Does the Trophy System Need an Overhaul?

[Chocolat_GiddyUp]

Would be nice if we had trophy progress tracking. I think Xbox has it?

 

For example: if I need to kill 50 trophy whores in a level, the game or the trophy system would track it lol.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Chocolate GiddyUp

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

Yes.

 

I think if they completely get rid of trophies on next gen, a lot of people will end up having more fun. I mean, like now, the vast majority of gamers will just have no idea of trophies or pay them no mind, but those who obsess over the trophies will likely have a lot better of a time without them in the future.

8 minutes ago, Chocolate GiddyUp said:

Would be nice if we had trophy progress tracking.

 

For example: if I need to kill 50 trophy whores in a level, the game or the trophy system would track it lol.

Xbox done got that years ago.

[AJ_Radio]

2 hours ago, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

Yes.

 

I think if they completely get rid of trophies on next gen, a lot of people will end up having more fun. I mean, like now, the vast majority of gamers will just have no idea of trophies or pay them no mind, but those who obsess over the trophies will likely have a lot better of a time without them in the future.

Xbox done got that years ago.

 

Says the guy who quit trophy hunting a long while back.

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

On 8/4/2019 at 6:53 PM, Spaz said:

 

Says the guy who quit trophy hunting a long while back.

Yeah. I do.

 

Know what the last two games I played were? Doom 1 and 2 on Switch (yes, I have them on a million other things, just like everyone else). I finished them both on easy (still got most of the Master Levels admittedly, but the main games), had an absolute blast, and left.

 

I played Doom 1 on 360 a year or two back and clocked the first three episodes on the middle difficulty and then got halfway through the forth and left it for a good while. To get any achievements on that version, you have to beat each episode on at least the third difficulty level. Now, I'm not the worst at these games, but I'm far from the best. I got stuck in the forth episode, put it down for a bit, and forgot about it for a couple of years. I never bothered to play easy mode, and by extension, never bothered to even finish the game, because I refused to let that achievement get away from me (I went back the other day and finished it in like 10 minutes, just with a lot of save scumming). The achievement system there actively fucked with my sense of fun and enjoyment.

 

Sure, it's up to the individual to determine how much the achievements mean to them, blah blah blah, but it's also up to smokers to stop smoking, it's also up to alcoholics to quit drinking, it's not as easy as just saying "Well play on easy then, loser". Take the damn trophies and that away, and the playing habits of a lot of you guys would certainly change, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse in some instances, but it would change the way you play, and if that leads to playing more games in more of the ways you want and not letting some silly lil digital medal dictate the experience, that's pretty bloody good to me.

[AJ_Radio]

55 minutes ago, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

Yeah. I do.

 

Know what the last two games I played were? Doom 1 and 2 on Switch (yes, I have them on a million other things, just like everyone else). I finished them both on easy (still got most of the Master Levels admittedly, but the main games), had an absolute blast, and left.

 

I played Doom 1 on 360 a year or two back and clocked the first three episodes on the middle difficulty and then got halfway through the forth and left it for a good while. To get any achievements on that version, you have to beat each episode on at least the third difficulty level. Now, I'm not the worst at these games, but I'm far from the best. I got stuck in the forth episode, put it down for a bit, and forgot about it for a couple of years. I never bothered to play easy mode, and by extension, never bothered to even finish the game, because I refused to let that achievement get away from me (I went back the other day and finished it in like 10 minutes, just with a lot of save scumming). The achievement system there actively fucked with my sense of fun and enjoyment.

 

Sure, it's up to the individual to determine how much the achievements mean to them, blah blah blah, but it's also up to smokers to stop smoking, it's also up to alcoholics to quit drinking, it's not as easy as just saying "Well play on easy then, loser". Take the damn trophies and that away, and the playing habits of a lot of you guys would certainly change, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse in some instances, but it would change the way you play, and if that leads to playing more games in more of the ways you want and not letting some silly lil digital medal dictate the experience, that's pretty bloody good to me.

 

Is that such a problem?

 

I mean, yes, most people don't care about trophies and that's perfectly fine. I'm the only guy in my family and circle of friends outside the internet who even remotely knows about trophy hunting.

 

But... I never once saw any achievement system actively fuck with my sense of fun and enjoyment as you describe it. I enjoy going for trophies. If that is so much of an issue for some, they can turn trophy notifications off. Pretend trophies don't exist. I think some guys would feel all the better for it if they did that.

 

I'm just baffled as to why you're still here. Obviously you quit trophy hunting a year or two back, and you continue to promote the Switch as being an all around great system that is awesome because there is no achievement system attached to it. Apparently you don't like trophies anymore, so why don't you just admit you don't like them and move on?

 

And as far as people thinking I primarily care about trophies, my history of gaming stems back long before there was any achievement system. I played all the classic Nintendo systems up to the Gamecube and I loved the games they offered. Same with the PlayStation 2. But if all those games were to suddenly show up one day with an achievement system attached to them, I certainly wouldn't go "well this is going to fuck up my enjoyment and appreciation for these titles". That is fucking ridiculous. I would argue that if these games were to be released again, people would go out and buy them and enjoy them just like they did in the old days. Most guys wouldn't even consider them having achievements or trophies, because achievement/trophy hunting as you know makes up a very small minority.

