DLC trophies' rarity is now based on who owns the DLC

[Leo Leopold Leon III]

That's not true. I have the Cyberbike 2 platinum which is at like 10% or something last time I checked and that game only sold a couple hundred copies at most. 

 

that's because not all the people who played/bought the game went for the platinum, check the achievers list or whatever is it called, if there is 300 players with the game and only 30 have the platinum that is a 10% platinum...

[mattybell2117]

Interesting points - maybe difficulty shouldn't be the only thing that goes into rarity.  Something to ponder I guess.  I still think it's all relative though.

 

And, I just question your motives a LITTLE bit.  Do you really care about you and/or other members falling into a "trophy-trap" and buying DLC that they thought was easy based on information obtained here and then later found out they were much harder than they thought or is maybe your ego bruised a little due to elimination of so many ultra rares you acquired in the old system? 

 

I'll admit 100% that I'm annoyed that I lost some ultra rares. However I'm not as concerned with the easy LBP2 ultra rares I lost as much as I'm concerned that my sub 1% Payday trophies are now being considered 50+% trophies. I base whether or not I buy a dlc a lot off the rarity of the trophies. I physically struggled to bring myself to finish the RE:ORC dlc trophies but what kept me motivated was the fact that they're ultra rare. I spent money and time trying to get those ultra rares that I otherwise wouldn't have spent because I would've rather played with dog shit in my yard. People may not agree with my motivations but I don't really care. I was about to undertake that 300+ hour grindfest that it is Uncharted 3 dlc but I'm happy I stayed away from it but I have no intention of spending that much time on 30-70% trophies. 

 

I assume there are other people out there like me that base a lot of their dlc purchases on rarity but you can't get an accurate reading of a dlc's difficulty with the new %'s. 

 

@kryptid, so? That's not my problem whether people actually go for platinum or not. Why do you think sports platinums are so high? Your point was that games with low numbers of owners will have more ultra rare trophies. That's not always the case. 

Edited April 17, 2013 by mattybell2117

[Memnoch]

That's not true. I have the Cyberbike 2 platinum which is at like 10% or something last time I checked and that game only sold a couple hundred copies at most. 

 

 

You have no idea what you're talking about. You're telling me that I'm basing my opinions strictly on difficulty when I'm doing the opposite. That's what supporters are doing. You can keep adding in these stupid little jabs at the end of all your posts but unless you actually know what you're talking about you just look like a troll. Again, you can keep saying that the %'s being off now are a matter of opinion but again, they're not. Find me someone who thinks that 99.78% of people who bought the Arkham City dlc got 78 medals and I'll show you a dumbass. 

 

No I took your way of doing things and said it could be done the other way around, however I actually have the decency to not involve other people in it or start name calling. you got hard trophies, more power to you. but guess what, I had 0.25% trophies for DLC, normal considering that hardly anyone actually did them.

 

If you really want rarity, maybe we should just count them against the number of people actually having a psn ID ?

 

Horses for courses and all that

 

Anywho we're going in circles so no point posting all the time - you don't like it, other people do, period.

[Plataclysm]

HAHAHA!  Oh gyad.  You guys are grasping at straws now.  What a horrible, malicious person I am.  You sure do have a flair for the dramatic.  Totally taken out of context.  I was responding to people who are butthurt over all their ultra-rare trophies that were super easy to begin with being skewed in the other direction due to the change.  Has nothing to do with people that buy DLC, enjoy it, got GOTY or whatever.  (I buy more DLC than most people on this site, that's why it was said in jest)  I lost 100's of trophies due to this change, but it doesn't even matter because it affects everyone the same way.  I'm not saying it's perfect, but I do think it's 'better'  If you think it sucks, that's fine too.

 

Has nothing to do with mis-skewed exceptions like The Batman AC Nightwing'esque trophies that are a misrepresentation of skill or difficulty, if you read back at my other posts, you will see that. 

 

 

You are the most evil sob ive ever met  

 

 

Only suggestion i could think of to make everyone happy is maybe a toggle option of using the old system and new system? Not sure if thats something that would be easy to do or not.

Edited April 17, 2013 by BALLZ

[mattybell2117]

No I took your way of doing things and said it could be done the other way around, however I actually have the decency to not involve other people in it or start name calling. you got hard trophies, more power to you. but guess what, I had 0.25% trophies for DLC, normal considering that hardly anyone actually did them.

