DLC trophies' rarity is now based on who owns the DLC

[lporiginalg]

Maybe we should just list every single PS3 game on all your accounts and show the ones you have not bought yet at 0%  After all, some people think they deserve distinction for spending money on DLC, so why not take it this far?

 

The only problem with this argument is that it's not how Sony does it, whereas with DLCs they are added to your collection regardless if you own them or not.

[Steema]

According to this new method, because I have not earned a trophy in a bunch of DLC in my backlog yet (yeah, some of us still have those), it registers as my not owning the DLC. Previously it rated rarity as if every possible player owned the content, which was in accurate. Currently it still doesn't work to translate the Rarity percentages displayed into ascertaining how difficult it is to obtain said trophy. Someone also mentioned this earlier, with the way boosting works these days, there are truly very few trophies that are actually DIFFICULT to earn. I still think the implementation of a difficulty rating poll would give a better idea of how hard something is to obtain, and effectively end the comparison between rarity and difficulty in a climate not suited for the comparison to be truly accurate.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Steema

[Vanilla]

 I still think the implementation of a difficulty rating poll would give a better idea of how hard something is to obtain, and effectively end the comparison between rarity and difficulty in a climate not suited for the comparison to be truly accurate.

the problem with this, like someone previously mentioned, is trolls. some people would rate an easy trophy as hard, and rate a hard trophy as easy just because they can.

[Steema]

the problem with this, like someone previously mentioned, is trolls. some people would rate an easy trophy as hard, and rate a hard trophy as easy just because they can.

Totally get that, but that is why I suggested it work the way the tip section does. I have yet to see a tip section on the site trolled with spam, mostly I see tips that are not well explained.

I can understand the voting being prone to trolling, going off the way the tips work, I would at least consider it and implement a form of countermeasure similar to the report button or the stipulation on tips that you have to have had earned the trophy before being able to leave feedback. With a truly tough trophy, would someone really want to troll its rating? Moreover how many trolls would it take to sway that rating if it is really a hard trophy?

Edited April 15, 2013 by Steema

[ihadalifeb4this]

Totally get that, but that is why I suggested it work the way the tip section does. I have yet to see a tip section on the site trolled with spam, mostly I see tips that are not well explained.

I can understand the voting being prone to trolling, going off the way the tips work, I would at least consider it and implement a form of countermeasure similar to the report button on tips.

What I don't understand why people simply can't use they previous gaming experience to figure out what's difficult for them. After checking few games on my list I can say that DLC trophies that range between 10 and 20 percent often proved to be a challenge for me.They were either long grinds, took lots of practice ( sometimes luck ) and/or good team effort. If somebody is unable to tell what is hard for themself than nobody's rating system, or opinion will help them. Edited April 15, 2013 by ihadalifeb4this

[Super Sexy Mario]

Because people are experiencing something called 'harsh reality' and can't accept that they aren't part of the rarefied air that they thought they were. 

 

They don't call them "Ultra-Rare" for nothing people!  If you want some ultra-rares or rarer trophies in general, play some tougher games and stop being a DLC-Weasel. 

 

I have some DLC trophies that I know are not a true representation of the difficulty just like everyone else, that doesn't mean I appreciate them any less.  This is what happens with trophy-based DLC, people who are trophy hunters purchase these DLCs to reattain 100% - deal with it!  The good thing is, like I said earlier in this thread, is that it affects everyone equally so really there is no difference.

 

Maybe we should just list every single PS3 game on all your accounts and show the ones you have not bought yet at 0%  After all, some people think they deserve distinction for spending money on DLC, so why not take it this far?

 

Sorry, I'm just tired of people trying to justify this being a bad feature. 

Well the trophy is going to be ultra rare if the people who brought the game don't buy the DLC. 

[Steema]

What I don't understandhow why people simply can't use they previous gaming experience to figure out what's difficult for them. After checking few games on my list I can say that DLC trophies that range between 10 and 20 percent often proved to be a challenge for me.They were either long grinds, took lots of practice ( sometimes luck ) and/or good team effort. If somebody is unable to tell what is hard for themself than nobody's rating system, or opinion will help them.