 

At the end of the day, we're talking about something that is subjective. A lot of people don't like them, some people like myself appreciate them especially if they offer a little challenge.

 

If you can't see anything good out of trophies, and most particularly this new Ribbon system that has a lot of people up in arms, then you can just leave.

[solomonluthor]

personally, one change that I would love to see is that if merging of platform trophy lists - for example - games like GTA v and last of us - which you might have played massive chunks on one platform and now cant complete if you play on the other - for example - I have all the single player trophies for last of us on the PS4 and all multiplayer on the PS3 - if I could share the trophy lists it would have been a plat for a game I really loved - but with the dead multiplayer by the time I got to that step and having previously already done the entire grind, I had no motivation to do that again. not necessarily shared saves, but just shared trophy lists. it encourages cross platform play more than having separate trophy lists - which really just helps attract people to EZ plats with many trophy lists. 

1 minute ago, solomonluthor said:

personally, one change that I would love to see is that if merging of platform trophy lists - for example - games like GTA v and last of us - which you might have played massive chunks on one platform and now cant complete if you play on the other - for example - I have all the single player trophies for last of us on the PS4 and all multiplayer on the PS3 - if I could share the trophy lists it would have been a plat for a game I really loved - but with the dead multiplayer by the time I got to that step and having previously already done the entire grind, I had no motivation to do that again. not necessarily shared saves, but just shared trophy lists. it encourages cross platform play more than having separate trophy lists - which really just helps attract people to EZ plats with many trophy lists. 

this would be something which wil increasingly become an issue as we arrive at the next generation and the end of this gen - I can already dread, having to play cyberpunk 2077 twice on what will perhaps be at least a 150 hour plat if I want plats onboth. 

[AJ_Radio]

46 minutes ago, solomonluthor said:

personally, one change that I would love to see is that if merging of platform trophy lists - for example - games like GTA v and last of us - which you might have played massive chunks on one platform and now cant complete if you play on the other - for example - I have all the single player trophies for last of us on the PS4 and all multiplayer on the PS3 - if I could share the trophy lists it would have been a plat for a game I really loved - but with the dead multiplayer by the time I got to that step and having previously already done the entire grind, I had no motivation to do that again. not necessarily shared saves, but just shared trophy lists. it encourages cross platform play more than having separate trophy lists - which really just helps attract people to EZ plats with many trophy lists.

 

It's too late for that. The lists should stay as they are because any tampering is just going to upset the people who have gotten the trophies and the platinum.

 

The change I would implement is to require players to beat the game to get the platinum. Doesn't matter what difficulty it is.

 

Ratalaika Games just shoves out games with 10 - 11 gold trophies and a platinum. You have to play maybe 10 - 20 percent of the game to get the platinum trophy. That just shows Sony's lack of quality control which has gone on for quite a while now.

 

I understand that they publish the games, but would it be that much to ask to make a trophy list that has you beating the game? Isn't that the point of playing a lot of games in the first place?

[solomonluthor]

7 minutes ago, Spaz said:

 

It's too late for that. The lists should stay as they are because any tampering is just going to upset the people who have gotten the trophies and the platinum.

 

The change I would implement is to require players to beat the game to get the platinum. Doesn't matter what difficulty it is.

 

Ratalaika Games just shoves out games with 10 - 11 gold trophies and a platinum. You have to play maybe 10 - 20 percent of the game to get the platinum trophy. That just shows Sony's lack of quality control which has gone on for quite a while now.

 

I understand that they publish the games, but would it be that much to ask to make a trophy list that has you beating the game? Isn't that the point of playing a lot of games in the first place?

 

having worked as a producer on an indie game before (KLAUS if youre wondering - and before you ask we had a pretty difficult trophy list) the trophy list is something that Sony does not put too many requirements, and leave it open to the developer. The only requirement, is a check for all of them popping and meting the conditions under their TRCs. Also I think Sony understand that some game might be catering specific to trophy whores, and happily let them operate, as it helps satisfy a decent customer base considering the price fo these games. 

 

also, i didnt mean to change it retroactively, but going forward for the next generation. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by solomonluthor
additional response

[Matto_lsi]

I can appreciate the effort you put into this post, but your idea is based on your understanding of how the system works, which happens to be false.  Developers create their trophy lists.  When they submit the game to Sony, the only thing that determines if the game gets a small (315 point, or so) or large (1250 point or so, with a platinum) trophy list is the scope.  If the developer lists the game as small scope on the paperwork, it gets the former.  If they designate it as large scope, it gets the latter.  And what determines scope?  Well, there's some recommendations by Sony, including the 'assumed' play time for the game, but at the end of the day none of that matters.  Perhaps in the past Sony cared more and had a better system in place, but today getting your game approved with a full trophy list is as simple as checking the 'large scope' box on the paperwork.  I worked in the game industry for many years, and never once did Sony actually question these decisions.  The people I worked with did, and in many cases made the incorrect decision (imo), but Sony never failed us or called us out on this designation.  Not once.  So when you see a game that takes 30 minutes to platinum with a full trophy list and wonder why, now you know.  And when you're equally confused by a game that takes 5, 10, maybe even 15 hours to finish only having a small trophy list, don't be.  The developer, in good faith, didn't think their game deserved a large scope designation, and therefore did not get a plat.  Many might disagree, but most developers don't go into game design to pad trophy lists.  The paperwork, especially for small or indie studios, is the most frustrating part and they try to get it out of the way as quickly as they can.  If you're new to game development, you probably don't even realize there are potential repercussions from how you do the paperwork.  And since all submission docs are provided when you submit the game (with minor exceptions), devs rarely waste any more time than is necessary getting it out the door.

