Main game + DLC trophies not seperate

[DrBloodmoney]

Why would they even buy it.

Is this a serious question? Are you actually asking why would a person buy a dlc if they arnt going to go for every trophy in it?

Some people like to play all parts of a game for the fun, not JUST to go for trophies.

You are entitled to your opinion, but if thats genuinely how you feel then let me ask you this - why did YOU buy it and not get the last 3 trophies in it?

[Shana Alter]

Can someone of the make DLC trophies common for group, please explain how their stance is more correct or try counter my earlier post as all I am seeing is that you're for the rarity drop but not why.

 

Personally I don't understand it as the DLC will still be there keeping you from 100%, it is your choice not to attempt it or unable to earn any DLC trophies, doing this won't change something like Uncharted 3's 55% to 100% or The Walking Dead's B or C to an S so why are you so vehemently against this?

 

Sorry if this sounds stand offish but I can't find it anywhere why the current wrong method is favoured.

 

Also remember I stated trophies are rare in that game not all of PSN which most of youfor people keep bringing up but every game is different and attracts different players which is why certain harder games are more common than easier games, look at Metal Gear Rising Revengeance compared to something like LittleBigPlanet Karting for example the rarities are so close do you honestly want to say Metal Gear is only slightly harder than LBP?

[weeztha]

So why even consider them an owner? As far as I'm concerned, 0% of base games shouldn't be considered owner as well - we would avoid most of this discussion than. Only situation, in which system is strongly misrepresenting, is with DLC /w single trophy and DLC /w whole list being extremely difficult. Those are very big minority, and yes, we are underestimating their rarity. But I still prefer to underestimate the rarity of 5 trophies, than overestimate few hundreds in the same pool. My Ultra Rare list is now filled with trophies from Metro DLCs, that are all very easy, but since game was quite popular and in PS+, they are mostly < 1%. And there is ~40-80 of those in my list of 7k trophies - that situation completely undermines whole concept of rarity, because spending some money and an hour on DLC for PS+ game is "worth" more than platinum in NGS2.

Since those trophies are a minority like you said the there should be an exception made for those few games with 1 dlc trophy.

It wouldn't be hard to do and would help other people understand that the dlc trophy is a lot harder than being represented as 100% common

[Doom]

Is this a serious question? Are you actually asking why would a person buy a dlc if they arnt going to go for every trophy in it?

Some people like to play all parts of a game for the fun, not JUST to go for trophies.

You are entitled to your opinion, but if thats genuinely how you feel then let me ask you this - why did YOU buy it and not get the last 3 trophies in it?

Because I'm still working on it 

Just needed to take a break from those ridiculously luck based trophies.

If you watch closely my trophy log you'll see that I normally play a game to 100% before moving to something else if the DLCs have all being released.

 

Unless the DLCs are purely MP which I'll never ever buy. With few exceptions for games where I really want 100%.

 

And I'm still pretty much convinced that the vast majority of DLCs owners are trophy hunters.

If DLCs didn't have trophies I would most certainly never buy them (unless they progress the main story and bridge the story for the sequel).

Edited March 3, 2014 by DocDoomII

[Robin]

So why even consider them an owner? As far as I'm concerned, 0% of base games shouldn't be considered owner as well - we would avoid most of this discussion than.

 

Only situation, in which system is strongly misrepresenting, is with DLC /w single trophy and DLC /w whole list being extremely difficult. Those are very big minority, and yes, we are underestimating their rarity. But I still prefer to underestimate the rarity of 5 trophies, than overestimate few hundreds in the same pool.

 

My Ultra Rare list is now filled with trophies from Metro DLCs, that are all very easy, but since game was quite popular and in PS+, they are mostly < 1%. And there is ~40-80 of those in my list of 7k trophies - that situation completely undermines whole concept of rarity, because spending some money and an hour on DLC for PS+ game is "worth" more than platinum in NGS2.

 

I understand the 0% argument since they wouldn't really have any trophies for it to count, But if you already have 1 Trophy for a Certain game it is counted Towards the 100% Completion of which DLC is Part of....

 

Just like Asuna Said the DLC Counts for the Game's 100% so why shouldn't it's Rarity be Counted as Part of the Base Game?

