The WWE Discussion Thread

[TVDex252]

So WWE Word Heavyweight Title brackets are in...what the hell did Barrett do to deserve a title shot opportunity? Besides being Dad of the Year what did Titus O'Neil do also? Also Kalisto? Shouldn't Kofi and Big E be included (as they are the tag champs)? Wouldn't Heyman have pushed for Brock to be included? This is a very weird tournament .

 

Bracket A:

*Big Show vs. Roman Reigns.

*Sheamus vs. Cesaro.

*Ryback vs. Kalisto.

*WWE United States champion Alberto Del Rio vs. Stardust.

Bracket B:

*WWE Intercontinental champion Kevin Owens vs. Titus O'Neil.

*King Barrett vs. Neville.

*The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler.

*Tyler Breeze vs. Dean Ambrose.

Welcome to the WWE where we can't build up stars the right way so we have to make sure the ones we do have never really lose clean. A world title tournament that they needed to fill it up with jobbers, really shows you how well WWE creative is doing!

[Dr_Mayus]

Welcome to the WWE where we can't build up stars the right way so we have to make sure the ones we do have never really lose clean. A world title tournament that they needed to fill it up with jobbers, really shows you how well WWE creative is doing!

Oh yeah this tournament really shows how pathetic their star power is (not that the people don't have talent...just they aren't main event over). Think about the attitude era. If Austin went down you could have a tournament with Rock, HHH, Kurt Angle, Big Show, Taker, Kane, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Edge etc. It would take awhile before you hit the Al Snows or Crash Hollys.

 

But for fun let us predict the winners of the tournaments.

 

FIRST ROUND

Bracket A:

*Big Show vs. Roman Reigns-Winner

*Sheamus vs Cesaro-Winner

*Kalisto vs Ryback-Winner

*Stardust vs Alberto Del Rio-Winner.

Bracket B:

* Titus O'Neil vs Kevin Owens-Winner

*King Barrett vs. Neville-Winner.

*The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler-Winner

*Dean Ambrose vs Tyler Breeze-Winner

[GoldenShaka]

So WWE Word Heavyweight Title brackets are in...what the hell did Barrett do to deserve a title shot opportunity? Besides being Dad of the Year what did Titus O'Neil do also? Also Kalisto? Shouldn't Kofi and Big E be included (as they are the tag champs)? Wouldn't Heyman have pushed for Brock to be included? This is a very weird tournament .

 

Bracket A:

*Big Show vs. Roman Reigns.

*Sheamus vs. Cesaro.

*Ryback vs. Kalisto.

*WWE United States champion Alberto Del Rio vs. Stardust.

Bracket B:

*WWE Intercontinental champion Kevin Owens vs. Titus O'Neil.

*King Barrett vs. Neville.

*The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler.

*Tyler Breeze vs. Dean Ambrose.

Well, you have many fillers there: Stardust, The Miz, Tyler Breeze, Big Show, Kalisto.

Don't see them farther than that. I'm agree about Kofi should be there. 

[ShadowSigmaX]

Oh yeah this tournament really shows how pathetic their star power is (not that the people don't have talent...just they aren't main event over). Think about the attitude era. If Austin went down you could have a tournament with Rock, HHH, Kurt Angle, Big Show, Taker, Kane, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Edge etc. It would take awhile before you hit the Al Snows or Crash Hollys.

 

But for fun let us predict the winners of the tournaments.

 

FIRST ROUND

Bracket A:

*Big Show vs. Roman Reigns-Winner

*Sheamus vs Cesaro-Winner

*Kalisto vs Ryback-Winner

*Stardust vs Alberto Del Rio-Winner.

Bracket B:

* Titus O'Neil vs Kevin Owens-Winner

*King Barrett vs. Neville-Winner.

*The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler-Winner

*Dean Ambrose vs Tyler Breeze-Winner

I approve of your picks!

[TVDex252]

Well, you have many fillers there: Stardust, The Miz, Tyler Breeze, Big Show, Kalisto.