 

If you really want rarity, maybe we should just count them against the number of people actually having a psn ID ?

 

Horses for courses and all that

 

Anywho we're going in circles so no point posting all the time - you don't like it, other people do, period.

 

Other people also don't like it. If you'd bother to actually read opposing opinions instead of just writing random nonsense you would see that. 

 

Your suggestion of comparing to people who have a psn doesn't make sense. People sign up for these websites with the intention that they are trophy hunters and strive to get trophies. I'd say 75% of created psns are almost strictly for online shooter players like call of duty, multiple accounts, or people who just use the ps3 for netflix and hulu and stuff. Why would I care if my dad got the Payday dlc trophies? I do however care about whether or not other people who played Payday got the dlc trophies. I made a psn for my dad to watch movies on my second ps3, are you saying his psn should be factored in?

 

 

 

For the record I'm in favour of a toggle between the old and new system. If there's a toggle for the trophy advisor I'm sure there can be a toggle for the rarity. 

Edited April 17, 2013 by mattybell2117

[Aipher]

The fact is that the new method compounds inaccuracy by adding another inaccurate and unverifiable variable (number of people with the dlc). Furthermore, in several cases, said variable is simply missing (games with no separation of dlc trophy list). So it renders the system ultimately redundant and serving no meaningful purpose.

 

The original system, while also not 100% accurate, at least gave some semblance of accurate rarity percentage, whether people like it or not. Easy or hard, less people who have it = more rare - simple. 

 

When 200,000 people have played a game and only 2000 people got a trophy in the same game (dlc or not), it is considered rare - irrefutable fact. But when the system just compares those people against only a part of the original 200,000 who are confirmed to have the dlc (a number which is, and always will be inaccurate and unverifiable) you will almost always get an inaccurate rarity percentage.

 

I could care less about 'losing' rare trophies be them easy or hard; I get rare and common trophies alike for the hell of it, for a challenge and of course having fun. And I sure as hell feel much more proud of an ultra rare difficult platinum than an effortless ultra rare dlc trophy. I just don't like inaccurate statistics and I think that sacrificing real data for misrepresented data is not good policy.

 

One argument is that we will never truly be accurate because only a fraction of the numbers is on this particular site. That's not the point though; the point is to get the most accurate numbers from the relevant data available to us at the time. The more raw data that comes in, the more accurate it becomes. By using the new inaccurate variable, you just get an ambiguous figure that doesn't really have any meaning or serve any purpose.

[mattybell2117]

The fact is that the new method compounds inaccuracy by adding another inaccurate and unverifiable variable (number of people with the dlc). Furthermore, in several cases, said variable is simply missing (games with no separation of dlc trophy list). So it renders the system ultimately redundant and serving no meaningful purpose.

 

The original system, while also not 100% accurate, at least gave some semblance of accurate rarity percentage, whether people like it or not. Easy or hard, less people who have it = more rare - simple. 

 

When 200,000 people have played a game and only 2000 people got a trophy in the same game (dlc or not), it is considered rare - irrefutable fact. But when the system just compares those people against only a part of the original 200,000 who are confirmed to have the dlc (a number which is, and always will be inaccurate and unverifiable) you will almost always get an inaccurate rarity percentage.

 

I could care less about 'losing' rare trophies be them easy or hard; I get rare and common trophies alike for the hell of it, for a challenge and of course having fun. And I sure as hell feel much more proud of an ultra rare difficult platinum than an effortless ultra rare dlc trophy. I just don't like inaccurate statistics and I think that sacrificing real data for misrepresented data is not good policy.

 

One argument is that we will never truly be accurate because only a fraction of the numbers is on this particular site. That's not the point though; the point is to get the most accurate numbers from the relevant data available to us at the time. The more raw data that comes in, the more accurate it becomes. By using the new inaccurate variable, you just get an ambiguous figure that doesn't really have any meaning or serve any purpose.

 

Very well said. After refuting arguments that make absolutely no sense time and time again, I was getting impatient. I felt like I was making sense but perhaps I didn't explain thoroughly enough. I hope your post clears it up for some people. 