 

Now, with all that said, the trophy system itself is fine and over-complicating it will just make things worse.  The only change I would like to see made is Sony taking a little more responsibility and updating their process to make everything easier for the devs/pubs, especially the small and indie ones.  And incorporating some finite guidelines, especially for the scope of a project, and then sticking to it during the submissions process.

[AJ_Radio]

1 minute ago, Matto_lsi said:

Now, with all that said, the trophy system itself is fine and over-complicating it will just make things worse.  The only change I would like to see made is Sony taking a little more responsibility and updating their process to make everything easier for the devs/pubs, especially the small and indie ones.  And incorporating some finite guidelines, especially for the scope of a project, and then sticking to it during the submissions process.

 

I'm just curious when did you work for Sony?

 

Because I know back in 2008 - 2011 everything seemed to have a difficulty related trophy attached to the game. Indie games were very rarely if at all, given any platinum. Trine is the only game I can think of that is at least 10 years old and has a platinum. Everything else including the game I recently finished (Mega Man 10) was given 285 points to 315 points. That was typical of small indie games. Platinums were generally exclusive to AAA games, with anywhere from 1140 points to 1230 points, which is the maximum a base game can have.

 

A lot of these 10 - 11 gold trophies with a platinum are just made as quickly as possible. There's at least anywhere from three to six stacks for these games. So if you're like me who has a bunch of region accounts you can stack this stuff six times. People noticed this and called out against it. I primarily see it as a numbers game, catering to those who have an addiction to trophies much like those who are addicted to gambling.

 

There's no standard. I think Sony picked up on trophies because they wanted to compete with the Xbox 360, which was at the time wildly popular and was known for it's achievement system. I was an achievement hunter but quit around the time of the Xbox One fiasco.

 

The one credit I can give Sony is trophies still hold a bit of substance. Xbox Achievements mean nothing anymore and you can easily get a program to automatically get Steam Achievements for you. Steam doesn't give a shit how many people abuse achievements. Here on PSNProfiles the leaderboards filter out the cheaters from the legit players. At least to an extent, because I'm convinced the top guys are team based accounts who play no less than 10 - 15 hours a day.

 

Just having the numbers doesn't mean shit. It's the individual trophies and the games that matter. Because with the amount of shit out there that can be played and finished, having over 300 platinum trophies and over 10,000 trophies doesn't mean much of anything. It may have back in 2009 - 2013 because there was a little bit of a standard. Now, just having the numbers isn't enough.

[solomonluthor]

19 minutes ago, Matto_lsi said:

I can appreciate the effort you put into this post, but your idea is based on your understanding of how the system works, which happens to be false.  Developers create their trophy lists.  When they submit the game to Sony, the only thing that determines if the game gets a small (315 point, or so) or large (1250 point or so, with a platinum) trophy list is the scope.  If the developer lists the game as small scope on the paperwork, it gets the former.  If they designate it as large scope, it gets the latter.  And what determines scope?  Well, there's some recommendations by Sony, including the 'assumed' play time for the game, but at the end of the day none of that matters.  Perhaps in the past Sony cared more and had a better system in place, but today getting your game approved with a full trophy list is as simple as checking the 'large scope' box on the paperwork.  I worked in the game industry for many years, and never once did Sony actually question these decisions.  The people I worked with did, and in many cases made the incorrect decision (imo), but Sony never failed us or called us out on this designation.  Not once.  So when you see a game that takes 30 minutes to platinum with a full trophy list and wonder why, now you know.  And when you're equally confused by a game that takes 5, 10, maybe even 15 hours to finish only having a small trophy list, don't be.  The developer, in good faith, didn't think their game deserved a large scope designation, and therefore did not get a plat.  Many might disagree, but most developers don't go into game design to pad trophy lists.  The paperwork, especially for small or indie studios, is the most frustrating part and they try to get it out of the way as quickly as they can.  If you're new to game development, you probably don't even realize there are potential repercussions from how you do the paperwork.  And since all submission docs are provided when you submit the game (with minor exceptions), devs rarely waste any more time than is necessary getting it out the door.

 

Now, with all that said, the trophy system itself is fine and over-complicating it will just make things worse.  The only change I would like to see made is Sony taking a little more responsibility and updating their process to make everything easier for the devs/pubs, especially the small and indie ones.  And incorporating some finite guidelines, especially for the scope of a project, and then sticking to it during the submissions process.

 

completely agree with this. At the end of the day a good and bad trophy list speaks of the developer rather than of the platform. A great developer will come up with a fun, innovative and rewarding trophy list, while others will just try and get it out fo the way asap. props to Sony for supporting devs, and allowing them to play in the space. 

[freddie1989]

I am happy with the system the way it is in the most part.

 

The only thing I think needs looking at is the stacking of the same game multiple times. It is just ludicrous, just one list per game and if that isn't doable then access to only one trophy list per game.

