Cheaters Policy

[ShinYagami13]

my friend first of all i m glad you took the time to check my profile to see i only "hacked" one

i didn't offer a solution or said why bother i just said dont take it out on the 30% you caught cause from the time i started reading this

you people look more like an angry mob on a witch hunt than the happy welcoming community you all

claim to be, like this guy that said - "i think they got away lightly , id like them all rounded up and a large dose of ebola dropped on their heads"

and gamerm was kind enough to press the like button too

now what can i say about your unlucky comparison of using a save & commiting murder?!

i can only respond the same way, the law believes that there are degrees of crime right? stealing a can of soda should bear the

same punisment as stealing a million $? hope you are old enough to get the metaphor

as a closure to show the system is not foolproof this guy here https://psnprofiles.com/Mythos18 got flagged and yesterday was pointing at

someone else so he can go down with him (i found that really funny) check what games he got flagged for and the completion on world at war & fuel

also i dont know if its a glitch or something but saw people whose completion time on some game was 40+ years

these are not flagged also

Edited August 24, 2012 by ShinYagami13

[daftprophet]

Looking forward to the manual flagging being implemented. There's one guy that's got a faster than allowed plat that's kind of a sore spot for me.

I feel ya on that one. I know a particular person who definitely hacked Shadow of the Colossus which is one of my favorite that I have earned. This is a difficult thing to handle and I think Sly is doing it well. It'd be impossible to catch all of the ones with the trophies that are "out of place"/"out of order"

What I mean is you simply cannot earn "trophy a" before "trophy b" therefore making it cheated or whatever you want to call it.

Sure trophies aren't everything, but I do enjoy them so that makes this important to me

[killerJAZZ420]

my friend first of all i m glad you took the time to check my profile to see i only "hacked" one

i didn't offer a solution or said why bother i just said dont take it out on the 30% you caught cause from the time i started reading this

you people look more like an angry mob on a witch hunt than the happy welcoming community you all

claim to be, like this guy that said - "i think they got away lightly , id like them all rounded up and a large dose of ebola dropped on their heads"

and gamerm was kind enough to press the like button too

now what can i say about your unlucky comparison of using a save & commiting murder?!

i can only respond the same way, the law believes that there are degrees of crime right? stealing a can of soda should bear the

same punisment as stealing a million $? hope you are old enough to get the metaphor

as a closure to show the system is not foolproof this guy here https://psnprofiles.com/Mythos18 got flagged and yesterday was pointing at

someone else so he can go down with him (i found that really funny) check what games he got flagged for and the completion on world at war & fuel

also i dont know if its a glitch or something but saw people whose completion time on some game was 40+ years

these are not flagged also

And this is what i was talking about. lets keep it clean. You made point some of these people are going overboard. You shown us that yes the system is flawed. But keep in mind it was only thrown in to play not even a week ago. Its going to take time.

[ShinYagami13]

And this is what i was talking about. lets keep it clean. You made point some of these people are going overboard. You shown us that yes the system is flawed. But keep in mind it was only thrown in to play not even a week ago. Its going to take time.

my friend as you see i try but it wont be long before someone will start to "attack" me on a personal level trust me

i will still keep the conversation like it is now since all the personal attacks will make the attacker look bad and your community not me

and i m not saying its not going to take time or anything just that it was a bit too harsh to treat everybody the same and unlike

other similar sites not show some tolerance

i m not talking about forgiving the one i got (socom) like someone said and hes absolutelly right whats the difference with any other

game "hacked" but forgiving one in general or if it was possible remove it completely from our stats

dont call me a cheater cause out of curiosity mostly i used one save! in response to those who will again start saying

once a cheater always a cheater and all of that i ll just say this - if i was a cheater/hacker or whatever you want to call it why did i cheat only 1?

why didn't i cheat fuel, lbp1, lbp2, sacred 2, mag, ffxiii, ffxxiii-2 etc.etc. and i busted my ass to earn them just to go to the fastest completionists

to see 5min, 6min or 10min completionists in each???

