Yearly auto-updates are needed

[Jeanolt]

I'm not sure if this topic has been made before, but it kinda needs to, and I've been reading about this for a long time.

 

This probably will be a shot in the dark but @Sly Ripper, is there a way to allow automatic update to work, let's say, only a day per year? As far as I know, the mod team mentioned you did it to lessen the pressure of sony servers (this is the worst way I can explain it but it makes sense in my head lol), so I understand why did you disallowed. Even if it means full maintenance of the site for a full day, it will be a day-night difference.

 

Because eventually, rarities of the trophies stop making sense, and the leaderboards do too with ghost accounts, specially for people like me who are placed a lot lower than the higher ranks. Then you have games that require 80 hours and a speedrun to plat with a 30% platinum, when in PS3 it should have been a 5%. This is not because it's harder, but because the player base tracked is small, which leads to confusion in how hard are the trophies compared to years before (or a decade). Also the top played games are always going to be misleading.

 

I know it's hard to allow it but I really believe a yearly automatic update, even if it means the site to be off for a whole day, will make the numbers and stats better, not only for the people that like them, but to compare games, difficulty, popularity, and keep psnp the best option for trophy hunters/ people that just like trophies.

 

I don't really know about programming or how the site works, so any different advice it's welcome😊, obviously!

Edited September 18, 2023 by Jeanolt

[DrBloodmoney]

...but if the site did that then what would people point to as evidence when they rant and rave about how games have all got easier?

 

 

[JAK-KRIEG]

Definitely we need this, I totally agree 👍 idk what else to say it would be great to have games being tracked correctly again.

[ThatMuttGuy]

29 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

...but if the site did that then what would people point to as evidence when they rant and rave about how games have all got easier?

 

 

 

I mean, is it even debatable that trophies have, on the whole, gotten way easier each gen? Sure, you have outliers and not every game is easy, but plats just aren't as difficult as they used to be on PS3.

 

I don't view it as a bad thing, but it is indeed a thing. 

[DrBloodmoney]

2 minutes ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

 

I mean, is it even debatable that trophies have, on the whole, gotten way easier each gen? Sure, you have outliers and not every game is easy, but plats just aren't as difficult as they used to be on PS3.

 

I don't view it as a bad thing, but it is indeed a thing. 

 

I find them about the same TBH.

Some easier than others, but I don't really find them to be on the whole, system-wide level to be easier or harder in my experience.

 

There's certainly more developer know-how, and less stupid trophy lists now, as devs have settled into a more uniform "this is what a trophy list should be" groove - there is less in the way of "Do X 50,000 times!" type trophies...

 

...but generally, I find the only thing making games easier is the same thing that has been steadily making all games easier since the days of the Commodore 64:

QOL improvements, UI improvements, and controller input improvements.

 

All of which, for sure, does mean games are getting easier...

...but as far was I can tell, it's not so much the case of games being designed to be easier, as it is games having less accidental difficulty added by wonky controls or piss-poor design.

 

My two cents, of course!

 

[CabDK]

The tracking is way off on this site, for example 17k+ Baldur's Gate owners on psntl and only 5k here. And it's like that with most new games, tracking is broken on psnp and has been for years.

Edited September 18, 2023 by CabDK

[D-E-U-S-X]

Although I would like the statistics to be more accurate through regular profile updates, it is difficult due to the high data transfers. Even if 1/365th of the 6 million profiles are updated every day, that's ultimately 16,438 profiles. Sly will know whether this is technically possible or not.

[MidnightDragon]

Wouldn't be a bad idea, but good luck on making it happen.

[Jeanolt]

59 minutes ago, ThatMuttGuy said:

 

I mean, is it even debatable that trophies have, on the whole, gotten way easier each gen? Sure, you have outliers and not every game is easy, but plats just aren't as difficult as they used to be on PS3.

 

I don't view it as a bad thing, but it is indeed a thing. 

