Witcher 3 - Disappointing in so many ways.

[spawn024 14]

I've read a lot of praise for this game, and very little criticism.  This game deserves a lot of criticism.  It's a sub-par RPG, well below the bar of the Skyrim/Elder Scrolls series and the Fallout series.  I think games like Dragon Warrior 1 and Final Fantasy 1 for the NES were better RPG's and much funner to play.  I enjoyed South Park: The Stick of Truth more than Witcher 3.

 

First the positives.  The graphics are stunning... well they should be, it's a PS4 game.  Personally I found the views in Skyrim on the PS3 much more enticing.  If only Skyrim had a PS4 version.  The story for the Witcher 3 is one of the best stories I've encountered in a RPG.  Credit given where it's due.  The gameplay itself it quite fun and very well done, if you can ignore the flaws in the "RPG overhead", meaning the leveling system, menus, companions, (the stuff you expect to see in any RPG game)

 

The biggest flaw in this game is the overleveling compensation.  Way to take the fun right out of exploring.  This is literally once of the the worst RPG leveling systems I've encountered.  If you explore too much main missions which give hundreds, sometimes thousands of points will give you only a handful of XP.  If you push through the missions, suddenly exploring the world will give you almost no points.  At lvl 35 you get the same XP for killing a lvl 29 creature as you do for killing a lvl 1 creature.  That doesn't make sense.  I discovered the overleveling compensation when playing The Whispering Hillock mission.  I had just leveled up before the final battle and I got 1 xp for beating the mission.  I had saved just before leveling up and reloaded.  This time I didn't kill random creatures and just pushed through the mission.  I received 600 XP instead.

 

I've spent the rest of my time with this game jumping around the world trying to beat as many quests as possible before overleveling renders the mission XP moot.  I would much rather explore the world than do the missions, but if I do, the missions are worthless XP-wise.

 

Now that I've beat the game and I'm returning to areas I wanted to explore earlier, the enemies are ridiculously easy.  It's like swatting flys, even on Deathmarch.  The game designers took a great deal of fun out of this game with a narrow minded overleveling system.  At this stage in RPG history it's common for enemies to level up with the character to maintain the difficulty, challenge, and fun of the game.  The Witcher 3's overleveling compensation is a childish attempt to maintain the difficulty of the main quests.

 

The menu system is clunky and slow.  The items aren't well categorized and the L1, L2, R1, R2 buttons aren't used well at all for menu navigation. If you're in a store, you can't even tell if you already own the items for sale unless you sift through your own item lists.  You can't compare the bonuses on gear you have equipped with items in the store unless you back out of the store.  A number of times I bought armor that had better defense than mine, but upon going to equip it, the bonuses turned out to be worse than what I already had.  The delay when changing menu categories is very annoying too.

 

Where are the companions?  This is one of the few RPG's I've played where there are no companions to travel with.  Sure, a few companions are programmed into missions, like Vessimer in the first mission.  However you have no control over them and you can't bring them along for other quests and exploring.  Just another example of how this game falls short of most other role playing games.

 

The very limited ability point/character development system is archaic.  Outside of a short list of about six abilities, the abilities don't change gameplay much.  And since you can only have 12 abilities active, eventually the ability points you accumulate are useless.  There's no reason to limit the number of abilities a player can use.  It greatly reduces incentive to keep playing once you've found 12 abilities that you enjoy using.  Games like Skyrim and Fallout reward players who put in a lot of time by continually granting new abilities.  Witcher 3 penalizes people who put a lot of time into the game by de-incentivizing character development through a limited ability point system and the overleveling compensation.

 

Games like Skyrim and Fallout give the player the freedom and choice to specialize, or become a jack of all trades.  The Witcher 3 forces you to choose from a very limited skill set.  In Skyrim and Fallout the many different abilities you have allow you to approach battles from many different approaches, magic, stealth, brute force, distance fighting, close quarters...  You will find that Witcher battles play out almost the same exact way regardless of what abilities you use.  I've read some posts about how some people think the limited ability system is a good thing.  It forces you to specialize.  How is that better than a game that gives you the freedom and choice to specialize or play the game differently?

 

I heard so much praise for this game before I played it.  The gameplay is very fun.  The story is very good.  The graphics are amazing.