[mattybell2117]

my friend as you see i try but it wont be long before someone will start to "attack" me on a personal level trust me

i will still keep the conversation like it is now since all the personal attacks will make the attacker look bad and your community not me

and i m not saying its not going to take time or anything just that it was a bit too harsh to treat everybody the same and unlike

other similar sites not show some tolerance

i m not talking about forgiving the one i got (socom) like someone said and hes absolutelly right whats the difference with any other

game "hacked" but forgiving one in general or if it was possible remove it completely from our stats

dont call me a cheater cause out of curiosity mostly i used one save! in response to those who will again start saying

once a cheater always a cheater and all of that i ll just say this - if i was a cheater/hacker or whatever you want to call it why did i cheat only 1?

why didn't i cheat fuel, lbp1, lbp2, sacred 2, mag, ffxiii, ffxxiii-2 etc.etc. and i busted my ass to earn them just to go to the fastest completionists

to see 5min, 6min or 10min completionists in each???

You actually came in here and called yourself a cheater.... And you're not being labelled as a cheater, you're being flagged for cheating games which is exactly what you did. Whether you cheated 1 game or 10 games, it doesn't matter, you should still be flagged.

As far as other people's comments about hackers, were they a little harsh? Yes. Were they meant to be taken realistically? No. We're not going to literally drop an ebola virus or whatever onto every hacker. However, this community, and most trophy hunting communities in general, are not particularly accepting of people who hack games. If you want one that is, I suggest joining Next Gen Update.

And I don't see why you come in here and just assume everyone's going to attack you. Stop saying stuff like "I know I'm going to get attacked" or "don't call me a cheater" when no one has attacked you and you've been flagged as a cheater because you cheated. It's really very simple. If you have a suggestion on how to make sure more hackers get caught, we'd love to hear it. If you're trying to defend a person's right to hack games, you're not going to get very far on this site.

And please don't talk to me like I'm a child. When you say stuff like:

now what can i say about your unlucky comparison of using a save & commiting murder?!

i can only respond the same way, the law believes that there are degrees of crime right? stealing a can of soda should bear the

same punisment as stealing a million $? hope you are old enough to get the metaphor

it comes off as condescending. I understand what a metaphor is, I just used one a couple posts ago.

Again, I'm not saying they're on the same level but the metaphor still applies. I understand that there are varying degrees of crime but consider this site as having a "no tolerance policy" against hacking if it makes it easier to understand.

Edited August 24, 2012 by mattybell2117

[ionstorm777]

]i dont know if its a glitch or something but saw people whose completion time on some game was 40+ years[/b]

these are not flagged also

Hey, fellow gamer.

I guess you're new to this.

The reason ALOT of people have games with 41 years++ completion time is because all the trophies you earn before you go online on your account, will be without a timestamp, since the PS3's clock has not been synced yet. And all trophies without a timestamp will be labeled 1970-something.

Welcome to the site, btw.

[SitusKiss]

first timer here

cheater lol

waiting for the happy & welcoming community to give me a proper welcome

anyway to those who are going to blame me for this being my first post

i want to say in my defence that i wanted to post many times but i couldn't log in

thx to sly for helping with that & yes i should have asked how to sooner, no excuse there

but i m an active member of 2 other communities if that means anything lol

i been following this since it started so i dont really know where to start from

i ll write some & then you can start attacking me ok?

1. some kid said "now trophy hunting its fun again" so you being positioned 156.000th in the world was because

of the 3.700 that got flagged or because you only have 4 platinums?! Yay now you are 152.300th

2. how more than one person in one account isn't the same as using a save? somebody else did the job in both cases right?

