Suggestion - White List for Trophies / Games?

[MMDE]

15 hours ago, Dav9834 said:

But you don't agree it's the for profit sites owner/programmer to take care of these problems? 

Even simply just programming for disputes why the game got flagged since very few members add that to the dispute? 

 

Is there a problem? What is suggested in this thread is preferential treatment of certain cases, because they're a bit more fuzzy, it's not necessarily true that the earner of the trophy wanted what happened. They could have done things about it, and certainly just hidden the trophies they hadn't earned.

 

You guys can make a thread suggesting that about the reason being added to the dispute. I can't remember if it has been before, but I think it would have been in some thread about something else. I can try to push a bit for it as well, since it does affect what I do.

[Dav9834]

27 minutes ago, MMDE said:

 

Is there a problem? What is suggested in this thread is preferential treatment of certain cases, because they're a bit more fuzzy, it's not necessarily true that the earner of the trophy wanted what happened. They could have done things about it, and certainly just hidden the trophies they hadn't earned.

 

You guys can make a thread suggesting that about the reason being added to the dispute. I can't remember if it has been before, but I think it would have been in some thread about something else. I can try to push a bit for it as well, since it does affect what I do.

Maybe I said it wrong, 

The reason for the flagged game I mean. Automatically included in the OPs dispute. My point being automation can but hasn't been done even in the smallest form. (but has in many other areas) 

So a whitelist to be done for the for-profit site is not possible by us. 

It has to be handled by the paid for-profit owner/programmer. 

 

You and I and everyone who has gone through hundreds(ok you definitely probably thousands) of disputes, have seen the same complaint and request that the flagged games reason be automatically added to the OP. 

 

It may not seem it, but it is all related, and the main reason why nothing has changed. There's no need to lift a finger if you have free labor. 

[MMDE]

1 hour ago, Dav9834 said:

Maybe I said it wrong, 

The reason for the flagged game I mean. Automatically included in the OPs dispute. My point being automation can but hasn't been done even in the smallest form. (but has in many other areas) 

So a whitelist to be done for the for-profit site is not possible by us. 

It has to be handled by the paid for-profit owner/programmer. 

 

You and I and everyone who has gone through hundreds(ok you definitely probably thousands) of disputes, have seen the same complaint and request that the flagged games reason be automatically added to the OP. 

 

It may not seem it, but it is all related, and the main reason why nothing has changed. There's no need to lift a finger if you have free labor. 

 

Yeah, I understood what you meant about the reason being included in the dispute thread automatically. Probably just my sentences not making too much sense.  These days I see the reason anyway, but it's nice for when I need input on it from other users.

 

As for the whitelisting, I've said it many times, what Sly told me was that it was a performance challenge.

Edited November 3, 2017 by MMDE

[Tesla_Rules]

Please bear with me as I ask 2 questions.  I just saw this and reading through are we:

 

1. Speaking about the PS3 only (not PS4)?

 

2. I see a few games listed in OP. Is there a list of PSNP prohibited games?

 

Thanks.

[Dav9834]

35 minutes ago, Tesla_Rules said:

Please bear with me as I ask 2 questions.  I just saw this and reading through are we:

 

1. Speaking about the PS3 only (not PS4)?

 

2. I see a few games listed in OP. Is there a list of PSNP prohibited games?

 

Thanks.

No, all systems that have the effected game lobbies(which may be all ps3 atm) 

And 

Nope play whatever you want to

But be careful in the listed games as you may find yourself with auto popped trophies, which will likely lead to a dispute at some point. 

 

 

 

[Rick_Sanchez]

1) As of now we're talking about a handful of games on PS3. CFW Trophy hacking has not come to PS4 or Vita where it affects other people

 

2) They're not prohibited per say but just tread caution when playing online with those games as you're likely to enter a room with a hacker that will auto pop trophies and ruining you on the leaderboard (if you don't care about leaderboard stuff then no sweat on you as you'll still be able to use the site)

[ProfBambam55]

51 minutes ago, Tesla_Rules said:

Please bear with me as I ask 2 questions.  I just saw this and reading through are we:

 

1. Speaking about the PS3 only (not PS4)?

 

2. I see a few games listed in OP. Is there a list of PSNP prohibited games?

 

Thanks.

1. yes, only ps3 for now...so far, I have not found any menus that allow hackers to auto pop other people's trophies in public lobbies on ps4, vita or vr...this may change but will try to stay on top of the situation if it does...