I agree, but there are obviously those who are having issues with determining the difference between rarity and difficulty. I'm only suggesting this to eliminate the need to link the two, as they cannot clearly be linked with the way trophies work. Personally rarity only represents to me, the amount of people willing to put the effort into obtaining a trophy. Very few of these things are actually difficult as opposed to time consuming. If a player really likes any game, they get good enough at it to earn the trophies, I say its all about the time one is willing to invest.

Well the trophy is going to be ultra rare if the people who brought the game don't buy the DLC.

That is exactly how I saw this at first, but after reading the thread, there are a lot of people who see it from a different perspective, or on a different scale. The ability to set a top ranked trophy list would have probably been the best solution, (IMO) to this for those who care for the profile image of having a nice set of "difficult to obtain" trophies on display. Edited April 15, 2013 by Steema

[Super Sexy Mario]

I agree, but there are obviously those who are having issues with determining the difference between rarity and difficulty. I'm only suggesting this to eliminate the need to link the two, as they cannot clearly be linked with the way trophies work. Personally rarity only represents to me, the amount of people willing to put the effort into obtaining a trophy. Very few of these things are actually difficult as opposed to time consuming. If a player really likes any game, they get good enough at it to earn the trophies, I say its all about the time one is willing to invest.

That is exactly how I saw this at first, but after reading the thread, there are a lot of people who see it from a different perspective, or on a different scale. The ability to set a top ranked trophy list would have probably been the best solution, (IMO) to this for those who care for the profile image of having a nice set of "difficult to obtain" trophies on display.

 I understand you but I think it would be better that DLC trophies come with a standalone trophy savedata. This means you can play the games and not fear having unequal completion and rarity rates due to DLC trophies.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Gary Oak

[The-Captain-388]

I'm not understanding why people don't like it, other than the fact that they lose some rarity on some trophies.

 

^ Because it's misleading the difficulty of some DLC's.  Some DLC's don't even have guides, but if I looked at the DLC %'s for the games it would appear they are easy (look at OF: Red River and Payday).  Not to mention, if a DLC had 1 trophy it would be at 100%, no matter if it was the hardest trophy in the world.  WTF?

 

I'm getting the feeling the #1 driver here was the Top 5 section of our profiles and people not wanting DLC in their Top 5...  Here's a suggestion:

 

Why not just remove DLC trophies from the Top 5 for everyone?  Or make the Top 5 customizable, for Premium Members.

Edited April 16, 2013 by The-Captain-388

[Super Sexy Mario]

^ Because it's misleading the difficulty of some DLC's.  Some DLC's don't even have guides, but if I looked at the DLC %'s for the games it would appear they are easy (look at OF: Red River and Payday).  Not to mention, if a DLC had 1 trophy it would be at 100%, no matter if it was the hardest trophy in the world.  WTF?

 

I'm getting the feeling the #1 driver here was the Top 5 section of our profiles and people not wanting DLC in their Top 5...  Here's a suggestion:

 

Why not just remove DLC trophies from the Top 5 for everyone?  Or make the Top 5 customizable, for Premium Members.

If you did that how would that be fair? 

[theDSsucks]

They don't call them "Ultra-Rare" for nothing people!  If you want some ultra-rares or rarer trophies in general, play some tougher games and stop being a DLC-Weasel. 

I think there is some confusion that "rare" implies tough. Not necessarily. My top 3 ultras are trophies from Sports Champion (Yes, I'm embarrassed about this). Not tough at all. But a terrible game.

Rare can imply many things, not just tough.

[Super Sexy Mario]

I think there is some confusion that "rare" implies tough. Not necessarily. My top 3 ultras are trophies from Sports Champion (Yes, I'm embarrassed about this). Not tough at all. But a terrible game.

Rare can imply many things, not just tough.