Don't see them farther than that. I'm agree about Kofi should be there. 

 

Big Show could pass for a main eventer in this tourney, I know people like to shit on him but he's not awful. As for the rest, they are either jobbers or simply NXT talent that have yet to do anything worthy of getting such an oppertunity. Kofi and Big E should have been in this. Rusev would have been a better option than Kalisto, Titus, or Stardust. I know he's been losing a lot of matches lately but at least he has some credibility.

 

And don't get me wrong, Cody and Kalisto are fantastic performers but how is anyone supposed to take them even remotely serious in this tournament. WWE REALLY needs to work on their mid card because I can't remember the last time the roster looked this stale.

[PREDRAG-K]

Oh yeah this tournament really shows how pathetic their star power is (not that the people don't have talent...just they aren't main event over). Think about the attitude era. If Austin went down you could have a tournament with Rock, HHH, Kurt Angle, Big Show, Taker, Kane, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Edge etc. It would take awhile before you hit the Al Snows or Crash Hollys.

But for fun let us predict the winners of the tournaments.

FIRST ROUND

Bracket A:

*Big Show vs. Roman Reigns-Winner

*Sheamus vs Cesaro-Winner

*Kalisto vs Ryback-Winner

*Stardust vs Alberto Del Rio-Winner.

Bracket B:

* Titus O'Neil vs Kevin Owens-Winner

*King Barrett vs. Neville-Winner.

*The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler-Winner

*Dean Ambrose vs Tyler Breeze-Winner

I agree with all your picks, except the last one. Dean isn't going out in the first round. He'll beat Breeze. Then face Ziggler in round 2, where Breeze will screw Ziggler out of the victory.

EDIT: Total forgot Raw was tonight. I was at work. Just realized I replied with a prediction for something that already happened lol. At least my prediction was right so far.

I'm also confused as to how they chose the top half. Seamus vs. Cesaro in round 1? Winner will obviously face Roman. So, does Cesaro lose in the first round, and they piss everyone off? Or does he make it to round 2, lose to Roman, and they piss everyone off even more?

Edited November 10, 2015 by PREDRAG-K

[Dr_Mayus]

I agree with all your picks, except the last one. Dean isn't going out in the first round. He'll beat Breeze. Then face Ziggler in round 2, where Breeze will screw Ziggler out of the victory.

EDIT: Total forgot Raw was tonight. I was at work. Just realized I replied with a prediction for something that already happened lol. At least my prediction was right so far.

I'm also confused as to how they chose the top half. Seamus vs. Cesaro in round 1? Winner will obviously face Roman. So, does Cesaro lose in the first round, and they piss everyone off? Or does he make it to round 2, lose to Roman, and they piss everyone off even more?

 

My thinking was if they beat Tyler so early then it will be another Neville situation where they bring up a popular NXT guy and have him lose a bunch. I thought they beat Ambrose and then Ambrose comes back later and screws Roman out of the title.

 

Also the Cesaro thing is stupid. You are trying to build up Roman so you put him against the most popular person in the tournament. They know Roman will get booed now if he wins. It is just dumb booking.

[Karnacharya]

Well, the WWE's writers tend to be experts on dumb booking, so this is pretty par for the course.

[PREDRAG-K]

They shouldn't have made it so predictable. I mean, we all know it'll be Dean and Roman in the finals. But at least set up the tournament to make us think that someone else has a chance. Really, look at bracket B. Gee, I wonder who's gonna win? The only one who has a chance, besides Dean, is Owens. But he's the IC champion, so he's not winning.

Meanwhile, bracket A has Roman, Mr. MITB Sheamus (why is he in this?), the returning Del Rio, Ryback, and Cesaro. Bracket A is actual contenders, bracket B is the Smackdown crew of midcarders.

[ShadowSigmaX]

I agree this tournament is way to predictable...I turned off RAW half way through last night after realizing the bracket set up...Might as well scrap the whole thing and just name it Roman VS Dean for the title, and Dean sells out...