 

2. not prohibited by psnp...just a suggestion for whitelisting meaning not getting a strike on your profile or have to hide your game (the site would hide the implausible times with the current proposal, the details of which are still up for debate and as they stand will likely never be implemented)...what this means is that with the current system you will not have a flag removed or yield a positive result from a dispute (why even bother with the dispute then, right?) for these games regardless of intent or proof provided...if you end up in a hacked lobby and trophies ding you will need to hide the game, have a strike added to your profile, and be a +1 to the cheaters removed stat on the leaderboards page...hiding the game means you will not be able to participate in gaming sessions for the affected game nor appear in any of its stats or leaderboards...your overall psn rank here will decrease by whatever amount the game is worth...did I explain it ok?...

Edited November 4, 2017 by ProfBambam55

[Tesla_Rules]

Thanks all to who answered.  This clears up my questions, plus don't want any games hidden on my profile.  

 

[HellMoodCole]

deleted

Edited April 9 by HellMoodCole

[ars]

Exceptions are being made all the time on quite a number of titles, just not the CoD/GTA crowd (which are incidentally the two biggest groups of casual gamers and won't even see what we just did here).

[ProfBambam55]

hi guys...i appreciate the sharing of opinions here but I think it's time to move past the debate and start coming up with solution ideas...this thread has been sitting here for a while and, I hate to say it, but it would seem that we have a 2:1 ratio of people who think a white list should be implemented...i think all sides of this have been hashed, rehashed, hashed again, and then thrown in the rehasher and spat out to be rehashed again...

 

although new votes are always welcome, it would be really nice to hear suggestions on what might be possible to implement rather than just keep saying "I'm for or against for x reasons"...likely it's already been said either here or in another thread...i'm not attempting to invalidate anyone's opinion just move forward in making this possible...

 

the current situation is that a whitelist will not be put into place and this is apparently due to "lack of resources" or something like that...i'm not really sure what that means but I guess now we need to start thinking up ideas that wouldn't drain resources...if anyone has a clue what that means or of systems that wouldn't drain resources then please share them here...the person who could make this all possible has pretty much not made any indication as to whether he's for or against this or hinted at what may or may not be possible so to me this thread and idea are kind of dead anyhow for the time being...

 

on a side note, i find it odd that we can have this silly feedback system trial running for like 6 months on gaming sessions but are not able to implement some form of whitelist...seems like this would be a bigger drain on resources but I have no clue how all this works...

 

I dropped the following idea in another thread but realize it might be better suited for this one...the goal is to come up with as many ideas as possible in hopes of inspiring a solution...to me, not coming up with ideas is worse than coming up with bad ones...here's what I posted with some very minor edits:

 

"I've come up with an alternate idea here...it's not very pretty and I might scrap it upon further thought...so far, here's what I've kind of lazily come up with:

 

phase one - (technologically simple or possible?...no idea...) 

only the trophies that the community agreed upon in our whitelist are made to have publically hidden timestamps for all players...yep, past, present, and future...as in only site staff and the person who earned them could see the actual earned dates and times...this would not affect leaderboard appearance in any way...latest, first, plat and 100% achievers would appear as per usual only no one could see anyone else's time stamps for these trophies when clicking on their individual profile...only if they are earned or not...trophies achieved by cheating outside of our whitelist criteria would still be visible and subject to flagging...earned percentage on our profile pages would also appear as per usual...

 

side note : this would really suck for blops 2 and waw since all trophies can be auto-popped by hackers, even the single player ones...it would mean that all trophies' time stamps would be publically hidden for these 2 games...should they be excluded from white listing?...

 

phase two - (again, technologically simple or possible?...no idea...) 

manually remove players with  questionable timestamps from leaderboards (if this is possible on a player-by-player basis) for these trophies or games only...the cheat team would be trusted to weed out all cheaters who met specific criteria...ex. gta v - online trophy earned after april, 2017 + run like the wind...rank trophies earned within 0-20 seconds...perhaps a sweep could be conducted on a monthly/annual basis or something like that...

 

anyone caught cheating outside these conditions would undergo the usual flag/dispute process...also, should the flag team be uncertain on any cases they could make the case public through a dispute and provide a screenshot of the timestamps...ex. gta v - rank trophies earned 10 minutes apart...