It is true that they're easier, but not that easier. If you take a look at, for example the RE Series, the difference in the % is huge between PS3 and PS4, specially RE4 which is at 33%, a nonsensical number. I mean, most people that sign here are full time trophy hunters, so it doesn't reflect the real number at all, making the PSN numbers closer to the actual average.

 

I'm not sure about this, but I read somewhere that games sell more in their first two weeks, than the rest of their lifetime, with some popular exceptions. That should reflect somehow in the stats, but it doesn't sadly, with numbers moving up super slowly.

 

40 minutes ago, D-E-U-S-X said:

Although I would like the statistics to be more accurate through regular profile updates, it is difficult due to the high data transfers. Even if 1/365th of the 6 million profiles are updated every day, that's ultimately 16,438 profiles. Sly will know whether this is technically possible or not.

You're right, I hope there's a way to sort this out. Maybe just uploading profiles higher than a certain level, although that alone could be harder than the former option.

 

I suggested this because I know it was a part of the site, so in theory is possible (I think!)

Edited September 18, 2023 by Jeanolt

[pinkrobot_pb]

Let's first purge all the profiles that do not even have more than 1 or 2 plats to their name and have been dead for years. It's about 75% of fluff that skews the stats. Getting rid of them is easy and will mean much less of a strain on Sony's servers automatically.

 

And yeah I know that would mean I would lose about 90% of my PS3 UR trophies, but screw it.

 

Quote

... even if it means the site to be off for a whole day ...

 

Also, the above quote points to a misunderstanding. It is not the burden on PSNP that seems to be the problem, but the amount of requests sent to Playstation's PSN servers. Sly - quite understandably - does not want to get blacklisted by Playstation, because that would leave this whole site dead in the water.

Edited September 18, 2023 by pinkrobot_pb

[LadyGallethX3]

Not everyone wants to be added here and be updated automatically.

[dmland12]

43 minutes ago, D-E-U-S-X said:

Although I would like the statistics to be more accurate through regular profile updates, it is difficult due to the high data transfers. Even if 1/365th of the 6 million profiles are updated every day, that's ultimately 16,438 profiles. Sly will know whether this is technically possible or not.

 

For reference, TrueTrophies updated profiles about 120,000 times in the last 24 hours and TrueAchievements (the main XBox achievement tracking site) updated profiles about 730,000 times in the last 24 hours.  I'm not aware of any other sites that keep track of such stats (and make them available publicly), but it appears to be technically possible to process things at far in excess of that rate.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the site to update people at some regular schedule.  Even if it's an infrequent one.

[JAK-KRIEG]

29 minutes ago, pinkrobot_pb said:

Let's first purge all the profiles that do not even have more than 1 or 2 plats to their name and have been dead for years. It's about 75% of fluff that skews the stats. Getting rid of them is easy and will mean much less of a strain on Sony's servers automatically.

 

And yeah I know that would mean I would lose about 90% of my PS3 UR trophies, but screw it.

 

 

Also, the above quote points to a misunderstanding. It is not the burden on PSNP that seems to be the problem, but the amount of requests sent to Playstation's PSN servers. Sly - quite understandably - does not want to get blacklisted by Playstation, because that would leave this whole site dead in the water.

Doesn't really matter about the PS3 urs being lost its the same for everyone, personally I don't give a flying feck. Newer games, primarily PS4 games, will automatically become rarer and possibly make up for lost ground. 🤔

[Jeanolt]

33 minutes ago, LadyGallethX3 said:

Not everyone wants to be added here and be updated automatically.

True but it's public information. If we delete the people that don't want to be here, games like GTA IV, Wipeout, Motorstorm, would be 10%. 

 

I know quite a few people that would be bothered lol. Rarity of those old games is totally dependant of legacy accounts

 

A change in the update frequency would allow for more UR trophies, maybe allowing more traffic and interest in the site.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Jeanolt

[TheYuriG]

I'm more interested in purging the dead accounts than in updating them. It makes me wonder how many of my 2.6k UR trophies and 206 UR platinums would stay that way. I've played more than my fair share of games that didn't deserve to be UR, but are (like most CODs).