3. to gamerm - get a life is what noobs that cant earn trophies say to those who can! try earning the rest 77 i earned legit

4. i m not complaining but going from complete tolerance to absolute intolerance is a bit extreme imo and anyway i would

be fine with it if the system was foolproof but lets not kid ourselves; how many you people think got flagged of all cheaters? 30% maybe

so stop taking it out on this 30% and try to find ways to catch the rest 70%

to whoever says its impossible i ll answer i know! so stop taking it out on the 30 you caught still goes

Sarcasm sets a nice tone

If you are looking for the friendly welcome to the site... you are in the wrong thread. Try going here: https://psnprofiles.com/forums/forum/13-introductions/ and creating a new thread; you can give us a little background about yourself and put forth a proper introduction.

You didn't really expect to jump into the most heated and controversial thread on the Forum and expect smiles and high-fives, did you? This is a pretty sensitive subject for some and emotions tend to run high.

[duck360]

Boosting isn't cheating, you can't even define boosting. You could try and define it as "helping each other to gain trophies" but is that really any different than saying "this trophy needs 10 knife kills so I'm only going to kill people with a knife"? When you aim for a specific trophy you're effectively boosting it for yourself.

Hunting for trophies != cheating.

Boosting is cheating so is using a guide.

It's like a race against someone to the top of a mountain except you know the easiest and fastest way while you shouldn't which made you win this race (That's like using a Trophy Guide)

Or like a normal running race except you're using a car (Like boosting... to make things faster)

Every little help is cheat but people will never agree why? Because everyone does it and when everyone does or say something you will agree with them even if they are wrong. It's not just psychological thing but it is also proven in mathematics. But anyway...

I'm not good with speeches and it's not my thing... I personally don't care. People bring the leaderboard to my FB page keep arguing whether I deserve it or not.... do I?

I don't care that you removed me and I won't care if you bring me back. I was indeed removed because I indeed cheated. What I wanna say is just something I want to get off my chest. I don't want it to change the rules in here or anything just... share my thoughts with you all.

What kind of price do I have to pay for my crimes? There is a story I love and I'm sure some of you know it. It's by Victor Huge called Les Miserables. It's a story of injustice of a man. He was put in prison for stealing a piece of bread when he was a bit young. He spent 19 years in prison for that crime. After they released him everyone treated him like a criminal, everyone (except for one guy but we're not gonna talk about him) his soul was destroy form the hatred they showed him so he stole a coin from a young boy. Just a coin! And the police were after him till the rest of his days. Why? Because the police said "A Criminal will always be a criminal".

Does that mean "A cheater will always be a cheater" ?? I cheated does it mean I'll be a cheater for the rest of my life no matter how small the cheat I did? Will you treat me the same way the people treated that man because of the small crime he did? Is this really Justice?

Of course that was just to see how does your spiritual feelings are. How about we move on to science. In science a thing has to be over 50% to be the name of that thing. Meaning... I cheated 6 games out of 600. That's 1% cheating and 99% not cheating. Will you call me a cheater/hacker because of that 1%? I wise man once said, ""If you hit 99% and missed 1% then the people will forget that 99% and will hate you for the 1%... this is our society"" and to be honest what he said is true. If a materiel is 99% Iron and 1% Gold will you still call it Gold?

If you haven't realized... I'm not saying this because I was removed I'm saying it because there are still many people hates me for what I did.

Sly, keep me removed if that makes things better in here. I won't and never will ask to be brought back because I don't need to. I just wanted everyone to know about the way I see their hatred.

(Replace all 'I' and "Me" that I have written with "We" and "Us" if you must)

[ShinYagami13]

You actually came in here and called yourself a cheater.... And you're not being labelled as a cheater, you're being flagged for cheating games which is exactly what you did. Whether you cheated 1 game or 10 games, it doesn't matter, you should still be flagged.

As far as other people's comments about hackers, were they a little harsh? Yes. Were they meant to be taken realistically? No. We're not going to literally drop an ebola virus or whatever onto every hacker. However, this community, and most trophy hunting communities in general, are not particularly accepting of people who hack games. If you want one that is, I suggest joining Next Gen Update.