This right here. Many people think  Vanquish seems very hard but there others who complete it ease and in day as well. 

[The-Captain-388]

If you did that how would that be fair? 

 

The new process already did that, essentially.  One could debate the fairness of that, but this is simply a suggestion that could potentially please both sides.

Edited April 16, 2013 by The-Captain-388

[killerJAZZ420]

This right here. Many people think  Vanquish seems very hard but there others who complete it ease and in day as well. 

 

Anyone saying they can complete Vanquish with "ease" is wearing flaming pants. 

 

I personally don't see the fault with trying for something like The-Captain-388 has suggested, if its possible.

At the end of the day though its up to Sly i guess.

[Memnoch]

Forums really are a mirror of society

 

I can understand those that have DLC that hasn't been seperated by the publisher/sony on the psn coming up as Ultra is a pain, but then again, those games are far and few between, and there is nothing that can actually be done about it.

 

This function was asked for ages, but as soon as it was implemented, people didn't like it. I'm gonna go a bit with eburk's theory but also putting it down to society's resistance to change

 

I agree that people love this site because it shows hard to get trophies (among many many many other reasons) and being able to chose the top 5 trophies is probably a nice idea, but do you guys actually know how hard that may be to implement ? (I don't, but I would suggest it could take ages to program, debug, and could potentially really slow down the site)

 

At the end of the day, even if this thread has 9 pages of posts, 80-90% of people are happy with this change, that's a lot, and you can't please everyone all the time.

 

I'm sure Sly will, in time, find new solutions to this problem, but in the meantime, it would be nice to also respect the work he has done (and continually does) for the site

[HipHecooblik]

While I understand when people for- this method are saying it makes sense because those rare DLC trophies weren't even hard, how about taking into perspective the whole picture?

Let's go through 2 examples where many people bought the DLC and only few were even able to obtain one trophy in it.

 

Batman: Arkham City.

Spelunker HD.

 

Those examples above have tons of people who bought the DLCs, but only few were able to earn a trophy in any of the packs.

Previously, only the best of the best were able to conquer the DLC stages in Spelunker HD, thus the trophies were rightfully rare.

But now? ONLY THOSE PEOPLE ARE BEING COUNTED. ONLY THE MASTERS.

So now we have this inaccurate mess:

 

Except those trophies are regarded as true 9/10 or even 10/10 difficulty and only the best were able to even obtain 1 trophy in the packs.

 

And how about something you may be more familiar with: the very hard DLC Challenge Rooms in Batman: Arkham City:

 

Something look wrong there? Yes, it's inaccurate data! Basically, only the most devoted were able to even earn 1 trophy, so now ONLY the most devoted are being counted...which are few...and now we have 90%+ rarity for 9/10 difficulty DLC trophies. Incorrect.

The DLC Challenge Rooms are tougher than anything in the main base list, which now IRONICALLY contain the "rarest trophies". That is incorrect and users are being shown inaccurate data now.

 

MY PROPOSAL is that there should be a toggle button on game pages and profile pages: The button toggles to show DLC rarity % based on everyone who has at least one trophy in the pack.....and show DLC rarity % of all owners of the game (like it used to be).

This is the smartest thing to do as when there are many times inaccuracy shows it's course in the new system, we have both numbers to look at.

 

--------------------------------

For a lot of people, this isn't even much about rarity of their DLC trophies, but their "Top 5 Rarest Trophies" being different now. And some are not happy with that. So it's natural that we all want a "Top 5" or "Top 10" customizable proudest trophies or completions area.

 

However, this was already implemented on Xbox achievement tracking site TrueAchievements.

It's called a Trophy Case. Where you can put the icons of completed games and/or your proudest achievements in. This should be relatively easy to implement to PSN profiles.

If you want this to be implemented and to see mock-ups and more info, post in the suggestion thread here:

https://psnprofiles.com/forums/topic/6164-trophy-case-top-10-trophies-or-20-or-30-tbd-the-feature-youve-all-been-asking-for/

Edited April 16, 2013 by HipHecooblik

[Memnoch]

I am going to do my best to not troll here as far from me wanting to do so ...