[Super-Fly Spider-Guy]

5 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

Is that such a problem?

 

I mean, yes, most people don't care about trophies and that's perfectly fine. I'm the only guy in my family and circle of friends outside the internet who even remotely knows about trophy hunting.

 

But... I never once saw any achievement system actively fuck with my sense of fun and enjoyment as you describe it. I enjoy going for trophies. If that is so much of an issue for some, they can turn trophy notifications off. Pretend trophies don't exist. I think some guys would feel all the better for it if they did that.

 

I'm just baffled as to why you're still here. Obviously you quit trophy hunting a year or two back, and you continue to promote the Switch as being an all around great system that is awesome because there is no achievement system attached to it. Apparently you don't like trophies anymore, so why don't you just admit you don't like them and move on?

 

And as far as people thinking I primarily care about trophies, my history of gaming stems back long before there was any achievement system. I played all the classic Nintendo systems up to the Gamecube and I loved the games they offered. Same with the PlayStation 2. But if all those games were to suddenly show up one day with an achievement system attached to them, I certainly wouldn't go "well this is going to fuck up my enjoyment and appreciation for these titles". That is fucking ridiculous. I would argue that if these games were to be released again, people would go out and buy them and enjoy them just like they did in the old days. Most guys wouldn't even consider them having achievements or trophies, because achievement/trophy hunting as you know makes up a very small minority.

 

At the end of the day, we're talking about something that is subjective. A lot of people don't like them, some people like myself appreciate them especially if they offer a little challenge.

 

If you can't see anything good out of trophies, and most particularly this new Ribbon system that has a lot of people up in arms, then you can just leave.

It's a forum, on a gaming website. That's fair game. Heh, game.

 

I mean, first off, I barely pop up lately and haven't for a good while until recently, on account of being in a Whatsapp group with the two or three people on here I actually talked to for more than five minutes who had more than five brain cells (shout out to @The Shopkeeper and @MosesRockefeller, sorry I keep upgrading phones and shit, Imma shoot you a message in like two weeks when I have everything sorted), because there's too many people like you who rip into everything everyone says that they don't agree with. Which, admittedly I used to do a lot too, and still do sometimes, but like, you're a pretty constant doer of these things. If you're not having fun, then you can just leave.

 

Second, it is an open forum on the internet. Anyone can and will pop up and that's how it's designed to be, if you have a problem with someone disagreeing with you, then *you* can just leave. Sorry to break the hive mind you think you've got going on here, but a boatload of boatloads of people don't give a shit about trophies, and there's plenty of them on this site. 

 

Third, I usually just hang out in the Switch thread or the anything and everything else section, so it's not like I'm *usually* in your face about the Switch being superior to PS4, and again, see point 2, it's an internet forum, people will say shit. It happens funnily enough. If you don't like someone talking about the Switch in the Switch section, then uh, you can just leave. Also bonus points, PSNP having a Switch section is pretty obvious proof that you can pop up on here and talk about shit, while not giving a single fuck about trophies.

 

Anyway. End of the day, I don't understand why you'd be baffled as to my being here. Whenever I would pop up, I wasn't usually sitting there sucking on that trophy dick, I was usually bopping about doing what you do in a forum, talking about shit. But more than anything, "does the trophy system need an overhaul" is a question, and it's a question open to everyone at that, so I threw in my opinion. I think it's a pretty fair opinion that a lot of people share, just as there's a lot of people who share yours, and there's nothing wrong with either opinion, it's just quite funny that you should be the person to have a problem with that. Always having a go at something, it's crazy, it's almost like you're the one not having fun, maybe you should try turning off trophies, but do remember kiddies, if you're not having fun,

 

Then you can just leave.

 

...also, while I'm having my first long post in a good while, @MosesRockefeller and @The Shopkeeper, I don't like Last Jedi. I am surrounded by people who hate it and I can only see people everywhere else hating it too. It made less money than the last one and the toys aren't selling. You guys can have your reasons you believe that is and I can not believe them and that's fine. But holy shit, I am sorry for arguing about it so much. Y'all are good dudes and I'm not one for just letting something go if it annoys you, like I know my blind dislike of the movie surely annoys you guys as much as your blind love of it annoys me, but we're not going to change either of our minds and it's just a movie. Since I don't have access to Whatsapp at the moment and I'm already dragging it off topic and rambling, now seems as good a spot as any to drop this. Plus it's been so long I don't have any warning points anymore and I'm kinda missing them. Point is anyway, I'm pretty fucking keen for Episode 9 and bought the kiddo a Rey costume the other day and she's so fucking cute in it holy shit, I just want my girl Rey and my boi Finn to kick some ass and I'll be happy. Anyway, I'm sorry for arguing so much about it. I 100% believe what I've said and ain't sorry for that, but I'm sorry for going on about it so much that it's one of like three things I remember from the chat. 

 

Also, I low key also just put it here to waste Spaz's time a bit more to make up for his wasting of mine.

[Matto_lsi]

14 hours ago, Spaz said:

 

I'm just curious when did you work for Sony?

 

Because I know back in 2008 - 2011 everything seemed to have a difficulty related trophy attached to the game. Indie games were very rarely if at all, given any platinum. Trine is the only game I can think of that is at least 10 years old and has a platinum. Everything else including the game I recently finished (Mega Man 10) was given 285 points to 315 points. That was typical of small indie games. Platinums were generally exclusive to AAA games, with anywhere from 1140 points to 1230 points, which is the maximum a base game can have.