And I don't see why you come in here and just assume everyone's going to attack you. Stop saying stuff like "I know I'm going to get attacked" or "don't call me a cheater" when no one has attacked you and you've been flagged as a cheater because you cheated. It's really very simple. If you have a suggestion on how to make sure more hackers get caught, we'd love to hear it. If you're trying to defend a person's right to hack games, you're not going to get very far on this site.

1. i wasn't calling myself a cheater, i was being sarcastic

2. how being on a leaderboard called dirty-with cheaters isn't labelling me?

3. i dont like hackers/cheaters either thats why i said i earned trophies myself just to find the fastest completionists were all hackers/cheaters

4. 1 and 10 makes a huge difference, you failed to respond why i didn't hack/cheat any more than 1

5. i wasn't not assuming everyone is going to attack me, i was certain of it having followed the topic from the beginning lol

6. and last but not least i m not trying to defend hackers/cheaters i just asked for some tolerance maybe on one time offenders

to my friend ionstorm thank you for the welcome & information; like i said i didn't know if it was a glitch and apparently it is

to my friend bmj i first signed in months ago, i wanted to participate in the forums but couldn't log in, i only asked sly how to today

and yes i could have asked earlier how to log in but like i said i m an active member of 2 other communities so i always said today i will

but never did and time passed by...

[Sir_Bee]

Boosting is cheating so is using a guide.

It's like a race against someone to the top of a mountain except you know the easiest and fastest way while you shouldn't which made you win this race (That's like using a Trophy Guide)

Or like a normal running race except you're using a car (Like boosting... to make things faster)

I disagree with this. If you are in a race up a mountain, you are expected to prepare by surveying the land, using maps and others experience so that you can decide to find the best way to the top. That all becomes part of the race. You still have to actually climb the mountain faster then your opponents, so you still earned the victory. Being prepared and well versed in the mountain is not cheating at all. By reading a guide, you are basically studying for a test. You still need to do all the work and get all the right answers and reactions while playing the game, so you still have to earn it.

As for boosting being like using a car in a running race, I think that is off as well. A better analogy would be the Tour De France. You use other riders to draft behind so you have an easier time and have more energy to sprint to the finish. That is part of the race. Same goes for being in a car race. The car out front has to do the most work, while the car behind him can draft and has an easier time. I think that 'drafting' is a much more accurate analogy for 'boosting'.

[ShinYagami13]

And please don't talk to me like I'm a child. When you say stuff like:

it comes off as condescending. I understand what a metaphor is, I just used one a couple posts ago.

Again, I'm not saying they're on the same level but the metaphor still applies. I understand that there are varying degrees of crime but consider this site as having a "no tolerance policy" against hacking if it makes it easier to understand.

forgive me about that but so far i ve only seen 12 year olds saying things like "yay trophy hunting is fun again" like it was my fault they are so low on the boards

my sincere apologies

[mattybell2117]

1. i wasn't calling myself a cheater, i was being sarcastic

2. how being on a leaderboard called dirty-with cheaters isn't labelling me?

3. i dont like hackers/cheaters either thats why i said i earned trophies myself just to find the fastest completionists were all hackers/cheaters

4. 1 and 10 makes a huge difference, you failed to respond why i didn't hack/cheat any more than 1

5. i wasn't not assuming everyone is going to attack me, i was certain of it having followed the topic from the beginning lol

6. and last but not least i m not trying to defend hackers/cheaters i just asked for some tolerance maybe on one time offenders

to my friend ionstorm thank you for the welcome & information; like i said i didn't know if it was a glitch and apparently it is

to my friend bmj i first signed in months ago, i wanted to participate in the forums but couldn't log in, i only asked sly how to today

and yes i could have asked earlier how to log in but like i said i m an active member of 2 other communities so i always said today i will

but never did and time passed by...

Alright well you came in and said "first timer here, cheater lol". I took that to mean that you were a cheater. I don't know how I could've possibly came to that realization...