[PREDRAG-K]

I agree this tournament is way to predictable...I turned off RAW half way through last night after realizing the bracket set up...Might as well scrap the whole thing and just name it Roman VS Dean for the title, and Dean sells out...

The only fun part about this tournament is guessing if Dean or Roman will turn. I'm betting on Roman. I don't know if Vince's love of Roman can overcome HHH's love of Seth. Seth will definitely be back as a face, and he needs a mega heel from the Authority to fight. Dean's character is too unstable to be controlled by corporate. Meanwhile, Roman's original FCW character was a douche rich man, suit wearing jerk.

[TVDex252]

My thinking was if they beat Tyler so early then it will be another Neville situation where they bring up a popular NXT guy and have him lose a bunch. I thought they beat Ambrose and then Ambrose comes back later and screws Roman out of the title.

 

Also the Cesaro thing is stupid. You are trying to build up Roman so you put him against the most popular person in the tournament. They know Roman will get booed now if he wins. It is just dumb booking.

 

I honestly don't think they booked Neville poorly. He came up, was put into a few noteworthy matches against people like Cena and Rollins and lost. He's supposed to be seen as the "rookie" so you would expect him to lose to the top dogs. He even almost beat Cena if I remember correctly. He's lost some matches here and there versus guys who have been mid carders for a couple of years now but for the most part he's showcased on TV. Let his character build a bit from here and then start putting him in bigger and better storylines, maybe one with Owens for the IC title around Wrestlemania season?

[Dr_Mayus]

I honestly don't think they booked Neville poorly. He came up, was put into a few noteworthy matches against people like Cena and Rollins and lost. He's supposed to be seen as the "rookie" so you would expect him to lose to the top dogs. He even almost beat Cena if I remember correctly. He's lost some matches here and there versus guys who have been mid carders for a couple of years now but for the most part he's showcased on TV. Let his character build a bit from here and then start putting him in bigger and better storylines, maybe one with Owens for the IC title around Wrestlemania season?

 

The problem is the companies ratings are falling every week. They are in their biggest slump in years. Orton and Rollins go down and Cena takes time off and they are scrambling to make some new top guys.

 

Losing every now and then is OK but they bring people up and have them lose constantly. Even though they are losing against top guys it doesn't matter, people see them as losers. Here is a thought instead of having them lose against top guys...DON'T BOOK THEM AGAINST TOP GUYS. Have them work there way up to John Cena or Orton so they can get some wins under their belts first.

 

Look at someone like Owens, the guy had all the steam in the world until he lost twice cleanly to Cena and now he is fighting his way back up. Wouldn't it have been better to have him beat Cena and then when Cena wants his rematch, Owens could be like "No...I beat you cleanly and now you can work YOUR way back up to fighting me again" Then you can tease that rematch for months and then at Wrestlemania or Rumble you can have the two  go at it again and it means so much more. They ran through half a year of program in a month...and they wonder why people don't care anymore.

[TVDex252]

The problem is the companies ratings are falling every week. They are in their biggest slump in years. Orton and Rollins go down and Cena takes time off and they are scrambling to make some new top guys.

 

Losing every now and then is OK but they bring people up and have them lose constantly. Even though they are losing against top guys it doesn't matter, people see them as losers. Here is a thought instead of having them lose against top guys...DON'T BOOK THEM AGAINST TOP GUYS. Have them work there way up to John Cena or Orton so they can get some wins under their belts first.

 

Look at someone like Owens, the guy had all the steam in the world until he lost twice cleanly to Cena and now he is fighting his way back up. Wouldn't it have been better to have him beat Cena and then when Cena wants his rematch, Owens could be like "No...I beat you cleanly and now you can work YOUR way back up to fighting me again" Then you can tease that rematch for months and then at Wrestlemania or Rumble you can have the two  go at it again and it means so much more. They ran through half a year of program in a month...and they wonder why people don't care anymore.