 

A lot of these 10 - 11 gold trophies with a platinum are just made as quickly as possible. There's at least anywhere from three to six stacks for these games. So if you're like me who has a bunch of region accounts you can stack this stuff six times. People noticed this and called out against it. I primarily see it as a numbers game, catering to those who have an addiction to trophies much like those who are addicted to gambling.

 

There's no standard. I think Sony picked up on trophies because they wanted to compete with the Xbox 360, which was at the time wildly popular and was known for it's achievement system. I was an achievement hunter but quit around the time of the Xbox One fiasco.

 

The one credit I can give Sony is trophies still hold a bit of substance. Xbox Achievements mean nothing anymore and you can easily get a program to automatically get Steam Achievements for you. Steam doesn't give a shit how many people abuse achievements. Here on PSNProfiles the leaderboards filter out the cheaters from the legit players. At least to an extent, because I'm convinced the top guys are team based accounts who play no less than 10 - 15 hours a day.

 

Just having the numbers doesn't mean shit. It's the individual trophies and the games that matter. Because with the amount of shit out there that can be played and finished, having over 300 platinum trophies and over 10,000 trophies doesn't mean much of anything. It may have back in 2009 - 2013 because there was a little bit of a standard. Now, just having the numbers isn't enough.

 

I never said I worked for Sony.  I have worked for devs and pubs in the industry and worked with Sony reps regarding submissions.  I've worked directly with Sony employees on various occasions, including shows like E3 where I worked directly out of the Sony booth, but Sony was not my employer.  Again, I'd like to clarify that Sony is not giving games anything.  There were always rough guidelines to follow when a developer had to classify their game.  Honesty and integrity probably played a bigger role than anything, and Sony probably paid closer attention to each submission.  Back in 2012-2013 one of our contacts at Sony made it clear that they wanted to expand their library quickly.  They gave us and other devs/pubs massive incentives to release content on the Vita.  That was probably the catalyst for some of the relaxed oversight when it came to game classifications, which again, are done by the dev/pub.  Sony has oversight over the submissions process, but my guess is their lack of caring is more so based in greed than anything else.  The more games they can sell - and take a cut from - the quicker the submissions turnaround.  I can't speak for all the shitty games with platinums being released, but I know a lot of practices that are common today were fought tooth and nail by Sony about 10 years ago.  Today they barely even notice.  So when you get a game with a 30 min plat or broken trophies on launch, that's because of the devs, but it was allowed through because Sony isn't paying any attention anymore.  It's their FQA team that is supposed to flag those things, and often they do, but then the dev just asks for a waiver and leans on their account manager, and the game is passed through anyway.  Sometimes all Sony asks for is a good faith promise that they'll fix it in the future.  In the terms of the easy plat, they couldn't care less.  I have a lot of friends, many I've worked with at private studios, who in the past worked for Sony FQA and they were shocked by what was allowed to pass.  They also confirmed that it wasn't always that way, but over time things changed for the worse.  Again, the only thing that determines the size of the trophy list (and whether or not it has a Plat) is the part of the submissions paperwork that requires the game's classification as a small scope or large scope game.  In the past Sony would push back if the scope selected didn't mesh with the length and quality of the game.  Today, I don't think they even verify this anymore.  I know for a fact, from submissions I worked on, this aspect never even came up.  The very short time they spent with our games mostly involved menu testing, DLC integration, and making sure trophies popped by acquiring just one.... ONE.  When I first started in the industry, they checked every single trophy.  There was even a situation once where their FQA couldn't fulfill the requirements of a trophy, so my exec producer took a video of me unlocking it and sent that to them as verification.  That was about 10 years ago now.  Today, if they even check trophy unlocks, they often allow the dev to submit save files (which are usually created in a test environment, not organically).  Imagine the myriad of ways that can go wrong.  In regards to trophy stacks, keep in mind that even though it's 2019, Sony is not just Sony.  There's Sony North America, Sony Europe, Sony Japan, Sony Korea.... and the list goes on.  On top of that, different regions have different submission processes, because - and you'll love this - they actually use different software suites for submissions.  So the process for submitting a game and DLC in NA is different than in EU.  I know this was something that Sony acknowledged as an issue, but I'm not sure if they've rectified it over the last few years (I no longer work with them in any capacity now).  So with that in mind, imagine submitting a game to each region with a different trophy list.  Each submission is seen by different people and wouldn't even be apparent that there's separate trophy lists per region.  And even if it was noticed, at this point in time I'm sure Sony wouldn't even care, as long as everything functioned correctly.  From their perspective, they can sell the same game to the same person 3-6 times, instead of just once.  Win-win for them.

 

So anyway, wall of text aside, I agree that trophies, including a number of platinums, just don't carry the same weight anymore.  At the end of the day, it's up to Sony to implement stricter restrictions for the submissions process, but also to actually care when evaluating each submission to ensure the dev/pub is following the rules.  Currently there are no rules, only loose guidelines that no one is being forced to follow.  If Sony changes that, it'll change the attitudes and antics of the devs/pubs just trying to make a quick buck.

