FFVIII Censorship

[Conor]

Funny thing is if you actually play the game rather than just knee-jerk react to a blog post, you find that Shiva, Edea and Ultimecia have no changes whatsoever. So yeah, the "censorship" angle here is as bullcrap as it was for Tifa in the FF7 Remake as far as I am concerned. 

[MyNameIs_Rainman]

13 minutes ago, Stan Lee said:

Funny thing is if you actually play the game rather than just knee-jerk react to a blog post, you find that Shiva, Edea and Ultimecia have no changes whatsoever. So yeah, the "censorship" angle here is as bullcrap as it was for Tifa in the FF7 Remake as far as I am concerned. 

 

I was thinking the same thing. If it was truly an issue about censorship, Shiva would probably be the first to get the treatment, as she has little to no ice covering her parts in pretty much every FF iteration. I think for Siren it was just more of a design interpretation choice being made, as they maybe felt given the current climate it would be more tasteful...still..then why not Shiva, or Edea, Ultimecia...etc? And if that's the case what about the wardrobe choices of characters in recent games like Cindy from XV? It just doesn't add up and its too erratic to pin it down on just censorship.

[MMDE]

Eh, I'll wait until a serious price drop. Still got the original game, and I can just upscale a lot of stuff in emulator etc. Also, this game probably comes with all the usual new cheats they add, making the game even more broken, and it probably doesn't disable trophies either. yawn It's why I own FF9 on PS4, one of my favorite games of all time, but haven't played it  yet. It would have been so cool if you were forced to get the Excalibur II legitimately.

Edited September 7, 2019 by MMDE

[yellowwindow7]

before someone throw the blame to Sony.

 

this is all made by Square Enix, the Switch, XBONE and even the PC version is also got these redesign or censorship if you wanna call it that, though on PC the modding community managed to alter the looks back to the original ps1 looks.

[Lance_87]

2 hours ago, yellowwindow7 said:

though on PC the modding community managed to alter the looks back to the original ps1 looks.

 

Not yet (?)

[Wavergray]

9 hours ago, AndresLionheart said:

If they get to be oversensitive about little things like that, then we also get to do it.

What does that actually accomplish besides two small groups yelling and screaming into their echo chambers over nothing? Most people who play games don't care either way and will buy/play the games being cried over regardless of both groups. 

[Elvick_]

8 hours ago, Stan Lee said:

Funny thing is if you actually play the game rather than just knee-jerk react to a blog post, you find that Shiva, Edea and Ultimecia have no changes whatsoever. So yeah, the "censorship" angle here is as bullcrap as it was for Tifa in the FF7 Remake as far as I am concerned. 

So you think the changes are for artistic reasons and not censorship? lol

SE and gross incompetence aren't exactly strangers. So them attempting, and failing, to censor the game properly wouldn't really surprise me. They didn't even alter Siren's card to reflect the new "design" (which is artistically hideous btw, that feather skirt is the dumbest thing since just turning skin a color to pretend it was frabric; ala what's her face in SFV) I guess by that logic though, SFV wasn't censored since you still see a lot of fanservice even though it was obviously censored by removing victory poses, and putting Juri in a dumb spandex outfit under another dumb spandex outfit. Rather than put in effort to redesign the damn costume to make sense and not look terrible censored... I mean, "changed" by your logic.

Only SE know the reason for their changes, either way they're stupid.

On 9/3/2019 at 2:12 PM, Seraphim_Rez said:

"Breasts were offensive to women"

 

Didn't know my own body was offensive to me.

 

Now games are made by diverse people and a ton of women play games now and make up a sizable portion of the Final Fantasy fanbase. It's okay for a character to no longer be pandering to males.

Yeah, like Hyperdimension Neptunia and Bayonetta! Oh right, both character designers are women. Whoops. Hell, Sports Illustrated's stupid Me Too "Swimsuit" issue done all by women had the models naked with words on them. And being naked is certainly more sexualized than being in a bikini. But only men would ever make women sexy to "pander to males".

Edited September 8, 2019 by Elvick_

[AndresLionheart]

12 hours ago, Stan Lee said:

Funny thing is if you actually play the game rather than just knee-jerk react to a blog post, you find that Shiva, Edea and Ultimecia have no changes whatsoever. So yeah, the "censorship" angle here is as bullcrap as it was for Tifa in the FF7 Remake as far as I am concerned. 