 

 

also, That's what the Cabinet is For.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Kuroi-Akira

[AkodoRyu]

Is this a serious question? Are you actually asking why would a person buy a dlc if they arnt going to go for every trophy in it?

Some people like to play all parts of a game for the fun, not JUST to go for trophies.

You are entitled to your opinion, but if thats genuinely how you feel then let me ask you this - why did YOU buy it and not get the last 3 trophies in it?

 

Pretty sure his point is "why/how would someone buy it, play it, and not get a single trophy, making him an owner and not part of this discussion".

 

It's a valid point.

 

 

 

Just like Asuna Said the DLC Counts for the Game's 100% so why shouldn't it's Rarity be Counted as Part of the Base Game?

 

Because owning game != owning DLC, ergo you are not part of the possible pool of users that can achieve it. As I've said, DLC attachment rate is rarely higher than 10%, so considering all game owners as potential DLC owners is significantly skewing the rarity number, making, de facto, common trophies more rare, than even harshest of platinums, in turn removing any value from trophy rarity.

Edited March 3, 2014 by AkodoRyu

[Shana Alter]

Pretty sure his point is "why/how would someone buy it, play it, and not get a single trophy, making him an owner and not part of this discussion".

 

It's a valid point.

For that arguement there are DLC packs you can play and not earn a single trophy so those that played them and failed aren't owners, please explain the logic as it honestly puzzles me since I struggled to earn all the Grid 2 DLC I could've easily played that and not earned a single trophy.

 

Or even better you can play using Makoto, Valkenhayn and Platinum in BlazBlue: Continuum Shift and not get a single one of their trophies so your point?

[Doom]

I hereby invoke THE NEED OF A TOGGLE in the profile options 

[DrBloodmoney]

Pretty sure his point is "why/how would someone buy it, play it, and not get a single trophy, making him an owner and not part of this discussion".

 

It's a valid point.

not really, since an average casual gamer not specifically going for trophies could play and enjoy this dlc for 10 hours and still get none of the trophies as thhe requirements are all quite specific and often brutally difficult/ luck based.

You really feel that they dont matter at all?

Personally I think that getting 100% in a game requires dlc to be compleye, so dlc rarity should be based on the main game too (I also think 0%s should factor into a persons completion rate)

Its just the philosophical difference that has been one of the most contentious on the site since the advent of dlc seperation.

tlThere is no easy answer, just a bunch of conflicting, perfectly valid opinions.

Nothing wrong with debating them tho

[Dr_Mayus]

Is that all? Seriously? Hahaha...

 

I explained thoroughly the problem with this system, showed examples, and this is the reply? 

 

Obviously in my case I can "show them off" in the cabinet but 

1. that doesn't change the fact that I have less ultra rares than I deserve because of it

2. those who have more than 3 hard DLC trophies, what are they gonna do? Pay for premium? And those who have more than 10?

 

I feel like you understand that I'm right, but you don't wanna change the system back because it would be either a lot of work or because you'd feel like a shame to switch back now. It's not a shame, it's how it should be...

You can also make a checklist to show off all your super cereal ultra rare trophies

[AkodoRyu]

For that arguement there are DLC packs you can play and not earn a single trophy so those that played them and failed aren't owners, please explain the logic as it honestly puzzles me since I struggled to earn all the Grid 2 DLC I could've easily played that and not earned a single trophy.

 

Or even better you can play using Makoto, Valkenhayn and Platinum in BlazBlue: Continuum Shift and not get a single one of their trophies so your point?

 

Because those are edge cases - affecting strong minority of games/DLC/players.

 

On the other side are, as I've mentioned numerous times now, extremely easy trophies in popular games (eg. PS+ games), that majority of userbase will not get DLC for, that are skewing whole rarity curve.

Eg. there are 19 trophies in Metro: Last Light DLCs, that if put in comparison to general game owners population, make them more rare (sometimes significantly more rare), than platinums like Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, there are even a few that can be compared to plat in Max Payne 3. Hardest of those, are probably 3/10. I don't have to argue the difficulty of NGS2 or MP3 I assume. And it's only one game, of which there are many - much, much more, than rare DLC trophies, that have unappreciated value. Taking game owners as base to comparison for DLC makes rarity completely irrelevant, which is not the point.