[CabDK]

57 minutes ago, JAK-KRIEG said:

Doesn't really matter about the PS3 urs being lost its the same for everyone, personally I don't give a flying feck. Newer games, primarily PS4 games, will automatically become rarer and possibly make up for lost ground. 🤔

Very bad idea in my opinion. However it may not be necessary to update inactive accounts indefinitely, but it definitely has to be longer than 6 months or whatever it is now.

[JAK-KRIEG]

11 minutes ago, CabDK said:

Very bad idea in my opinion. However it may not be necessary to update inactive accounts indefinitely, but it definitely has to be longer than 6 months or whatever it is now.

Its not something I'm advocating for and I agree it's a bad idea Cab.

 

I wouldn't lose sleep over it though if it did happen.

Edited September 18, 2023 by JAK-KRIEG

[CabDK]

4 minutes ago, JAK-KRIEG said:

Its not something I'm advocating for and I agree it's a bad idea Cab.

Yes I know I just ment the idea in general

[TurtlePM]

Naah, it won't happen. After around 400 account updates, his IP would be temporarily blocked for too many requests 😆

 

I honestly don't see the point here, though. There are thousands of players that don't trophy hunt anymore, but they did back then and they are in the leaderboards for a reason. If people want to boost to the top, there are multiple shovelwares to help you, something PS3 didn't have. If you yearly update a dead account, this won't change anything, unless the player bothered to manually remove its account or put it private. My old account is still online in PSNProfiles after 10 years without any new trophy, PSNP can't remove it unless I ask for it OR I gain access again to my account to turn it private. And I doubt many players have actually done that after changing their accounts, so in the end, it won't change that much. Specially UR like GTA V, you need to remove thousands of "Dead accounts" for it to become Very Rare.

[Jeanolt]

1 hour ago, TurtlePM said:

Naah, it won't happen. After around 400 account updates, his IP would be temporarily blocked for too many requests 😆

 

I honestly don't see the point here, though. There are thousands of players that don't trophy hunt anymore, but they did back then and they are in the leaderboards for a reason. If people want to boost to the top, there are multiple shovelwares to help you, something PS3 didn't have. If you yearly update a dead account, this won't change anything, unless the player bothered to manually remove its account or put it private. My old account is still online in PSNProfiles after 10 years without any new trophy, PSNP can't remove it unless I ask for it OR I gain access again to my account to turn it private. And I doubt many players have actually done that after changing their accounts, so in the end, it won't change that much. Specially UR like GTA V, you need to remove thousands of "Dead accounts" for it to become Very Rare.

The problem is that accounts don't update anymore if you aren't premium, never. Not every person that likes trophies talks english, is here in PSNP often, and the huge majority aren't even premium members. Even I have friends on PSN that don't use the site and still hunt platinums.

 

It's like we are comparing the numbers within our club, meanwhile the PS3 games are compared to everyone. 

 

I feel like it would be closer to reality if we update the leaderboards. The other day I updated 5 random people that were behind me, four of them passed me, two of them by 20 levels or more.

 

What I mean is, trophies don't lose value after a period of time, they are still valid achievements, even if they stop playing. 

 

It's like winning a Grand Slam and pretending to be better than Federer just because he isn't active anymore and his numbers are deleted somehow.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Jeanolt

[sepheroithisgod]

Accounts updating more regularly will certainly help. Having a bigger sample size will help see truer rarities. Would also not make the site feel so dead, as it is baffling that the top-played games of the week look so... underpopulated. Baldur's Gate 3 should be massive based on sales figures. Yet, it's rocking a modest 2.2k player 🤔

 

With this said, I don't think it will be a massive rarity change for many games. The reason the PS3 games are much rarer is that originally, this site would add random users from your friends list (or something to that effect) and essentially it would fill the site with a bunch of users that are not actually trophy hunters by any metric. As such, the rarities are much lower just because you have a lot of non-trophy hunters being tracked for those titles.

And as others have said, earning the platinum in games has just gotten objectively easier over the years.