 

I keep wondering how a game that got the gameplay/story so right, could get the "RPG overhead" so wrong.  Especially since this is part 3 of the game series.  They've had time to learn and fix this stuff.

 

The leveling and ability point system penalize you for "overplaying" the game.  The menu system is poorly designed for a console system.  (It does seem easier to use for PC players with a mouse).  The lack of companions to find and explore with is subpar for a modern RPG.

 

The designers of this game seem intent on pushing you down the path.  They want you to play the game the way they intended it to be played, instead of giving players the freedom to play it how they want.  

 

I prefer exploring open world games a lot more than I enjoy playing missions which force you down a path.  This is the first open world game I played that discouraged exploration.  Why make all that content, then not reward players for exploring it?

 

When I started this game I thought it would be one of my favorite games ever.  It won't even make my top 20 list.  It might not even make my top 20 RPG list.

 

The "RPG overhead" is so bad, it greatly reduces enjoyment of the exceptional gameplay, making Witcher 3 one of the most frustrating games I've ever played.

[JokerJoe14 208]

But the most disappointing thing of all is that Blood & Wine is the last we'll see of this series in a long while

[LetsTurnJu-On 373]

Sorry, maybe I'm just me but why is no companion a bad thing? Most of the time companions are good for nothing except getting in the fucking way... 

 

Not being able to use every skill isn't really a bad thing either. Makes you think about what skills you really need and ones which you don't. Instead of mindlessly spending points.

 

Your menus would've been slow because of the amount of crap you've got in your bags. When you don't have all the crap they're pretty quick. 

 

I'm also fine with the overleveling system and exploring. Sure lower stuff gives you next to no EXP, but that means your not severely overlevelled when your facing bosses and destroying them in seconds, instead of the tense fights on Death March.

 

Maybe I'm a bit biased, because I fricking love the game, but I don't see the problems you saw as problems. Except the menu problem being a very minor thing, but nothing to "downgrade" the overall experience.

[Daniel_Shadow170 302]

No you lost me at saying it's common for enemies to level with you that is wrong and one of the most hated things in rpgs theirs a reason 99% of them don't do that.

[RangyRV 112]

Finally someone that thinks this game isn't that amazing as everybody says, just like me

 

I would add to your "Flaw list" the huge amount of useless items, I mean, what were all those potions for? The entire game I only used the potion to recover HP and haven't touched the rest.

[Kubanga 908]

Eh. I wasn't the biggest fan when I first got it but I'm gonna re buy it soon and give it another chance.

[nyonmyan 1,074]

I agree with Witcher 3 being not that good, but Skyrim and Fallout? Seriously? Modern Bethesda games are completely awful and suffer from subpar animations, subpar visuals, horrible writing, balancing issues, insane amount of bugs, shallow gameplay and straight up laziness.

 

Bethesda is leaving bugs in their games on purpose (google it up) and then they're trying to monetize mods that fix those bugs. Is this the quality you're looking for?

 

Skyrim was severely dumbed down compared to Oblivion (which was dumbed down from Morrowind) on top of that it also had scaling difficulty that was punishing leveling, when enemies were leveling up with you, even if you pursued non-combat trades.

[delboy_rules 265]

First off, some interesting points, I guess it shows how we all play RPG's differently and get different experiences from them depending on how we play them.

 

The story for the Witcher 3 is one of the best stories I've encountered in a RPG.

 

Job done for me when I play an RPG.

 

 

When I started this game I thought it would be one of my favorite games ever.  It won't even make my top 20 list.  It might not even make my top 20 RPG list.

 

Go on then, give us your top 20.  Or even top 5 RPG's.  (If you can, I have tried before to narrow mine down to 5!!)

Edited May 20, 2016 by delboy_rules

[Undead Wolf 21,177]

Just came here for a good laugh. That is all. 

[Redgrave 7,134]

I first thought the leveling system was odd, but I think it just depends on how many quests and enemies you fight. There seems to be an XP cap for every level that stays the same. So even if you are level 30 or around there, you can still level up decently if you even outlevel some quests. Enemies being easier could also just be because you have better equipment and know how to play the game now. Even on Death March the fights aren't terribly hard so long as you dodge and block a lot.

