SITE RULES FOR FLAGGING/BANNING

[Stardroid]

The only difference being that I see no concrete proof anywhere that game saves were allowed, ever to unlock trophies and even if they were... It's not parallel at all as they have differenet metrics and they are two completely different ways to bypass trophy requirements. One is just doing something you need to do absolutely nothing about but wait. The other is using a file to bypass intrinsic trophy requirements that require a certain amount of skill/grind/dedication. Luckily, these things can be discussed and clear distinctions can be made. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by FOX

[madbuk]

4 minutes ago, damon8r351 said:

Let me draw you guys a what if scenario: Sony changes the clock settings so that it can only be updated by connecting to the internet. You can't manually change the clock at all now unless you have some sort of CFW or homebrew software tool that's against the rules. Years down the road, it becomes standard that whoever doesn't earn the trophy on the date it says, or in the timespan it says, is a cheater. Also, you have thousands of people who did reset the clock back when you could do it, because it was something that didn't matter, enough that trophy guide writers felt justified in putting in their guides. Now you have someone systematically scanning games for people who earned those trophies years ago outside of the prescribed timespan, people coming back saying "It was allowed 8 years ago!" "Sorry, but that situation is indistinguishable from people using CFW to change the clock. Just hide the game."

 

Now go look at your profile. Trust me, I have. I suggest people look at disputes with a little bit less of a black and white filter, maybe.

After the firmware update is released, it would become an illegal way of obtaining trophies, but CFW trophy popping will still give you a timestamp after the firmware was created. So, we just let everyone with timestamps before the firmware update go free, because it was a possible method back then, and then flag everyone after the date.

 

Should we flag everyone who has the online trophies in Kill Strain after the servers shut, regardless of when they were earned, because it'll then be impossible? No.

[Cleggworth]

1 minute ago, damon8r351 said:

 

Brings to mind how generally accepted right now resetting the system clock to get a trophy is, and it too is included in trophy guides. Like in Flower and Journey, because most people aren't patient enough to wait 7 days for a trophy. So many people, myself included, are going to be fucked if that ever changes.

 

Just something for others to keep in the back of their heads.

 

I popped a trophy for playing on Christmas day.... in the middle of March lol

 

The 2 game limit exists for SOCOM and Fuel right? Because back in the day it was easy and nobody realised in the future they'd be chased off a leaderboard? How many more fifa 09 disputes does there have to be to bump that to 3? The hacker in the lobby disputes are the one's that bother me. You were young and foolish and downloaded a save for SOCOM and Fuel. You've used up your 2 game limit on those and you end up in a lobby with a hacker and poof you're up shit creek without a paddle. You can delete them before syncing but not everybody knows that and its even being debated in another thread if this even works. I know there's no way to tell between this and more nefarious ways of unlocking these trophies but there's got to be some way to make this fair

[faryneitor]

2 minutes ago, Cleggworth said:

 

I popped a trophy for playing on Christmas day.... in the middle of March lol

 

The 2 game limit exists for SOCOM and Fuel right? Because back in the day it was easy and nobody realised in the future they'd be chased off a leaderboard? How many more fifa 09 disputes does there have to be to bump that to 3? The hacker in the lobby disputes are the one's that bother me. You were young and foolish and downloaded a save for SOCOM and Fuel. You've used up your 2 game limit on those and you end up in a lobby with a hacker and poof you're up shit creek without a paddle. You can delete them before syncing but not everybody knows that and its even being debated in another thread if this even works. I know there's no way to tell between this and more nefarious ways of unlocking these trophies but there's got to be some way to make this fair

I unlocked a Batman Arkham City trophy changing the PS3 clock 12 times in a day (Storyteller trophy)

Back in 2009, many people used the savedata for SOCOM and Fuel. Maybe now is considered a great offence, but not in 2009. Same for FIFA 09. Those saves were not CFW. In order to use it you only need an USB device and the OFW. And in FIFA 09 you have to play online matches to achieve the Interactive League trophy (not Interactive Leagues but friendly matches).

I think some users are a little aggresive on the dispute forum. I understand that many people lies in the disputes, but a hostile climate is being created.

