Playstation Studios layoffs and more.

[samunrizthym]

uncle phil 😃

WE talk again about vr when your eyes gonna be wrecked by this screen directly in front of them  or your broken neck trying to avoid a thing in your gameroom while playing with the headset in front of these eyes

[majob]

1 hour ago, DARKKRAKEN666 said:

The new CEO of PlayStation comes across as a bean counter so i think they will be forced to tighten their belts.

He was the COO, that's basically the chief bean counter

[Elvick_]

1 hour ago, DARKKRAKEN666 said:

The new CEO of PlayStation comes across as a bean counter so i think they will be forced to tighten their belts.

I sure hope so. I have no clue how you can blow hundreds of millions on developing a game. Unless the license is a huge portion of it, but I'd imagine with the movie deal with Disney that the game license was part of that negotiation. 

Palworld sold faster than Spider-Man 2 on around a $7m budget compared to $300m+ budget. And it's SPIDER-MAN. Both sold over 2 million in 24h, and while Palworld was $30 (10% launch week discount), it hardly matters when we're talking about return on investment. Every company would want to spend very minimal couple million and get a return like Palworld. Meanwhile Spider-Man 2 is probably one of the most expensive games of all time to make. It's first 11 days it sold 5 million, and Palworld sold 7 million on Steam alone in 5 days. :/ 

That is insane. Stop chasing pores and photo mode picture flexing. Just make a fun game with a reasonable budget. The entire reason The Amazing Spider-Man movies "failed" so much despite both making over $700m is because the budgets were too high. (suit vfx remain top tier though regardless of how you feel about those movies). 

Sony is a mess. But I'm sure $10 more will make up for budgets inflated to the heavens and charging more for PS+ and offering less and less will save jobs or something.

[Dangisuckatgamin]

I doubt the $70 price tag is helping many developers much. Perhaps they should go back to the $40-60 day one prices we had for years?

They were greedy and now they are paying for it. Heck they hardly even do "sales" anymore. Most games dont drop below $35 (which is almost the day one price of Helldivers 2.) on a sale now.

That's just stupid.

23 minutes ago, Elvick_ said:

I sure hope so. I have no clue how you can blow hundreds of millions on developing a game. Unless the license is a huge portion of it, but I'd imagine with the movie deal with Disney that the game license was part of that negotiation. 

Palworld sold faster than Spider-Man 2 on around a $7m budget compared to $300m+ budget. And it's SPIDER-MAN. Both sold over 2 million in 24h, and while Palworld was $30 (10% launch week discount), it hardly matters when we're talking about return on investment. Every company would want to spend very minimal couple million and get a return like Palworld. Meanwhile Spider-Man 2 is probably one of the most expensive games of all time to make. It's first 11 days it sold 5 million, and Palworld sold 7 million on Steam alone in 5 days. 😕

That is insane. Stop chasing pores and photo mode picture flexing. Just make a fun game with a reasonable budget. The entire reason The Amazing Spider-Man movies "failed" so much despite both making over $700m is because the budgets were too high. (suit vfx remain top tier though regardless of how you feel about those movies). 

Sony is a mess. But I'm sure $10 more will make up for budgets inflated to the heavens and charging more for PS+ and offering less and less will save jobs or something.

A lot of those sales were hype and people then regretted buying Palworld which is why it dropped significantly in player count already. 

Sort of luck of the draw, but the pokemon look-a-like build helped sell it too.

[Elvick_]

36 minutes ago, Dangisuckatgamin said:

A lot of those sales were hype and people then regretted buying Palworld which is why it dropped significantly in player count already. 

Sort of luck of the draw, but the pokemon look-a-like build helped sell it too.

lol, spare me your myopic views. 

How many people are still playing Spider-Man 2 after it's launch I wonder. Every single game drops off after the launch period. Despite that, the 24 hour peak is still 280k. https://steamcharts.com/app/1623730 omg what a flop omg their non-service game is such a flop gaiz. They're going to lose money now because people moved on a different game and didn't die playing Palworld for the next 49 years of their lives. How embarrassing for Pocket Pair to outsell Spider-Man and many Pokemon titles. What losers amirite. I am very intelligent. 