 

In a perfect world that would be great but with the WWEs lack of mid card it just isn't possible lol I would totally agree with you if the guys who were on the mid card actually had any credibilty whatsoever. If Neville beats Barrett, Sheamus and The Miz, what does he really get out of it? I'd argue facing Cena in the biggest time slot of the show and losing in a great match would get him more over than beating people who have been jobbing out to Sin Cara. WWE needs to bring up a few more NXT guys and establish a decent mid card with talent that the casual crowd hasn't already labeled as the Job Squad 2.0. Sheamus can still be saved, Cesaro is over enough where it doesn't matter if he's losing the crowd will always cheer for him but the rest of the mid card except for maybe Dolph Ziggler is in permanant purgatory.

 

Kevin Owens, Cesaro, Neville, Sami Zayn, Tyler Breeze, Sheamus and maybe a few other smaller talents from NXT like Hideo Itami could easily establish a GOOD mid card. WWE just has to work towards building that up. Also I feel like the higher up talents like Cena, Orton, Daniel Bryan should only wrestle twice a month from now on. Once on Raw and once at whatever PPV of the month. WWE's talent pool isn't deep enough to risk injuries and people are getting tired of seeing the same exact matches over and over. I dont want Daniel Bryan to come back, start up a feud with Kevin Owens, have forty-seven matches on Raw and Smackdown and then another match at Royal Rumble that no one will care about. Keep these guys on TV but don't book them in matches, let the mid card establish themselves by putting on great matches for the US/IC title in the main event slot every now and then.

[Dr_Mayus]

In a perfect world that would be great but with the WWEs lack of mid card it just isn't possible lol I would totally agree with you if the guys who were on the mid card actually had any credibilty whatsoever. If Neville beats Barrett, Sheamus and The Miz, what does he really get out of it? I'd argue facing Cena in the biggest time slot of the show and losing in a great match would get him more over than beating people who have been jobbing out to Sin Cara. WWE needs to bring up a few more NXT guys and establish a decent mid card with talent that the casual crowd hasn't already labeled as the Job Squad 2.0. Sheamus can still be saved, Cesaro is over enough where it doesn't matter if he's losing the crowd will always cheer for him but the rest of the mid card except for maybe Dolph Ziggler is in permanant purgatory.

 

Kevin Owens, Cesaro, Neville, Sami Zayn, Tyler Breeze, Sheamus and maybe a few other smaller talents from NXT like Hideo Itami could easily establish a GOOD mid card. WWE just has to work towards building that up. Also I feel like the higher up talents like Cena, Orton, Daniel Bryan should only wrestle twice a month from now on. Once on Raw and once at whatever PPV of the month. WWE's talent pool isn't deep enough to risk injuries and people are getting tired of seeing the same exact matches over and over. I dont want Daniel Bryan to come back, start up a feud with Kevin Owens, have forty-seven matches on Raw and Smackdown and then another match at Royal Rumble that no one will care about. Keep these guys on TV but don't book them in matches, let the mid card establish themselves by putting on great matches for the US/IC title in the main event slot every now and then.

You nailed the biggest problem the company has. They for too long were happy with Cena and Orton on top (with a few other guys like Punk and Bryan that got over despite the companies best efforts) that they let the rest of the roster suffer.

 

Now the only way to fix it is almost hitting a Do Over button and bringing up a bunch of people that aren't complete losers. The problem is their ratings keep falling so they are in panic mode (which is where Brock vs Taker 3 come in) but part time stars aren't helping. Sure bringing the Rock and Rhonda Rousey in for Mania will boost buys a bit but what about the day after Mania when the stars go away and you are left with Damien Sandow vs Star Dust again.

 

I think they should pick 3 or 4 people on their roster and just concentrate on making them stars right now. Get rid of the Even Steven booking and just have your Cesaros and Owens WIN. Stop doing the same matches over and over so fans get sick of them before the payoff. Get rid of the lame finishes (I don't remember count outs happening that often back in the day) and get rid of Gimmick PPVs. Something like Hell in the Cell should be a 'HOLY SHIT' moment not "It's October...time for the cell" And the biggest thing...DON'T JOB OUT YOUR CHAMPIONS.

