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DrBloodmoney's Super Scientific Ranking of Games!


DrBloodmoney

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25 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

I've genuinely get to see a good argument as to why Sly 4 was bad, that wouldn't, be default, apply doubly so so Sly 3, and triple so to Sly 2, TBH!

 

I think it's mostly tone, with some fans talking about how much darker the original trilogy. But I've always viewed them as much goofier affairs than other people, their were dark moments yes, but that would be true of 4 as well in my eyes. 

One thing in number four I did dislike was how the ending treated Carmella, she got captured after a really gross scene then was the damsel in distress, but that doesn't get mentioned as much for reasons that I can only assume.

 

7 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

The strong, black outline on characters gives a cell-shaded look, in much the way early "cell-shaded" games did, but here, it feels wholly stylistic and a plus, as opposed to the "by-necessity" nature that some early cell-shaded games tended to feel.

 

Wanna see a non Cell-shaded Sly jumpscare? 

 

Spoiler

Screenshots - PlayStation Move Heroes - Crossovers and Appearances -  Ratchet Galaxy

 

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I'm glad you enjoyed Two Point Campus! I played TP Hospital a few years ago and really liked it, the charm the series have is unmatched if we talk about this specific genre of games (is it called "management"? "simulation"), so I'm going to try Campus eventually. It's the kind of game that puts you on the edge to try other similar games, and ending up spending hours and hours without noticing.

 

Since you didn't play Hospital, I'd say you're missing those Sonic decorations and need to catch up right now?

Edited by Jeanoltt
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2 hours ago, Jeanoltt said:

I'm glad you enjoyed Two Point Campus! I played TP Hospital a few years ago and really liked it, the charm the series have is unmatched if we talk about this specific genre of games (is it called "management"? "simulation"), so I'm going to try Campus eventually. It's the kind of game that puts you on the edge to try other similar games, and ending up spending hours and hours without noticing.

 

Since you didn't play Hospital, I'd say you're missing those Sonic decorations and need to catch up right now?


Thanks!

 

Yeah, I did like Campus - I think that review was definitely one where it can come off as maybe more negative than it should, simply because I played Cities Skylines (again!) so recently - and to my mind, Cities is THE management sim, and all others are pretenders to the throne to some extent! ?
 

Campus’s issues did stick out to me a bit more in that light… but I must admit, I’m still kind of looking forward to trying out Two Point Hospital - so that really says all it needs to about whether I’d still broadly recommend Two Point Campus!

 

(Also, if you dig management sims, and haven’t tried out Cities yet - do yourself a favour, as it’s the absolute business! ??)

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17 hours ago, grayhammmer said:

Hey Doc, I just saw you comment on a post about underloved platinums, and the only one you hadn't analyzed yet was Chime Sharp.

 

I'm curious as to what it's like, so I'll put in a request for it and give you a reason to talk about it.

 

Good point - that's one of the last of my "yo, this is under-appreciated" top 10 still not reviewed...

...added to the Priority List, with your name! ?

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Okay, I've finally read all five Sly reviews. 

 

One clear pattern I noticed is the difference between the 3D mascot platformer trilogies that changed the formula in their first sequel (which didn't work well) and the ones that kept it and focused on gradual improvements. I'd say Jak is in the first group, and Crash, Spyro, and Ratchet are in the second group. Jak's first game probably remains the strongest of the 3 (IMO at this point in time), while Crash, Spyro, and Ratchet all kept improving, so the first iteration of each became the weakest.

 

According to science, Sly joins Jak's group, it looks like. Just like his long-eared friend, Sly peaked at his debut, made an unsuccessful attempt to change the formula, albeit not as radically, and spent the 3rd game fixing what can be fixed as the result. Interesting stuff, although it may sound as a sad lesson - "don't try to risk and experiment". Or maybe, if you narrow it down to the two cases like Jak and Sly - "Don't try to copy GTA's features randomly" ?. Of course, I still have to play Sly myself, but this is how I'll see it until then.