 

side note: i'm not sure if a player's overall trophy level should be affected by this...i don't like the idea of it decreasing for a whole game list when only one trophy is iffy nor do I like allowing a potential entire cheated list like blops 2 to boost someone's score...thoughts?...

 

phase three...(I know this one is technologically possible and not overly complicated...yay...)

guide updates and help thread...i think it should be mentioned in all affected games' trophy guides that it is possible to encounter cheaters in public lobbies and link to a thread that explains specifically why the games are whitelisted, which trophies are affected, methods for preventing these kinds of trophies unwillingly being stuck to one's profile, and how the site has chosen to deal with them...so far we are only dealing with ps3 thankfully...i also think this kind of help thread should be created by a site mod so that it can easily be edited over time...not to hate on flow members trying to help out here but the current thread on how to remove cheated trophies to me is incomplete and it would seem the creator is more interested in number of likes than actually providing thorough accurate info...avoiding this kind of thing would be ideal...

 

there could also be an "i" icon that replaces the timestamps mentioned in phase one that leads directly to the help thread...

 

throwaway ideas here...just trying to present new ones in hopes of working towards a potential solution..."

Edited January 1, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[Se7en]

14 hours ago, ProfBambam55 said:

it would be really nice to hear suggestions on what might be possible to implement

 

I already posted it as the reply to @B1rvine in another thread and I still stand behind this suggestion: it won’t take a lot of site resources not to approve reports that meet certain whitelist criteria.

 

How it might be done:

1. Make comprehensive list of whitelisted games (up to 5 currently if I’m not mistaken) and their affected trophies.

2. Put that list into separate bullet point under “Things that are not flaggable” section of flagging guidelines.

3. Flag team won’t approve nor reject any reports that will fall under aforementioned new rule. Reports stay pending until further decision.

 

My point is, we shouldn’t blindly punish everybody because right now this site don’t have enough resources for dedicated system of removing hacker victims from leaderboards without a penalty strike against them. When the time comes and Sly eventually finds necessary resources, he’ll be able to implement more sophisticated methods instead.

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Se7en
more details

[ProfBambam55]

1 hour ago, Se7en said:

 

I already posted it as the reply to @B1rvine in another thread and I still stand behind this suggestion: it won’t take a lot of site resources not to approve reports that meet certain whitelist criteria.

 

How it might be done:

1. Make comprehensive list of whitelisted games (up to 5 currently if I’m not mistaken) and their affected trophies.

2. Put that list into separate bullet point under “Things that are not flaggable” section of flagging guidelines.

3. Flag team won’t approve nor reject any reports that will fall under aforementioned new rule. Reports stay pending until further decision.

 

My point is, we shouldn’t blindly punish everybody because right now this site don’t have enough resources for dedicated system of removing hacker victims from leaderboards without a penalty strike against them. When the time comes and Sly eventually finds necessary resources, he’ll be able to implement more sophisticated methods instead.

Sounds good to me...what does @Sly Ripper think of this idea?...

[hore]

if i had to guess,

he couldn't care less

?

[jayboo1991]

Interesting thread .. is there already a list of games, which should be whitelisted?

I mean, a game like GTA IV is definitly something, where the yet unobtainable trophy doesn't usually needs any effort .. I guess it's even more work, to searching a modder doing this ..

But what about games like Black Ops II or Borderlands, where you join without anything bad in mind an online lobby and getting penetrated from a modder?

To be serious .. if someone is arguing here with "reset your PS3 before syncing and read the topic" .. there are a few reasons, why people won't do that (as example to bring up that time to set that all back from where it started or loosing other games trophy progress you didn't synced).

I am pretty sure almost 20% from all multiplayer games on PS3 can be messed up by a modder, so you get autopopping trophys .. or well it's already enough with the wrong coop partner, who uses savefiles or anything else.

So how far you wanna go with the whitelisting?

[ProfBambam55]

1 hour ago, jayboo1991 said:

1 - Interesting thread .. is there already a list of games, which should be whitelisted?

 

2 - I am pretty sure almost 20% from all multiplayer games on PS3 can be messed up by a modder, so you get autopopping trophys

 

3 - So how far you wanna go with the whitelisting?

1 - if you mean suggested games...yes, we have a grand total of four...if you mean already whitelisted...yes, there are a bunch...anything that applies to the flag rules of "things that are not flaggable" which can lead to unusual time stamps are basically white listed...you can find the list here : click me for what constitutes a flag details...