[Arkthur]

I don't agree with the option to toggle the new system, is not a leaderborad filter. But if so much people are complaining about the rarity-dificulty relation (wich I don't see any), why don't add the option for us to rate the dificulty? I believe this has been talked about before but since there are so many people sad that their profile is less shiny after loosing some numbers, should be good to add others.

[Dr_Mayus]

Ok I think certain people are taking this way too seriously. Do you really think people look at your profile and start applauding you for how many ultra rare trophies you have? Look at my profile, some of my ultra rare trophies are

 

Scene It

Lead Role
Score more than 400,000 points in a Long Game.

 

EA Sports Active 2

Lunge Expert
Complete 1000 Lunges

 

Michael Jackson Experience

Lock and Pop
29 different songs (two singers)

 

I would rather people look at my list and say "wow he got the 3d dot plat" or "Hmm, Virtues Last Reward. I heard that was good I should ask him about it."

 

Rarity doesn't mean anything to anyone but you. Sly didn't take your trophies away from you. They are still there and if they are impressive (like 100% in batman AC) then people will still notice it.

[killerJAZZ420]

Ok I think certain people are taking this way too seriously.

 

Settle down. 

 

Theres nothing wrong with wanting you're URs to stay that way and people have already stated how they feel about this. 

You like the change. We get it, No reason to keep coming back to prove a point that no one cares about any more. 

 

In all honesty i'm surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet. 

[Memnoch]

In all honesty i'm surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet. 

 

End of the day it's just opinions as long as it stays more or less polite ...

[Mammouth25]

I see some little mistakes on DLC pack for 3 games :

 

Marvel Pinball :

- DLC pack 3, 4, 5 and 6 are an unique DLC pack "Vengeance & Virtue", you can't buy each table separately

- DLC pack 7, 8, 9 and 10 are an unique DLC pack "Avengers Chronicles", you can't buy each table separately

 

Zen Pinball :

- trophies "Thunder Kick", "Hammer Hand", "Warrior" and "World Warrior Champion" are part of an individual DLC pack "Street Fighter II Tribute"

- trophies "Swordmaster" , "Hidden Path", "Cruel Justice" and "Genshin defeted" are part of an individual DLC pack "Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2"

- trophies "Fame is NOT fleeting", "Defenser of Camelot", "Visit to the Sorcereress" and "A Knight's Tale" are part of an individual DLC pack "Excalibur"

- trophies "Fire in the Hole", "Never give up", "Escape from Pinball City" and "Leader of Resistance" are part of an individual DLC pack "Earth Defense"

 

Zen Pinball 2 :

- trophies "Cosmic Advantage" and "Supremacy" are part of an individual DLC pack "Captain America"

- trophies "Letter from Mom" and "Malfunction" are part of an individual DLC pack "Plants vs Zombies"

- trophies "Torched" and "Devourer of Worlds" are part of an individual DLC pack "Fantastic Four"

- trophies "Majority Leader" and "Unbreakable" are part of an individual DLC pack "Civil War"

 

Hope it is the right place to write this

[Memnoch]

I see some little mistakes on DLC pack for 3 games :

 

Marvel Pinball :

- DLC pack 3, 4, 5 and 6 are an unique DLC pack "Vengeance & Virtue", you can't buy each table separately

- DLC pack 7, 8, 9 and 10 are an unique DLC pack "Avengers Chronicles", you can't buy each table separately

 

Zen Pinball :

- trophies "Thunder Kick", "Hammer Hand", "Warrior" and "World Warrior Champion" are part of an individual DLC pack "Street Fighter II Tribute"

- trophies "Swordmaster" , "Hidden Path", "Cruel Justice" and "Genshin defeted" are part of an individual DLC pack "Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2"

- trophies "Fame is NOT fleeting", "Defenser of Camelot", "Visit to the Sorcereress" and "A Knight's Tale" are part of an individual DLC pack "Excalibur"

- trophies "Fire in the Hole", "Never give up", "Escape from Pinball City" and "Leader of Resistance" are part of an individual DLC pack "Earth Defense"

 

Zen Pinball 2 :

- trophies "Cosmic Advantage" and "Supremacy" are part of an individual DLC pack "Captain America"

- trophies "Letter from Mom" and "Malfunction" are part of an individual DLC pack "Plants vs Zombies"

- trophies "Torched" and "Devourer of Worlds" are part of an individual DLC pack "Fantastic Four"

- trophies "Majority Leader" and "Unbreakable" are part of an individual DLC pack "Civil War"

 

Hope it is the right place to write this

 

Probably best to post here : https://psnprofiles.com/forums/forum/5-feedback-suggestions-bugs/

[ONUOsFan]

The fact is that the new method compounds inaccuracy by adding another inaccurate and unverifiable variable (number of people with the dlc). Furthermore, in several cases, said variable is simply missing (games with no separation of dlc trophy list). So it renders the system ultimately redundant and serving no meaningful purpose.

