Help me understand Why some Trophy Hunters feel its fine to marginalise players with alot of Plats

[AJ_Radio]

7 hours ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

While I know you're joking, I'm glad you said it, because I was getting pretty tired of the "who cares?" nonsense, too.

 

Of course people care. That's why they're here (or, at least, I hope that's why they're here). And while I spoke facetiously above, I actually do care about my plats, and the plats of others, and silently judge them based on observation. But I don't create narratives about their whole lives based on their plats. 

 

Thank You.

 

I don't think many of us would of signed up on these forums or on the .org forums if we didn't really care. In a sense I care, I care about my accomplishments and minus a couple exploits that are completely safe, I haven't cheated any trophies.

 

Of course I don't lose sleep over trophies, but it's a fun hobby I enjoy doing.

[AlphaTrash]

@CjShai Any reason why you used "intimidated"? 

Quote some lines, who said what that you gave the impression that people are afraid of subjectively shit accounts? 

 

I'm actually surprised that people struggle to grasp an extremely simple concept. 

X account has only easy games. 

Y account has only hard games. 

 

X is easily obtainable with time and money. 

Y requires skill. 

 

People place more value on things that are harder to achieve/receive. On everything that is, not just trophies. 

If placing more value on an account because of the skill and effort put in 'marginalises' players, then everyone who gives a shit about trophies marginalises a certain amount of players. 

 

You give me the impression that you're fan of participation medals at high school sports day. There is no 1st place, because everyone's a winner for taking part. 

Wouldn't want to marginalise the losers after all. 

 

With a mindset like that, you'd struggle to intimidate a small child, let alone some random trophy hunters who happen to follow a common human mindset. 

[AffectatiousDonk]

 

5 hours ago, AlphaTrash said:

People place more value on things that are harder to achieve/receive. On everything that is, not just trophies. 

If placing more value on an account because of the skill and effort put in 'marginalises' players, then everyone who gives a shit about trophies marginalises a certain amount of players. 

 

On 11/15/2017 at 9:35 PM, CjShai said:

Please discuss freely, but stay focused, I concede you see us a spam hunters so no need to argue our lack of merits in your eyes, rather explain why you deem it so necessary to be so vocal in our degradation of your own trophy hunting experience that it warrants the treatment you serve

 

 

 

Please help me to understand the logic of your argument in relation to the question. I don't follow. It sounds like you are arguing that skill games are marginalising players. The question does not acknowledge the validity of difficulty in the degradation that is occurring. The question is based on the premise that a game as a physical (or digital) construct can not marginalise a player but rather that must occur from another person. Therefore conceding the point that any discrimination stemming from game choice and flowing from one player to another ( "spam hunter "  / "spam enabler " ) must be driven by a person not the medium.  The question focuses on uncovering the underlying reasons why any player feels compelled to degrade another player based on their game choice. It further addresses the issue by calling into focus a clarification of reasoning of how a "spam hunter " is encroaching on the own personal gaming choices of any other player in such a manner that would warrant discrimination. The question calls for only personal reasons as incited by that player, not a collective vagueness that deviates from the focus.

 

5 hours ago, AlphaTrash said:

You give me the impression that you're fan of participation medals at high school sports day. There is no 1st place, because everyone's a winner for taking part. 

Wouldn't want to marginalise the losers after all. 

 

This is an emotive argument. It is not based on any actually fact or knowledge of myself. It is irrelevant to the question. The use of this argument only serves to remove focus from your own personal opinions onto myself. It is framed in a negative fashion and based solely on your fictitious projected image of myself and by extension "spam hunters". By drawing the analogy of participation equating to losing you are actually echoing a long held but rarely spoken belief in society. By extension you are discriminating against myself and anyone else that shares the views you have ascribed to my fictitious projection. 

 

5 hours ago, AlphaTrash said:

With a mindset like that, you'd struggle to intimidate a small child,

 

Another emotive argument, but much more effective. Your suggestion that "spam hunters" intimidate small children, or try to is a very powerful negative. I am sure it will move the young but for anyone that has been around the block it is a thin tactic and more reflective of your own age (are you a student ?). Again if one can divorce emotion from reason then it has no relevance to the question. It is also as I am sure you will concede, obviously not based in fact.

 

5 hours ago, AlphaTrash said:

let alone some random trophy hunters who happen to follow a common human mindset. 