Even the statement of flagg is not cheat, a public accusation and the need of a public justification is harming this community.

[Stardroid]

What you people don't seem to understand is the following. It does not matter if saves were looked upon as this normalized thing. You obtained a trophy you did not deserve and therefore you should not be put in the same category as people who obtained it legitemately. This is a timeless principle. It does not matter if you got that trophy in the stoneage when you were painting monkeys on the walls while crushing berries. 

 

I do get Damon his example, but it's an extreme example. There is no merrit in waiting a week to play a game again. No skill involved, no investment at all. It's an easy thing to bypass and is clearly different from actually using save files to earn trophies.

Edited May 19, 2017 by FOX

[Dav9834]

4 minutes ago, FOX said:

What you people don't seem to understand is the following. It does not matter if saves were looked upon as this normalized thing. You obtained a trophy you did not deserve and therefore you should not be put in the same category as people who obtained it legitemately. This is a timeless principle. It does not matter if you got that trophy in the stoneage when you were painting monkeys on the walls while crushing berries. 

 

I do get Damon his example, but it's an extreme example. There is no merrit in waiting a week to play a game again. No skill involved, no investment at all. It's an easy thing to bypass and is clearly different from actually using save files to earn trophies.

What if that week bumped you up on the first achievers leaderboard? 

[Stardroid]

Just now, Dav9834 said:

What if that week bumped you up on the first achievers leaderboard? 

Then I am simply the first on the leaderboard. If the basis is easy to bypass and requires no dedication, skill or effort, then I don't see the problem, at all. And it would be completely insane to make a problem out of it. 

[hore]

9 minutes ago, FOX said:

 I see very little to no harm in putting the system clock one week ahead. You can discuss these things, you can estimate the gravity of the requirement that you bypass. Putting the clock one week ahead is such a weak criteria and has no merit involved in it at all. 

Now, if you would need a total game time of 50 hours and you manipulate time one way or another on your system, that might be another discussion. That being said, the reason why game saves are not allowed is very obvious. 

 

Person #1 is playing Black Ops 2 Multiplayer for fun one night, when suddenly Big Leagues pops midway through their match – the easy MP trophy that went unobtainable before they got into trophies. This 1-2 hour trophy was just achieved in the blink of an eye without meeting the criteria. Person #1 had no intention of popping this trophy. They double check their trophy list to make sure they're not crazy – BAM! Synced & labelled a cheater. He files a dispute and gets ganged up on by a group of PSNP hypocritical heretics.

 

Person #2 is playing Twisted Metal, but realizes they don't have time to win 30 matches – 1 win every day – before the servers close next week. They move their PS3 clock forward after every win, and manage to effectively unlock an unobtainable trophy. They did NOT meet the trophy criteria, and on top of that, their wins weren't legit either – they were boosted with other "trophy hunters", whatever the fuck that label means anymore. These mongrels had full intent to unlock these otherwise unobtainable trophies, and they did so by employing 2 methods of illegitimacy. So what happens in Person #2's dispute thread??  Nothing LOL there is no dispute. He posts his new platinum and gets 20 "PSNP likes"  ()  and compliments; "OMG HARD GRINDY PLAT NICE JOB VERY IMPRESSIVE 10/10 ? "

 

....You see where we're coming from, yet? Why the system is a joke and so are the PSNP heretics that take it seriously?

[madbuk]

3 minutes ago, Thropy_Hore said:

 

Person #1 is playing Black Ops 2 Multiplayer for fun one night, when suddenly Big Leagues pops midway through their match – the easy MP trophy that went unobtainable before they got into trophies. This 1-2 hour trophy was just achieved in the blink of an eye without meeting the criteria. Person #1 had no intention of popping this trophy. They double check their trophy list to make sure they're not crazy – BAM! Synced & labelled a cheater. He files a dispute and gets ganged up on by a group of PSNP hypocritical heretics.