 

The original system, while also not 100% accurate, at least gave some semblance of accurate rarity percentage, whether people like it or not. Easy or hard, less people who have it = more rare - simple. 

 

When 200,000 people have played a game and only 2000 people got a trophy in the same game (dlc or not), it is considered rare - irrefutable fact. But when the system just compares those people against only a part of the original 200,000 who are confirmed to have the dlc (a number which is, and always will be inaccurate and unverifiable) you will almost always get an inaccurate rarity percentage.

 

I could care less about 'losing' rare trophies be them easy or hard; I get rare and common trophies alike for the hell of it, for a challenge and of course having fun. And I sure as hell feel much more proud of an ultra rare difficult platinum than an effortless ultra rare dlc trophy. I just don't like inaccurate statistics and I think that sacrificing real data for misrepresented data is not good policy.

 

One argument is that we will never truly be accurate because only a fraction of the numbers is on this particular site. That's not the point though; the point is to get the most accurate numbers from the relevant data available to us at the time. The more raw data that comes in, the more accurate it becomes. By using the new inaccurate variable, you just get an ambiguous figure that doesn't really have any meaning or serve any purpose.

 

This is actually a really good argument. I kind of like the new system (or at least the idea of it), but I'm also a big fan of consistency, and based on the way things are currently being done, there's just no way to be consistent. My vote would be to go back to the way things were and provide filtering options...

[simula67]

The fact is that the new method compounds inaccuracy by adding another inaccurate and unverifiable variable (number of people with the dlc). Furthermore, in several cases, said variable is simply missing (games with no separation of dlc trophy list). So it renders the system ultimately redundant and serving no meaningful purpose.

 

The original system, while also not 100% accurate, at least gave some semblance of accurate rarity percentage, whether people like it or not. Easy or hard, less people who have it = more rare - simple. 

 

When 200,000 people have played a game and only 2000 people got a trophy in the same game (dlc or not), it is considered rare - irrefutable fact. But when the system just compares those people against only a part of the original 200,000 who are confirmed to have the dlc (a number which is, and always will be inaccurate and unverifiable) you will almost always get an inaccurate rarity percentage.

 

I could care less about 'losing' rare trophies be them easy or hard; I get rare and common trophies alike for the hell of it, for a challenge and of course having fun. And I sure as hell feel much more proud of an ultra rare difficult platinum than an effortless ultra rare dlc trophy. I just don't like inaccurate statistics and I think that sacrificing real data for misrepresented data is not good policy.

 

One argument is that we will never truly be accurate because only a fraction of the numbers is on this particular site. That's not the point though; the point is to get the most accurate numbers from the relevant data available to us at the time. The more raw data that comes in, the more accurate it becomes. By using the new inaccurate variable, you just get an ambiguous figure that doesn't really have any meaning or serve any purpose.

 

I agree with this. There is not always a correlation between trophy rarity and trophy difficulty, which seems to be part of people's complaints with the old system. That being the case, I would much rather have a statistically accurate system in place that one that uses incomplete data sources.

[ASlimeAppears]

The fact is that the new method compounds inaccuracy by adding another inaccurate and unverifiable variable (number of people with the dlc). Furthermore, in several cases, said variable is simply missing (games with no separation of dlc trophy list). So it renders the system ultimately redundant and serving no meaningful purpose.

 

The original system, while also not 100% accurate, at least gave some semblance of accurate rarity percentage, whether people like it or not. Easy or hard, less people who have it = more rare - simple. 

 

When 200,000 people have played a game and only 2000 people got a trophy in the same game (dlc or not), it is considered rare - irrefutable fact. But when the system just compares those people against only a part of the original 200,000 who are confirmed to have the dlc (a number which is, and always will be inaccurate and unverifiable) you will almost always get an inaccurate rarity percentage.