[AJ_Radio]

21 hours ago, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

It's a forum, on a gaming website. That's fair game. Heh, game.

 

I mean, first off, I barely pop up lately and haven't for a good while until recently, on account of being in a Whatsapp group with the two or three people on here I actually talked to for more than five minutes who had more than five brain cells (shout out to @The Shopkeeper and @MosesRockefeller, sorry I keep upgrading phones and shit, Imma shoot you a message in like two weeks when I have everything sorted), because there's too many people like you who rip into everything everyone says that they don't agree with. Which, admittedly I used to do a lot too, and still do sometimes, but like, you're a pretty constant doer of these things. If you're not having fun, then you can just leave.

 

Second, it is an open forum on the internet. Anyone can and will pop up and that's how it's designed to be, if you have a problem with someone disagreeing with you, then *you* can just leave. Sorry to break the hive mind you think you've got going on here, but a boatload of boatloads of people don't give a shit about trophies, and there's plenty of them on this site. 

 

Third, I usually just hang out in the Switch thread or the anything and everything else section, so it's not like I'm *usually* in your face about the Switch being superior to PS4, and again, see point 2, it's an internet forum, people will say shit. It happens funnily enough. If you don't like someone talking about the Switch in the Switch section, then uh, you can just leave. Also bonus points, PSNP having a Switch section is pretty obvious proof that you can pop up on here and talk about shit, while not giving a single fuck about trophies.

 

Anyway. End of the day, I don't understand why you'd be baffled as to my being here. Whenever I would pop up, I wasn't usually sitting there sucking on that trophy dick, I was usually bopping about doing what you do in a forum, talking about shit. But more than anything, "does the trophy system need an overhaul" is a question, and it's a question open to everyone at that, so I threw in my opinion. I think it's a pretty fair opinion that a lot of people share, just as there's a lot of people who share yours, and there's nothing wrong with either opinion, it's just quite funny that you should be the person to have a problem with that. Always having a go at something, it's crazy, it's almost like you're the one not having fun, maybe you should try turning off trophies, but do remember kiddies, if you're not having fun,

 

My problem is when someone gets triggered because they respond to something that they've lost interest in years ago.

 

Yes I bitch a lot but that is what most people here come to expect off of me. Those who have a problem with that? I block them.

 

This is first of all, a trophy hunting website much like PST.org. Obviously people here care about their completion rates and their trophies. I'm no different. But here you just come across as being a guy who didn't care in the first place. Next gen consoles dropping any kind of trophy and achievement system? The Switch already does that, which I'm sure you're having a lot of fun with the games that it offers.

 

So obviously I wanted to share my piece on trophies. I went as far as to mention that the leaderboards mean jack shit and your ranking means nothing. In all honesty, rankings don't mean shit unless you're one of the top guys and if you are then I seriously have to question just how you go about your day to day life. I got attacked by guys who felt I was taking the whole thing too far when I simply just wanted to make a quick opinion on rankings and speed running a game just to be one of the fastest achievers for said game.

 

But there's no point bitching at you. I used to think anyone who joined PSNProfiles or PST.org would get at least some sort of enjoyment or show some care for trophies and the system in general. Apparently not.

 

The day I stop caring about trophies, I leave this website. Yeah, it's fun to poke around in the Off Topic section and see what computer specs other people have, but I never saw much value out of those subforums. I don't have a Switch and there's not much I want apart from Mario Kart 8 and the newest Smash Bros game. Always a treat to hook up with friends and play Smash Bros.

 

21 hours ago, Super-Fly Spider-Guy said:

Then you can just leave.

 

...also, while I'm having my first long post in a good while, @MosesRockefeller and @The Shopkeeper, I don't like Last Jedi. I am surrounded by people who hate it and I can only see people everywhere else hating it too. It made less money than the last one and the toys aren't selling. You guys can have your reasons you believe that is and I can not believe them and that's fine. But holy shit, I am sorry for arguing about it so much. Y'all are good dudes and I'm not one for just letting something go if it annoys you, like I know my blind dislike of the movie surely annoys you guys as much as your blind love of it annoys me, but we're not going to change either of our minds and it's just a movie. Since I don't have access to Whatsapp at the moment and I'm already dragging it off topic and rambling, now seems as good a spot as any to drop this. Plus it's been so long I don't have any warning points anymore and I'm kinda missing them. Point is anyway, I'm pretty fucking keen for Episode 9 and bought the kiddo a Rey costume the other day and she's so fucking cute in it holy shit, I just want my girl Rey and my boi Finn to kick some ass and I'll be happy. Anyway, I'm sorry for arguing so much about it. I 100% believe what I've said and ain't sorry for that, but I'm sorry for going on about it so much that it's one of like three things I remember from the chat. 

 

Also, I low key also just put it here to waste Spaz's time a bit more to make up for his wasting of mine.

 

I gave up Star Wars a decade ago.

 

I enjoyed the films that came out in 1999 and post 2000 but afterwards the franchise just got more and more stupid. The films cater to a new generation of moviegoers.

 

Star Wars along with America's self indulgence in cranking out superhero movies gives me no reason to visit a movie theater. All overproduction, saturated crap.