 

2 - really?...what are you basing this data on?...do you have further games to suggest?...i'm pretty sure it's more like 0.05% maybe less of games where hackers can ding other people's trophies...

 

3 - as far as the four in the op for now...haven't found any evidence of other games having mod menus that allow hackers to unwillingly auto-pop people's trophies in public lobbies...or have I misunderstood the question?...

Edited April 5, 2018 by ProfBambam55

[jayboo1991]

1. Ah I see

2./3. This data is just my personal intention, because there is so much modders out, that I am kind of afraid, to play some multiplayergames on PS3

Well I guess there are a bunch of games, what got this problem with auto unlocking trophys or where trophys unlock in a strange way like Call of Duty Black Ops 2 or Borderlands as example.

I am afraid of playing Black Ops II Multiplayer, cause if you got bad luck, that could happen.

And as example about Borderlands I experienced myself - I joined a multiplayer lobby and collected there one collectable from the DLC, where you need to collect those pizzas and other stuff and all of a sudden, some trophys unlocked automatically from that DLC (mainly the collectables if I remember right - I hid those trophys)

Besides of that, I got double bad luck in Borderlands, cause an old friend of mine played Borderlands in coop with me and he used save files without my knowledge and unlocked then trophys in a strange way.

That's why I was interested, if you wanna include those games as well or just whitelist games, where it's just 1 trophy like in GTA IV.

 

[ProfBambam55]

2 hours ago, jayboo1991 said:

Borderlands - I joined a multiplayer lobby and collected there one collectable from the DLC, where you need to collect those pizzas and other stuff and all of a sudden, some trophys unlocked automatically from that DLC (mainly the collectables if I remember right

hmm, I've kind of stopped testing or refining a list of games as I don't believe a white list will ever be implemented...this is the first I've heard of a mod menu in borderlands that would allow unlocking other people's trophies or like gta iv performing an action that is basically unavoidable by the "victim" in unlocking them...i'll look into it at some point since I own the game and all dlc digitally already...

[thegirlruka]

A rival site has enacted a white list for games where others forcibly unlock trophies for you. The poll here is overwhelmingly in favor of whitelisting as well. It might be time for a change.

[MMDE]

Quote

Sly-Ripper: the only way I'd do a whitelist is not have it count towards the 3 flagged games limit
Sly-Ripper: nothing else
Sly-Ripper: I mean everything else stays the same, you still need to hide them

BlindMango: I'm slightly confused, why would they need to hide it if it doesn't tell them it's flagged?
Sly-Ripper: it will tell them
Sly-Ripper: it'll still flag them

Sly-Ripper: there's hardly anyone effected by not being whitelisted
Sly-Ripper: I don't see why there's such a big fuss about it

 

If anyone wondered. @Sly Ripper , if you do this, it would be nice if the games are not outright whitelisted, so one can still flag those who have used save files or edited timestamps (CFW).

[Dav9834]

So a white list would simply be no count on the 3 flag limit....

It's a start...

But still being flagged and hiding the games just seems like someone doesn't want to do that extra programming as I can't see any other reason. 

 

The leader of psnprofiles ladies and gentlemen. Sigh, I gave up long ago though on whitelisting though. Can only be concerned with others for so long. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Dav9834
Added context

[ars]

5 hours ago, Dav9834 said:

Sigh, I gave up long ago though on whitelisting though. Can only be concerned with others PSNP for so long. 

 

See there I fixed it for you. Curious how the new EU General Data Protection Regulation effective May 25th (and the latest Facebook revelation) would apply to Gaming Profiles Ltd. fetching, publishing and commenting on Sony customers' information without their consent.

[Dav9834]

1 hour ago, ars said:

 

See there I fixed it for you. Curious how the new EU General Data Protection Regulation effective May 25th (and the latest Facebook revelation) would apply to Gaming Profiles Ltd. fetching, publishing and commenting on Sony customers' information without their consent.

I see where that could be an issue. But I don't think they'll be too concerned about what trophies you get. Plus the privacy settings on psn isn't a complete mess like facebook. 

[ars]

Well it's not really about the trophies but customer data. The potential for this whole situation to go away - PSNP staff selectively picking up people on the internet, without their consent, based on their hobbies or taste in games and attempting to shame them in public for commercial profit - is just a welcome side effect.

[DARKB1KE]

My vote is still remove leaderboards.  No competition among gamers and this all goes away.