 

I could care less about 'losing' rare trophies be them easy or hard; I get rare and common trophies alike for the hell of it, for a challenge and of course having fun. And I sure as hell feel much more proud of an ultra rare difficult platinum than an effortless ultra rare dlc trophy. I just don't like inaccurate statistics and I think that sacrificing real data for misrepresented data is not good policy.

 

One argument is that we will never truly be accurate because only a fraction of the numbers is on this particular site. That's not the point though; the point is to get the most accurate numbers from the relevant data available to us at the time. The more raw data that comes in, the more accurate it becomes. By using the new inaccurate variable, you just get an ambiguous figure that doesn't really have any meaning or serve any purpose.

 

The problem with using every game owner to calculate DLC rarity is that you are counting a shit ton of people who do not have the DLC and never will.  it would be the same as using every single site user in main game calculations, a lot of those people don't have the game and never will.  You can't push for the site to return to the old way unless you also push for the site to use every site user in main game calculations, because that's where the real inaccuracy is.  Main game and DLC had their rarity calculated differently using the old way.  Now, they are calculated the same way...only including the people who own the content in question.

[mattybell2117]

The problem with using every game owner to calculate DLC rarity is that you are counting a shit ton of people who do not have the DLC and never will.  it would be the same as using every single site user in main game calculations, a lot of those people don't have the game and never will.  You can't push for the site to return to the old way unless you also push for the site to use every site user in main game calculations, because that's where the real inaccuracy is.  Main game and DLC had their rarity calculated differently using the old way.  Now, they are calculated the same way...only including the people who own the content in question.

 

Wow, you're absolutely right, I never thought of that. That's completely the next logical step. 

 

Actually I think Sly should just compare every trophy to everyone who owns a ps3, all 70+ million people. Or better yet lets just compare it to everyone who owns a next gen console because that's completely logical in getting an accurate rating. 

 

Your argument seriously comes down to "you can't go back to the old way unless you compare every trophy to every single person who's ever registered on the site"? That's ridiculous. 

 

As it is, like 20% of dlc is still being grouped in with the main game's trophies so if you're looking for real inconsistency, take a look at how some dlc's rarity is being one way and other dlc's rarity is being calculated another way. 

[lporiginalg]

The fact is that the new method compounds inaccuracy by adding another inaccurate and unverifiable variable (number of people with the dlc). Furthermore, in several cases, said variable is simply missing (games with no separation of dlc trophy list). So it renders the system ultimately redundant and serving no meaningful purpose.

 

I could care less about 'losing' rare trophies be them easy or hard; I get rare and common trophies alike for the hell of it, for a challenge and of course having fun. And I sure as hell feel much more proud of an ultra rare difficult platinum than an effortless ultra rare dlc trophy. I just don't like inaccurate statistics and I think that sacrificing real data for misrepresented data is not good policy.

 

This.

 

I lost some ultra rares and will lose still a bunch more if the older DLC's are updated but I don't mind at all if that happens in fact I would be thrilled because then the system would be consistent again even tho it will always have the fundamental flaw that the method used to determine DLC ownership is unreliable.

And for Dr_Mayus who askes if people are looking at the number of ultra rares, the answer is obviously yes. Personally the only things I really look at when I check someone's profile is the completion ratio, number of plats, number of ultra rares, and maybe scroll through to see if they have any really difficult plats. But currently I know the number of ultra rares can be very misleading and is basically pointless to look at because of the older DLC's still being ultra rare and also because I have a number of those DLC trophies myself I can't really just pat myself on the back for having more ultra rares. The whole ultra rare system is pointless right now unless you wanna manually go through and count their old DLC trophies.

[Kittens Are Awesome]

I pressed "Like" on two completely different posts on this page, yet they both said the same thing.  

 

All of this change only affects you if you let it.  And before anybody says anything, I only have 32 plats, I had over 200 Ultra Rare trophies.  I lost over 70 after the change.  So yes, I was affected dramatically in numbers and %s.  But guess what?  I don't give a flying Irish turd.  However, I also don't think it's a better system, mainly because of exactly what Aipher said.  

 

But again, even though I think it's a less accurate system, it doesn't affect me.  It doesn't change the way I play games nor does it change the way I buy games.