10 hours ago, Matto_lsi said:

 

I never said I worked for Sony.  I have worked for devs and pubs in the industry and worked with Sony reps regarding submissions.  I've worked directly with Sony employees on various occasions, including shows like E3 where I worked directly out of the Sony booth, but Sony was not my employer.  Again, I'd like to clarify that Sony is not giving games anything.  There were always rough guidelines to follow when a developer had to classify their game.  Honesty and integrity probably played a bigger role than anything, and Sony probably paid closer attention to each submission.  Back in 2012-2013 one of our contacts at Sony made it clear that they wanted to expand their library quickly.  They gave us and other devs/pubs massive incentives to release content on the Vita.  That was probably the catalyst for some of the relaxed oversight when it came to game classifications, which again, are done by the dev/pub.  Sony has oversight over the submissions process, but my guess is their lack of caring is more so based in greed than anything else.  The more games they can sell - and take a cut from - the quicker the submissions turnaround.  I can't speak for all the shitty games with platinums being released, but I know a lot of practices that are common today were fought tooth and nail by Sony about 10 years ago.  Today they barely even notice.  So when you get a game with a 30 min plat or broken trophies on launch, that's because of the devs, but it was allowed through because Sony isn't paying any attention anymore.  It's their FQA team that is supposed to flag those things, and often they do, but then the dev just asks for a waiver and leans on their account manager, and the game is passed through anyway.  Sometimes all Sony asks for is a good faith promise that they'll fix it in the future.  In the terms of the easy plat, they couldn't care less.  I have a lot of friends, many I've worked with at private studios, who in the past worked for Sony FQA and they were shocked by what was allowed to pass.  They also confirmed that it wasn't always that way, but over time things changed for the worse.  Again, the only thing that determines the size of the trophy list (and whether or not it has a Plat) is the part of the submissions paperwork that requires the game's classification as a small scope or large scope game.  In the past Sony would push back if the scope selected didn't mesh with the length and quality of the game.  Today, I don't think they even verify this anymore.  I know for a fact, from submissions I worked on, this aspect never even came up.  The very short time they spent with our games mostly involved menu testing, DLC integration, and making sure trophies popped by acquiring just one.... ONE.  When I first started in the industry, they checked every single trophy.  There was even a situation once where their FQA couldn't fulfill the requirements of a trophy, so my exec producer took a video of me unlocking it and sent that to them as verification.  That was about 10 years ago now.  Today, if they even check trophy unlocks, they often allow the dev to submit save files (which are usually created in a test environment, not organically).  Imagine the myriad of ways that can go wrong.  In regards to trophy stacks, keep in mind that even though it's 2019, Sony is not just Sony.  There's Sony North America, Sony Europe, Sony Japan, Sony Korea.... and the list goes on.  On top of that, different regions have different submission processes, because - and you'll love this - they actually use different software suites for submissions.  So the process for submitting a game and DLC in NA is different than in EU.  I know this was something that Sony acknowledged as an issue, but I'm not sure if they've rectified it over the last few years (I no longer work with them in any capacity now).  So with that in mind, imagine submitting a game to each region with a different trophy list.  Each submission is seen by different people and wouldn't even be apparent that there's separate trophy lists per region.  And even if it was noticed, at this point in time I'm sure Sony wouldn't even care, as long as everything functioned correctly.  From their perspective, they can sell the same game to the same person 3-6 times, instead of just once.  Win-win for them.

 

So anyway, wall of text aside, I agree that trophies, including a number of platinums, just don't carry the same weight anymore.  At the end of the day, it's up to Sony to implement stricter restrictions for the submissions process, but also to actually care when evaluating each submission to ensure the dev/pub is following the rules.  Currently there are no rules, only loose guidelines that no one is being forced to follow.  If Sony changes that, it'll change the attitudes and antics of the devs/pubs just trying to make a quick buck.

 

I don't want the system to fall into the lines of Steam where nobody gives a fuck about any achievement. Xbox Achievements have fallen from their pedestal and getting achievements now is basically "who fucking cares at this point".

 

Then again, I'm thinking of quitting around 12,000 - 15,000 trophies because they're not giving me the satisfaction they did four years ago. There are millions of hobbies out there, but some people on here act as if there's nothing else but trophy hunting. Just look at the top leaderboards.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Spaz

[ZenRhino]

I was an Xbox achievement hunter for years, and what attracted me initially to the PS4 was better games and the Platinum trophy. 

 

It is incredibly rewarding to get a final trophy for the base game, and I feel I can then move on without worrying about dlc, unless I love the game. With Xbox I could have got 1000/1000 for the base game, but after the dlc it could read something like 1250/1750 and no-one would have any clue if I beat the base game.

 

On the downside  having been around for a few months now, it is kind of alarming to see the regions stacks on games. Xbox doesn't have that for the most part although they are starting get more stacks for Win10 games, esp after the release of GamePass for PC.

 

I'm not suggesting Sony remove the existing stacks, that would be unfair on those that spent time and money on them. But I would be all for Sony announcing an end to future stacks with the PS5.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by ZenRhino

[AJ_Radio]

36 minutes ago, ZenRhino said:

I was an Xbox achievement hunter for years, and what attracted me initially to the PS4 was better games and the Platinum trophy. 

