New Leaderboard counting only 1 platinum per game.

[Cassylvania]

20 hours ago, Hemiak said:

For those thinking this is pointless, do you acknowledge that, right or wrong, there are those of us who value uniqueness in our games? It's kind of how I'm not a vegetarian, but I understand there are many of them out there. I wouldn't try to convince a restaurant not to have some vegetarian meals on the menu, just because I don't see the point. 

 

Even if we assume this would be easy to implement from a technical standpoint, the problem is that not everybody is going to agree on what is a "unique" game. Vegetarians have the same problem when it comes to what is and isn't considered an animal product. Lacto-vegetarians will not dairy products but not eggs, ovo-vegetarians will eat eggs but not dairy products, and vegans won't eat either. There are even sub-classes of those. If there isn't a clear distinct that everybody can agree on, you're undoubtedly going to have people complain when you try to draw a line down the middle, as this topic has shown. Even if you tried to be as transparent as possible and said, "Okay, we're only going to consider games with the exact same trophy lists as stacks," you still have remasters where enough other things have been tweaked that they could be considered new experiences, and games like Kingdom Hearts where the trophies are the same but the requirements for them have been changed. And what do you do about something like Guacamelee, which has what I assume are the same trophy lists in two different regions on the PS3/Vita, but only one region has DLC trophies, and also there's a complete edition on the PS4, which has a different DLC pack and some different trophies, but is ultimately the same game? Is that one, two, or three "unique" experiences? If the answer to that isn't something everyone can agree on, then the new leaderboard is just going to invite arguments.

[cris3f]

I think it's a good idea. I just have (will) one stack and it's a 200 hour game. There will be arguments valid for both sides, but I think it's as good as the rarity some people find interesting some not, but it's there for those who care.

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by cris3f

[Manuelito]

Yeah, getting every version of sound shapes doesnt take skills but in the end in this type of leaderboard you would hide many platinums which actually took some damn effort.?

[KondeBra]

Right now the leaderboards are pointless since the profiles are not being auto updated.

[Hemiak]

49 minutes ago, Cassylvania said:

 

Even if we assume this would be easy to implement from a technical standpoint, the problem is that not everybody is going to agree on what is a "unique" game. Vegetarians have the same problem when it comes to what is and isn't considered an animal product. Lacto-vegetarians will not dairy products but not eggs, ovo-vegetarians will eat eggs but not dairy products, and vegans won't eat either. There are even sub-classes of those. If there isn't a clear distinct that everybody can agree on, you're undoubtedly going to have people complain when you try to draw a line down the middle, as this topic has shown. Even if you tried to be as transparent as possible and said, "Okay, we're only going to consider games with the exact same trophy lists as stacks," you still have remasters where enough other things have been tweaked that they could be considered new experiences, and games like Kingdom Hearts where the trophies are the same but the requirements for them have been changed. And what do you do about something like Guacamelee, which has what I assume are the same trophy lists in two different regions on the PS3/Vita, but only one region has DLC trophies, and also there's a complete edition on the PS4, which has a different DLC pack and some different trophies, but is ultimately the same game? Is that one, two, or three "unique" experiences? If the answer to that isn't something everyone can agree on, then the new leaderboard is just going to invite arguments.

You're over complicating the issue. This leaderboard would simply a way to see who had played how many "unique" games. People wouldn't check this, then check the rarity or overall difficulty of the leftover list. 

 

My previous post shows how to deal with this. Any issues of whether two of the exact same games have different trophies are meaningless. If one trophy list is worth more points, that's the one that counts. If they're the same amount of points, does it really matter which one counts? No. 

 

Also, I never said coding this would be easy, it would probably be a pain in the ass. That's not for us to decide though (nothing really is, it isn't our site) We're just debating whether it would be an interesting addition. Honestly I'd be fine if the site auto eliminated the stacks and just showed a number next to your total plat count showing the modified result. You could even have a setting to turn it off if it offends you that much. 