 

And just for a little example: I bought the Quantum Conundrum DLCs, however, I have yet to play any of the levels or earn a single trophy from either DLC pack.

Edited April 23, 2013 by prarpin

[ASlimeAppears]

Wow, you're absolutely right, I never thought of that. That's completely the next logical step.

Actually I think Sly should just compare every trophy to everyone who owns a ps3, all 70+ million people. Or better yet lets just compare it to everyone who owns a next gen console because that's completely logical in getting an accurate rating.

Your argument seriously comes down to "you can't go back to the old way unless you compare every trophy to every single person who's ever registered on the site"? That's ridiculous.

As it is, like 20% of dlc is still being grouped in with the main game's trophies so if you're looking for real inconsistency, take a look at how some dlc's rarity is being one way and other dlc's rarity is being calculated another way.

Well, if all you are concerned about is actual rarity, then yeah, the next step is including every PS3 user. However, my argument is the old way treated main game and DLC trophies differently, now they are treated the same. Only people who we know own the content are included in the calculations. I am not actually pushing for us to include every site user in main game calculations. I merely mentioned it to relate how DLC was treated using the old way.

Edited April 23, 2013 by ASlimeAppears

[twyz]

Is it really that big of deal? Some people really put to much importance on trophies.

[Aipher]

Well, if all you are concerned about is actual rarity, then yeah, the next step is including every PS3 user.

 

Even if that was possible, and Sly actually decided to do it, how would that information be pertinent to trophy collectors and users of this site? Why not go a step further and try to include everyone on the planet? Where do we stop? Ultimately, we are trying to remove redundant data and get to the real relevant substance.

 

However, my argument is the old way treated main game and DLC trophies differently, now they are treated the same. Only people who we know own the content are included in the calculations. I am not actually pushing for us to include every site user in main game calculations. I merely mentioned it to relate how DLC was treated using the old way.

 

Actually, it's the new method that treats them differently. DLC is inherently part of a game, and not a standalone title, therefore the statistics should wholly encompass everyone with that game. Whilst a lot of people will never own/play the DLC, they are still playing the same title. The new system is incorrectly judging the DLC trophy rarity as it if were its own game. 

 

Then comes the fact that there is simply no accurate way of knowing who owns DLC, and because of that, the new system will always produce an inaccurate figure. You can't segregate a portion (even worse, an unknown portion) of the population when making an overall assessment. And of course sometimes, you get disguised DLC trophies like in the case of Motorstorm: PR, GTA4, etc that are incompatible with the new system completely.

 

This is just my observation, but people in favor of the new system are generally happy that DLC trophy rarity seems more accurate because some trophies that are perceived as being easy are now being shown as more common. But this change comes at the expense of rare trophies being made falsely more common. In both cases, the numbers are equally misleading.

 

As demonstrated in another post, there is DLC that people own/play, but never get any trophies for, and are consequently unaccounted for in the calculation. Also, there are reasons why some DLC trophies are rare - the DLC may be bad, the DLC may be expensive, the DLC trophies might have insane requirements etc etc..  But at the end of the day the DLC is part of the same game. A rare trophy should be rare, and a common trophy should be common, irrespective of difficulty. The new system simply doesn't show that.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Aipher

[closertim]

seems fair enough to me. If you don't "own" the DLC, why should you be included in the stats. In my opinion, most people buy the DLC to 100% a game anyway, so of course the rarity is going to be high.

 

I really don't understand why people are getting so upset about it. Its like saying, why not make every game out of 1,029,000 users or whatever it is, because potentially, we could play every game if we paid for it.

[ASlimeAppears]

 

Even if that was possible, and Sly actually decided to do it, how would that information be pertinent to trophy collectors and users of this site? Why not go a step further and try to include everyone on the planet? Where do we stop? Ultimately, we are trying to remove redundant data and get to the real relevant substance.

 

Well, let me ask you this.  How was the old rarity pertinent to anyone?  What exactly could you gleam from it?

[Aipher]

Well, let me ask you this.  How was the old rarity pertinent to anyone?  What exactly could you gleam from it?

 

For one, you get a more accurate and realistic representation of collected data.

 

But since you asked, how is a statistic built on an incomplete/inaccurate/unverifiable variable pertinent to anyone?