 

Person #2 is playing Twisted Metal, but realizes they don't have time to win 30 matches – 1 win every day – before the servers close next week. They move their PS3 clock forward after every win, and manage to effectively unlock an unobtainable trophy. They did NOT meet the trophy criteria, and on top of that, their wins weren't legit either – they were boosted with other "trophy hunters", whatever the fuck that label means anymore. These mongrels had full intent to unlock these otherwise unobtainable trophies, and they did so by employing 2 methods of illegitimacy. So what happens in Person #2's dispute thread??  Nothing LOL there is no dispute. He posts his new platinum and gets 20 "PSNP likes"  ()  and compliments; "OMG HARD GRINDY PLAT NICE JOB VERY IMPRESSIVE 10/10  "

 

....You see where we're coming from, yet? Why the system is a joke and so are the PSNP heretics that take it seriously?

If the developers really wanted it to be 30 days consecutively, they would've stored it on the server so you couldn't cheat it.

They didn't.

Thus, moving the clock forward is a perfectly legit method as the game is programmed to allow that.

In regards to boosting, that is not cheating either as you are still playing by the rules and boundaries set up by the game.

 

I don't see how this compares to having a trophy pop by means completely outside the game itself like hacking or downloading a save file off the internet.

[nenugalimas]

2 hours ago, Thropy_Hore said:

 

Person #1 is playing Black Ops 2 Multiplayer for fun one night, when suddenly Big Leagues pops midway through their match – the easy MP trophy that went unobtainable before they got into trophies. This 1-2 hour trophy was just achieved in the blink of an eye without meeting the criteria. Person #1 had no intention of popping this trophy. They double check their trophy list to make sure they're not crazy – BAM! Synced & labelled a cheater. He files a dispute and gets ganged up on by a group of PSNP hypocritical heretics.

 

Person #2 is playing Twisted Metal, but realizes they don't have time to win 30 matches – 1 win every day – before the servers close next week. They move their PS3 clock forward after every win, and manage to effectively unlock an unobtainable trophy. They did NOT meet the trophy criteria, and on top of that, their wins weren't legit either – they were boosted with other "trophy hunters", whatever the fuck that label means anymore. These mongrels had full intent to unlock these otherwise unobtainable trophies, and they did so by employing 2 methods of illegitimacy. So what happens in Person #2's dispute thread??  Nothing LOL there is no dispute. He posts his new platinum and gets 20 "PSNP likes"  ()  and compliments; "OMG HARD GRINDY PLAT NICE JOB VERY IMPRESSIVE 10/10  "

 

....You see where we're coming from, yet? Why the system is a joke and so are the PSNP heretics that take it seriously?

If you have illegitimate timestamps you have illegitimate timestamps. Why exactly should psnp care how they became illegitimate? If you will start taking everyone at their word you might as well do away with flagging as a whole because everyones going to have some excuse or the other.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Parker

[Stardroid]

9 minutes ago, Thropy_Hore said:

 

Person #1 is playing Black Ops 2 Multiplayer for fun one night, when suddenly Big Leagues pops midway through their match – the easy MP trophy that went unobtainable before they got into trophies. This 1-2 hour trophy was just achieved in the blink of an eye without meeting the criteria. Person #1 had no intention of popping this trophy. They double check their trophy list to make sure they're not crazy – BAM! Synced & labelled a cheater. He files a dispute and gets ganged up on by a group of PSNP hypocritical heretics.

 

Person #2 is playing Twisted Metal, but realizes they don't have time to win 30 matches – 1 win every day – before the servers close next week. They move their PS3 clock forward after every win, and manage to effectively unlock an unobtainable trophy. They did NOT meet the trophy criteria, and on top of that, their wins weren't legit either – they were boosted with other "trophy hunters", whatever the fuck that label means anymore. These mongrels had full intent to unlock these otherwise unobtainable trophies, and they did so by employing 2 methods of illegitimacy. So what happens in Person #2's dispute thread??  Nothing LOL there is no dispute. He posts his new platinum and gets 20 "PSNP likes"  ()  and compliments; "OMG HARD GRINDY PLAT NICE JOB VERY IMPRESSIVE 10/10 ? "

 

....You see where we're coming from, yet? Why the system is a joke and so are the PSNP heretics that take it seriously?