 

Since you commented on the vegetarian example I'll respond and pass it back. You're right, there are multiple different versions of vegetarianism, but that's for them to decide. The moment you say, hey I like meat, you sacrafice your right to weigh in on what/how they decide on the rules. We'll, you could still comment I guess, but who's going to listen to your arguments?

 

It's the same here. There are several people who have pulled in and said "I don't like this idea and here's why" that's totally fine and you've been heard. But now you're trying to throw your ideas of how it can or can't be figured out into the topic. Let the people that like the idea decide how they want to implement the design. It still might not turn out to be feasible, and maybe we can't even come to ab agreement, but at least we don't have people actively working against the idea. 

[madbuk]

4 minutes ago, Hemiak said:

You're over complicating the issue. This leaderboard would simply a way to see who had played how many "unique" games. People wouldn't check this, then check the rarity or overall difficulty of the leftover list. 

 

My previous post shows how to deal with this. Any issues of whether two of the exact same games have different trophies are meaningless. If one trophy list is worth more points, that's the one that counts. If they're the same amount of points, does it really matter which one counts? No. 

 

Also, I never said coding this would be easy, it would probably be a pain in the ass. That's not for us to decide though (nothing really is, it isn't our site) We're just debating whether it would be an interesting addition. Honestly I'd be fine if the site auto eliminated the stacks and just showed a number next to your total plat count showing the modified result. You could even have a setting to turn it off if it offends you that much. 

 

Since you commented on the vegetarian example I'll respond and pass it back. You're right, there are multiple different versions of vegetarianism, but that's for them to decide. The moment you say, hey I like meat, you sacrafice your right to weigh in on what/how they decide on the rules. We'll, you could still comment I guess, but who's going to listen to your arguments?

 

It's the same here. There are several people who have pulled in and said "I don't like this idea and here's why" that's totally fine and you've been heard. But now you're trying to throw your ideas of how it can or can't be figured out into the topic. Let the people that like the idea decide how they want to implement the design. It still might not turn out to be feasible, and maybe we can't even come to ab agreement, but at least we don't have people actively working against the idea. 

Yeah. Let's make PSNP an echo chamber where people can't go against whatever you decide is right.

Sounds great!

 

I find it hilarious how most of the people in this thread that are against stacking have stacked Ratchet & Clank, like you. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[Cassylvania]

8 minutes ago, Hemiak said:

You're over complicating the issue. This leaderboard would simply a way to see who had played how many "unique" games. People wouldn't check this, then check the rarity or overall difficulty of the leftover list. 

 

How am I overcomplicating the issue? I'm asking for a definition of the leaderboard that is being suggested. If we can't even define what is meant by a unique game, then how can this leaderboard exist?

 

11 minutes ago, Hemiak said:

Honestly I'd be fine if the site auto eliminated the stacks and just showed a number next to your total plat count showing the modified result. You could even have a setting to turn it off if it offends you that much. 

 

That's just asking for a riot. These aren't cheaters or hackers. These are people who put in the time and effort to earn their platinums, just like you and me. Having a unique games leaderboard just for fun is one thing, but l don't think people are going to respond well to having their total number of platinums "modified."

 

17 minutes ago, Hemiak said:

It's the same here. There are several people who have pulled in and said "I don't like this idea and here's why" that's totally fine and you've been heard. But now you're trying to throw your ideas of how it can or can't be figured out into the topic. Let the people that like the idea decide how they want to implement the design. It still might not turn out to be feasible, and maybe we can't even come to ab agreement, but at least we don't have people actively working against the idea. 

 

When I was growing up, my family had a rule when it came to sharing. If my sister and I wanted a cookie, and there was only one left, one of us was allowed to break the cookie and the other got to choose the piece they wanted. This was fair because we both had an equal say and action in what we wanted. What is not fair is breaking the cookie, taking the bigger piece for yourself, and telling the other side that their opinion doesn't matter. With one exception, I think everybody in this topic who has been against this idea has been very polite in their response, and I think they'd be open to the idea, if it could be implemented in such a way that everybody can agree on. The problem is, as I've stated, that nobody has come forth with a standard definition for a "unique" game.