[Robin]

Because owning game != owning DLC, ergo you are not part of the possible pool of users that can achieve it. As I've said, DLC attachment rate is rarely higher than 10%, so considering all game owners as potential DLC owners is significantly skewing the rarity number, making, de facto, common trophies more rare, than even harshest of platinums, in turn removing any value from trophy rarity.

 

So I can't got to a Friend's house & Login from their Ps3 & Earn Said DLC Trophies From a DLC I did not Purchase myself?

 

Just because I did not Buy the DLC doesn't automatically remove the possibility of getting them

Edited March 3, 2014 by Kuroi-Akira

[CorgiBootyy]

Because those are edge cases - affecting strong minority of games/DLC/players.

 

On the other side are, as I've mentioned numerous times now, extremely easy trophies in popular games (eg. PS+ games), that majority of userbase will not get DLC for, that are skewing whole rarity curve.

Eg. there are 19 trophies in Metro: Last Light DLCs, that if put in comparison to general game owners population, make them more rare (sometimes significantly more rare), than platinums like Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, there are even a few that can be compared to plat in Max Payne 3. Hardest of those, are probably 3/10. I don't have to argue the difficulty of NGS2 or MP3 I assume. And it's only one game, of which there are many - much, much more, than rare DLC trophies, that have unappreciated value. Taking game owners as base to comparison for DLC makes rarity completely irrelevant, which is not the point.

It's not about difficulty at all. https://psnprofiles.com/forums/topic/13490-main-game-dlc-trophies-not-seperate/page-4#entry274740

[Shana Alter]

Because those are edge cases - affecting strong minority of games/DLC/players.

 

On the other side are, as I've mentioned numerous times now, extremely easy trophies in popular games (eg. PS+ games), that majority of userbase will not get DLC for, that are skewing whole rarity curve.

Eg. there are 19 trophies in Metro: Last Light DLCs, that if put in comparison to general game owners population, make them more rare (sometimes significantly more rare), than platinums like Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, there are even a few that can be compared to plat in Max Payne 3. Hardest of those, are probably 3/10. I don't have to argue the difficulty of NGS2 or MP3 I assume. And it's only one game, of which there are many - much, much more, than rare DLC trophies, that have unappreciated value. Taking game owners as base to comparison for DLC makes rarity completely irrelevant, which is not the point.

I'm sorry but rarity from game to game will always be in stark contrast and does not reflect their rarity amongst all users of the PSN but only users of said game titles as I compared earlier Revengeance and LBPK you honestly want to tell me LBPK is only slightly harder?

 

Your own opinion of rarity is based on difficulty which I said doesn't always match up and honestly I could find more fringe cases, I explained why my view of rarity is the way it is as those trophies are rare in that game not on all of PSN but you appear to be implying the inverse, correct me if I am wrong.

 

Also if I haven't earned a trophy in a game I have played be it core or DLC I should be adding to it's rarity as I haven't earned it but I have the chance to earn it.

 

Also here is a good question since you all say don't own DLC/shouldn't count: If I play a game withclosed servers surely my progress in said game shouldn't affect online trophies as I can't earn those due to no access to the online, it is the same thing.

 

 

EDIT:

You did read my post on top of the previous page, correct stating rarity?

Edited March 3, 2014 by Asuna-the-Flash

[AkodoRyu]

It's not about difficulty at all. https://psnprofiles.com/forums/topic/13490-main-game-dlc-trophies-not-seperate/page-4#entry274740

 

Don't agree with your point, that spending some money should open doors for Ultra Rare, sub 1% level trophies to any person who can be bothered. Maybe rarity shouldn't, indeed, be connected only to difficulty, but it should be first, foremost and most important part of it. Sure, there are relatively easy trophies that require dozens of hours - but that kind of dedication should still be valued levels above $9.99. That train of thought makes rarity irrelevant and not a measurement of anything.

[DrBloodmoney]

Also here is a good question since you all say don't own DLC/shouldn't count: If I play a game withclosed servers surely my progress in said game shouldn't affect online trophies as I can't earn those due to no access to the online, it is the same thing.

That is a very different issue - as some people did have the chance to get those trophies and later people didnt - also an interesting debate, but not related to this one.