 

This is an interesting point to conclude on, are you implying "spam hunters " have a common human mindset, trophy hunters that feel they need to denigrate "spam hunters " or the whole trophy hunting community at large. I am not sure but you must fill confident in this view finishing on an absolute. It is clearly your personal view though so it is in line with the questions parameters. 

 

It is a good response, but I know you can do better. The question concedes that spam hunters are not looking for recognition in your eyes, rather just an understanding of the basis of how they are encroaching on your own gaming and enjoyment. Why argue a moot point. Besides once we understand the reasons perhaps everyone can get along. 

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by CjShai

[Superbuu3]

Giving people labels just means we're building more walls and barriers between each of us. This kind of topic should be dropped. Hardly anyone shows respect o the internet, it shouldnt be a surprise that no matter what you do some people wont like it.

[Ric]

18 hours ago, starcrunch061 said:

 

While I know you're joking, I'm glad you said it, because I was getting pretty tired of the "who cares?" nonsense, too.

 

Of course people care. That's why they're here (or, at least, I hope that's why they're here). And while I spoke facetiously above, I actually do care about my plats, and the plats of others, and silently judge them based on observation. But I don't create narratives about their whole lives based on their plats. 

 

I think most people shrug it of as "who cares" because there's nothing we can do about it. Having a whole bunch of easy games is not against any rules. We can label it as cheap, but we can't do anything about them being on the leaderboards. I suppose the site could implement some sort of score for each trophy based on rarity (I think truetrophies does something like that), but even then the sheer amount of trophies they've obtained will still get them high up on the leaderboards. 1000 * 0.1 = 10 * 10.

 

Some people will do anything to be on top of a leaderboard. All that matters to them is their name on top of a list. That's why "spam" games and trophy hacking are a thing.  I'm playing games I find fun. Yes, sometimes it's a "spam" game. I sometimes play one after a hard or time consuming platinum. Or when I'm low on budget I pick a few up out of a bargain bin. But they're still games that I think I'll enjoy for what they are. But does that really matter to anyone? Does anyone have less fun with their games because I played a "spam" game? I certainly didn't have less fun with my games because someone popped 10 skip VN plats.

 

In the end, all that really matters is the pride in your own trophy collection. No matter how it looks, or what type of games are on it. We're all gamers here, there's no need to split the community for something so arbitrary. Kick them out if they're hacking/cheating, otherwise just be glad they're a part of our community. A big community keeps the site healthy.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Ric

[nyonmyan]

9 hours ago, Superbuu3 said:

Giving people labels just means we're building more walls and barriers between each of us. This kind of topic should be dropped. Hardly anyone shows respect o the internet, it shouldnt be a surprise that no matter what you do some people wont like it.

I wouldn't mind building a barrier between myself and platspammers, tbh. I'm also quite tired of the idea that respect is a given, by default.

Respect is something to be earned, and I don't see anything worth of respect in intentionally targeting easy games.

 

Furthermore, I simply don't get these people. What are they trying to achieve? Who's going to see that shitshow in their profile and say "wow, what a champ"?

[InkSlasherID]

12 minutes ago, nyonmyan said:

I wouldn't mind building a barrier between myself and platspammers, tbh. I'm also quite tired of the idea that respect is a given, by default.

Respect is something to be earned, and I don't see anything worth of respect in intentionally targeting easy games.

 

Furthermore, I simply don't get these people. What are they trying to achieve? Who's going to see that shitshow in their profile and say "wow, what a champ"?

Why would you assume these people would want you to look at their profile and form an evaluation of their games in the first place?

[nyonmyan]

Just now, InkSlasherID said:

Why would you assume these people would want you to look at their profile and form an evaluation of their games in the first place?

Why else would they dedicate their lifes to grinding plats?

[thegirlruka]

21 minutes ago, nyonmyan said:

Why else would they dedicate their lifes to grinding plats?

Because it's fun ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

4 hours ago, InkSlasherID said:

Why would you assume these people would want you to look at their profile and form an evaluation of their games in the first place?

To quote the queen Often when we guess at others' motives, we reveal only our own.

Edited November 17, 2017 by kuuhaku

[awf9495]

I guess fun is in the eye of the beholder. Some people just enjoy playing great games, some enjoy earning trophies, and some (like me) enjoy both. Sure, it may be fun seeing trophies pop like crazy but not really sure an argument can be made that skipping text in a language you can't read for a 2 hour VN plat is fun outside of the trophy earning aspect.