[Hemiak]

17 minutes ago, madbuk said:

Yeah. Let's make PSNP an echo chamber where people can't go against whatever you decide is right.

Sounds great!

 

I find it hilarious how most of the people in this thread that are against stacking have stacked Ratchet & Clank, like you. Hypocrisy at its finest.

You're being deliberately obtuse on both points and you know it. 

 

I'm not in the slightest against dissenting opinions. However it seems the people against the idea are trying to tell the people for it that we'll never be able to figure it out and clouding the issue. There's a difference between coming in and disagreeing, and coming in and trying to introduce reasons why it wouldn't work. Maybe it won't, I certainly don't know. In fairness I believe that no matter how well thought out this idea ends up it will never actually be put in place, there's simply too many other more important issues that need to be addressed first. So what's the harm in discussing it politely. If you want to talk about the fairest or most effective way to do something like this, by all means go ahead.

 

Where I have an issue is people coming in, saying they hate the idea, and then giving 20 examples of why it's too hard, or complicated, or whatever. And some of these guys have come back multiple times fighting over this. I don't et why people are so threatened by something like this. While we're at it let's start a stacker board, where every game that's done twice(or more) is worth double points. That's fine by me, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. 

 

I find your stance on Ratchet hilarious honestly. I've personally seen you tell people multiple times it's not even close to the same game. The story is completely different, as you mentioned there are whole planets gone, sections such as big Clank missing, and a glut of entirely new/changed contents. I'd say it's probably only 10-20% of the original game, if that. If you want to throw that in my face feel free, I'll happily take 152/153 games and not think twice about it. 

[Hemiak]

4 minutes ago, Cassylvania said:

 

How am I overcomplicating the issue? I'm asking for a definition of the leaderboard that is being suggested. If we can't even define what is meant by a unique game, then how can this leaderboard exist?

 

 

That's just asking for a riot. These aren't cheaters or hackers. These are people who put in the time and effort to earn their platinums, just like you and me. Having a unique games leaderboard just for fun is one thing, but l don't think people are going to respond well to having their total number of platinums "modified."

 

 

When I was growing up, my family had a rule when it came to sharing. If my sister and I wanted a cookie, and there was only one left, one of us was allowed to break the cookie and the other got to choose the piece they wanted. This was fair because we both had an equal say and action in what we wanted. What is not fair is breaking the cookie, taking the bigger piece for yourself, and telling the other side that their opinion doesn't matter. With one exception, I think everybody in this topic who has been against this idea has been very polite in their response, and I think they'd be open to the idea, if it could be implemented in such a way that everybody can agree on. The problem is, as I've stated, that nobody has come forth with a standard definition for a "unique" game.

Your final point first. You don't want the cookie. It's Oatmeal Raisen and you want chocolate chip. So now you're advocating we throw the cookie away. 

We also use that method with our children by the way. Fantastic way to promote fairness. Again, you want to help figure out a way to make it work by all means do so. 

 

I provided a method. If a game has the same name, minus the remaster tag, it counts. Whichever one benefits you more on the board counts to your score. Other games like Dark Souls 2: SOTFS or Guacamelee STCE would need to be coded in. If a version comes out later, has all the original stuff, and extra stuff added in with more trophies, that one counts. 

 

Again, THIS IS NOT A PERMANENT SITE WIDE SOLUTION TO ANYTHING. This is one additional small number or board off to the side. In no way shape or form am I asking for TheYuriG or whoever else to lose 40+ platinums because they're stacks. You do you man. I'm just curious how things would look if stacks weren't a thing. And yes, I realize that if they didn't exist you guys would play other games. 