Example 1 has nothing to do with what I am saying. But I will respond nonetheless. These things are very hard to prove, but people have told you multiple times, that if this happens, you can prove by taking screenshots, by contacting the hacker and obtaining proof that way and such. You can then dispute it. Read back as to why innocent until proven guilty is a faulty system within this website's paradigm. 

Over person 2, we could have a discussion. It requires the person to have 30 days of playtime (at least once a day). That's different from not playing a week and coming back in an offline game. In my opinion, not legit at all and should be flagged and stay flagged. 
The rest of your comment is just mindless ramblings that contribute nothing. You have been ranting and moaning for days for a proclaimed stoic when it comes to trophies. Perhaps you should take your own advice and stop caring. It's embarassing how this circle jerking keeps on happening. 

That being said, the rules are the rules and what is considering cheating and what is not is established by the website. You can have a discussion about this or you can continue moaning. If you wish to see a change, I advise you get rid of the infantile talk and actually start putting together coherent arguments. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by FOX

[Dav9834]

14 minutes ago, FOX said:

Then I am simply the first on the leaderboard. If the basis is easy to bypass and requires no dedication, skill or effort, then I don't see the problem, at all. And it would be completely insane to make a problem out of it. 

Well I'd have a problem with it imo, intentional manipulation of a system to get a trophy imo is cheating. Cheating is cheating, in all cases

Edited May 19, 2017 by Dav9834

[Stardroid]

Just now, Dav9834 said:

Well I'd have a problem with it imo, manipulation of a system to get a trophy imo is cheating. Cheating is cheating, in all cases

There are plenty of things that are manipulated and are not considered cheating. Glitches is one example. It also depends on how you manipulate your system. There's a big difference between jailbreaking your PS3 and putting the clock forward one week so you can just uninstall the game instead of coming back after 7 days to turn it on for 5 seconds and be done with it. If you'd have a problem with that, all power to you, I guess.

[Dav9834]

Just now, FOX said:

There are plenty of things that are manipulated and are not considered cheating. Glitches is one example. It also depends on how you manipulate your system. There's a big difference between jailbreaking your PS3 and putting the clock forward one week so you can just uninstall the game instead of coming back after 7 days to turn it on for 5 seconds and be done with it. If you'd have a problem with that, all power to you, I guess.

Thank you for the power : ) 

[thegirlruka]

14 minutes ago, madbuk said:

If the developers really wanted it to be 30 days consecutively, they would've stored it on the server so you couldn't cheat it.

They didn't.

If the developers really wanted people to not download other peoples' saves, they would've stored them on the server so you couldn't cheat it.

They didn't.

 

I can make fallacious arguments too.

[madbuk]

Just now, kuuhaku said:

If the developers really wanted people to not download other peoples' saves, they would've stored them on the server so you couldn't cheat it.

They didn't.

 

I can make fallacious arguments too.

Twisted Metal is an online competitive multiplayer game at heart.

Why should a single-player focused title like Assassin's Creed II have a separate server just for storing save files? That's expensive. But TM being an online game, there's no real excuse.

[B1rvine]

19 minutes ago, madbuk said:

 

In regards to boosting, that is not cheating either as you are still playing by the rules and boundaries set up by the game.

 

 

There isn't always a black and white answer.  

 

One could argue boosting isn't legitimate, since some devs  will ban you off their online portions of their game if they catch boosters.

 

Just like using your own save is within Sony's guidelines so it could be viewed as not cheating.  I mean some people just want to play a game, say like a Final Fantasy game that takes 1000 hours to finish and doesn't want to restart after their PS3 breaks down and they're in the final dungeon, but 8 years later decides to become a trophy hunter.

 

im not advocating for or against either of my arguments, just pointing out it's not black and white.

Edited May 19, 2017 by B1rvine

[Otonio_Bruno]

50 minutes ago, damon8r351 said:

Let me draw you guys a what if scenario: Sony changes the clock settings so that it can only be updated by connecting to the internet. You can't manually change the clock at all now unless you have some sort of CFW or homebrew software tool that's against the rules. Years down the road, it becomes standard that whoever doesn't earn the trophy on the date it says, or in the timespan it says, is a cheater. Also, you have thousands of people who did reset the clock back when you could do it, because it was something that didn't matter, enough that trophy guide writers felt justified in putting in their guides. Now you have someone systematically scanning games for people who earned those trophies years ago outside of the prescribed timespan, people coming back saying "It was allowed 8 years ago!" "Sorry, but that situation is indistinguishable from people using CFW to change the clock. Just hide the game."