And yes I suppose being on a "dirty" leaderboard is somewhat of a label but are you saying that you deserve to compete with all the people that never hacked a game? You're giving yourself and unfair advantage that way.

And I have no idea why you only hacked 1 game. How am I supposed to know why you hacked what you hacked? I'm not you.

I honestly don't even see why you're complaining, you're not even flagged for cheating a game. You're on the clean leaderboard at the moment.

It's not my system to design. Sly wants a "no tolerance", that's his decision. Perhaps it will change, perhaps it won't. That's all you had to do in the first place was voice your opinion and say that you think there should be some leniency. Many people here are happy with the no tolerance policy.

As for duck's comment, I can definitely see what you're saying but I don't agree with analogies/metaphors you used. I think Sir_Bee's explanations are more relatable in these situations. I don't really understand why people are saying boosting is cheating. There's no possible way for anyone to find out everyone who boosted and even if there was, you'd get removed. Why bother bringing it up?

Edited August 24, 2012 by mattybell2117

[Sir_Bee]

forgive me about that but so far i ve only seen 12 year olds saying things like "yay trophy hunting is fun again" like it was my fault they are so low on the boards

my sincere apologies

When you play a sport, and find out that many of the best people are using steroids to 'cheat', the whole sport becomes less fun. It doesn't matter if those people would still be better than you without the drugs, the fact that they get away with cheating ruins most of the sport. With them gone, you can actually work towards competing with the other players, because all of you are using nothing more than your training and bodies. It makes for a much more fair challenge, and that makes it more fun.

[ShinYagami13]

I disagree with this. If you are in a race up a mountain, you are expected to prepare by surveying the land, using maps and others experience so that you can decide to find the best way to the top. That all becomes part of the race. You still have to actually climb the mountain faster then your opponents, so you still earned the victory. Being prepared and well versed in the mountain is not cheating at all. By reading a guide, you are basically studying for a test. You still need to do all the work and get all the right answers and reactions while playing the game, so you still have to earn it.

As for boosting being like using a car in a running race, I think that is off as well. A better analogy would be the Tour De France. You use other riders to draft behind so you have an easier time and have more energy to sprint to the finish. That is part of the race. Same goes for being in a car race. The car out front has to do the most work, while the car behind him can draft and has an easier time. I think that 'drafting' is a much more accurate analogy for 'boosting'.

dear sir bee i dont think that duck chose the correct way to say something i wanted to say too

why using a guide or boosting isn't the proper way of earning a trophy? just because the developers didn't mean for it to be earned like that!

i dont have to bring up mountains and rivers to make my point

as for your Tour de france analogy i will only say that the other riders are not trying to help you but race against you

cheers

When you play a sport, and find out that many of the best people are using steroids to 'cheat', the whole sport becomes less fun. It doesn't matter if those people would still be better than you without the drugs, the fact that they get away with cheating ruins most of the sport. With them gone, you can actually work towards competing with the other players, because all of you are using nothing more than your training and bodies. It makes for a much more fair challenge, and that makes it more fun.

as for this one i can only say a one time user of steroids doesn't become hulk for the rest of his life (hulk lol)

[mattybell2117]

dear sir bee i dont think that duck chose the correct way to say something i wanted to say too

why using a guide or boosting isn't the proper way of earning a trophy? just because the developers didn't mean for it to be earned like that!

i dont have to bring up mountains and rivers to make my point

as for your Tour de france analogy i will only say that the other riders are not trying to help you but race against you

cheers

as for this one i can only say a one time user of steroids doesn't become hulk for the rest of his life (hulk lol)

Developers do intend for trophies to be earned with guides. That's the purpose of guidebooks...

[Roughdawg4]

I disagree with this. If you are in a race up a mountain, you are expected to prepare by surveying the land, using maps and others experience so that you can decide to find the best way to the top. That all becomes part of the race. You still have to actually climb the mountain faster then your opponents, so you still earned the victory. Being prepared and well versed in the mountain is not cheating at all. By reading a guide, you are basically studying for a test. You still need to do all the work and get all the right answers and reactions while playing the game, so you still have to earn it.