Lol, yeah, I just started playing and I laughed at the fact that Shiva (who is pretty much just as naked in the vagina area) had no changes whatsoever. That baffles me even more. A summon like Shiva who actually does get used a bit in the beginning and it's unmissable is unchanged, but some missable one that is terrible so no one summons her gets censored. I can't really tell what the thought process here was.

[Conor]

8 hours ago, Elvick_ said:

So you think the changes are for artistic reasons and not censorship? lol

SE and gross incompetence aren't exactly strangers. So them attempting, and failing, to censor the game properly wouldn't really surprise me. They didn't even alter Siren's card to reflect the new "design" (which is artistically hideous btw, that feather skirt is the dumbest thing since just turning skin a color to pretend it was frabric; ala what's her face in SFV) I guess by that logic though, SFV wasn't censored since you still see a lot of fanservice even though it was obviously censored by removing victory poses, and putting Juri in a dumb spandex outfit under another dumb spandex outfit. Rather than put in effort to redesign the damn costume to make sense and not look terrible censored... I mean, "changed" by your logic.

 

I never played SF so I don't know anything about that, made by different companies as well so it's a bit of a stretch to assume my opinion on both of them are the exact same.

[Elvick_]

8 hours ago, AndresLionheart said:

Lol, yeah, I just started playing and I laughed at the fact that Shiva (who is pretty much just as naked in the vagina area) had no changes whatsoever. That baffles me even more. A summon like Shiva who actually does get used a bit in the beginning and it's unmissable is unchanged, but some missable one that is terrible so no one summons her gets censored. I can't really tell what the thought process here was.

Watching comparison of all three side by side, I think I "understand" the "logic", but it's still not consistent with other stuff in the game. Which doesn't mean it's not censorship. Otherwise no Senran Kagura was censored since it was still lewd without what was removed.

 

Screenshots from this vid;

 

 

Shiva has some kind of pattern, which looks like it could be underwear. Reminds me of those weird underwears in Senran Kagura where it only covers the front and back and there are no strings at all. Looks like a pad when you view the underwear itself lol, that's the best I can describe it. This pattern is seen on Shiva's bum too and it's all over her body.

While Siren's just looks like straight bush. You could maybe make the argument it is meant to look like a seashell, but... it's hard to see that given the height of the middle portion of "shell"... [god the remaster skirt looks awful... and that harpy face]

 

But even if it is bush... why does Ifrit get to sport his without some crappy horn skirt?

 

As for Rinoa, the only guess I can make is she's a main character in your party. But I have no idea why that would matter. Quitis still shows midrift, Selphie still has her short skirt/dress, Edea, etc. Doesn't make much sense to me. But, censorship n general doesn't make sense, so trying to find the logic in it is pointless. As I mentioned before, if people can agree that removing an entire mode from Senran Kagura is censorship... the game still would be offensive to people who would find the removed mode offensive. So who is it appeasing? Nobody. It just makes everyone madder. Makes fans mad because it's censorship. And it makes busybodies more mad because the game is still "sexist, blah blah blah".

I don't get the logic of "hurr you want to stare at virtual boobs and tits" (thou doth protest and project too much). To me Siren's design is very akin to what you'd find in classical art with nudity in it, or statues. Just with no actual breasts... can't think of anything with full vagina in it, usually it had pubes. Art is bad tho because reasons. Ugly half assed censored skirts are good because take that incels amirite.

[Lance_87]

WTF is wrong with Rinoa changing her face/haircut during the summons in the 2013/Remastered versions LOL? Look at 5:22, it's like she becomes another person

 

Eden isn't supposed to run at a good framerate in the 2013 version, did the author of the video switch to Original Graphics Mode? He forgot to do it with Gilgamesh though, in fact it runs at crappy speeds. That's one of the few "pros" of the Remastered (solving slowdown/lag issues)

 

EDIT: the face/haircut changing also happens to Squall

Edited September 8, 2019 by Lance_87

[Masamune]

I guess we should look at the bright side of things, at least they didn't swap out Siren's animation for the same one they use for "Devour". ?

 

Ugh... I better shut up before I give them any ideas. ?

 

4 hours ago, Elvick_ said:

Shiva has some kind of pattern, which looks like it could be underwear. Reminds me of those weird underwears in Senran Kagura where it only covers the front and back and there are no strings at all. Looks like a pad when you view the underwear itself lol, that's the best I can describe it. This pattern is seen on Shiva's bum too and it's all over her body.

While Siren's just looks like straight bush. You could maybe make the argument it is meant to look like a seashell, but... it's hard to see that given the height of the middle portion of "shell"... [god the remaster skirt looks awful... and that harpy face]

This was my theory as well why Siren was the only one they made noticeable modifications too.