 

Now go look at your profile. Trust me, I have. I suggest people look at disputes with a little bit less of a black and white filter, maybe.

In this hypothetical scenario, I'd still be free of any flags: https://psnprofiles.com/trophies/1285-journey/Otonio_Bruno?order=date ?

 

But let's put another if here: If I actually did take this kind of 'shortcut' and later down the line it would be unnaceptable to do it because of new rules, I'd simply accept those new rules as they would be. Same case for boosting, for example. It would probably be the best for me to find a new community with less strict rules then.

[Xionx]

36 minutes ago, kuuhaku said:

If the developers really wanted people to not download other peoples' saves, they would've stored them on the server so you couldn't cheat it.

They didn't.

 

I can make fallacious arguments too.

Devs dont want it so pretty much every save got locked after a while. Thats why you cant download a save file for every single game.

 

 

I think some people here dont understand why we have dispute threads and why it is puplic.  Its FOR the community and everyone who think its toxic should see the alternativ. 

Alternativ , you get flagged , you stayed flagged . end .  Dispute threads is to find wrong flaggs (and i see few of them), they help community and should remove wrong (accident or lack of knowledge) flaggs.

It is puplic because Mods cant possible know every single game + every single trophy.  If comments are toxic /wrong /agressiv  than just report these.  Many people post in dispute threads to find the truth to help finding wrong flags.

[Dav9834]

Where are the mods in here! 

@Parker @Stevieboy @Sly Ripper

So many of these comments are not helping this thread or the division between those of us that like the dispute /flagging system and those of us that think it's flawed and toxic being public. 

This isn't bringing us together, this is just creating drama and separation. 

 

This site needs more mods regardless of whether you feel they're completely trust worthy or not. 

 

This is not the psnprofiles I once knew

[faryneitor]

12 minutes ago, Xionx said:

Devs dont want it so pretty much every save got locked after a while. Thats why you cant download a save file for every single game.

 

 

I think some people here dont understand why we have dispute threads and why it is puplic.  Its FOR the community and everyone who think its toxic should see the alternativ. 

Alternativ , you get flagged , you stayed flagged . end .  Dispute threads is to find wrong flaggs (and i see few of them), they help community and should remove wrong (accident or lack of knowledge) flaggs.

It is puplic because Mods cant possible know every single game + every single trophy.  If comments are toxic /wrong /agressiv  than just report these.  Many people post in dispute threads to find the truth to help finding wrong flags.

In many cases it is a public stoning

[Hemiak]

I'd like to suggest that whenever the rules get finalized, every user gets a pop up the first time they log into their account that specifically states "Hey these things aren't ok.

A

b

C

HIde any games that break these rules or you will most likely be caught and flagged."

[thegirlruka]

1 minute ago, Hemiak said:

I'd like to suggest that whenever the rules get finalized, every user gets a pop up the first time they log into their account that specifically states "Hey these things aren't ok.

A

b

C

HIde any games that break these rules or you will most likely be caught and flagged."

What about the people who were added by others and were flagged before becoming members?

[Dav9834]

8 minutes ago, Hemiak said:

I'd like to suggest that whenever the rules get finalized, every user gets a pop up the first time they log into their account that specifically states "Hey these things aren't ok.

A

b

C

HIde any games that break these rules or you will most likely be caught and flagged."

 

6 minutes ago, kuuhaku said:

What about the people who were added by others and were flagged before becoming members?

Hnm if we combine, for instance

 

If we had 2 weeks or 1 month of everyday you see that message, it would significantly take a lot of load off of flags and disputes. 

 

I highly back this idea, it's very efficient. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Dav9834

[Xionx]

11 minutes ago, faryneitor said:

In many cases it is a public stoning

 

Still not problem of the system , its because some people behave wrong.  And if someone turns it into stoning or behave other wrong way than report him . He gets warning points and wont do it again.