 

Another pattern I noticed while reading about Sly's 4th installment - the fact that most of these 3D platformers tend to go towards time travel eventually ?. Crash did it in Warped, Ratchet - in A Crack in Time, Jak - in Jak 2, Sly - in Thieves in Time. Spyro seemingly escaped this trend, at least until the franchise changed the developer. I have no idea what the post-Insomniac games were about. 

 

Usually, the time travel brings the possibility of using cool new settings. As you can expect from the premise, Crash leaves his familiar tropical islands, ancient ruins, and futuristic labs to explore Egyptian tombs and medieval castles, meanwhile, his sister decides to ride a tiger on the Great Wall of China while it's being built. Time travel fits platformers well. Although other series used it differently: in Jak, it's a plot point that explains the radical change, in Ratchet, it's mostly used in the gameplay itself. Or they just don't need it, since a character like Spyro travels to interesting and unique looking worlds through portals anyway.

 

One thing I wanted to ask, since Mario has been mentioned here, what's your Mario ranking or tierlist? And how many of them have you played? If you've talked about that, you can just give me a link to the post. I guess, Sunshine would be somewhere at the bottom of the tierlist based on what I read ?. 

Edited by Slava
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Quote

One thing I wanted to ask, since Mario has been mentioned here, what's your Mario ranking or tierlist? And how many of them have you played? If you've talked about that, you can just give me a link to the post. I guess, Sunshine would be somewhere at the bottom of the tierlist based on what I read 1f604.png

 

Oh God, a Mario tier list would be insane if it covered everything, right?

There has to be over a hundred Mario games, if you started including all the offshoots - the Karts and Parties and Tennises and Golfs and whatnots!

 

TBH, I couldn't even begin to approach something like that (and am pretty unqualified given that I've touched a lot of them, but not finished even close to half of the ones I've played.)

Of the ones I spent enough time to be relatively sure of myself though, I guess it'd look something like:

 

  1. Super Mario World
  2. Mario Maker
  3. Super Mario Bros 3
  4. Mario Paint
  5. Paper Mario
  6. Dr Mario
  7. Mario Galaxy 2
  8. Mario Galaxy
  9. Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars
  10. Super Mario Bros 2 (Doki Doki Panic)
  11. Super Mario Land
  12. Yoshi's Island
  13. Super Mario Bros
  14. New Super Mario Bros
  15. Mario 64
  16. Mario Run
  17. Mario Sunshine
  18. Mario is Missing

...

 

 

...but there's probably like 20 games I played and I'm not remembering.... as well as like 1,000 that I haven't played ?

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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56 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

 

Oh God, a Mario tier list would be insane if it covered everything, right?

There has to be over a hundred Mario games, if you started including all the offshoots - the Karts and Parties and Tennises and Golfs and whatnots!

 

TBH, I couldn't even begin to approach something like that (and am pretty unqualified given that I've touched a lot of them, but not finished even close to half of the ones I've played.)

Of the ones I spent enough time to be relatively sure of myself though, I guess it'd look something like:

 

  1. Super Mario World
  2. Mario Maker
  3. Super Mario Bros 3
  4. Mario Paint
  5. Paper Mario
  6. Dr Mario
  7. Mario Galaxy 2
  8. Mario Galaxy
  9. Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars
  10. Super Mario Bros 2 (Doki Doki Panic)
  11. Super Mario Land
  12. Yoshi's Island
  13. Super Mario Bros
  14. New Super Mario Bros
  15. Mario 64
  16. Mario Run
  17. Mario Sunshine
  18. Mario is Missing

...

 

 

...but there's probably like 20 games I played and I'm not remembering.... as well as like 1,000 that I haven't played ?

 

You mean you haven't played...... Super Mario Galaxy Run 64 - The Legend of the Sunshine Paper Dr. Maker?! How dare you! lol

 

Surely you must have played...... Yoshi's Paint Island - Mario Kart Land is Missing ~ Doki Doki Panic!!!

