt hurt when they realize people don't value the games they've been playing.  They defend it and explain it and nobody asks them too.   We know why they do it.  so really there is no explanation needed.  We just want to cancel it like cancel culture.  

  

 

 

 

 

 

Who appointed you trophies police? 

[Squarevii87]

I don't care about the leaderboard 

I have mine

In that I'm first

In my heart,my mind...

[GoonerLukeThe]

it would cure a lot of addiction if they were worth zero points, so it would be a great thing

[MonaSaxPayne]

15 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

You always make the argument people want to play the trash games but you're kidding yourself they want to climb the leaderboards as effortlessly as possible.

 

but this is literally what I said. it's the fastest way to gain points (and therefore "win" at a points based leaderboard). and they play these games because they WANT to climb the leaderboard. the quality/difficulty/fun of a game has nothing to do with its available points, or how fast they can be acquired
 

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It's and exploration like using a cheat or glitch to beat something they can't do in a honorable legitimate fashion.

 

 

take a look around you. EVERYWHERE on this site contains threads, tips, videos etc for how to obtain trophies with the least amount of effort. 

 

glitches, debug menus, patch downgrades, boosting sessions, SharePlay, autopops etc. if u wanna talk about honorable and legitimate you're in the wrong place 

 

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I believe the same thing so lets devalue the points of shovelware to 0

 

sure. as soon as Sony does it

 

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I really don't have any respect for what you say because to me you are a troll 

 

 

why am I a troll? because I say something that you don't like? that's not what troll means 

 

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You don't play shovelware but you feel the need to defend it.  

 

I'll repeat it for you. I'm defending ppl's rights to play whatever they want without being ridiculed for it 

 

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You're not ever going to convince me there should be a place for it regardless of what you say.

 

this is why I told u in another topic that u have cognitive dissonance. u refuse to open your mind and understand that there are other legitimate perspectives than your own

 

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you keep saying the same shit "people should be allowed to play what they want to play"   Nobody is saying they shouldn't.  

 

YOU ARE LITERALLY SAYING THIS 

 

"play shovelware if u want but u will be penalized if u do" is fundamentally saying " don't play shovelware"

[Play3GianniGreed]

4 minutes ago, disaster500 said:

In a public forum with thousands of people, that's a ridiculous thing to ask, which would result in absolutely no changes ever being made.

 

 

And that is why you can't decide either. 

The decision has to be made by the people in charge of the site, not by some majority. 

[steel6burgh]

9 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

play shovelware if u want but u will be penalized if u do" is fundamentally saying " don't play shovelware"

well dude I'm not responding to all this i didn't even read it the last part caught my eye so i'll respond to it.  I never said to penalize anybody I just advocate to not reward it.  you fail to reason simple things because you really just want to argue.  

[the1andonly654]

This is psn profiles. Like it or not, it documents all the things you did on your psn profile. Unless you hide it or whatever. They shouldn't be worth zero points. The default leaderboard should reflect the current psn trophy system, so all games count, all trophies are worth the same amount of points as in the psn system. Yes, there should be an alternative or even multiple alternatives for people who care about more than just the number of trophies on their account. In a way, we have a bit of that already with the fastest plat/100% on every game. But the default thing anyone sees after registering should be the thing they see on their consoles. And yes, I do think Sony should address the problem and only then PSNP should follow. 

[Darling Baphomet]

1 hour ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

I'll repeat it for you. I'm defending ppl's rights to play whatever they want without being ridiculed for it 

 

The word 'play' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

 

1 hour ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

"play shovelware if u want but u will be penalized if u do" is fundamentally saying " don't play shovelware"

 

Why, because there's no reason to play shovelware except to gain an unfair advantage on the leaderboard and in trophy hunting competitions?

 

Well, if you insist.

[GUDGER666]

1 hour ago, steel6burgh said:

Incase you didn't notice there are over 400 people involved in this conversation and according to the recent polls 3 to 1 hold the same viewpoint as myself.  almost 70%

Theres 465K members on this site, about 0.08% of them have said anything. And don't forget this is the internet, most people who voted for 0 are just doing so because it negatively affects someone. 

[steel6burgh]

Just now, GUDGER666 said:

Theres 465K members on this site, about 0.08% of them have said anything. And don't forget this is the internet, most people who voted for 0 are just doing so because it negatively affects someone. 

  You do realize that polls always include a fraction of the number of people expected to vote and within  a reasonable margin of error often time they are very accurate?  400 people is usually a pretty solid number to gauge where a larger group of the population stands on an issue.   There is probably a margin for error that could be applied but it probably wouldn't be significant.

[Thrillhelm]

1 hour ago, TomataEighty9 said:

 

Well if majority thinks something, they MUST be right, right?  

 

A majority of German people were members of the Nazi Party. Guess they were in the right with your logic

Been waiting for someone pulling the nazi card and here we go.

 

70% of the people who voted for 0 points still do not represent the entire forum, and aside from a possible manipulation with multiple accounts its but a fraction of forum users. Its not representative at all.