 

Don't get me wrong as people can spend their time and money how they choose. I will never have big numbers as fun for me includes a lot of 100+ hour RPG's. It also includes translated VN's and the occasional Telltale game though (never skip a word though) so while I have my share of easy plats, they are all for games I genuinely wanted to play.

 

Fun for me will never be clicking on a fricking jar of mayonnaise thousands of times though ?

[Otonio_Bruno]

Please do your civic duty and report this thread for what it is: Trolling/flamming bait.

[Hvalpen]

On 11/15/2017 at 11:35 AM, CjShai said:

So in the wake of @Hvalpen thread arguing about us " spam hunters " which was allowed free run I now pose the question why do such hunters feel so intimidated by a group of hunters they associate as "spam hunters " (name acknowledgement to @AlphaTrash - sorry Sir I appropriated for my new title  ). Please discuss freely, but stay focused, I concede you see us a spam hunters so no need to argue our lack of merits in your eyes, rather explain why you deem it so necessary to be so vocal in our degradation of your own trophy hunting experience that it warrants the treatment you serve

 

 

 

"Intimidated" ? Thats a really odd choice of word. If anybody on psnprofiles should be able to intimidate anybody with their cabinet then its people like Danny_Johansen, or that one guy who was first here to get Wolfenstein 2 platinum(despite him only having like 18 plats/100% the games he did it in are insane).

 

I created the post since it boggles my mind how anybody can find it fun doing what they do to reach the top. Does that mean you are wrong in doing it? Of course not, people are different. I do however refuse to believe they are having actual fun. It probably looks nice to sit at the top and i guess thats why they do it...but i sincerely doubt they have any actual fun or sense of accomplishment regarding the games.

[Nieird]

To the OP, I dont think there's any particular reason. The anonymity of the web allow this.

[Lightin_August]

8 minutes ago, awf9495 said:

 

Fun for me will never be clicking on a fricking jar of mayonnaise thousands of times though 

 

Agree with everything you said but this in particular was a rolled gold observation.

[Wavergray]

Because some people are scrubs and some are not.

 

It's that simple.

[AJ_Radio]

CJShaj, do you hold college degrees in Literature and English? Because I had to look up a dictionary to learn half the words you wrote in your response.

 

I appreciate trophy hunters who go out of their way to earn achievements only 1 percent of players can hope to get. Danny_Johanson, VlETNAM-, Floriss, GrannyTranny, DarkSamuraii, Beatminaz and a few others, among many. I have high respect for these people because they are skilled enough to go after something ridiculously difficult. Whereas for me and many others, earning such achievements is probably out of our skill range. I already know there are games out there I'm simply not skilled enough to finish. I pick and choose what games I want to play and finish, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

These topics divide people, not bring them together. I'm basically done with this thread since all I see out of it is one sided opinions arguing that the other is wrong, and vice versa. We don't need that bullshit, it just shows how elitist some people can be.

[stpatty]

I only judge you if you have Hannah Montana and NCIS in your trophy cabinet. 

[AlphaTrash]

17 hours ago, CjShai said:

The question focuses on uncovering the underlying reasons why any player feels compelled to degrade another player based on their game choice. It further addresses the issue by calling into focus a clarification of reasoning of how a "spam hunter " is encroaching on the own personal gaming choices of any other player in such a manner that would warrant discrimination. The question calls for only personal reasons as incited by that player, not a collective vagueness that deviates from the focus.

 

Mate, you're asking a question that already has an answer, if you spent less time trying to sound intelligent and more time observing where this all came from, you wouldn't need to ask the question in the first place. 

The reason I voiced my opinion on spam hunters was because my opinion was asked for, on this very subject, on a trophy hunting forum. 

There's your answer. It's painfully obvious.

 

No one is encroaching on, or intimidating anyone for that matter. 

We're all just expressing our opinions on quality over quantity. I said spam accounts aren't impressive and now you're accusing me of marginalising other peoples accounts. 

You're right, I am marginalising spam hunter accounts, because I think said accounts are shit, so I have no reason to validate or pay attention to them. 

 

Everybody does this to an extent. Even you. There are some account pages that you go on and do not check out every game they've completed. 
Maybe it's because you see they have 124 games, 9 completed and 7 plats. You wouldn't deem that account to be very good; but why marginalise, maaaannn? 
Everyone is equal and everyone is great, we're all just the same, maaaaan. 

 

No, some of us have shit accounts, like mine and others have accounts worth paying attention to, like Kratos11911 for example. 