Even under the delusional "I heard people say it and repeat it with zero critical thought" position of "nobody is playing it anymore" that doesn't matter when a game isn't a F2P service model. As long as people bought it, and didn't refund it, that's all that matters. That you make your money back. And they certainly did. Can Insomniac say the same with their insanely bloated budgets and comparatively low sales numbers for one of the biggest superhero IP of all time? 

Edited February 27 by Elvick_

[LucasDragon570]

The damage could have been less if there hadn't been this crazy focus on cinematic games, remakes and investing in GaaS.

[ARIXANDRE]

We came off one of the best years in history, with 2023 and 2024 is starting strong. And devs get laid off as "compensation".

 

It really sucks and shows how unfeasible the triple A development cycle has become. 

[Wicked--JD]

Very simple, no?

They hired a lot of people for Live Service games, they now realize that that was a bad idea/investment.

Just like many of the other studio's.

 

Now they no longer need those extra people.

Once they begin work on a new project, I'm sure they will hire plenty of people again for those.

 

For the people, it sucks.

But apart from that... I'm glad that it happened.

We as gamers have been telling studio's that we are tired of Live Service games, incomplete games and that we no longer want to be beta testers when we pay €60.

We have been voting with our wallets by not buying those projects.

 

And as a result as that, logically... they have to cut people everywhere.

So all the people that are now mad about this. You wanted this to happen.

You can't expect the gaming industry to change without there being sacrifices.

That is unrealistic

[DaivRules]

14 minutes ago, LucasDragon570 said:

The damage could have been less if there hadn't been this crazy focus on cinematic games, remakes and investing in GaaS.

Probably not. When borrowing money gets too expensive, businesses cut workforce. Most of the largest companies are also taking advantage of people expectations of all the post-COVID workforce reductions and just doing it because they can. With the significant increase in lending costs, every company is just taking the opportunity while they can. 
 

There is nothing that likely would have stopped or reduced this layoff when Sony as a company is still in the middle of a $1.5 billion stock buyback and are largely in the mid-range of their estimates according to their last investor briefing. 
 

[AJ_-_808]

31 minutes ago, Justt--JD-- said:

Very simple, no?

They hired a lot of people for Live Service games, they now realize that that was a bad idea/investment.

Just like many of the other studio's.

 

Now they no longer need those extra people.

Once they begin work on a new project, I'm sure they will hire plenty of people again for those.

 

For the people, it sucks.

But apart from that... I'm glad that it happened.

We as gamers have been telling studio's that we are tired of Live Service games, incomplete games and that we no longer want to be beta testers when we pay €60.

We have been voting with our wallets by not buying those projects.

 

And as a result as that, logically... they have to cut people everywhere.

So all the people that are now mad about this. You wanted this to happen.

You can't expect the gaming industry to change without there being sacrifices.

That is unrealistic

Don't waste your breath, logic doesn't apply.

 

Canceled project = no return on investment.  But the costs (including labor/payroll) up to the point of cancelation doesn't matter because corporate greed how dare they fire people etc 

[Mellenthin]

6 hours ago, nrs1nrs1 said:

The tech industry inclinations towards profit margins and "infinite growth" have infected almost every industry, none more so than gaming nowadays. The endless push for higher short term profits and the chasing of the COVID-era levels of profit are a mirage, and we're still feeling the aftershocks of poor management, ballooning budgets with no regard to who will feel the consequences of missing revenue targets, and an industry that has become numb to the reality of laying off hundreds and thousands of very real people. 

 

I can't see the industry improving any time soon without major reorganizing to cap executive compensation, stronger labor protections, higher unionization to protect developers and regular workers, and a market-wide acceptance that live service games are black holes that are going to fail 98% of the time, costing people their livelihoods in the pursuit of a game that prints free money. 

 

I feel horrible for anyone trying to break into this space seeing these stories happen every damn week. It's so incredibly demoralizing.