 

In my opinion I would like for every match the Champ is in to be a title match. It makes no sense that the Champion loses a match but is still the champion. It makes every match that isn't a title match completely useless because there is nothing on the line. Or as Nikki Bella says "wins and losses don't matter"

[TVDex252]

You nailed the biggest problem the company has. They for too long were happy with Cena and Orton on top (with a few other guys like Punk and Bryan that got over despite the companies best efforts) that they let the rest of the roster suffer.

 

Now the only way to fix it is almost hitting a Do Over button and bringing up a bunch of people that aren't complete losers. The problem is their ratings keep falling so they are in panic mode (which is where Brock vs Taker 3 come in) but part time stars aren't helping. Sure bringing the Rock and Rhonda Rousey in for Mania will boost buys a bit but what about the day after Mania when the stars go away and you are left with Damien Sandow vs Star Dust again.

 

I think they should pick 3 or 4 people on their roster and just concentrate on making them stars right now. Get rid of the Even Steven booking and just have your Cesaros and Owens WIN. Stop doing the same matches over and over so fans get sick of them before the payoff. Get rid of the lame finishes (I don't remember count outs happening that often back in the day) and get rid of Gimmick PPVs. Something like Hell in the Cell should be a 'HOLY SHIT' moment not "It's October...time for the cell" And the biggest thing...DON'T JOB OUT YOUR CHAMPIONS.

 

In my opinion I would like for every match the Champ is in to be a title match. It makes no sense that the Champion loses a match but is still the champion. It makes every match that isn't a title match completely useless because there is nothing on the line. Or as Nikki Bella says "wins and losses don't matter"

 

Honestly I feel like bringing in the part timers is only hurting the rest of the roster. You have your top guys like Cena and Orton, then above them are the part timers, Brock, Taker, Rock, Triple H and Sting and then you have everyone else. When you advertise the top guys so strongly and then the part timers even stronger the fans look at the rest of the roster as joke. They are just place holders because the biggest stars don't wanna or simply can't work enough dates. How is a Cesaro ever supposed to reach superstar status when the moment Brock, HHH and Taker come back he's sent back down to the bottom of the card. Then when they leave we're supposed to take him seriously again?

 

I complete agree with you, it's time for a do over and the only way that can happen is if Vince gives Triple H and Steph control. Get rid of Kevin Dunn't know shit about the business and start rebuilding the roster from the ground up. Get rid of the 12-16 guys they never ever use on TV and bring up a few NXT guys. Start pushing Cesaro, Owens, Balor & Ambrose as the next top guys while Bray Wyatt, Reigns, Rollins continue to establish themselves as main event calibar talent. Then you have guys like Neville, Sheamus, Big E, Ziggler, Breeze, Sami Zayn (once he returns which I believe will be soon) fighting it out for the mid card titles in feuds that actually matter. They have the talent they need under contract, they are just completely misutilizing them.

 

I also feel like we need more stables and factions like the Wyatts and New Day. It's an easy way to put common elements together and giving them all time to shine. You won't have enough time or space to put everyone on TV as singles wrestlers so pair them up. Let them work together and maybe you'll have a star break out from the pack. It worked for The Rock, Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista and so many more guys. Big E and Kofi were doing absolutely nothing on the roster for years until they put them in the New Day and they have been one of the most interesting things on TV for months.

[SergeantMalon]

Wrestling Observer talks WM32 plans. http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/1111/603707/backstage-talk-on-possible-wrestlemania-32-plans-for-top-wwe/

[OnePieceDude]

SOMEBODY CALL MY MOM-MA

[Dr_Mayus]

Wrestling Observer talks WM32 plans. http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/1111/603707/backstage-talk-on-possible-wrestlemania-32-plans-for-top-wwe/

I keep seeing people who think Ronda Rousey should wrestle at Mania...how would that even work?