 

I only felt the need to publically express that I see some accounts as greater than others after I was asked to explain how I feel about accounts who hunt quality over quantity. 

 

Do I want to restrict how and what they play? No. 

I will not refrain from judging a person by their actions though, just because it offends the more sensitive users such as yourself. 

Spam hunters have spam accounts. They're not very good because they're easily obtainable and that's the end of that. 

 

As for the sports day analogy and awful your rebuttal to it; I'm judging you based of the behaviour you claim to want to see and endorse, which I find to be reprehensible.

You've came across like you want us all to value accounts equally and or just not say they we don't like or respect spam hunters, despite someone asking for our opinions on quality and quantity hunters or the reasoning behind why someone would value quality over quantity. 

 

if you do not like people expressing opinions, I would advise you to steer clear of forums. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by AlphaTrash

[AffectatiousDonk]

 

 

20 minutes ago, AlphaTrash said:

Do I want to restrict how and what they play? No. 

I will not refrain from judging a person by their actions though, just because it offends the more sensitive users such as yourself. 

Spam hunters have spam accounts. They're not very good because they're easily obtainable and that's the end of that. 

 

Not a problem, I respect your right to your opinion. It doesn't offend me. I don't agree with your beliefs but that is my own concern. Whether your judgement of other people affects them is something you have to consider and justify for yourself.

Edited November 18, 2017 by CjShai

[Otonio_Bruno]

Protip: This guy is playing/trolling you all. Big time.

[B1rvine]

@CjShai You pretty much ignored my first post.  

 

I'm curious though, do you consider yourself an elite trophy hunter who's better than the majority of people here? If you do, why? Do you think the majority of "PSNP Elites" would say they're among the best trophy hunters?

 

I'd also like to share something interesting here for everyone to consider.  Most of these self claimed "Elite PSNP" players that highlight themselves as the "best" trophy hunters and worthy of doing these contests etc, all have interesting rules in their contests.  I'll copy / paste a few random rules I've found I find interesting.

 

*  Any game, which is not 'cross-saveable', that has a 50th place top 50 time of 4 hours 30 minutes or under will not be counted. There will be no exceptions to this including spots on the leaderboard you suspect to have been hacked etc.

*  auto-pops are the only platinums to not count

*  the participant who earns the most ultra rare platinums during the tournament gets $10

*  the number for 'f' depends on how rare the platinum trophy is. Common plats get a 'f' of 0,25. Uncommon plats get a 'f' of 0,5, Rare get a 'f of 0,75, Very Rare plats get a 'f' of 1 and Ultra Rare plats get a 'f' of 1,25

 

I'm sure you can figure out where I'm going with this... but I'll spell it out.  Virtually every contest promotes trying to achieve harder/rarer plats, or discourage fast/easy plats.  Yet, the majority of "spam hunters" and "elites" that participate or claim they're the best only have these fast/easy plats.  I call that hypocrisy.  

 

[AffectatiousDonk]

1 hour ago, B1rvine said:

@CjShai You pretty much ignored my first post.  

 

 

 

 

My apologies I didn't intentionally ignore your first post. I am more than happy to answer your questions though.

 

I do not consider myself an elite at anything. I am a competitive person but that largely stems from my profession which is highly competitive and demands great commitment from a young age. My competitive streak stems from an internal desire to push myself to improve at whatever I am doing. I don't seek to compete against other people although I will definitely concede that 10 years ago I was driven to outwork, out study and out perform anyone I could. I don't apologies for that, I am not proud of it in hindsight but it set me on the path my life has taken and for that I am grateful. I think a lot of people in their 20's choose a similar path. In reflection I often admire people that choose a different path at this age. I think in large part that is why I am drawn to the competitive part of this site. I don't need to win, or even want to, but I do enjoy watching people (many of them in the 18 - 25 age range) with passion doing something they really enjoy without the need for an materialistic, financial or other transient external reward. They play because they enjoy playing.

 

I can only speak for myself but from what I have perceived of this community over the last two years I have been active is that no volume player has ever referred to themselves as Elite. No winner of any competitions on this site has either. The term when used has come from players outside this group and has been imposed, never with respect but always with negative connotations. Now I am not saying it hasn't happened, I am sure it has, but I haven't seen it, and definitely not to the extent to warrant any need for a divide. I am not going to comment on my Corporation thread so feel free to bring it up as an example if you wish. That thread served its purpose and was deemed closed on this site. 