 

For companions, I don't really see the problem. I actually think companions would have made the game much easier because the times you are with them (say for example, Kiera) bosses and enemies were easier because she would aggro them. Plus I think Geralt would just rather work alone most of the time. I'm not sure if the previous games established that, but that's the impression I got. Besides, I like the idea of being a lone wolf monster hunter character, but that's just me.

 

Lastly, the perks builds are actually very useful depending on which ones you're using. I can even attest to using a Jack of All Trades build which helped me out a lot in NG+ Death March. I don't know what build you used, but I had a really good Alchemy and Sign build that let me pretty much wreck everything once I got it down. Sure, there's no passive abilities save for the bonus perks, but the higher level perks if you mix them right can make you pretty much unstoppable. If there were passive abilities like in Fallout and Skyrim the game would have been much more easier.

[Splathew 1,439]

This thread is disappointing in so many ways.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Splathew

[Parker 12,254]

I agree with Witcher 3 being not that good, but Skyrim and Fallout? Seriously? Modern Bethesda games are completely awful and suffer from subpar animations, subpar visuals, horrible writing, balancing issues, insane amount of bugs, shallow gameplay and straight up laziness.

 

Bethesda is leaving bugs in their games on purpose (google it up) and then they're trying to monetize mods that fix those bugs. Is this the quality you're looking for?

 

Skyrim was severely dumbed down compared to Oblivion (which was dumbed down from Morrowind) on top of that it also had scaling difficulty that was punishing leveling, when enemies were leveling up with you, even if you pursued non-combat trades.

 

Can you provide some links and sources for that claim? Thanks.

 

 

Parker

[DerelictSoul 248]

I loved every minute of this game.  And often spent hours wandering around out of mission so I really don't understand how you think it forced you through the story.  But hey, we all do things differently.    My biggest gripe with the game, (besides Gwent before I became adjusted to it) was how laughably easy the final boss was.  (Not as hilarious as the 'boss' in Thief but still)  I only did one play through on death march from the beginning and struggled with a couple key battles but certainly not the final boss. I beat him with full health having never eaten food or drinking healing potions during the battle.  I doubt I was over leveled at the time, maybe, I was only level 30 and had to do a bit of farming to hit 35 post game.  All you really need for the fight is the decoction that recovers health when you expend stamina, the fact that it lasts for 30 minutes seems rather op.

 

 

Ah Marrowind, I miss that game, that's actually a ps4 remaster I would pay for.......

 

Oh and The Bard's Tale series from the commodore 64, those were great RPGs, they probably wouldn't sell today considering it was mostly still images and heavily text based but gawd they were fun!

Edited May 21, 2016 by DerelictSoul

[spawn024 14]

First off, some interesting points, I guess it shows how we all play RPG's differently and get different experiences from them depending on how we play them.

 

The story for the Witcher 3 is one of the best stories I've encountered in a RPG.

 

Job done for me when I play an RPG.

 

 

 

Go on then, give us your top 20.  Or even top 5 RPG's.  (If you can, I have tried before to narrow mine down to 5!!)

 

My top 10 RPG's all time:

 

1. Final Fantasy 7 (the PS version) (A ground breaking game that changed what a video game RPG could be) (replayed the game 3 times and got Knights of the Round with my            golden chocobo and beat all the ultima weapons long before "trophies existed".  The first game I ever played that killed a main playable character long before the story was          over.  I kept thinking she'd come back.)

2. Skyrim (The best open-world D&D style RPG I've played, by far.) (over 700 hours of gameplay, most for any game i've played. I did everything.)

3. Final Fantasy 1 (NES, improved on Dragon Warrior in every way and set the standard for RPG until... FF7) (replayed the game 7-10 times and I still own it.)

4. Fallout 4 (The best non-D&D open world RPG I've played, by far.) (over 600 hours of gameplay, 2nd only to Skyrim)

5. Dragon Warrior 1 (for the NES, the 1st RPG video game I ever played.) (replayed the game 7-10 times and I still own it)

6. Chrono Trigger (the best RPG on PS1 outside of FF7)

7. Final Fantasy 10 (the first FF for PS2, the first RPG I played that tracked 100% completion.  Yes, I got 100%)

8. Fallout 3 (300+ hours gameplay)

9. Final Fantasy 6 (the last before the best, the opera scene was so different for an RPG at the time. [i felt that the play Geralt does in Witcher 3 was paying respect to the opera             scene], the opera scene was way better)

10. South Park: The Stick of Truth (by far and away the funniest RPG I've ever played.  A short RPG, but absolutely hilarious.  This RPG got me back into RPG's when I felt                     that most modern day RPG's were all slightly different versions of the same thing.)