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Masamune

[Lance_87]

I want to know from European, non-English speakers/players (German, Spanish, French... not Italian, as i can confirm it myself) if Selphie's weapons are called "nunchakus" in their localized versions. I keep reading this story about them being renamed to some other random word because they were illegal or something.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Lance_87

[VoidVictorious]

On 9/6/2019 at 10:45 PM, Katt said:

after reading the whole thread, I'll sum it up for those who want to keep their sanity intact:

FFVIII censorship -> censorship bad -> "wow, I didn't noticed!" -> fight -> more fight -> using kotaku as a valid source (lol) -> intense quoting action -> thread gets locked

 

I don't like censorship, but every thread it's the same thing. There is no constructive discussion, just quote after quote saying the same thing. Nuke this thread and all the ones after this. There's no point to discuss in the recent times. Maybe in a few more years.

 

Let's just play videogames.

If you need to fight with someone, do it with this piece of trash.

 

Peace.

I really liked your post. It sums up a lot of these threads including this one. I am all for discourse about censorship especially since this is one of my favorite games, but I haven’t read anything that solves the problem or even any suggestions to solve the problem. Looking at it as a whole the censorship in this game is minor. It could have been much worse.

[AJ_-_808]

10 minutes ago, VoidVictorious said:

...but I haven’t read anything that solves the problem or even any suggestions to solve the problem. Looking at it as a whole the censorship in this game is minor. It could have been much worse.

 

That depends on whether you view it as a problem or not.  How exactly would you plan solving it anyway? I think the people that are so bothered by it, to the point where they wouldn't buy the game (any censored/edited game), are an extreme minority, and their lost sales would either go unnoticed or not measure up enough to make it worthwhile to risk the potential bad press backlash.

 

I think the prevailing notion in this thread was that the artist redesigned it by choice, aka not censorship considering the other cited examples.

 

Accept the change and enjoy the game, or dont.

[VoidVictorious]

3 minutes ago, AJ_-_808 said:

 

That depends on whether you view it as a problem or not.  How exactly would you plan solving it anyway? I think the people that are so bothered by it, to the point where they wouldn't buy the game (any censored/edited game), are an extreme minority, and their lost sales would either go unnoticed or not measure up enough to make it worthwhile to risk the potential bad press backlash.

 

I think the prevailing notion in this thread was that the artist redesigned it by choice, aka not censorship considering the other cited examples.

 

Accept the change and enjoy the game, or dont.

I think you misread my post. I am on your side completely. I could care less about the small artistic changes they made. I am just confused as to why these threads pop up every few days and their purpose. We cannot force change, so I don’t understand why people get so fired up about a crotch being covered up in a phenomenal game.

[AJ_-_808]

Just now, VoidVictorious said:

I think you misread my post. I am on your side completely. I could care less about the small artistic changes they made. I am just confused as to why these threads pop up every few days and their purpose. We cannot force change, so I don’t understand why people get so fired up about a crotch being covered up in a phenomenal game.

I was mainly pointing out that there's no discussion to solve it because it isnt a real problem.

 

It's mainly a relatively small group of people (that likely would never play any of these games) calling for things to be changed vs another relatively small group of people going off about the government taking their rights and snowball censoring.  The rest of us are caught in the middle 

[VoidVictorious]

1 minute ago, AJ_-_808 said:

I was mainly pointing out that there's no discussion to solve it because it isnt a real problem.

 

It's mainly a relatively small group of people (that likely would never play any of these games) calling for things to be changed vs another relatively small group of people going off about the government taking their rights and snowball censoring.  The rest of us are caught in the middle 

You are correct it’s not a problem. I have seen the “slippery slope” argument used all the time. Covering a summon’s crotch is not going to lead to book burning. 

 

People that really want to make an impact should just not buy the game (small impact). Those that are upset should try the laugh test. If you voice your concern to a person face to face about a fictional creature’s crotch being covered, and you laugh, it isn’t a big deal.

[Cobby]

Oh no.. They covered up her animated vag a bit more.. What ever will we do? How will I ever live with myself? I can't carry on like this. 

 

FUCKKK!!!!

 

Suppose I gotta go visit fucking PornHub or something now like everyone else.. Fuck sake..