 

Other than that it is not my place to speak for any other trophy hunter. Your question about how they see themselves is best answered by whomever you deem the "elite". I can only offer speculation on high volume players many of which are probably in a similar position to myself. They are competing only with themselves. They are always respectful and helpful to each other but remain a closed rank (most likely due to this sort of thing). They most likely have been quite successful in other life pursuits. They work long hours at times and don't have the time or interest to devout 100's of hours to a single game. A real speculation is that many of them probably work for themselves and have a high level of time management and multi tasking skills. This is purely my own conjecture though.

 

1 hour ago, B1rvine said:

@CjShai

 

*  Any game, which is not 'cross-saveable', that has a 50th place top 50 time of 4 hours 30 minutes or under will not be counted. There will be no exceptions to this including spots on the leaderboard you suspect to have been hacked etc.

*  auto-pops are the only platinums to not count

*  the participant who earns the most ultra rare platinums during the tournament gets $10

*  the number for 'f' depends on how rare the platinum trophy is. Common plats get a 'f' of 0,25. Uncommon plats get a 'f' of 0,5, Rare get a 'f of 0,75, Very Rare plats get a 'f' of 1 and Ultra Rare plats get a 'f' of 1,25

 

I'm sure you can figure out where I'm going with this... but I'll spell it out.  Virtually every contest promotes trying to achieve harder/rarer plats, or discourage fast/easy plats.  Yet, the majority of "spam hunters" and "elites" that participate or claim they're the best only have these fast/easy plats.  I call that hypocrisy.  

 

 

In regards to this, I think, and please correct me if I am wrong but these rules are in place to make the events fairer for people that are not in a position / or don't wish to use Visual Novels, or other such short games. Without this rule any event would be almost impossible for someone without the means to have a fair chance. I don't think equating time with platinum difficulty factors into the equation. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by CjShai

[Gibbo_0113]

@CjShai you are obviously still upset that you couldn't finish Mad Max 

 

On topic. I took Spam camping once......it was yuck

[B1rvine]

@CjShai I hear what you're saying, and respect that.  Again, I wasn't directing my original comment at you or anyone in particular.  

 

But, I'll answer your original question with more insight.  I agree that most people taught to outperform, that's the culture of our world when opportunities are dwindling in our capitalistic world. I disagree with some of you on several other points.  While your personal goal may not be to compete against others, your desire for self improvement still reflects upon the rest of us, in the form of a leaderboard.  People that "really" don't care about trophy hunting at all will likely not be part of this site.  You're part of a population so you'll ultimately be compared to others and have no say in the matter.  

 

Think of it this way:  You may be a really funny and charismatic person, just because you like being one. Then there's the dull and boring guy next to you.  You may not be competing against him, and just enjoy being you, but that young hot sexy thing will still compare you two nonetheless, and pick you as the "better" person. Just like the trophy hunter will respect a higher rank over a lower one as "better".  So what happens when the only comparative quality lacks any real value but is still used as a measure of "better?"

 

I also question that people really "enjoy" these games.  If they didn't have trophies would you have bought Aabs Animals? Or 1000 rated?  Can you think of any reason, other than increasing your rank on a leaderboard, that anyone would "skip" a game 12 times and do them each in 5 minutes?  How is that "self improvement" other than to increase their rank on a leaderboard against others? 

 

Finally, in regards to the competitions here.  I understand why it wouldn't be fair.  I'm highlighting that more to illustrate the majority of these players acknowledge themselves, rarer = better in their minds, straight from their mouths, but don't follow this practice of doing it.  However, I'd also dispute they're not comparing themselves to the entire community. Maybe they don't directly call themselves "elites", but again, when their own wording of the tournament is to "determine the best of the best" that implies out of the entire community, and by default, the elitist among us.  

 

Edit: Again, I don't care to attack these people myself. But I can't help but conclude the gamers that ONLY have 9 Walking Deads, 10 Sound Shapes, 15 √Letters, and 30 other visual novels in 5 minutes each, with their rarest trophy at 15% and rank 50, they're not trying to say "I'm awesome but won't do anything harder."  You don't fit in this category, personally, of course.  It gets a little hazier when the competition people also only play semi-easy stuff with the wording and rules they use, but I'd really like to see a competition to complete "Super Meat Boy", "I am Bread", and "Surgeon Simulator" the fastest, with say a $100 prize instead of what we have now.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by B1rvine
typos

[Dyztortion]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. Buy what you want and play what you want, after all it is both your money and time.