 

I'm 39 years old and have a Computer Science degree.  I played all of these games when they were new games.  They are ranked based on my enjoyment of the games when they were NEW.  There are many RPG's I haven't played so I can't put them on my favorite list.  The graphics for Dragon Warrior 1 and Final Fantasy 1 are borderline meaningless by today's standards.  However, the games were incredible if you were there to experience them when they came out.

 

Witcher 3 probably would make my top 20.  I feel it would land around #17

I agree with Witcher 3 being not that good, but Skyrim and Fallout? Seriously? Modern Bethesda games are completely awful and suffer from subpar animations, subpar visuals, horrible writing, balancing issues, insane amount of bugs, shallow gameplay and straight up laziness.

 

Bethesda is leaving bugs in their games on purpose (google it up) and then they're trying to monetize mods that fix those bugs. Is this the quality you're looking for?

 

Skyrim was severely dumbed down compared to Oblivion (which was dumbed down from Morrowind) on top of that it also had scaling difficulty that was punishing leveling, when enemies were leveling up with you, even if you pursued non-combat trades.

 

For the guy who hated on Bethesda... Big games and software always have lots of bugs.  If you had a computer science degree you would understand this all too well. None of my criticisms about Witcher 3 had anything to do with the numerous bugs and game freezes I've encountered while playing Witcher 3.  My criticisms all dealt with game design choices that were intentionally put into the game.  Any piece of software as complex as Witcher 3 or Skyrim will have tons of bugs.  Gamers play games in ways unintended by the games creators.  Nitpicking about bugs in complex software just shows how little you understand about software.  I have some bug-free Atari 2600 games you might enjoy.

No you lost me at saying it's common for enemies to level with you that is wrong and one of the most hated things in rpgs theirs a reason 99% of them don't do that.

 

Considering your simple logic, I'm surprised I didn't lose you sooner..  The reason most games don't have it because it requires more complex coding techniques and because it's a modern/new trend that older games didn't even think of doing.  Many game companies won't put in the extra work that Bethesda does to maintain the game's playability no matter what level your character is.  

 

It is common in the best RPG games of today... which tend to be made by Bethesda.

 

According to VG24/7 the best RPG of all time is... shocker... SKYRIM.  Hard to argue against that.  Definitely the best modern RPG. https://www.vg247.com/2014/08/29/50-best-rpgs-ever/6/

[SuffyZorugelion 2,401]

Meh, Haven't played the Witcher, but stopped reading after you called it sub-par compared to Elder Scrolls and Fallout which are a technical mess.

[spawn024 14]

This thread is disappointing in so many ways.

 

How incredibly unoriginal.

Meh, Haven't played the Witcher, but stopped reading after you called it sub-par compared to Elder Scrolls and Fallout which are a technical mess.

 

Way to make an accusation without any facts or opinions to back it up.  Very mature.  You're criticizing two of the most beloved and highly praised game series of all time.  Clearly their are a lot of people who see through your BS.

[Daniel_Shadow170 302]

How is it a new trend when final fantasy 8 is the one that really started it? Don't tell me you actually think Beth did also good for vg to pick skyrim as best rpg even with the thousands of bugs anyone remember when they said don't go into the water it'll crash your game on PS3 fun times.

[Parker 12,254]

How incredibly unoriginal.

 

Way to make an accusation without any facts or opinions to back it up.  Very mature.  You're criticizing two of the most beloved and highly praised game series of all time.  Clearly their are a lot of people who see through your BS.

 

It is a well known fact that both The Elder Scrolls and Fallout are full of bugs and glitches, especially on console. Fallout 3 was nearly unplayable for some people last generation on PS3, and Skyrim, New Vegas and Oblivion had their fair share of issues as well. The games are highly praised because they are fun even with the glitches, but there are still tons of those glitches to be found. 