[Lance_87]

Is this true? (from Final Fantasy Wiki)

 

Quote

Siren has a feathered sarong in Final Fantasy VIII Remastered. The change is likely due to CERO regulations, as the Remastered could not use the old rating granted for the Ultimate Hits version back when the ratings board was first established. As depictions of nudity (e.g. expression of genitals and parts thereof) have become banned as part of the board's code of ethics, Siren's nudity needed to be toned down.

 

So i guess everyone in the web is a poor functional illiterate?

Edited September 8, 2019 by Lance_87

[VoidVictorious]

45 minutes ago, Cobby said:

Oh no.. They covered up her animated vag a bit more.. What ever will we do? How will I ever live with myself? I can't carry on like this. 

 

FUCKKK!!!!

 

Suppose I gotta go visit fucking PornHub or something now like everyone else.. Fuck sake..

I know that with strength and effort you and I can make it through Final Fantasy VIII. As Abraham Lincoln once said: “Mo Remasters Mo Problems.”

[Dauersack]

I was never into final fantasy as a series, too many games and almost no connection between them, also too much j in jrpg for my liking, yet I still got the famous Final Fantasy 7 for the ps4 at one point because I knew if I would not play this cult game soon, I would never do it, yet playing a game that has reached this status is almost a necessity, and there was no excuse because it also was dirt cheap. Played 7, liked some of it, disliked the rest, the gameplay was ok for its time, the world very detailed, the player characters mostly good, the much praised story was shit though plain and simple, overall a mixed experience with ups and downs for me. After I was done with 7, I inevitably had to ask myself whether I wanted to dive deeper into the series. I was reluctant yet avoided answering that question definitely to myself until recently. Now is the perfect time for it, FF7 remake is around the corner, FF8 will get a remake too at some point, 9 will probably too, old 8 and old 9 are easily available as remasters on PS4 as well. Nothing is stopping me from getting the remasters and later the remakes, yet I won't do it.

 

But why have I decided to be adamant about not touching this series again? Because of shit like this here. Censoring and changing things in the remaster of a game several decades old? Remakes that will be snipped into several fragments and released as several smaller games at a time instead of all at once so they could milk more money out of the players? Debates and trench fights over characters being changed for the sake of appeasement towards a mentally insane and perpetually triggered fraction of a minority? Hell no, miss me with all that shit, terrible practices through and through. It is not even about what exactly is censored or changed for some shitty agenda, it is a matter of principle plain and simple. Any developer who does that to his games can kiss me where my cheeks meet, because I am not about to support that kind of behavior, I won't give Sony the green light to keep doing this shit with more and more games either, you mangle the product I won't be buying it. Anyone dismissing this kind of thing because he thinks it is only minor details or he does not care about things like character design in the first place shoukd realize one thing, that this is how it usually starts. Censoring shit always starts out minor and gets progessively worse the longer there is no backlash, and in a few years we might be back in the days of green and blue blood, forcefully changed stories to make them more PG, and character designs having actual inherent limitations.

[AJ_-_808]

2 hours ago, Lance_87 said:

Is this true? (from Final Fantasy Wiki)

 

 

So i guess everyone in the web is a poor functional illiterate?

 

Wiki isnt necessarily the definitive answer.  Also, that wiki quote says "likely due to", meaning whoever wrote that is just taking a guess.  If it had something to do with a ratings board, then how did the other previously cited examples (Shiva, ifrit, etc) not get covered up?

 

I think somewhere earlier in this thread was a quote from the artist saying it was a redesign to better match their vision.

 

 

[TerminusCross]

Well at least the game is playable. Doesn't need a patch. I hate it when a game's heated discussion mostly revolves around how programmers suck and such. Here, we even get to talk about Sakura's panties, hadoken yo!

[Elvick_]

7 hours ago, VoidVictorious said:

I really liked your post. It sums up a lot of these threads including this one. I am all for discourse about censorship especially since this is one of my favorite games, but I haven’t read anything that solves the problem or even any suggestions to solve the problem. Looking at it as a whole the censorship in this game is minor. It could have been much worse.

Accepting a little is what makes it worse... lol.

And what do you think a solution is? We can't do anything about it. As far as I know, nobody here works at Square Enix to change their internal structure and decisions to be less dumb. "Wow, people on the internet have discussions about things that don't solve the problem! What a shock!" Well, yeah. That's what the internet is for. Discussion. We can't do anything about it. Unless you're suggesting we storm their HQ, hop on the computers and program the fixes we want in the game while fending off the police. Which is dumb. The only other alternative is what people don't want to have to resort to, waiting for modders to fix the games for them. The company should be doing it right the first time so we feel good about supporting them.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Elvick_