 

Rousey is someone who beats people in under a minute. People bitch and moan about how short the women's matches are so imagine if they got Ronda Rousey and the match ended in 30 seconds. How could they ever criticize another Diva's match if this one went shorter than any other Diva's match in history.

 

OR they could have her wrestle a 10 minute match but then UFC would be mad because they are booking her as a killer yet it takes her 10 minutes to put away a women when it normally takes her a minute. It would kill a bit of her momentum.

 

There is no way to book a match where A) The match is any good and the UFC, the WWE and Fans are happy. Honestly I know she is the Internet darling right now but she isn't worth the money to bring in as she really couldn't do anything but add a "star" name to the show.

[PREDRAG-K]

I keep seeing people who think Ronda Rousey should wrestle at Mania...how would that even work?

 

Rousey is someone who beats people in under a minute. People bitch and moan about how short the women's matches are so imagine if they got Ronda Rousey and the match ended in 30 seconds. How could they ever criticize another Diva's match if this one went shorter than any other Diva's match in history.

 

OR they could have her wrestle a 10 minute match but then UFC would be mad because they are booking her as a killer yet it takes her 10 minutes to put away a women when it normally takes her a minute. It would kill a bit of her momentum.

 

There is no way to book a match where A) The match is any good and the UFC, the WWE and Fans are happy. Honestly I know she is the Internet darling right now but she isn't worth the money to bring in as she really couldn't do anything but add a "star" name to the show.

 

I don't see her wrestling. But she will likely be in Rock's corner for a Rock/HHH match. Maybe put Steph in an armbar or something. 

 

However, if she were to wrestle, she could be booked like a female Lesnar. Have her suplex the shit out of Steph for a few minutes or so. Show that she could easily win in 30 seconds, but she wants to play around with her opponent.

[Goro]

On this day 10 years ago, we lost the legendary Eddie Guerrero and the wrestling industry has never been the same since, RIP Latino Heat! Viva La Raza!

[ronin_leon]

Article from Forbes Sports: http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonydimoro/2015/11/12/wwe-may-be-forced-to-finally-turn-john-cena-heel/

[Dr_Mayus]

Quarter Finals

 

*Roman Reigns vs. Cesaro.

*Kalisto vs. Alberto Del Rio.

*Kevin Owens vs. Neville.

*Dolph Ziggler vs. Dean Ambrose.

 

The winners to these matches are very obvious but some thoughts on the Tournament.

 

I still don't think they should have beat Breeze in the first round. I know Ambrose is the much bigger star but A) If Breeze is going to get over at all you can't have him lose his first match and B ) While Ambrose vs Reigns sounds like what they are going to do, I think it would have been better to have Owens vs Reigns with Ambrose costing Reigns the title. Owens and Ambrose become new top heels in a company that needs heels right now.

 

Also Roman vs Cesaro is just so stupid. I get it that they booked this match because Cesaro will be able to take Reigns to a great match (which Roman needs more great matches on his resume if he is going to be the next big guy) but if they are trying to book Reigns as the next top Babyface then why put him opposite the most popular wrestler on the roster. The WWE already muted the crowd on the last show, they will have to do it again to hide the cheers Cesaro will get and boos Reigns will get.

 

On top of that they are trying to get ADR to be a bigger heel (which is stupid since they want a Latino babyface and ADR would have been cheered if they didn't do the stupid Zeb Colter story) but anyways if they wanted him to be a heel, have him beat Cesaro. Beating a popular babyface will make you more of a heel.

 

I don't know, is booking this hard o_O

[m0nst3rG4m3r007]

I have a question, after watching the first 3 episodes of Breaking Ground, should I watch NXT? Considering I watch Raw and Smackdown and PPV's almost every time and only a the weekend because of school, is it worth cutting into my other tv shows and anime time or is it just going to be more of the same with a different roster?

[skidmarkgn]

should I watch NXT?

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!