As for boosting being like using a car in a running race, I think that is off as well. A better analogy would be the Tour De France. You use other riders to draft behind so you have an easier time and have more energy to sprint to the finish. That is part of the race. Same goes for being in a car race. The car out front has to do the most work, while the car behind him can draft and has an easier time. I think that 'drafting' is a much more accurate analogy for 'boosting'.

I was wondering how to respond and honestly this is about the best way you can sum it up

I love how hackers are trying to throw other people under the bus because of there actions. There is one difference that they always fail to mention, one method involves you actually still earning the trophy while the other involves using some one else's work. In essence, you are taking someone elses hard work putting your name on it and submitted it as your own.

@ Duck, I think were you fail at the analogy of the kid steaing the bread is he only did it once, you did it 6 times. 6 times you choose to cheat on trophies rather than doing them yourself. Do I personally want to see you removed, no I dont. As a team, our goal is to pass you and I certainly wouldn't want it this way. Unfortunately when you want to make rules black/white, this is the result. Bieleric is going to fall out the same way since he is about 15 hacks to his almost 1500 games played.

[ShinYagami13]

Developers do intend for trophies to be earned with guides. That's the purpose of guidebooks...

is one issued for every game? and anyway its your choice from then whether to buy and use the guide

or try earning them without one so they actually give you a choice

if they intented to make them earned with guides then the trophies should be unobtainable without the use of one

[Sir_Bee]

is one issued for every game? and anyway its your choice from then whether to buy and use the guide

or try earning them without one so they actually give you a choice

if they intented to make them earned with guides then the trophies should be unobtainable without the use of one

They actually sell guides for almost every big title game in stores. And you are absolutely correct, they give you the choice. Since they give you that choice, it isn't cheating ...

[ShinYagami13]

They actually sell guides for almost every big title game in stores. And you are absolutely correct, they give you the choice. Since they give you that choice, it isn't cheating ...

its only done for profit my friend and again it doesn't make it fair against someone who didn't buy one does it?

all i m saying is that we choose were to draw a line

we have accepted guides and boosting as legit means of earning a trophy because it suits all

if on this site for example or even sony said we allow you to choose one instant platinum dont u think everyone would go

for one they have at their collection but never were able to complete?

[Sly Ripper]

Boosting is cheating so is using a guide.

It's like a race against someone to the top of a mountain except you know the easiest and fastest way while you shouldn't which made you win this race (That's like using a Trophy Guide)

Or like a normal running race except you're using a car (Like boosting... to make things faster)

Every little help is cheat but people will never agree why? Because everyone does it and when everyone does or say something you will agree with them even if they are wrong. It's not just psychological thing but it is also proven in mathematics. But anyway...

I'm not good with speeches and it's not my thing... I personally don't care. People bring the leaderboard to my FB page keep arguing whether I deserve it or not.... do I?

I don't care that you removed me and I won't care if you bring me back. I was indeed removed because I indeed cheated. What I wanna say is just something I want to get off my chest. I don't want it to change the rules in here or anything just... share my thoughts with you all.

What kind of price do I have to pay for my crimes? There is a story I love and I'm sure some of you know it. It's by Victor Huge called Les Miserables. It's a story of injustice of a man. He was put in prison for stealing a piece of bread when he was a bit young. He spent 19 years in prison for that crime. After they released him everyone treated him like a criminal, everyone (except for one guy but we're not gonna talk about him) his soul was destroy form the hatred they showed him so he stole a coin from a young boy. Just a coin! And the police were after him till the rest of his days. Why? Because the police said "A Criminal will always be a criminal".

Does that mean "A cheater will always be a cheater" ?? I cheated does it mean I'll be a cheater for the rest of my life no matter how small the cheat I did? Will you treat me the same way the people treated that man because of the small crime he did? Is this really Justice?