 

C'mon Doc!

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28 minutes ago, The_Kopite said:

 

You mean you haven't played...... Super Mario Galaxy Run 64 - The Legend of the Sunshine Paper Dr. Maker?! How dare you! lol

 

Surely you must have played...... Yoshi's Paint Island - Mario Kart Land is Missing ~ Doki Doki Panic!!!

 

C'mon Doc!


 

You know “Yoshi’s Paint Island” actually sounds so much like a real game, I’m surprised it hasn’t been one! ?

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8 minutes ago, DrBloodmoney said:


 

You know “Yoshi’s Paint Island” actually sounds so much like a real game, I’m surprised it hasn’t been one! 1f602.png

Paper mario has already nabbed Paint:

The cover art of the game, featuring Mario in the center using his paint hammer and splashing red paint on the ground, and Huey, a paint bucket, to his right. Multiple characters can be seen in the background.

 

Checking nintendo franchises seem to have a whole lot of arts and crafts materials themed games

 

(Paper) Mario:

  • Paint
  • Stickers
  • Oragami

 

Kirby:

  • Yarn
  • Modelling Clay

Yoshi:

  • Wool  (x2)
  • General Craft

Chibi Robo

  • Photo Craft

 

Labo:

  • Cardboard

 

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15 minutes ago, breakingthegreen said:

Checking nintendo franchises seem to have a whole lot of arts and crafts materials themed games

 

 

Not to mention, of course, the mack daddy of them all: Mario Paint itself....

 

...both my first electronic art package, and my first electronic music creator, in one outrageously awesome SNES game!

 

I still remember the girl who used to child-mind me and my sister teaching me the fundamentals of a “twelve bar blues” structure, using those little Mario-heads on the stave in that music creator… 

 

…who says videogames didn’t teach us right!? ?

Edited by DrBloodmoney
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Wow. Your write-up of The Last of Us: Part 2 was beautiful, incisive, intellectual... what an amazing read, seriously.

 

I must confess that I haven't seen The Godfather trilogy (yet), but I was absolutely fascinated to read your comparison of how both The Godfather: Part II and The Last of Us: Part II seem deliberately aimed to challenge the audience's perception of the first movie/game. I've always planned to watch The Godfather trilogy because it is such a cultural milestone in cinema with some famous performances, but now I also want to watch it for its artistic/philosophical merits. Finally, I love how you described the difference between a [Title 2] being a new story at a [Title: Part 2] being a continuation/deepening of an existing story.

 

I also want to thank you for this review of TLOU: Part 2. I deeply love the first game for how well it told its story, and was dismayed to watch how toxic the Part 2 discussion started out due to the massive, out-of-context spoiler that was leaked a week or two(?) before the game's release. Once the game was finally released the toxicity was of course still quite pervasive in discussions - though there was then a second, smaller controversy over how many "haters" held on to these views without actually experiencing the game itself. It was all quite exhausting, even for someone who was not an active member of TLOU fandom.

 

As a result, I've procrastinated getting and playing the game for many years. I've come across several reviews that discussed how the controversial narrative decisions of TLOU: Part 2 were deliberate choices in service of the theme of vengeance, so I knew the game wasn't just gratuitous violence and torture porn. But those reviews didn't jolt that part of my brain that would make me want to play the game myself, they didn't hint strongly enough at the "benefits" I would get from the experience. While I was initially dismayed to learn of The Thing that Abby does at the beginning of the game, I grew to understand that the game provided a good justification for it, so I was never an Abby-hater. (Also, I heard that the visceral, aggressive nature of her combat style was fantastically done.)