 

[maxijodi]

On 19.2.2019 at 6:42 PM, TheYuriG said:

I wonder if you people are legit unable to read the NEW in the title. Nothing is going away with this, people will just have a different way to checking their stats, your old rank will continue to exist as it has always been there.

If you care about the idea, post how it can be improved. If you don't care, step away because this doesn't affect you in any shape or form. It's an addition and therefore it can easily be ignored if you don't wish to participate, since it won't affect anyone.

an addition for WHAT??

 

But besides:

Who should do the work to improve this?

Did you ever thought about the efforts doing this and who would (be able or like to) do?

And if yes for what? For which reason? To satisfy yourselfes?

 

Why don't you just do a site which such a leaderboard yourself??

Edited February 21, 2019 by maxijodi

[dmland12]

46 minutes ago, madbuk said:

I find it hilarious how most of the people in this thread that are against stacking have stacked Ratchet & Clank, like you. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

That's just silly.  This suggestion is to make a new leaderboard to see how we'd compare under (slightly) different rules.  You don't have to have a completely stackless profile to think that could be interesting.  There's nothing hypocritical about it at all about finding the idea interesting, regardless of how many stacks a person has.

 

What is strange is that people like you seem to be reading this thread as an attack on stacking and responding as such when it's not.  I'd suggest going back and rereading the posts from the people in favor of this without assuming that they're out to get you.

[Gage]

1 hour ago, KondeBra said:

Right now the leaderboards are pointless since the profiles are not being auto updated.

 

What? Profiles are automatically updated. It says right in the page for a profile when it was last updated and how long until its updated again. 

[TheYuriG]

27 minutes ago, maxijodi said:

an addition for WHAT??

 

But besides:

Who should do the work to improve this?

Did you ever thought about the efforts doing this and who would (be able or like to) do?

And if yes for what? For which reason? To satisfy yourselfes?

 

Why don't you just do a site which such a leaderboard yourself??

An addition to the website.

 

The dev responsible for the website

someone getting paid by the site ads and premium subs, most likely. i assume people getting paid would have pleasing their patrons as a high priority

it's just another statistic. in my case it's more a curiosity thing than anything else. i guess i would be satisfied if one of my 10+ suggestions got accepted, but I don't do any of them for myself, it's just to improve the website

 

If i had the knowledge or the means to, I would. Since i don't, i think asking someone who does have both seems to be a bit fair

 

39 minutes ago, Hemiak said:

This is one additional small number or board off to the side. In no way shape or form am I asking for TheYuriG or whoever else to lose 40+ platinums because they're stacks

I legit wouldn't care. plat count and rankings are just numbers. they aren't my gaming goals at all

[maxijodi]

1 hour ago, TheYuriG said:

An addition to the website.

 

The dev responsible for the website

someone getting paid by the site ads and premium subs, most likely. i assume people getting paid would have pleasing their patrons as a high priority

it's just another statistic. in my case it's more a curiosity thing than anything else. i guess i would be satisfied if one of my 10+ suggestions got accepted, but I don't do any of them for myself, it's just to improve the website

 

If i had the knowledge or the means to, I would. Since i don't, i think asking someone who does have both seems to be a bit fair

 

I legit wouldn't care. plat count and rankings are just numbers. they aren't my gaming goals at all

I think you have no idea how much effort this would be for people running this site  and some of them may be in their free time does while you are playing? Wthout payment`?

[TheYuriG]

Just now, maxijodi said:

I think you have no idea how much effort this would be for people running this site  and some of them may be in their free time does while you are playing? Wthout payment`?

I'm assuming you haven't read through all the posts here since you are saying that, but the stacking system is already in place, it just gotta use that database into a leaderboard where it would give you points based on the max you can get from one of the stacks, in case you have done more than one. It's not that hard to code, would be just harder to generate a different database for that, which would also take more space.

 

I'm also assuming you haven't bothered to read my previous post since you are saying once again "no payment". Let me know if you need to be explained in a different way.