[MonaSaxPayne]

7 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

  You do realize that polls always include a fraction of the number of people expected to vote and within  a reasonable margin of error often time they are very accurate?  400 people is usually a pretty solid number to gauge where a larger group of the population stands on an issue.   There is probably a margin for error that could be applied but it probably wouldn't be significant.

 

while most of what u say is correct, 400 votes (out of a possible 465k) isn't a large enough sample size 

[TomataEighty9]

4 minutes ago, Thrillhelm said:

Been waiting for someone pulling the nazi card and here we go.

 

70% of the people who voted for 0 points still do not represent the entire forum, and aside from a possible manipulation with multiple accounts its but a fraction of forum users. Its not representative at all.

 

What's wrong with the nazi card? It's part of history, and in the given situation, it was a perfectly good example. But im glad you've been waiting, and that i delivered what you've waited for. Always at service!  

 

I agree with the last sentence.

1 minute ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

while most of what u say is correct, 400 votes (out of a possible 465k) isn't a large enough sample size 

 

Don't ruin his flawed logic with common sense. He get's pissed when people does it  

[steel6burgh]

2 minutes ago, MonaSaxPayne said:

 

while most of what u say is correct, 400 votes (out of a possible 465k) isn't a large enough sample size 

what is the proper sample size?  It's not 400 the what is it?  I'm assuming you got that answer.  

[GUDGER666]

5 minutes ago, steel6burgh said:

  You do realize that polls always include a fraction of the number of people expected to vote and within  a reasonable margin of error often time they are very accurate?  400 people is usually a pretty solid number to gauge where a larger group of the population stands on an issue.   There is probably a margin for error that could be applied but it probably wouldn't be significant.

Lol that's a tiny number for that amount, there's 1000s of active users on this site. Also when this poll first started i saw lots of new and alt accounts in the recently visited. Most likely people double or triple voting for 0 points. 

[steel6burgh]

3 minutes ago, GUDGER666 said:

Lol that's a tiny number for that amount, there's 1000s of active users on this site. Also when this poll first started i saw lots of new and alt accounts in the recently visited. Most likely people double or triple voting for 0 points. 

what is the right number for the amount of users?  are you counting long gone non active users as well?

Edited October 22, 2022 by steel6burgh

[ScintillaWolf]

As much as I want the shovelware gone...

 

I come from the United Kingdom, and the majority (albeit a tight one) voted for Brexit and have damn near crippled our great isles... so the argument to always trust in the majority is not always a solid one ?

[MonaSaxPayne]

Just now, steel6burgh said:

what is the proper sample size?  It's not 400 the what is it?  I'm assuming you got that answer.  

 

as a general rule of thumb, most statisticians agree that the minimum sample size to get any kind of meaningful result is 100. If your population is less than 100 then you really need to survey all of them.

 

A good maximum sample size is usually around 10% of the population, as long as this does not exceed 1000. For example, this site has a population of 465,000. 10% would be 46,500. This exceeds 1000, so in this case the maximum would be 1000.

 

[ObsiEez]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No, get over it.

 

Cutting away shovelware or not, the leaderboards won't change. The people on top will still BE on top since the differences between them are the non-shovelware titles. Leaderboards reward the people who've played the longest, just like everywhere else.

Besides, if that were to be implemented, who determines what's shovelware? Where is the line drawn? There are non-shovelware games that can be done between 10 minutes to an hour like Minecraft, ARK, Conan Exiles. Do those count as shovelware? Why or why not? Do Rata titles count? They are full fledged games but super super easy platinums, are those excluded? Well if it's % based, what about games like Persona 5 Royal which can take upwards of 100 hours to do, does that count simply because it has an easy trophy list? Or stuff like RE2 & RE3 on PS5 which has extremely high % just because most people auto-popped it, what about the people who didn't auto-pop it? They now can't have that game count simply because people DID auto-pop it?

PSNProfiles just implemented a thing that hides shovelware games by default on the new trophy lists tab so they aren't flooding the page. But people aren't happy because it's hiding the shovelware & people aren't happy because their definition of shovelware isn't hidden. A new leaderboard based off someones subjective view of what a leaderboard should be will not work, which is why it's best to have a leaderboard that just counts everything. If you don't like that, just use a different leaderboard site or stop caring about the leaderboards since they're clearly not what you want. It's already been stated the leaderboards won't be changing so I don't understand why this topic comes up again & again & again & again & again & again & again & again & again & again.

[MonaSaxPayne]

1 minute ago, steel6burgh said:

I think 400 is a decent sample but maybe it could be larger.  certainly it's not enough to  disregard the entire poll but only makes the margin of error a bit larger. 

 

I just gave u a formula from qualified statisticians that explains why 400 votes is nowhere near accurately representative, and u just disregarded all of that because of what "u think" ?

 

its like reading these Facebook posts from high school drop outs explaining why they have more knowledge than trained virologists and coronavirus is a hoax

[Beyondthegrave07]

I had to remove a lot of bickering and back and forth trolling and insults. Keep it up, and I will hand out warnings and possibly lock the thread.