 

I'm sure I'm not going to articulate this well, but your review finally outlined the benefit of playing the game for me. You provided a very vague roadmap (which is appreciated!) of the emotional journey that players will experience with this game. Not only that, you detailed how thoughtfully well-crafted the experience is, while only providing a small number of spoilers. I know now that I can play this game and while it will be a bitter(sweet?) experience, I will be able to admire the nuance and deft with which Naughty Dog provoked those emotions in me. (Also - I love that you brought up how the weather/environment is a subtle way in which the theme of vengeance is expressed, since I loved how TLOU's changing seasons tied into its narrative and themes.)

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1 hour ago, pelagia14 said:

Wow. Your write-up of The Last of Us: Part 2 was beautiful, incisive, intellectual... what an amazing read, seriously.

 

I must confess that I haven't seen The Godfather trilogy (yet), but I was absolutely fascinated to read your comparison of how both The Godfather: Part II and The Last of Us: Part II seem deliberately aimed to challenge the audience's perception of the first movie/game. I've always planned to watch The Godfather trilogy because it is such a cultural milestone in cinema with some famous performances, but now I also want to watch it for its artistic/philosophical merits. Finally, I love how you described the difference between a [Title 2] being a new story at a [Title: Part 2] being a continuation/deepening of an existing story.

 

I also want to thank you for this review of TLOU: Part 2. I deeply love the first game for how well it told its story, and was dismayed to watch how toxic the Part 2 discussion started out due to the massive, out-of-context spoiler that was leaked a week or two(?) before the game's release. Once the game was finally released the toxicity was of course still quite pervasive in discussions - though there was then a second, smaller controversy over how many "haters" held on to these views without actually experiencing the game itself. It was all quite exhausting, even for someone who was not an active member of TLOU fandom.

 

As a result, I've procrastinated getting and playing the game for many years. I've come across several reviews that discussed how the controversial narrative decisions of TLOU: Part 2 were deliberate choices in service of the theme of vengeance, so I knew the game wasn't just gratuitous violence and torture porn. But those reviews didn't jolt that part of my brain that would make me want to play the game myself, they didn't hint strongly enough at the "benefits" I would get from the experience. While I was initially dismayed to learn of The Thing that Abby does at the beginning of the game, I grew to understand that the game provided a good justification for it, so I was never an Abby-hater. (Also, I heard that the visceral, aggressive nature of her combat style was fantastically done.)

 

I'm sure I'm not going to articulate this well, but your review finally outlined the benefit of playing the game for me. You provided a very vague roadmap (which is appreciated!) of the emotional journey that players will experience with this game. Not only that, you detailed how thoughtfully well-crafted the experience is, while only providing a small number of spoilers. I know now that I can play this game and while it will be a bitter(sweet?) experience, I will be able to admire the nuance and deft with which Naughty Dog provoked those emotions in me. (Also - I love that you brought up how the weather/environment is a subtle way in which the theme of vengeance is expressed, since I loved how TLOU's changing seasons tied into its narrative and themes.)


Thank you mate, that means a lot!

 

I know what you mean about the discourse around the game upon release - it was dismaying, if for no other reason than that I think there is genuine, interesting debate to be had about the relative merits of both games, but it all just got drowned out in a sea of voices shouting about nonsense that had nothing to do with actual dissection of the game, and everything to do with either bigoted rubbish, or “I want my happy ending!” whining nonsense - ignoring any kind of real discussion what the game was trying to do.

 

 

I’m really happy if my little write up encouraged you to pull the trigger on playing the game - it’s a heck of an experience, and one that I’m certain you will take some strong feelings from - I won’t say “enjoy”, as that’s not exactly the word… but whatever the emotions are that you draw from it…I suspect they’ll be powerful ones - good and bad! ?
 

Really appreciate the kind words too - and happy someone made it through that whole thing, cause, boy…

…that one ran on a bit! ??

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Probably your best review yet. I really took my time with it to extract out as much as I could so that I could meet you with an intelligent perspective. Thank you for putting the time in to make this.

 

20 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

What is questionable, is whether this scene actually happened.