 

Although some ideas in your post are valid and interesting, they are vehiculed with such vehemence that it makes it very hard to read.

 

First of all - is it, as you say, an inaccurate mess, no it is not ! It is compared to something else.

 

Maybe Sly should just compare the number of people with the trophy compared to the amount of people on PSN ? End of the day it's the same as comparing to people who do not have the dlc or have not earnt a trophy.

 

There have also been suggestions of having peoples 'top 5 or 10' - tell you what, MY PROPOSAL is that you let Sly do his thing, which seems to be working.

 

Constructive critisism is always good and helps moves things forward, Telling people how they should do things isn't necessarily the best way of putting your ideas forward.

Edited April 16, 2013 by leprodigalson

[Plataclysm]

While I understand when people for- this method are saying it makes sense because those rare DLC trophies weren't even hard, how about taking into perspective the whole picture?

Let's go through 2 examples where many people bought the DLC and only few were even able to obtain one trophy in it.

 

Batman: Arkham City.

Spelunker HD.

 

Those examples above have tons of people who bought the DLCs, but only few were able to earn a trophy in any of the packs.

Previously, only the best of the best were able to conquer the DLC stages in Spelunker HD, thus the trophies were rightfully rare.

But now? ONLY THOSE PEOPLE ARE BEING COUNTED. ONLY THE MASTERS.

So now we have this inaccurate mess:

 

Except those trophies are regarded as true 9/10 or even 10/10 difficulty and only the best were able to even obtain 1 trophy in the packs.

 

And how about something you may be more familiar with: the very hard DLC Challenge Rooms in Batman: Arkham City:

 

Something look wrong there? Yes, it's inaccurate data! Basically, only the most devoted were able to even earn 1 trophy, so now ONLY the most devoted are being counted...which are few...and now we have 90%+ rarity for 9/10 difficulty DLC trophies. Incorrect.

The DLC Challenge Rooms are tougher than anything in the main base list, which now IRONICALLY contain the "rarest trophies". That is incorrect and users are being shown inaccurate data now.

 

MY PROPOSAL is that there should be a toggle button on game pages and profile pages: The button toggles to show DLC rarity % based on everyone who has at least one trophy in the pack.....and show DLC rarity % of all owners of the game (like it used to be).

This is the smartest thing to do as when there are many times inaccuracy shows it's course in the new system, we have both numbers to look at.

 

--------------------------------

For a lot of people, this isn't even much about rarity of their DLC trophies, but their "Top 5 Rarest Trophies" being different now. And some are not happy with that. So it's natural that we all want a "Top 5" or "Top 10" customizable proudest trophies or completions area.

 

However, this was already implemented on Xbox achievement tracking site TrueAchievements.

It's called a Trophy Case. Where you can put the icons of completed games and/or your proudest achievements in. This should be relatively easy to implement to PSN profiles.

If you want this to be implemented and to see mock-ups and more info, post in the suggestion thread here:(link coming soon)

 

You're pretty much beating a dead horse. Im pretty sure this is a permanent change. As much as i dont like it it's whatever i have other ways of finding how rare the dlc's and how hard they actually are. Some of the games that got jacked up in the process like DC Universe, Spellunker HD, Mushroom Wars, Zen Pinball and zen Pinball 2, Marvel Pinball, Ninja GAiden 3 and so on now look like jokes and it will be funny when some people see these and think its easy and come to find out that it's FAARRRR from the truth.

 

 

 

Only Ultra rare trophies I really pay attention to are the Ultra rare platinums so loosing about 100 hundred ultra rare trophies doesnt bother me. At the end of the day it is what it is and if the majority want it then so be it. I myself would much rather have the older system and find out when I try a dlc that its not as hard or long (lol dirty minds)  as it was showing rather than load the dlc up and find out that what i thought would be quick and easy is actually a nightmare.