 

The global economy is currently built upon the principle of eternal growth, so why expect anything else?

 

Just saying...😟

[SelectiveGamer]

I saw something that stated that Herman Hulst claimed they need GaaS to be successful and to make a lot of money in order for them to fund their single player narrative games. I don't know if this is true or not.

 

If it is I really just don't get this ridiculous ass push into GaaS. Most of them have been massive failures and close services within a year or so. Not everything is Helldivers 2.

 

If this is misinformation please let me know.

[Rozalia1]

The cutting of jobs in gaming has been a common story and it has been promoted as simply a fact of life considering the industry not growing as fast as it had previously been doing, but regardless that doesn't excuse it. Nintendo is in the same industry facing the same things and they 3 weeks ago gave their workers raises instead of cuts.

 

It appears to be largely GaaS related. The GaaS push led to a large increase of headcount at PlayStation (so single players games in development weren't harmed) and now that PlayStation appears to have stepped off the gas (pun I know) a significant amount, we're getting these cuts. Something that makes the timing a bit off is the fact that Helldivers 2 released and is a big success, but these decisions are made long before they're announced so perhaps it was too late to cause pause. Personally I never had a problem with the GaaS push as I saw it something that looked necessary considering the Microsoft 'spend them out of business' situation, but with Xbox collapsing even further the need for such drastic action goes down.

 

It is popular to blame Jim Ryan or more recently Hiroki Totoki, but with their positions being outgoing boss and interim boss respectfully, it is hard to see it as being a decision that they made on their own. Letter talks of 'leadership discussions'. Another element that could be in play is that both know that whoever the next boss is will likely be seen to need to do these cuts, so they're doing it now themselves so the next boss can start on a more positive note.

[sully917]

I think it isn't really comparable to the xbox layoffs to be honest, purely for the fact that Xbox promised in a court of law that they wouldn't do it and then it was the first thing they did, they claimed it as something like "duplicate role redundancies" (not exactly like that but something similar), but 1900 people? surely not

 

Sony doing it is obviously not good, we don't want people losing their jobs, but despite the end result being similar I don't think the situations are really all that comparable

[VeldinX]

With London Studio’s closure that marks the final trace of Psygnosis gone. Very sad end to a once giant of gaming. 

[majob]

9 hours ago, VeldinX said:

With London Studio’s closure that marks the final trace of Psygnosis gone. Very sad end to a once giant of gaming. 

Psygnosis was Studio Liverpool, not London.

[VeldinX]

12 hours ago, majob said:

Psygnosis was Studio Liverpool, not London.

I said “the final trace”. Yes, Psygnosis was Studio Liverpool, but London Studio’s roots were as Psygnosis Camden. 

[ASMODAIOS344]

On 2/27/2024 at 7:05 PM, Thephoenixshow said:

twisted metal was apparently one of them that was canned 

 

I read that article, Twisted Metal reboot was planning as a live service game to be released along with the tv series. That was back in 2022, now in what state it was?

On 2/27/2024 at 7:05 PM, nrs1nrs1 said:

The tech industry inclinations towards profit margins and "infinite growth" have infected almost every industry, none more so than gaming nowadays. The endless push for higher short term profits and the chasing of the COVID-era levels of profit are a mirage, and we're still feeling the aftershocks of poor management, ballooning budgets with no regard to who will feel the consequences of missing revenue targets, and an industry that has become numb to the reality of laying off hundreds and thousands of very real people. 

 

I fully agree with everything you wrote, the big issue is that many publishers think that their revenue of that era and the big increase of subscription services are the new norm and still go after that, and everyone see everyday the effects.

[ASMODAIOS344]

On 2/27/2024 at 8:55 PM, Elvick_ said:

That extra $10 they want to charge is really protecting jobs like all the shill devs on twitter said it would! :'D 

Get your budgets in control. The hacks that revealed Insomniac budgets are absolutely fucking insane. 