The option to play DLC is there for everyone (except where said dlc is no longer available, but at that point it becomes more a debate about how to deal with unattainable trophies) and so everyone has the ABILITY to get them, just not necessarily the DESIRE to - I.e. exactly the same as main game trophies

Edited March 3, 2014 by DrBloodmoney

[CorgiBootyy]

Don't agree with your point, that spending some money should open doors for Ultra Rare, sub 1% level trophies to any person who can be bothered. Maybe rarity shouldn't, indeed, be connected only to difficulty, but it should be first, foremost and most important part of it. Sure, there are relatively easy trophies that require dozens of hours - but that kind of dedication should still be valued levels above $9.99. That train of thought makes rarity irrelevant and not a measurement of anything.

It's not about the money, the focus is going out of your way to do more for the trophy. Dlc trophies; just like collectibles, really tough trophies that have requirements someone regularly playing wouldn't complete, and one's that require a lot of time and patience. You're going out of your way to play the game further and be rewarded by completing additional objectives. Which is the point of many trophies, furthermore of ultra rare trophies.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Blazikiller

[Shana Alter]

That is a very different issue - as some people did have the chance to get those trophies and later people didnt - also an interesting debate, but not related to this one.

The option to play DLC is there for everyone (except where said dlc is no longer available, but at that point it becomes more a debate about how to deal with unattainable trophies) and so everyone has the ABILITY to get them, just not necessarily the DESIRE to - I.e. exactly the same as main game trophies

My point was the chance was there to earn them and so was the possibility but my comparison was pretty poor I guess I'll blame it on being 4am and no sleep...

[Amonares]

This is great! Now my "Gold Star" trophy from "Ballad of Gay Tony" (dlc of gta4) is not 5.63% ,  it's 1.13% !!!!  

Edited March 3, 2014 by Dark_Prince_01

[ProGamerX56]

Great, my brother's now got tons of URs from LBP2

*envy*

Edited March 3, 2014 by ProGamerX56

[Amonares]

btw I just got 3 ultra rare trophies from this

Edited March 3, 2014 by Dark_Prince_01

[AkodoRyu]

It's not about the money, the focus is going out of your way to do more for the trophy. Dlc trophies; just like collectibles, really tough trophies that have requirements someone regularly playing wouldn't complete, and one's that require a lot of time and patience. You're going out of your way to play the game further and be rewarded by completing additional objectives.

 

No, they are not, because you can earn collectibles, or any other trophy in base game, simply by effort, and you have to put out monetary investment to earn trophies in DLC. You are acquiring separate product, not unlike new game, so why would people who haven't bought that product be considered it's owners? You say it's not about money, but what are the voices of discontent about DLC mainly? Low amount of content/quality of content for high price - they are expensive in their own right. Even more for older games/games you got for "free".

 

Anyway, I guess, since none of our arguments are convincing other side and we just running in circles now, we have to agree to disagree, like many great minds before us, and go our separate ways Time to leave keyboard and go hit some (volley)balls

Edited March 3, 2014 by AkodoRyu

[Doom]

This is great! Now my "Gold Star" trophy from "Ballad of Gay Tony" (dlc of gta4) is not 5.63% ,  it's 1.13% !!!!

Great, my brother's now got tons of URs from LBP2

*envy*

You two should really start reading the whole thing before randomly posting.

These stats are only temporary, they'll revert back to a less rare value.

[Time4Tiddy]

...and you have to put out monetary investment to earn trophies in DLC. You are acquiring separate product, not unlike new game...

 

This.  I understand this is a temporary programming rollback that will be corrected, but I have to say I also agree DLC should only be based on who has it, not who has the base game.  First, overall stats are not currently based on total PS3 owners, they are based only on those who have played a specific game.  Otherwise it would be the hard to find and older games that would have the rarest trophies.  Second, if I play AC2, that doesn't mean I'm automatically counted towards rarity for AC:B and AC:R, even though they are continuations of the story - because I may never own or play those games.  Similarly, not everyone will buy the DLC, and counting them in with those who do play makes about as much sense as the above scenarios.  

[Aranea Highwind]

Since some DLC trophies are not separated from the normal list.Can suggest header images for the DLC trophies packs?

 

Here an example this game has a custom image related to the DLC pack.

 

 

 

This is one of the games that recently got their DLC trophies separated from the normal list.Can we suggest images related to the DLC?