 

It is incredibly rewarding to get a final trophy for the base game, and I feel I can then move on without worrying about dlc, unless I love the game. With Xbox I could have got 1000/1000 for the base game, but after the dlc it could read something like 1250/1750 and no-one would have any clue if I beat the base game.

 

On the downside  having been around for a few months now, it is kind of alarming to see the regions stacks on games. Xbox doesn't have that for the most part although they are starting get more stacks for Win10 games, esp after the release of GamePass for PC.

 

I'm not suggesting Sony remove the existing stacks, that would be unfair on those that spent time and money on them. But I would be all for Sony announcing an end to future stacks with the PS5.

 

 

End the shameless remasters. They're pointless and just serve as a way to rebuy your shit again.

 

I just want backwards compatibility on the PS5.

[Matto_lsi]

On 8/7/2019 at 1:33 AM, Spaz said:

I don't want the system to fall into the lines of Steam where nobody gives a fuck about any achievement. Xbox Achievements have fallen from their pedestal and getting achievements now is basically "who fucking cares at this point".

 

I don't want them to either.  I just don't think changing them and making them overly complicated will help matters.  Devs especially will go out of their way to find easy shortcuts if Sony implements a plan like the OP suggested, and they'll just lose more of their 'value'.  That's why I'm saying the best solution is for Sony to step up and implement stricter restrictions, or adhere to the ones they used to in the past.  That would force devs to make quality trophy lists as their game would fail submission otherwise, and re-subs can get pricey.  It would also help eliminate 'cheap' plats, as they'd be forced into the 'arcade' category of 315 or so points and denied a plat entirely.

[AJ_Radio]

On 8/8/2019 at 10:45 AM, Matto_lsi said:

 

I don't want them to either.  I just don't think changing them and making them overly complicated will help matters.  Devs especially will go out of their way to find easy shortcuts if Sony implements a plan like the OP suggested, and they'll just lose more of their 'value'.  That's why I'm saying the best solution is for Sony to step up and implement stricter restrictions, or adhere to the ones they used to in the past.  That would force devs to make quality trophy lists as their game would fail submission otherwise, and re-subs can get pricey.  It would also help eliminate 'cheap' plats, as they'd be forced into the 'arcade' category of 315 or so points and denied a plat entirely.

 

I think all the Ratalalika Games should of been 285 - 315 points. Or, had they’ve had a decent list, make you beat the games and experience all they’ve had to offer. 

 

Unfortunately that’s not the case. 

[Vadrael]

Given the fact that it was PSNP that set the standard for todays trophy system Sony uses, its clear we could change it.

My suggestion is that that stacked games will all count as one Finished game, 1 Platinum for 10x Soundshape or whatsoever.

I know that many would be really pissed if somethin like that would happend but from my point of view it takes the fun in gaming and supports trophy whore games.

 

Hakoom is best example for a gamer who lost his soul to the Numbers. we as community should enforce fun in gaming first and trophies second, so if we remove the whole Numbers game here on PSNP and make only one version of a game count then im sure it would have a positive effect in gaming and financial aspects.

Maybe once again sony will notice a trend and steal it from here.

[Arin1979]

" fun in gaming first and trophies second " but " stacked games will all count as one Finished game"

If the important thing is to have fun, what else gives you that people take out the platinum from several lists of the same game?

"positive effect in gaming and financial aspects " really?

[Beliar4]

Rarity change overtime, with your system you could wake up some day with your profile lvl decresed.

[Vadrael]

9 hours ago, Arin1979 said:

" fun in gaming first and trophies second " but " stacked games will all count as one Finished game"

If the important thing is to have fun, what else gives you that people take out the platinum from several lists of the same game?

"positive effect in gaming and financial aspects " really?

 

i dont say that the Platinums should be taken away and more like that they shouldnt count on the leaderboards and you can not tell me that people having fun spending money on 10 versions of the same game the dont enjoy after finishing the firsh time. But its a matter in opinion so i certainly wont argue with people whos OCD got the better of them without even realizing how it hurts Gaming.

 

PS: it talk about people in gerneral and not you in person just to avoid misunderstandings.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Vadrael

[Hakoom]

14 hours ago, Vadrael said:

Given the fact that it was PSNP that set the standard for todays trophy system Sony uses, its clear we could change it.

My suggestion is that that stacked games will all count as one Finished game, 1 Platinum for 10x Soundshape or whatsoever.

I know that many would be really pissed if somethin like that would happend but from my point of view it takes the fun in gaming and supports trophy whore games.

 

Hakoom is best example for a gamer who lost his soul to the Numbers. we as community should enforce fun in gaming first and trophies second, so if we remove the whole Numbers game here on PSNP and make only one version of a game count then im sure it would have a positive effect in gaming and financial aspects.

Maybe once again sony will notice a trend and steal it from here.

 

il be the 1st happy trophy hunter if that happens

no stacks is a win situation for all of us

the only thing that would upset me is my milestones would be ruined.. like my planning of making my 100th 1000th plat a game of my choice will be destroyed 

[hishomie1]

I understand what you're saying. I might be repeating other folks in this post but I do believe that 100% games should just have a Platinum, hell Brawlhalla has a Platinum I'm pretty sure every game can have one. I'd also do away with the "Sound Shapes" type plats. Just share the trophies with every system and not separate them. Same philosophy with regions.

Edited August 12, 2019 by hishomie1