Is it actually a flashback... or simply Ellie's projection?
 
The main game would suggest it likely did not happen.

 

I didn't pick up on this. It is a very plausible theory. My initial reaction to this was to take it further: are all of the flashbacks dreams? Ellie's birthday is stunningly "perfect." It is what she could imagine to be the best day of her life. 

 

Structurally, as it is presented directly after Day 1 and before Day 2, that could be a dream.

 

 

12 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

Where they [players] want that cycle to stop, before it lets them stop. Just like the characters experience.

 

12 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

The player - no matter how vengeful they might have felt at the outset - is virtually guaranteed to hope Ellie makes the positive choice. The player is tired. The game has already run a long time, and the farmhouse scenes feel like an ending. We feel we can finally rest.

 

Absolutely. Love the game, hate the game, or have a nuanced opinion, this is absolutely true, and that is true art. As you repeatedly point out in your review, TLOU II is a go-to example of a game using the strengths of its medium (*gameplay within visual storytelling*) to express art. 

 

 

12 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

When the game then opens back up to gameplay, with Ellie in California, continuing to pursue Abby, the game's narrative becomes like a descent into hell. Abby and Ellie's continual, destructive battle is shown to be as small as it is, when both are swept up in the localised issues on a complete new area of the broken world.

 

Agreed and I like that you attribute this to Naughty Dog as a positive. I saw the extended epilogue as a tacked on experience that negated what seemed to me to be narrative and gameplay for DLC. Your faith in Naughty Dog provides a counterpoint that holds water. Interesting... I must let that one sit for a while.

 

________

 

I expected a higher placement on the end ranking. We agree on the various high-end components to this game. As I see it, the only aspect that players and critics could debate is what you and I have done elsewhere: the narrative and character development. All other elements of TLOU II are masterfully realised. As you know, I didn't like the antagonistic relationship that the game had with me as a player (I wanted other things for Joel, Ellie and Tommy), but it is undeniable that it was the planned goal for Naughty Dog to create THAT journey and that it was emergent through gameplay. Considering how much you DO like the narrative and how it was told, I had predicted a number 2 placement below Hitman 3 and above Elden Ring. 

 

Thanks again for the food for thought.

 

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7 minutes ago, Platinum_Vice said:

 

I didn't pick up on this. It is a very plausible theory. My initial reaction to this was to take it further: are all of the flashbacks dreams? Ellie's birthday is stunningly "perfect." It is what she could imagine to be the best day of her life. 

 

Structurally, as it is presented directly after Day 1 and before Day 2, that could be a dream.

 

 

That's actually a good point - I hadn't considered that, but you're right - it's such a perfect day from her point of view, that it's easy to imagine that it's idealisation - maybe the day did happen, but the actual memory of it has been coloured in and idealised in the memory... it happened something like that, but not quite as perfectly as it is presented to us.

 

7 minutes ago, Platinum_Vice said:

 

Absolutely. Love the game, hate the game, or have a nuanced opinion, this is absolutely true, and that is true art. As you repeatedly point out in your review, TLOU II is a go-to example of a game using the strengths of its medium (*gameplay within visual storytelling*) to express art. 

 

Agreed and I like that you attribute this to Naughty Dog as a positive. I saw the extended epilogue as a tacked on experience that negated what seemed to me to be narrative and gameplay for DLC. Your faith in Naughty Dog provides a counterpoint that holds water. Interesting... I must let that one sit for a while.

 

Oh, I definitely think that the exhaustion and the "wait, there's more now?" feeling in that section is deliberate - and to be honest, folks who see it as "tacked on" are not really feeling anything different than I am... the only difference is, I think it's an important narrative beat that I am being made to feel that way. The feeling is the same - its just the narrative perspective on that feeling that is interpreted differently ? 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Platinum_Vice said:

________

 

I expected a higher placement on the end ranking. We agree on the various high-end components to this game. As I see it, the only aspect that players and critics could debate is what you and I have done elsewhere: the narrative and character development. All other elements of TLOU II are masterfully realised. As you know, I didn't like the antagonistic relationship that the game had with me as a player (I wanted other things for Joel, Ellie and Tommy), but it is undeniable that it was the planned goal for Naughty Dog to create THAT journey and that it was emergent through gameplay. Considering how much you DO like the narrative and how it was told, I had predicted a number 2 placement below Hitman 3 and above Elden Ring. 