[Dry]

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

I mean, what’s written on the “update profile” box visible on the front page is false and @Sly Ripper needs to either correct it or consider going back on his decision one way or another. Personally, I’d like to see the latter be true with knowledge of competing profile/trophy tracking websites continuing auto-updates without giving Sony’s servers a headache (as evident on @CabDK’s topic reply comparing Baldur’s Gate III game owners on TL vs. PSNP).

[DrBloodmoney]

The site has come full circle with this stuff…

 

…for as long as I can remember, folks have dismissed the PSN Rarities as irrelevant, because they include non-trophy-hunters, and have almost unanimously held up the PSNP Rarities as the more “accurate” ones, due to the reduced sample size.

 

Now that the PSNP Rarities have actually reduced their sample size further - to literally only include active trophy hunters though…

… people are suddenly seeing virtually all rarities skyrocketing, and are requesting that they go back to including profiles that aren’t actively engaged with trophies, just to bring them back down?

[pinkrobot_pb]

21 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

The site has come full circle with this stuff…

 

…for as long as I can remember, folks have dismissed the PSN Rarities as irrelevant, because they include non-trophy-hunters, and have almost unanimously held up the PSNP Rarities as the more “accurate” ones, due to the reduced sample size.

 

Now that the PSNP Rarities have actually reduced their sample size further - to literally only include active trophy hunters though…

… people are suddenly seeing virtually all rarities skyrocketing, and are requesting that they go back to including profiles that aren’t actively engaged with trophies, just to bring them back down?

 

There is something to be said about a happy medium where chasing UR trophies is fun and challenging but not impossible. I do not think artificially creating more engagement is bad per se. I do not mind any rarity sculpting in that regard (despite my suggestion to ditch all inactive PS3 era profiles that never got more than 1 or 2 plats).

 

What you are outlining is a very good reason to ditch any sense of elitism though, because in the end the only true percentages are the ones on PSN itself. Everything else is just our own invention to make it more fun.

 

I also think it is good to keep in mind that the people on this website are on the whole different than the demographic around 10 years ago. In that periode the 'worst' thing that could be on your profile was Magus. The community changed a lot in that regard, and is therefor not unlikely to ask for different things.

Edited September 23, 2023 by pinkrobot_pb

[Shikotei-kun]

On 9/18/2023 at 7:08 PM, D-E-U-S-X said:

Although I would like the statistics to be more accurate through regular profile updates, it is difficult due to the high data transfers. Even if 1/365th of the 6 million profiles are updated every day, that's ultimately 16,438 profiles. Sly will know whether this is technically possible or not.

16k profiles per day equals 684 per hour, which would boil down to one profile every 5-6 seconds.

Given that Premium accounts are updated every 6 hours, you'd need about 4109 accounts to fill those 6 hours when updating one profile every 5-6 seconds. I think there's that many already. Even if there aren't, you'd have the hundreds-of-thousand of non-premium accounts that get updated somewhat regularly. So it's definitely possible to update everyone currently tracked about once a year.

 

Adding the knowledge that PSNP doesn't update your profile's settings if you haven't earned a trophy the since last sync happened, it's even possible to auto-mark profiles as abandoned/dead/inactive. Sly probably does this by checking the number of trophies earned vs what his database has stored. If they're equal, the site marks the sync action as "complete".

 

On 9/18/2023 at 8:41 PM, TheYuriG said:

I'm more interested in purging the dead accounts than in updating them.

Just because an account is no longer active, doesn't mean it should be purged from the system. This is a bad take.

 

On 9/18/2023 at 11:14 PM, sepheroithisgod said:

Baldur's Gate 3 should be massive based on sales figures. Yet, it's rocking a modest 2.2k player 🤔

You do realize the "recent players" is purely based on their recent trophy unlocks, right? For instance, I will never be on Nioh's recent player list now that I unlocked my last trophy for it. Even if I were still playing while not having earned every last trophy, I would only be shown in it if that last unlock happened fairly recently (a week or two, I think is the window).