 

 

Parker

[spawn024 14]

How is it a new trend when final fantasy 8 is the one that really started it? Don't tell me you actually think Beth did also good for vg to pick skyrim as best rpg even with the thousands of bugs anyone remember when they said don't go into the water it'll crash your game on PS3 fun times.

 

I don't remember that being part of FF8.  Even if it was, it was one of the only games to do it at the time... therefor not a trend.  Bethesda has done it in several of the best selling games of the last few years... therefor a trend.  Your message is hard to understand.  You should pay more attention in English class.  My game never crashed when I was in the water.  It did tend to crash for me when the weather picked up, damn snowstorms.  You're nitpicking bugs like the other guy with no comprehension of how impossible they are to prevent in software of that size.  If you want a game with no bugs play a simple game like... Pong.

It is a well known fact that both The Elder Scrolls and Fallout are full of bugs and glitches, especially on console. Fallout 3 was nearly unplayable for some people last generation on PS3, and Skyrim, New Vegas and Oblivion had their fair share of issues as well. The games are highly praised because they are fun even with the glitches, but there are still tons of those glitches to be found. 

 

 

Parker

 

Still no facts to back up your claims.  As I've said numerous times already big games and software means lots of bugs.  It's unavoidable.  If you want a game with no bugs try something simple like Frogger.  Witcher 3 has plenty of bugs too even though it's on a much more sophisticated system.  Don't hear you complaining about that.  At least the ps3 games have an excuse.  The developers were pushing the limits of the PS3.  Witcher 3 does not even come close to pushing the limits of a PS4.  

[Daniel_Shadow170 302]

Beth fanboys are always fun to mess with here's a good one witcher 3 is the goat for rpg's how's all them game of the year awards for fallout 4 oh wait my bad.

[spawn024 14]

Beth fanboys are always fun to mess with here's a good one witcher 3 is the goat for rpg's how's all them game of the year awards for fallout 4 oh wait my bad.

 

Is that what you call fun?  I feel sorry for you.  Game of the year awards tend to get awarded to the companies that publicize their games the most.  In the same way that whoever wins the Maxim 100 hottest, paid their publicist the most.

[Daniel_Shadow170 302]

Is that what you call fun?  I feel sorry for you.  Game of the year awards tend to get awarded to the companies that publicize their games the most.  In the same way that whoever wins the Maxim 100 hottest, paid their publicist the most.

you literally made your first posts on this forum trying to criticize witcher 3 and admitted you lied about "most" rpg's having a level scaling GG I could find someonebetter on neogaf that could bring up solid points. As of now I declare the topic closed.

[SnowxSakura 6,813]

I'm not very big on western rpgs, but the elder scrolls games have always bored the crap out of me. The witcher 3 I actually think the story was pretty weak, the whole plot for nearly the entire game was finding Ciri. The gameplay I have always enjoyed though. Witcher 2 had the best writing out of the 3 games to me, haven't played the dlc addons yet. Dragon Age shouldn't be left out either, that has a pretty phenomenal plot. As for Fallout 3 and New Vegas, they lose a lot of points once the save file reaches 10 megs and becomes nearly unplayable. The gamebyro engine is pretty notorious for having memory leaks.

[SuffyZorugelion 2,401]

Way to make an accusation without any facts or opinions to back it up.  Very mature.  You're criticizing two of the most beloved and highly praised game series of all time.  Clearly their are a lot of people who see through your BS.

Not back it up? Are you butthurt coz I didn't like one of your favorite games? Seriously everyone knows those games are a fucking mess. The things I had to go through to complete Fallout 3 DLC's with that fucking frame rate and crashes, constant glitches. It froze so bad I had to move 10 seconds, save, load up the game again, move a few steps again, save and repeat to be able to reach the end. Thats how fucking unplayable it is. It's ok to like their games, but you don't have to ride Bethesdas dick so hard.

Edited May 21, 2016 by LovesAnInjection

[Xel 5,163]

Just for once I want to see a healthy argument about video games on this site. "Oh, he doesn't think game X is great blah blah blah I must attack his opinion by mentioning games that I think are better than game X". Let's just be thankful that we live in a time where we have video games.