[madbuk]

8 minutes ago, TheYuriG said:

I'm assuming you haven't read through all the posts here since you are saying that, but the stacking system is already in place, it just gotta use that database into a leaderboard where it would give you points based on the max you can get from one of the stacks, in case you have done more than one. It's not that hard to code, would be just harder to generate a different database for that, which would also take more space.

 

I'm also assuming you haven't bothered to read my previous post since you are saying once again "no payment". Let me know if you need to be explained in a different way.

Some of the current games considered 'stacks' require drastically different amounts of work, for the same amount of points. Kingdom Hearts 1, for example. It's much easier on PS4 - 1 minimum playthrough vs 3, can skip most gummi missions, have 5(?) extra hours for the speedrun...

So the system you propose isnt exactly perfect, and Hemiak's previous suggestion of only counting the one with the most points doesn't apply here either because they're both equal in that regard.

[Baker]

I like the idea. As a person that doesn’t stack it would be to nice to see how much ranks I will gain on my country leaderboard. And @madbuk. I really can’t see how Ratchet & Clank would be considered a stack. It would be the same when (if) the FF7 remake comes out and claiming it’s the same as the old time classic ?. But that’s just my opinion.

[TheYuriG]

20 minutes ago, madbuk said:

Some of the current games considered 'stacks' require drastically different amounts of work, for the same amount of points. Kingdom Hearts 1, for example. It's much easier on PS4 - 1 minimum playthrough vs 3, can skip most gummi missions, have 5(?) extra hours for the speedrun...

So the system you propose isnt exactly perfect, and Hemiak's previous suggestion of only counting the one with the most points doesn't apply here either because they're both equal in that regard.

That's ok. Doing either of them would count toward your score the same way, just like doing Race The Sun on ps3/psv gives you as many PSN points as doing on ps4. I think it's a lot more about being a curiosity board than a competitive one. It's more about knowing 'what if' you didn't stack games rather than actually giving any value to the result, That's the way I see it.

[Gommes_]

Great idea! Love stats and leaderboards on this site. Heck give me much more different boards and statistics = boards with only gold trophies, rarities under 30%, only good games etc.

[SwampGas]

100% disagree. People played those games multiple times for multiple awards.

Why would you want to take that away from people that spent the time to earn them?

Examples on my profile alone [PS3 & PS4 Platinums Earned]
   Bioshock 1

   Bioshock 2

   Bioshock Infinite

   Darksiders

   Darksiders 2

   Dead Nation [PS3/Vita]

   Grand Theft Auto 5 [Currently in Progress]

   Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational

   South Park: Stick of Truth

   Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

   The Walking Dead [PS3/PS4/Vita]

   Uncharted

   XCOM: Enemy Unknown

   
People put the time into earning the trophies, why take that away from them?

[KondeBra]

20 hours ago, Gage said:

 

What? Profiles are automatically updated. It says right in the page for a profile when it was last updated and how long until its updated again. 

Only for premium members.

 

For "normal" members, profiles are not been updated for ages. It means that the leaderboard is outdated for months and worst, imprecise.

[Shadiochao]

18 hours ago, SwampGas said:

100% disagree. People played those games multiple times for multiple awards.

Why would you want to take that away from people that spent the time to earn them?

   
People put the time into earning the trophies, why take that away from them?

 

If you think something's being taken away, you've misunderstood the suggestion.

[SNACH2497]

Anti-Stacking is anti-freedom. Why do you hate freedom and democracy?

[TheYuriG]

7 minutes ago, SNACH2497 said:

Anti-Stacking is anti-freedom. Why do you hate freedom and democracy?

so adding leaderboards variety is against freedom?

 

this thread is legit killing my brain cells

[Quink666]

I think this would be a nice addition. Myself i don't care for stacks, only have a few and mostly Telltale games so i would be nice to see how i compete on a leaderboard that doesn't count stacks.