 

 

ha - man, I struggled with that placement - and where you predicted was considered quite a bit!

 

In the end, I had to see The Witness and Portal 2 as placing higher in the end, simple because I think as much as I appreciate the relationship TLOUPII has with the player, I feel like The Witness and Outer Wilds have even more (even though those relationships may be less universal, and more personal to me)... and as much as I love the overall package of TLoUPII, Portal 2 has a lot of the same elements (though, comedic rather than horrific)... and while the impact of horror and drama is certainly more visceral, I don't want to do the "Oscars" mistake, of forgetting that often, comedy is even harder to get right than drama. 

 

TLoUPII, I think, is probably the pinnacle of "drama storytelling" in games... but getting comedy right in games is even rarer - plus, there's a personal taste aspect too - fundamentally, I do think keeping a puzzle game going for that long, and telling a dramatic story, and being as good overall is even more difficult than sustaining a story like TLoUPII.

 

At a certain point though, it's pretty much semantics - I'd say that any game falling in the top 25-30 of the list now, I'm basically saying "this is unimpeachable" - they are all winners in my eyes ?

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Doc, i remember you did lot's of reviews for games that didn't need or deserve a big review a couple of moths back and i just realised you never did a review for Linger in Shadows despite it being essantity a glorifed tech demo for the PS3 (at least i think so anyway from what i have heard), so i will request that please

 

and before you see you won't rank because it isn't really a game then i will say that you have .detuned in your list so i don't see why linger in showdews shoudn't

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57 minutes ago, serrated-banner9 said:

 

and before you see you won't rank because it isn't really a game then i will say that you have .detuned in your list so i don't see why linger in showdews shoudn't

 

I never say that - all S-Ranked games are to be ranked, and Linger in Shadows is as much a game as any!
 

I’ll add it to the Priority list with your name…

 

…might still be a while though, as we’re in the busy time for me in my work / personal life, so I have enough trouble keeping up with the new reviews, let alone the Legacy ones!

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14 hours ago, DrBloodmoney said:

 

I never say that - all S-Ranked games are to be ranked, and Linger in Shadows is as much a game as any!
 

I’ll add it to the Priority list with your name…

 

…might still be a while though, as we’re in the busy time for me in my work / personal life, so I have enough trouble keeping up with the new reviews, let alone the Legacy ones!

true but i was saying it just in case you did, i still surprised that you didn't do it with the other smaller games reviews you did a couple of months back.

 

Also, off topic, but have you ever heard of the youtuber The Stupendium?

he makes good songs based on video games and i'm going to use his song fro Evil Genius 2 because it's a fantasic songs based on a awesome game (Which you should play, i recommend it)

 

he also did a hitman 3 song

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

newtestsubjects.jpg

 

269b.png!!SCIENCE UPDATE!!269b.png

 

 

The next (somewhat) randomly selected games to be submitted for scientific analysis shall be:

 

 

 

Legacy

 

3D Dot Game Heroes

Chime Sharp

 

New

 

Humanity
Metal: Hellsinger
Alan Wake: Remastered

 

 

 

Subject(s) in RED marked for 274e.pngPRIORITY ASSIGNEMENT274e.png

[Care of @Copanele & @grayhammmer ]

 

 

 

Can 'Current Most Awesome' game, Hitman 3, continue its glorious reign?

 

Is gaming turdlet LA Cops ever going to lose the title of 'Least Awesome Game'?

 

 

Let's find out, Science Chums!

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