Of course that was just to see how does your spiritual feelings are. How about we move on to science. In science a thing has to be over 50% to be the name of that thing. Meaning... I cheated 6 games out of 600. That's 1% cheating and 99% not cheating. Will you call me a cheater/hacker because of that 1%? I wise man once said, ""If you hit 99% and missed 1% then the people will forget that 99% and will hate you for the 1%... this is our society"" and to be honest what he said is true. If a materiel is 99% Iron and 1% Gold will you still call it Gold?

If you haven't realized... I'm not saying this because I was removed I'm saying it because there are still many people hates me for what I did.

Sly, keep me removed if that makes things better in here. I won't and never will ask to be brought back because I don't need to. I just wanted everyone to know about the way I see their hatred.

(Replace all 'I' and "Me" that I have written with "We" and "Us" if you must)

It's possible that in the future once the majority of cheated users/games have been flagged I can change over to a system where only the cheated games are ignored and alter a user's level/percent accordingly.

[Sir_Bee]

its only done for profit my friend and again it doesn't make it fair against someone who didn't buy one does it?

Not true in the slightest, you can look around online and get a free guide if you don't want to buy the guide. Many games have forums where you can talk with other players to get help in areas where you are having trouble. That is what a community is about. In the end however, you still have to be able to do what the guide says to get the trophies. A good example from my recent history would be Dead Space 2. You can read and watch all the guides you want, the only way to get the trophy is to be actually able to beat the game on hardcore. That is the biggest difference between a guide and a save hack. One, you still have to actually be able to beat the game, and the other is someone else doing all the playing for you.

[killerJAZZ420]

its only done for profit my friend and again it doesn't make it fair against someone who didn't buy one does it?

all i m saying is that we choose were to draw a line

we have accepted guides and boosting as legit means of earning a trophy because it suits all

if on this site for example or even sony said we allow you to choose one instant platinum dont u think everyone would go

for one they have at their collection but never were able to complete?

I usually dont like to egg on subjects like this.

But that comparison has no standing at all.

You're point was sony giving you a plat, a plat you couldnt get you'reself none the less. which is alot different then going out and buying a means to make the game alittle easier. which i dont see the point in those anyways.

[ShinYagami13]

Not true in the slightest, you can look around online and get a free guide if you don't want to buy the guide. Many games have forums where you can talk with other players to get help in areas where you are having trouble. That is what a community is about. In the end however, you still have to be able to do what the guide says to get the trophies. A good example from my recent history would be Dead Space 2. You can read and watch all the guides you want, the only way to get the trophy is to be actually able to beat the game on hardcore. That is the biggest difference between a guide and a save hack. One, you still have to actually be able to beat the game, and the other is someone else doing all the playing for you.

you lost the point there dude

i know you can find guides online i even wrote a small one lol

i m just saying its not fair to someone who doesnt use one but everybody accepts it

I usually dont like to egg on subjects like this.

But that comparison has no standing at all.

You're point was sony giving you a plat, a plat you couldnt get you'reself none the less. which is alot different then going out and buying a means to make the game alittle easier. which i dont see the point in those anyways.

my point was that we draw the line on whats acceptable and what isnt so if one day or even like a week ago that the clean up started Sly said i will allow

ONE would you be arguing with me or anyone that had ONE?

[Sir_Bee]

you lost the point there dude

i know you can find guides online i even wrote a small one lol

i m just saying its not fair to someone who doesnt use one but everybody accepts it

By not using something that is provided or encouraged by the developers, and thinking it is unfair, is like trying to beat call of duty without using an assault rifle. That is a choice you make, not something that is unfair.

[ShinYagami13]

By not using something that is provided or encouraged by the developers, and thinking it is unfair, is like trying to beat call of duty without using an assault rifle. That is a choice you make, not something that is unfair.

is it included in the box you bought your game with?

as for dead space 2 i know! i got the platinum 1 day before u got yours

worst trophy ever (for me personally) i cant play under stress