 

Besides the increase of game prices don't forget the price increase of hardware in 2022 in all countries except USA ( in USA was 2023) due to inflation  😂

 

The budget is one part of the issue, the issue is the amount they spend is nearly equal to what they earn!!

[ASMODAIOS344]

On 2/27/2024 at 9:27 PM, samunrizthym said:

what if they stick to doing great and fun games instead of trying to sell us shits we dont want (VR?pHD needed games ?subScrition inside subscriPtion,remakes of already remake and the triple combo dlc day one ,microtransaction with endless useless season pass ,and i forgot the meta patchs who changes multiple settings  you used to be familiar with in the wrong direction like xp and progression nerf to slow you down )

 

They already answered that, the single player games cost a ton to make and that market trend towards GaaS model with real currency is what sells more according to the official data.

 

I don't like it but it's the reality 😔, look what is happening in mobile the the biggest gaming market in terms of players count and revenue,

 

More 120 billion USA dollars from micro transactions!!!

On 2/27/2024 at 9:23 PM, DARKKRAKEN666 said:

The new CEO of PlayStation comes across as a bean counter so i think they will be forced to tighten their belts.

 

CEO of S.I.E is still Jim Ryan, Hiroki Totoki will replace him temporally in the start of April and then we will see how will be the new CEO.

[ASMODAIOS344]

On 2/28/2024 at 3:32 AM, VeldinX said:

With London Studio’s closure that marks the final trace of Psygnosis gone. Very sad end to a once giant of gaming. 

 

On 2/28/2024 at 12:37 PM, majob said:

Psygnosis was Studio Liverpool, not London.

 

Both of you are technically correct. Studio London was the result of the merger between Phygnosis ( rebranding Studio Liverpool in 2000 ) and Team Soho in 2002. A number of of former Phygnosis employees later formed Firesprite in 2013 if i remember it correctly.

[VeldinX]

5 hours ago, ASMODAIOS344 said:

 

 

Both of you are technically correct. Studio London was the result of the merger between Phygnosis ( rebranding Studio Liverpool in 2000 ) and Team Soho in 2002. A number of of former Phygnosis employees later formed Firesprite in 2013 if i remember it correctly.

Yeah exactly. Psygnosis Camden became SCE Camden Studio for a short spell before merging with Team Soho to form SCE London Studio.

 

Perhaps it wasn’t clear but that’s what I meant by the final “trace”. London Studio was the last little piece of Psygnosis history still left. 

[DARKKRAKEN666]

6 hours ago, ASMODAIOS344 said:

 

They already answered that, the single player games cost a ton to make and that market trend towards GaaS model with real currency is what sells more according to the official data.

 

I don't like it but it's the reality 😔, look what is happening in mobile the the biggest gaming market in terms of players count and revenue,

 

More 120 billion USA dollars from micro transactions!!!

 

CEO of S.I.E is still Jim Ryan, Hiroki Totoki will replace him temporally in the start of April and then we will see how will be the new CEO.

Jim Ryan is on the way out. If you're on the way out you don't make any decisions. During this slightly rocky period i think Hiroki Totoki will stay in place as Sony Japan will want to get a handle on the situation.

[ASMODAIOS344]

6 minutes ago, DARKKRAKEN666 said:

Jim Ryan is on the way out. If you're on the way out you don't make any decisions. During this slightly rocky period i think Hiroki Totoki will stay in place as Sony Japan will want to get a handle on the situation.

 

We will see, S.I.E is the successful company in terms of profit of Sony group and as COO of the entire organisation perhaps he and president Kenichiro Yoshida will be more involved, but i am little worried because Hiroki Totoki said that is obsessed with grow!

[ASMODAIOS344]

As many of you are aware recently Insomniac Games has a data breach that includes games data along with the personal informations of employees made publicly known, and for obvious reasons i will not say anything else. Now what we learn is that Insomniac was working among other things with a multiplayer Spiderman game set in the Spiderverse.

 

According to rumours ( still unconfirmed ) that was  a project that was cancelled along with other live service games, for some reason gameplay leaks has started to appear and i wonder if they are real or is intensional as a way to the check if their is interesting?