Edited April 16, 2013 by BALLZ

[CissaNO]

As HipHecooblik showed about Robins DLC in Arkham City... If you own the DLC by gaining 1 trophy, shouldnt the first one be 100%? How can 2418 owners with 1 trophy gained NOT make it 100%? As the bronze must be earned before the silver..

[Memnoch]

As HipHecooblik showed about Robins DLC in Arkham City... If you own the DLC by gaining 1 trophy, shouldnt the first one be 100%? How can 2418 owners with 1 trophy gained NOT make it 100%? As the bronze must be earned before the silver..

Nope - they were two totally seperate trophies (one for maps, one for challenges)

[Kittens Are Awesome]

*jizz*

I'm with Ballz on this one. I could give two shits about "ultra rare," "very rare," and so on. I'm like Ballz in the fact that the only Ultra Rare trophies I care about are the plats. Aside from that, completion ratio is really the only other thing I care about.

Stats aside, it's all about the games in the end. Who cares about any of this shit as long as you enjoy what your hobby is...gaming. Looks like many are loosing sight of that big picture. Oh well. Whatcha gonna do?

Edited April 16, 2013 by prarpin

[grimydawg___]

^ Because it's misleading the difficulty of some DLC's.  Some DLC's don't even have guides, but if I looked at the DLC %'s for the games it would appear they are easy (look at OF: Red River and Payday).  Not to mention, if a DLC had 1 trophy it would be at 100%, no matter if it was the hardest trophy in the world.  WTF?

 

I'm getting the feeling the #1 driver here was the Top 5 section of our profiles and people not wanting DLC in their Top 5...  Here's a suggestion:

 

Why not just remove DLC trophies from the Top 5 for everyone?  Or make the Top 5 customizable, for Premium Members.

 

Not really....  If people go by percentages and get owned by trophies, then that's their fault.  Most games have some sort of guide.  I kind of like your last suggestion though.

[eburkulosis]

I know this is getting off the real subject - but the more I hear about a top 5 or 10 trophy case for the Preemies, the more I like that idea.

 

I think this would quell some (not all) of the members gripes that, as a result of this DLC trophy change, have found that they do not like their new top 5 and don't feel it's a true representation of their top 5 rarest/proudest/prestigious/whatever. 

 

The question I would have is, how much data storage does this take to implement and how does it affect the loading of trophy pages and how the heck would sly even pull it off?  It could be quite an infrastructure behind the scenes just to implement something like this.  Seems like it opens up a whole new can of worms as far as bugs and problems.  How often do you let members revise their trophy case?  How does it get updated?  Maybe these are easy answers but I do not know. 

[Plataclysm]

I know this is getting off the real subject - but the more I hear about a top 5 or 10 trophy case for the Preemies, the more I like that idea.

 

I think this would quell some (not all) of the members gripes that, as a result of this DLC trophy change, have found that they do not like their new top 5 and don't feel it's a true representation of their top 5 rarest/proudest/prestigious/whatever. 

 

The question I would have is, how much data storage does this take to implement and how does it affect the loading of trophy pages and how the heck would sly even pull it off?  It could be quite an infrastructure behind the scenes just to implement something like this.  Seems like it opens up a whole new can of worms as far as bugs and problems.  How often do you let members revise their trophy case?  How does it get updated?  Maybe these are easy answers but I do not know. 

The guy Hiphecooblk posted some kind of trophy case display in another thread, i donno if you seen it yet but it looks pretty cool. If its possible to be done without too much hassel it seems like something that would make alot of people happy.

[Super Sexy Mario]

Anyone saying they can complete Vanquish with "ease" is wearing flaming pants. 

 

I personally don't see the fault with trying for something like The-Captain-388 has suggested, if its possible.

At the end of the day though its up to Sly i guess.

There will be people that are clearly better than others. I don't have a problem with this but I 'm trying to show thew problem it may lead to.